How to teach both a 4.5 year old and 3 year old??? Curriculum ideas for active 3 yo?

[MitchellMom]

I know you probably aren't going to agree, but I think you need to just stop too.

 

I read this study about two kindergardens. To loosely sum it up--In one the kids did phonics, in the other they had experiences- field trips, painting, cooking, museums. Even several years later, the "experinces" group read better and had much better comprehension scores. At this age what thier brain needs to be a better reader is to experience more of this world- NOT worksheets.

 

3 and 4 year olds really learn better doing things. Just because they can do the workbooks, doesn't mean they should. And though you say in this thread that she loves workbooks, in others you have talked about how she doesn't work hard, and you both get frustrated, ect.

 

If you really feel like you have to keep going through your curriculums then why don't you do it without your kids ever seeing the books.

 

So for math look over today's lesson, and then find a way you can teach it with both of them. Jumping down the side walk to add, or throwing snowballs, or eating pretzals, if it is apples divided- divide a real apple and see what you find.

 

Do the same for Language arts. Write in the snow or the sidewalk. Make sticks or draw in the dirt.

 

Then for the times she wants to do workbooks, get a pile that you don't care how she does- mazes, adding, whatever, but cheap ones that she can do for fun, and you aren't worried about. And let her do those when ever she wants, how ever she wants- even let ds if he wants to.

 

The 3yo won't be a problem, the 4yo won't be stressed, you'll feel like school was done. And some day when she is 8 or 10 or 16 and some part of school work really needs to be done this semester, she will have these first few years of school as a really fun thing ingrained into her.

 

Hmm. Maybe I did not word it correctly in my other thread, if it came across as my saying she doesn't work hard. She does work hard. It's a matter of getting her started - and one day she could not remember all of the steps in a math problem, and I was getting frustrated with her. (Apple on worksheet divided in half, draw seeds on each side, write the number of seeds beneath each side, then add them and write the total. She was just writing the total and forgetting to write the seeds beneath each side. Silly of me to get so worked up over it, I now know, but back then I was so terrified that she would need to know how to do this on the state test and would forget and fail and then the state would make me send her to public schools! :tongue_smilie:) Anyway, she did not give up and she kept on and on doing it. She is not lazy and she is a hard worker; my question in the other thread was how hardI should push her to keep trying something until she gets it perfect - or if I should let it go and come back to it later. Does this make sense? Again, she is not lazy. :)

 

One hard thing about waiting is this: I do not want her to be around other 4.5 year olds who know more than she - not because I am vain, though, but because of fairness. The way I see it is, if other 4.5 year olds are learning things, then why shouldn't she get to? Just because she has a younger brother, she should not learn? That does not seem right.

 

I hope I've clarified myself with regards to my earlier thread....

 

 

OK, I just checked my other thread and saw where I wrote, "She just doesn't want to work hard sometimes, which irritates me."

 

LOL. So I did say that!

 

I remember now what happened: It was the day with the apples. She kept forgetting to write the numbers in the correct place and I kept making new apple problems for her, trying to get her to do it "right" at least three times in a row. She groaned and put her pencil down. That's why I said she did not want to work hard.

 

I feel a thousand times smarter now. I should have placed the papers on my desk and said, "Let's go play!" Why didn't I?!?! :banghead: ......... :sad:

[Haiku]

My daughter likes to do workbooks. She asks to do them!

 

My daughter loved to do workbooks, too. She started doing them when she was three. I let her do them whenever and however she wanted. I did not make it school.

 

But what if she never learns how to write the date?

Seriously? You're actually worried that your daughter will never learn to write the date because she doesn't want to be forced to do it at age four?

 

Also, her math is now saying she needs to memorize 2+2=4, 3+3=6, 4+4=8.... and she is not interested. I can't blame her here, either!

I don't blame her either. This is not developmentally appropriate for a four year old.

 

I thought about not forcing her to learn these facts.

Well there you go. You have your answer.

 

Then I thought, She will be behind if she doesn't! :confused:

She will not be behind. My six year olds are learning this now. They are not behind. You've gotten a lot of advice from experienced moms to relax and that your expectations for your daughter are, in some respects, unrealistic.

 

Tara

Edited December 26, 2008 by TaraTheLiberator

[Haiku]

The way I see it is, if other 4.5 year olds are learning things, then why shouldn't she get to?

