Jump to content

Menu

Latin Advice Please?(crosspost)


ncmomof3
 Share

Recommended Posts

I am mostly a lurker here with an occasional venture forth with a question. I am needing some wisdom on what to do next in Latin. My dd ages 11 and 13 are finishing LC II this year and I am not sure what to do next. When I looked at Henle, it seemed a bit dry to me. I am considering doing Ecce Romani for a couple of years, and then moving on to a high school text such as Cambridge or Wheelocks. I also thought about using So You Really Want to Learn Latin either after Ecce or instead of it, but I'm unsure of its difficulty level. I intend to continue Latin through High School, so we have plenty of time. I also want a good emphasis on grammar and translation. Obviously, I have no clue how to proceed and would appreciate any advice or critiques. Thanks so much!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's from Galore Park, which also publishes So You Really Want to Learn Latin, but it's more accessible for less experienced teachers, I think.

 

As a middle to high school course, you would want to start with book 1 (moving through it faster if you have covered some of the material), then do LP books 2 and 3, ending up with So You Really Want To Learn Latin 3. At that point, you will be ready to tackle original texts.

 

You have the option of taking it at a fairly leisurely pace (studying around two hours a week) and doing the whole course over around 3 1/2 years, or studying about four hours a week and doing it in two years. As your younger is only eleven, I wouldn't rush it....

 

This is a review I wrote of Latin Prep:

 

"Calvin has finished LP 2 and is on the first chapter of LP 3. This is a

rigorous, secular, grammar-based programme designed for pupils aged 11

to 13/14. It introduces grammar and vocabulary systematically and

provides lots of practice in translating sentences Latin/English and

English/Latin. Each chapter also includes longer passages for

comprehension, translation and grammar work. The passages usually

concern Greek Myth or Roman history.

 

The layout of the book is enlivened by cartoons. The text is written

to the child, with some appropriate humour mixed in. One is sometimes

asked to translate ludicrous sentences, which Calvin particularly

enjoys: 'Master, the friends of the poet are murdering the inhabitants

with books' is one of his favourites from book 1. Absurd sentences are

of course harder to translate, as you can't guess them. There is a

word list at the back of each book and a pronunciation guide at the

front of book 1.

 

Calvin and I do a lot of work orally - this is quicker and makes for a

nice snuggle time. We spend about 90 minutes a week, including

memorisation, and get through just under a book a year.

 

Pros: logical and fun, with review integrated into the exercises.

 

Cons: the noun cases are presented in UK/Commonwealth order, rather

than US order. This can be solved by having the student write out the

nouns in your chosen way as part of the memorisation process. Very

occasionally there will be a grammar point that could do with an extra

sentence of explanation. This is a rare occurrence and not something

to worry about.

 

Recommendation: an excellent programme with few flaws. I recommend it

highly for eager students aged nine and up, and most students from age

eleven."

 

http://www.galorepark.co.uk/product/home_schoolers/127/latin-prep-book-1.html

 

The books are available in the US from http://www.horriblebooks.com (Ray may have some on hand - otherwise he orders periodically in batches) or direct from the UK with free shipping from http://www.bookdepository.co.uk. I've used BD several times; service has always been excellent and very swift.

 

Laura

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We will finish LCII also this year. Next year, I plan to start Wheelock's Latin with my 6th & 7th graders. Here is our schedule through high school:

 

7th--Wheelock's IA: Chapters 1-10

8th--Wheelock's IB: Chapters 11-20

9th--Wheelock's II: Chapters 21-40

10th--Wheelock's III: Latin Reader

11th--AP Latin: Vergil

12th--AP Latin: Poetry

 

I've gone through the first 6 chapters of Wheelock's. There's a lot of on-line helps and supplemental resources. It's a great fit for us, but there are many Latin choices out there. HTH!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll second Laura's recommendation for Latin Prep. I'm using it with a group of students age 8-13 this year, and I just love it. (I would not typically recommend LP for students under age 10 -- but there are exceptions.) Some of my students are totally new to Latin and some have had previous instruction (1-2 years of Minimus and/or Latina Christiana), and all are learning and doing well with Latin Prep. It has a *fabulous* balance of clear, concise grammar instruction and lots of translation and practice. The tone is very clever and a lot of fun, never talking down to students, but also very, very clear.

 

I knew I would be teaching this class for the last year or so and had spent time looking at Ecce (which I used when I was in school), Cambridge, Latin for Americans... I've used Wheelock in the past... And for this age group, I haven't seen anything that compares with Latin Prep for clarity, thoroughness, an ability to engage students' interest...

 

I can't speak highly enough of it. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Abby -

 

Would you recommend doing PL, LC I, LC II then Latin Prep? Or, skipping some of these and moving onto Latin Prep? We are ready for LCI next year in 3rd grade. Just wondering your thoughts...

