Speaking of Epiphany, can someone tell me where this tradition comes from?

[Janna]

Or can you point me to the discussion already had on this board? I tried to do a search but I didn't see a discussion on it.

 

Anyway, I was wondering where the 12 days of Christmas comes from, and more specifically, why it's thought that the Wise Men didn't make it to the manger until 12 days later - why it's thought that Mary and Joseph were even *in* the stable for that many days. Is this a Catholic only thing?

 

Just curious.

[Melinda in VT]

Well, the Wise Men appear in Matthew's account, which never mentions a stable. The NIV says "On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary"

[Parrothead]

Checki here; http://www.cresourcei.org/cyepiph.html

[seanda]

I can't answer all your questions. The tradition is an early one and seems to have been rooted in the Eastern churches and is well established in the Orthodox and Eastern churches. Many dates are tradition including Christmas are just that traditions... with knowledge of how the date was settled unclear. Documentation of the feast of Epiphany go back to the year 361 AD. Many churches around the world celebrate Epiphany, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopalian, Lutheran, etc.

 

These sites have some info.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/news/2004/dec24.html?start=1

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/holidays/epiphany.htm

[Matryoshka]

I am certainly no authority, but that book I mentioned in the other thread has a great section on the history of Epiphany, sadly much too long to post in its entirety.

 

Here are some interesting tidbits:

 

"The festival of Epiphany is one of the oldest Christian festivals, older even than Christmas... In early Christian thinking this was related to the description in the Gospels of the baptism of Jesus by John"

 

"There was a great deal of controversy among the early churches over the question of the real birth of Jesus Christ: was it to be the physical birth in Bethlehem or the Divine Manifestation arising from the waters of the Jordan [his baptism]... many held that the two births should be celebrated together... These difficulties were resolved in 380 AD when the Epiphany celebration became solely a commemoration of the Nativity and the festival of the Baptism was supressed. Soon afterwards Christmas was fixed on Dec. 25th in the Western Church, and by the 5th century, Epiphany was confined by the Roman liturgical year to the visit of the Magi, when Jesus was "manifested" for the first time to people who were not Jews."

 

"Epiphany was a festival of the Baptism and Divine Birth is still celebrated in some Eastern churches, but in the West is more commonly known as Three Kings' Day, and in England the even of Jan. 6th is known as Twelfth Night, a name sometimes carried over to the day itself. By tradition all Christmas decorations should be removed on this Night."

 

In most Spanish-speaking countries, Jan 6th is when gifts are exchanged - the Wise Men bring the gifts.

[Ellie]

Or can you point me to the discussion already had on this board? I tried to do a search but I didn't see a discussion on it.

 

Anyway, I was wondering where the 12 days of Christmas comes from, and more specifically, why it's thought that the Wise Men didn't make it to the manger until 12 days later - why it's thought that Mary and Joseph were even *in* the stable for that many days. Is this a Catholic only thing?

 

Just curious.

Not just Catholic; the other liturgical churches (e.g., Episcopal, Lutheran) also celebrate Epiphany.

 

Scripturally, it was much longer than 12 days before the wise men arrived. Remember that Herod ordered baby boys two years old and under to be murdered. Also, Scripture says that the wise men came into *the house* where the *Child*--not baby--and His mother were (Matthew 2:11).

 

Scripture doesn't specifically say "stable," although since it does say "manger" we assume a stable. The shepherds saw the *baby* as He lay in the manger (Luke 2:12, 16).

 

It's a charming tradition, not unlike celebrating Jesus's birth on December 25, but as far as I can tell, it was upwards of a couple of years before the Magi actually made it to see Bethlehem.

[Karen sn]

I thought it was shepherds at the birth.

Wise men when he was a toddler.

[mcconnellboys]

Yes, some accounts state that Jesus was a "toddler" when the wise men visited.