 

But no two four year olds know exactly the same things, so which other four year olds are you going to choose to try to keep up with?

 

You seem to put a lot of stock in "book learning" as the only type of learning and not recognize that your daughter will learn vast amounts just from living life. I didn't do any kindergarten with my daughter. She started homeschooling this year in first grade. She reads independently, is learning to add hundreds, and can tell you in detail what makes a mammal a mammal and what makes an insect an insect.

 

She also has a huge, amazing, massive store of knowledge that I never taught her. She learned just fine without me managing what she needed to learn and trying to teach her things that frustrated her when she was four.

 

Tara

[dirty ethel rackham]

I don't think anyone is saying stop the learning, but stop the madness of trying to force a curriculum appropriate for a first grader down to a 4.5 yo and thus creating the strife with the younger child as well. There are many ways to learn something and it does not have to be done sitting in a chair or with pencil in hand. Where are preschoolers learning their math facts and how to write the date?

 

Learning at this age should not be a fight, it should be a joy. While you oldest may be capable of the seatwork, it is not educationally appropriate. You can make this time a struggle with both of the children or you can make it a joyful, exciting time, rich with learning opportunities. One method will lead to burnout, while the other will lead to a life-long love of learning.

[MitchellMom]

But no two four year olds know exactly the same things, so which other four year olds are you going to choose to try to keep up with?

 

You seem to put a lot of stock in "book learning" as the only type of learning and not recognize that your daughter will learn vast amounts just from living life. I didn't do any kindergarten with my daughter. She started homeschooling this year in first grade. She reads independently, is learning to add hundreds, and can tell you in detail what makes a mammal a mammal and what makes an insect an insect.

 

She also has a huge, amazing, massive store of knowledge that I never taught her. She learned just fine without me managing what she needed to learn and trying to teach her things that frustrated her when she was four.

 

Tara

 

 

Ugh ... I NEVER wanted to put a lot of stock in book-learning! Yech! Is that what I've turned into?!?! :tongue_smilie:

[Mallory]

Ugh ... I NEVER wanted to put a lot of stock in book-learning! Yech! Is that what I've turned into?!?! :tongue_smilie:

 

 

Ummm.... Yes.

[Lovedtodeath]

Ugh ... I NEVER wanted to put a lot of stock in book-learning! Yech! Is that what I've turned into?!?! :tongue_smilie:

 

You know, the friend that told you about the cousin that didn't pass the test had no business telling you that, and you have no business worrying about it.:grouphug: Technically, you aren't really required to start school at all until a child is 7 or 8. So you are way ahead, my friend. Now stop worrying and have fun like you said you will do!

 

And don't forget to send me your materials so that I can use them with my 6 year old. :D

Edited December 28, 2008 by Lovedtodeath

[MitchellMom]

You know, the friend that told you about the cousin that didn't pass the test had no business telling you that, and you have no business worrying about it.:grouphug: Technically, you aren't really required to start school at all until a child is 7 or 8. So you are way ahead, my friend. Now stop worrying and have fun like you said you will do!

 

And don't forget to send me your materials so that I can use them with my 6 year old. :D

 

LOL! You hit the nail on the head: You remembered the main source of my paranoia - though it was my husband's cousin who told me this. I eventually did write her back asking her about it again. She said the kindergarten-age children knew all of their letters yet failed the test required by the state for kindergarten students, so the mother had to put them in public school. *This* is what terrified me. My daughter knows her letters, but she still would be at risk for failing NC's K test? Makes no sense. Yet my husband's cousin was adament that this is what happened.

 

I'm glad you remembered that this particular event is what sparked my manic episode! :tongue_smilie:

 

If you want the Saxon Math 1 it is yours!!! ;)

[Penelope]

 

If you really feel like you have to keep going through your curriculums then why don't you do it without your kids ever seeing the books.

 

So for math look over today's lesson, and then find a way you can teach it with both of them. Jumping down the side walk to add, or throwing snowballs, or eating pretzals, if it is apples divided- divide a real apple and see what you find.

 

Do the same for Language arts. Write in the snow or the sidewalk. Make sticks or draw in the dirt.

 

Then for the times she wants to do workbooks, get a pile that you don't care how she does- mazes, adding, whatever, but cheap ones that she can do for fun, and you aren't worried about. And let her do those when ever she wants, how ever she wants- even let ds if he wants to.