 

I would not recommend Latin Prep for *most* 3rd graders. Unless you are sure yours could handle it (very good at language skills in general, grammar in particular), I would do a year of LCI first, or even both LCI and LCII first.

 

I have a bright 10 year old. He did LC I, and then most of LfC A, in 3rd grade. I started him on LP in 4th grade. It is pretty much the perfect level for him, but we do have to slow down from time to time to go over grammar concepts, and to do more practice.

 

But I think Abbey said she's teaching LP to an 8 year old, so it's really variable and dependent on your child.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Abby -

Would you recommend doing PL, LC I, LC II then Latin Prep? Or, skipping some of these and moving onto Latin Prep? We are ready for LCI next year in 3rd grade. Just wondering your thoughts...

 

Well, as I said above, I would *not* typically recommend Latin Prep for students under age 10. The 8 and 9 year olds I have in my class would all be considered academically "gifted" and they have all had at least a year of an elementary Latin program before coming in. They are doing very well, but they are exceptional and well-prepared students (and doing better than a couple of the "older" students who had never studied English grammar formally, etc).

 

I think you would be wise to spend 3rd grade doing another program -- LC is a good one, and I've heard lots of wonderful things about Lively Latin for instance (I teach Minimus in my elementary classes at the same place where I teach Latin Prep, but I definitely spend more time on the grammar than is explicit in the Minimus texts) -- and then at 4th grade you could go either way, depending on what makes sense for your family.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What made you decide to do Latin Prep I-III, then go to So You Really III? Is there some overlap?

 

Latin Prep and SY Latin cover similar material for different age groups - both start from zero knowledge. The publisher recommends going to the last book of the SY course after finishing Latin Prep and before diving into classical texts.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Abby -

 

Would you recommend doing PL, LC I, LC II then Latin Prep? Or, skipping some of these and moving onto Latin Prep? We are ready for LCI next year in 3rd grade. Just wondering your thoughts...

 

It's good for most fifth graders, fine for a lot of 4th graders, but it will be a rare 3rd grader who will be ready for it. My Hobbes is in second - he's a very bright kid who badgered me into teaching him Greek this year, but I won't be using Latin Prep with him next year. We'll continue with gentle Greek, or spend a year or two playing with Minimus, then start Latin Prep in 4th or 5th grade (depending on his development).

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you sum it up by saying that if the child is in 4th grade math, he or she can probably handle Latin Prep? Or maybe even have completed 4th grade math?

 

A formula is always great :)

 

Kimberly

 

Quite soon in the first book, a child is going to have to handle the cases, persons and tenses of each word in a sentence, holding it all in his/her head at the same time, and making overall sense of it. I've seen Calvin involuntarily scrunch up his little face into lines as he honestly puts all his capacity into fitting all the pieces together.

 

It's only partly intellectual capacity - another part is stamina and maturity. No neat formula, I'm afraid.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you sum it up by saying that if the child is in 4th grade math, he or she can probably handle Latin Prep? Or maybe even have completed 4th grade math?

 

A formula is always great :)

 

 

No, lol. Sorry. I realize that that would be helpful. :)

 

In thinking of the 8 and 9 year-olds doing my Latin Prep class, all of them are doing at least 5th or 6th grade math (though with several different curricula, so it's not always comparable). As I said, these are particularly academically apt students. But then, I don't think math is necessarily a good predictor anyway...

 

To do Latin Prep, students need to be strong readers and writers of English. They need to be willing to work slowly through logic puzzle after logic puzzle and have the patience not to guess at answers because they think they might know it -- they're almost inevitably wrong. They need to be ready to devote a couple of hours a week at least to Latin, and for the long haul. They need to be somewhat self-directed and able to take criticism. They need to have some background in English grammar (nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, prepositions, direct objects, indirect objects, objects of the preposition, etc)... And they need to have the patience to memorize things that aren't always exciting, and the ability to access and rearrange that material in their heads.

 

*Typically* I would say that Latin Prep is a good program for grades 5-8. For a slightly younger child who has already studied some Latin or is very motivated and a strong student, it can also work well...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks to both of you and everyone else on this thread, especially the person who started it all. :)

 

For us, I keep coming to the realization that I need to separate my kids in Latin. My dd will do well with Latin Prep, my son just doesn't have the skills y'all mention. And he doesn't have the patience as well. I think Lively Latin will serve him well. I just have to plan our year better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

For us, I keep coming to the realization that I need to separate my kids in Latin.

 

I always wanted to combine my boys for a lot of things and now the only subjects we do together are casual Chinese (board games in Chinese, etc.), art history, memorisation (they memorise different poems in theory, but we all work together) and PE.

 

There's a 3 1/2 year age gap and an enormous personality gap. Combining just didn't work for us.

 

Laura

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...