 

 

Nodding enthusiastically here. This is how I did kindergarten for my very active, workbook-allergic son. :tongue_smilie: At 3 and 4, he played and learned his numbers and letter sounds and lots of other things without any sort of curriculum. I don't think it is bad to teach them things, but there must be a way to do it without tears and frustration at preschool ages. It will be okay if she doesn't write the date ever again until first grade. Really.

[coffeefreak]

LOL! You hit the nail on the head: You remembered the main source of my paranoia - though it was my husband's cousin who told me this. I eventually did write her back asking her about it again. She said the kindergarten-age children knew all of their letters yet failed the test required by the state for kindergarten students, so the mother had to put them in public school. *This* is what terrified me. My daughter knows her letters, but she still would be at risk for failing NC's K test? Makes no sense. Yet my husband's cousin was adament that this is what happened.

 

I'm glad you remembered that this particular event is what sparked my manic episode! :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

Do you have a homeschool group you can join for support? Not a co-op, but each state usually has a state-wide group that can offer information on laws, people to call for help (ie. local homeschool groups for Moms just starting out). This would probably help you. I joined one and the wealth of information and the life long friends I've made have been invaluable. I love these boards for the wealth of ideas. But when it comes to local friends and help, there's no comparison. I know others will disagree with me, but I think every Mom really benefits from having that friend who's gone before her and/or is in her shoes. One that you can pick up the phone and call when you're having moments of doubt, discouragement, or elation. Of course, I still didn't listen to everything my friends said:lol: but I learned my lesson!

 

Blessings!

[mom31257]

Could you please explain the games a little more? They sound fun! :) Thanks!

 

My suggestions were just things I came up with on my own. What I meant about cards was to make a set of 3 for every doubles you want her to memorize:

3 cards: 1, 1, and 2 for 1+1=2

3 cards: 2, 2, and 4 for 2+2=4

3 cards: 3, 3, and 6 for 3+3=6

etc.

I was suggesting something like concentration. Instead of trying to match 2 pairs, you turn over 3 at a time to try and make the equation. If you turned over a 1 and a 1 and a 2, then you get to keep that set because it adds up correctly. Does that make sense?

 

When I suggested hiding the cards, I meant the same cards and see how many she can find, then make the sets that go together and see how many sets she found.

 

With the dice, my son learned a lot of adding sums just by us playing board games that involved dice. He LOVES board games and plays many well beyond his years and we just help with any reading he can't do.

 

You could just take a pair of dice and take turns rolling. Have her add up the roll (even if she has to count) of both dice together (ex. 3 and 4 make 7) and you keep score for both of you. You can determine a preset number to reach and the first on there wins. You could even double the score when you roll doubles since that is what she's focusing on learning right now.

 

Games always make learning fun. I do believe there is a time for place for more traditional school work, and don't feel bad for wanting her to do some. Just find the kind of school work that you both can live with.

[Lovedtodeath]

For a visual learner, even putting the whole equation 1+1=2 on two cards and trying to match those will work to cement it in their minds. In fact, I think I am going to do that!!

[islandmama]

I don't think anyone is saying stop the learning, but stop the madness of trying to force a curriculum appropriate for a first grader down to a 4.5 yo and thus creating the strife with the younger child as well. There are many ways to learn something and it does not have to be done sitting in a chair or with pencil in hand. Where are preschoolers learning their math facts and how to write the date?

 

Learning at this age should not be a fight, it should be a joy. While you oldest may be capable of the seatwork, it is not educationally appropriate. You can make this time a struggle with both of the children or you can make it a joyful, exciting time, rich with learning opportunities. One method will lead to burnout, while the other will lead to a life-long love of learning.

 

 

:iagree:

 

If you are all ready getting frustrated, I would see that as a red flag. Honestly, a 4.5 yo shouldn't need to know how to write the date, or be able to do a 2 step addition problem as you mentioned. Maybe you should listen to the experienced moms with older dc who have been there, done that... There will be many years later down the line where you will become frustrated with your child (like the pre-teen/teen years). Your expectations sound a bit unrealistic. Why not just stop and have fun... Just because you don't sit down and do formal curriculum does not mean they are not learning. As far as curriculum for a 3 yo, I say just let him play... The early years are fun and easy and shouldn't be stressful... My 3 yo dd loves to cut and paste and color...this is her "school." I don't do formal curriculum with her and she knows far more than an average 3 yo, probably be ready for kinder work next year...but again, no required seat work, just fun! I had an infant when my kids were in kinder...some weeks we were lucky if we got "school" done 3 times a week. I'm happy to report all are doing well, if not above grade level work. Your dd sounds very bright. I'm sure she would be fine if you "stop." And I believe the moms mean stop with the formal curriculum, but not the learning... Make sense?

 

(ETA: Every family has their own style of homeschooling...some may be more relaxed or formal than others, both with the same academic result in the end. Please take this as advice only, but ultimately you will have to decide what you think is best for your dd, despite the best advice of others. I hope you find what works and that you feel great about your decision!)

Edited December 28, 2008 by islandmama
added text

[Lovedtodeath]

Relaxed Style with Classical/CM flavor

 

I love that description! I think I would call me "Relaxed Classical with a WinterPromise/FIAR Flavor". I might just do that. I haven't seen a better description. :)

[MitchellMom]

Do you have a homeschool group you can join for support? Not a co-op, but each state usually has a state-wide group that can offer information on laws, people to call for help (ie. local homeschool groups for Moms just starting out). This would probably help you. I joined one and the wealth of information and the life long friends I've made have been invaluable. I love these boards for the wealth of ideas. But when it comes to local friends and help, there's no comparison. I know others will disagree with me, but I think every Mom really benefits from having that friend who's gone before her and/or is in her shoes. One that you can pick up the phone and call when you're having moments of doubt, discouragement, or elation. Of course, I still didn't listen to everything my friends said:lol: but I learned my lesson!

 

Blessings!

 

I will look into this - having a network of moms who know much more than I about the state of NC would help me in countless ways, I'm sure!

 

My suggestions were just things I came up with on my own. What I meant about cards was to make a set of 3 for every doubles you want her to memorize:

3 cards: 1, 1, and 2 for 1+1=2

3 cards: 2, 2, and 4 for 2+2=4

3 cards: 3, 3, and 6 for 3+3=6

etc.

I was suggesting something like concentration. Instead of trying to match 2 pairs, you turn over 3 at a time to try and make the equation. If you turned over a 1 and a 1 and a 2, then you get to keep that set because it adds up correctly. Does that make sense?

 

When I suggested hiding the cards, I meant the same cards and see how many she can find, then make the sets that go together and see how many sets she found.

 

With the dice, my son learned a lot of adding sums just by us playing board games that involved dice. He LOVES board games and plays many well beyond his years and we just help with any reading he can't do.

 

You could just take a pair of dice and take turns rolling. Have her add up the roll (even if she has to count) of both dice together (ex. 3 and 4 make 7) and you keep score for both of you. You can determine a preset number to reach and the first on there wins. You could even double the score when you roll doubles since that is what she's focusing on learning right now.

 

Games always make learning fun. I do believe there is a time for place for more traditional school work, and don't feel bad for wanting her to do some. Just find the kind of school work that you both can live with.

 

Great suggestions - they sound like fun! I think I'm going to do more with the sidewalk chalk on our sidewalk and driveway as well. My children never realize they're learning when I write words and letters on the roads and buildings I've drawn! :)

 

:iagree:

 

If you are all ready getting frustrated, I would see that as a red flag. Honestly, a 4.5 yo shouldn't need to know how to write the date, or be able to do a 2 step addition problem as you mentioned. Maybe you should listen to the experienced moms with older dc who have been there, done that... There will be many years later down the line where you will become frustrated with your child (like the pre-teen/teen years). Your expectations sound a bit unrealistic. Why not just stop and have fun... Just because you don't sit down and do formal curriculum does not mean they are not learning. As far as curriculum for a 3 yo, I say just let him play... The early years are fun and easy and shouldn't be stressful... My 3 yo dd loves to cut and paste and color...this is her "school." I don't do formal curriculum with her and she knows far more than an average 3 yo, probably be ready for kinder work next year...but again, no required seat work, just fun! I had an infant when my kids were in kinder...some weeks we were lucky if we got "school" done 3 times a week. I'm happy to report all are doing well, if not above grade level work. Your dd sounds very bright. I'm sure she would be fine if you "stop." And I believe the moms mean stop with the formal curriculum, but not the learning... Make sense?

 

(ETA: Every family has their own style of homeschooling...some may be more relaxed or formal than others, both with the same academic result in the end. Please take this as advice only, but ultimately you will have to decide what you think is best for your dd, despite the best advice of others. I hope you find what works and that you feel great about your decision!)

 

Thank you for the encouraging advice! Definitely backing off here! I announced to my mom in front of my daughter last night that we didn't think our math was fun so we were going to stop it and start a few, fun math program as soon as it arrived in the mail. My daughter was excited about it, too; I've made it sound like fun and I vow to keep it fun and not to push!

 

My only question is: At what age do you start insisting that your child do schoolwork? Age 6?

[Penelope]

 

My only question is: At what age do you start insisting that your child do schoolwork? Age 6?

 

I can only say what I did, FWIW, and mine is only 6 now. At age 5 the only thing I insisted on was phonics and handwriting. But when he resisted, I would try to find a different way to teach the same thing (we used the OPGTR, but sometimes we stopped and used phonogram cards and played a jumping game with them, sometimes I wrote out the lesson on a piece of paper or a whiteboard instead, sometimes I made a game board and had prizes for getting to the end, etc.). For me it was important that he learned to read, as much as he was able to, that year. At different times I still had to back off for a few weeks at a time. I guess you need to decide what is most important that she learn, and find a way to do that.

 

This year at 6 he is required to do more, and he knows school is his job and that we will cover a certain amount of seatwork daily.

[MitchellMom]

I can only say what I did, FWIW, and mine is only 6 now. At age 5 the only thing I insisted on was phonics and handwriting. But when he resisted, I would try to find a different way to teach the same thing (we used the OPGTR, but sometimes we stopped and used phonogram cards and played a jumping game with them, sometimes I wrote out the lesson on a piece of paper or a whiteboard instead, sometimes I made a game board and had prizes for getting to the end, etc.). For me it was important that he learned to read, as much as he was able to, that year. At different times I still had to back off for a few weeks at a time. I guess you need to decide what is most important that she learn, and find a way to do that.

 

This year at 6 he is required to do more, and he knows school is his job and that we will cover a certain amount of seatwork daily.

 

This is good advice. I care most of all about her reading, so I suppose I should encourage EZ Lessons and ETC for at least 15 minutes a day?... I don't think that's pushing her too hard, do you? And when we get our Singpoare math, maybe insist on 5 minutes a day for that?...

 

Thanks!

[Lovedtodeath]

Well, if we are having a really bad day we still put it away. Your question will be very individual. She cannot play electronic games or have her choice of TV if she does not do her work. Mom has the liberty of cutting the work in halfs or fourths and leaving it for the next day however.

[MitchellMom]

Well, if we are having a really bad day we still put it away. Your question will be very individual. She cannot play electronic games or have her choice of TV if she does not do her work. Mom has the liberty of cutting the work in halfs or fourths and leaving it for the next day however.

 

If you do this, doesn't it make school seem like work? In other words, she will see school as being something she must suffer through to get what she wants, right?... :confused:

[Lovedtodeath]

She already thought that school was work. She really enjoys geography, and science. FLL and reading are fun, easy work. All the rest is just work. I'd rather have a consequence for fighting me and wasting all my time.

[coffeefreak]

My only question is: At what age do you start insisting that your child do schoolwork? Age 6?

 

I think that's a tricky question. It depends on the child and your goals as a family.

 

Since this is my youngest's kindergarten year (she turned 6 in November) our major goal is to learn to read. Our secondary goals are forming letters and numbers, and basic math skills. This is the first year I've required her to do anything. The only thing I require her to do is sit and read with me every day. We do other things because she wants to. If she didn't want to read to me, I would read to her for a day or two, and then start up again.

 

We were using Phonics Pathways and she announced one day that it was boring and she liked the "blue" book better (A Beka's Handbook for Reading), so, I switched. She's been happy as a clam ever since. Then, when she asked for worksheets like her big sis, I gave her Explode the Code (I had it on hand). She worked through half of book one, but, because she can't write yet, she was frustrated at not doing half the pages. I then bought her A Beka's Letter's and Numbers for K5. She LOVES that. It's bright and colorful, and she doesn't have to write letters in it yet. If she balks at doing a workbook page, I say OK, then let's read some more. She likes playing number games and doing calendar activities, but she doesn't really want to work in a workbook or learn to formally add yet. I don't mind, there's plenty of time to learn to add and subtract. I don't worry about what other Kindergarteners or 6 year olds are doing, I just focus on my dd and what our goals are this year - learning to read.

 

Next year, I'll require more. I'll require reading, writing, and math (I'm just not sure how it will look). :D

 

For my third grader, I require A LOT more. Quite frankly, she has to do everything I put in front of her, with a glad heart. And, after the first of the year, she'll be taking on more responsibility for her time management. I'm going to assign things that are "due" the next day, and start teaching her some planning skills.

 

One of the biggest lessons I've learned about homeschooling my kids is, never be afraid to change. Every Curriculum is GREAT!!! There are thousands out there, and NONE of them are duds. But, the questions is, which one will work for you AND your child? Some worked for me, some worked for her, but only a couple worked for both of us. I've been through A LOT of them (ask my husband:lol:), but it was worth it because now I know what works for my oldest, and I can be more laid back with my youngest.

 

Sorry, this got a little long! I think it's great you're looking for advice here. These ladies are a Wealth of information. Be sure to read, The Well Trained Mind if you haven't. I re-read it every semester to form my goals and thoughts. It's invaluable to you as a homeschooler!

 

Blessings to you!

[MitchellMom]

She already thought that school was work. She really enjoys geography, and science. FLL and reading are fun, easy work. All the rest is just work. I'd rather have a consequence for fighting me and wasting all my time.

 

My daughter loves geography too!!! Do you use any type of book? We just have maps and atlases lying around. She sits up in bed some nights so she can "read" the atlas! :D

 

I think that's a tricky question. It depends on the child and your goals as a family.

 

Since this is my youngest's kindergarten year (she turned 6 in November) our major goal is to learn to read. Our secondary goals are forming letters and numbers, and basic math skills. This is the first year I've required her to do anything. The only thing I require her to do is sit and read with me every day. We do other things because she wants to. If she didn't want to read to me, I would read to her for a day or two, and then start up again.

 

We were using Phonics Pathways and she announced one day that it was boring and she liked the "blue" book better (A Beka's Handbook for Reading), so, I switched. She's been happy as a clam ever since. Then, when she asked for worksheets like her big sis, I gave her Explode the Code (I had it on hand). She worked through half of book one, but, because she can't write yet, she was frustrated at not doing half the pages. I then bought her A Beka's Letter's and Numbers for K5. She LOVES that. It's bright and colorful, and she doesn't have to write letters in it yet. If she balks at doing a workbook page, I say OK, then let's read some more. She likes playing number games and doing calendar activities, but she doesn't really want to work in a workbook or learn to formally add yet. I don't mind, there's plenty of time to learn to add and subtract. I don't worry about what other Kindergarteners or 6 year olds are doing, I just focus on my dd and what our goals are this year - learning to read.

 

Next year, I'll require more. I'll require reading, writing, and math (I'm just not sure how it will look). :D

 

For my third grader, I require A LOT more. Quite frankly, she has to do everything I put in front of her, with a glad heart. And, after the first of the year, she'll be taking on more responsibility for her time management. I'm going to assign things that are "due" the next day, and start teaching her some planning skills.

 

One of the biggest lessons I've learned about homeschooling my kids is, never be afraid to change. Every Curriculum is GREAT!!! There are thousands out there, and NONE of them are duds. But, the questions is, which one will work for you AND your child? Some worked for me, some worked for her, but only a couple worked for both of us. I've been through A LOT of them (ask my husband:lol:), but it was worth it because now I know what works for my oldest, and I can be more laid back with my youngest.

 

Sorry, this got a little long! I think it's great you're looking for advice here. These ladies are a Wealth of information. Be sure to read, The Well Trained Mind if you haven't. I re-read it every semester to form my goals and thoughts. It's invaluable to you as a homeschooler!

 

Blessings to you!

 

Thank you for the kind words, and the encouragement without being judgmental! How do you get your oldest dd to do work with a glad heart? :)

[Lovedtodeath]

You can see a sample of what we use in my sig and at my photo album http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/4Cedars/homeschool/. Their are Geography Draw Write Now books (7&8) with animals of the world, and we have Disney Learning's Our World, and Around the World Art and Activities. Then we get all the library books we can. I just do a search for that country as the keyword and make a pile of jr. picture books and jr. non-fiction books. DD usually wants to read them all. It is a blast. You can also look into the programs Galloping the Globe and A Trip Around the World.

 

I lost your email address. My PM box was full and I deleted the wrong thing. (oops!)

[islandmama]

My only question is: At what age do you start insisting that your child do schoolwork? Age 6?

 

I would agree it depends on your goals and style. I require math, language arts, and reading daily from my 7 yo. When she was 6 I was much more relaxed, focused on reading/phonics and math games. Now she knows what MUST be done, and yes, there is a consequence if she refuses. It's only about 15 min of math, language arts and reading each. The only thing she refuses to do is math most days. I will also give her the option of playing math games or computer games online too. This will get more of her cooperation. The consequence for not doing her required work is no fun stuff that day. She loves science and history and I don't have to convince her of that, but I can usually strike up a deal because she really wants to do the other subjects. ;) But if she is really frustrated from not getting it, we will not go on past 15 min or so and continue tomorrow. But up until this year, I mostly followed her cues and went at her pace. She is still adjusting this year to required work, but getting alot better at it. Now, first thing in the morning she will ask, "can we do math and get it over with so we can do science experiments?"

[islandmama]

 

I love that description! I think I would call me "Relaxed Classical with a WinterPromise/FIAR Flavor". I might just do that. I haven't seen a better description. :)

 

 

Thanks Lovetodeath! :) I'm not as structured as most Classical hs'ers and have alot of Charlotte Mason influence, but not totally on board there either... A definite mix of both!

[Haiku]

If you do this, doesn't it make school seem like work? In other words, she will see school as being something she must suffer through to get what she wants, right?... :confused:

 

I don't think so. My kids love school. Rarely do they complain about it. However, they also know that computer or tv time comes after school. That's just the way it is, not a punishment or anything. I think it depends on how it's presented: "Do this or you get no tv time!" versus "Yes, after your schoolwork is done, you may use your tv time."

 

Were my kids to regularly complain or refuse to do school, then I would see that as a more serious problem that needed to be addressed in ways above and beyond denying them media time.

 

At your daughter's age, I don't think you need to insist on any time spent on any academic pursuits, for two reasons. One, as you know from our discussion on your other thread, is because I don't think four year olds benefit from academic instruction presented as such. The second reason has more to do with semantics: if what you are doing with your kids is fun and developmentally appropriate, you won't need to "insist" that it be done. That would be like me "insisting" that my kids play a game with me every day. I don't have to insist, because they love doing it. Your ideas about playing on the driveway with chalk are along the lines of what I am talking about. Would you "insist" that your kids do this, or do they do it simply because they love to? If they start to lose interest because it's not novel anymore, will you "insist" that they continue or will you find another way to play and learn with them?

 

When my kids were your kids' ages, I did not necessarily look for ways to slip learning into what they were doing. I just trusted that they were learning because of the way we lived our life. If my kids helped me set the table and I asked them for five forks, I wasn't checking off in my head that they could count to five. They were just doing what kids do and acquiring the skills and knowledge that kids acquire.

 

Personally, I think first grade is a good time to start formal academic work. Kids are usually six by then; some are seven. They have developed more motor coordination, more ability to focus, and more maturity. I don't see kindergarten as necessary. I know that SWB advocates starting phonics instruction at age five. I don't think every child (and especially boys) is ready at that age. My son does kindergarten because he wants to be included with my daughter. However, I give him minimal amounts of work, and I don't have any expectations of him for this year. My feeling is that there is no point in frustrating him and me trying to make him do something that is a struggle for him this year that probably won't be next year.

 

Tara

[Lovedtodeath]

I don't think so. My kids love school. Rarely do they complain about it. However, they also know that computer or tv time comes after school. That's just the way it is, not a punishment or anything. I think it depends on how it's presented: Exactly! That usually works just fine because they don't have the media distracting them from doing it anyway.

 

At your daughter's age, I don't think you need to insist on any time spent on any academic pursuits, for two reasons. I am pretty sure we were beyond this topic and she wanted to know for the future. I liked your example about not needing to insist if it was developementally appropriate.

 

Personally, I think first grade is a good time to start formal academic work. Kids are usually six by then; some are seven. They have developed more motor coordination, more ability to focus, and more maturity. I don't see kindergarten as necessary. I know that SWB advocates starting phonics instruction at age five. I don't think every child (and especially boys) is ready at that age. My son does kindergarten because he wants to be included with my daughter. However, I give him minimal amounts of work, and I don't have any expectations of him for this year. My feeling is that there is no point in frustrating him and me trying to make him do something that is a struggle for him this year that probably won't be next year. Phonics is started as early as possible according to TWTM, but it is kept at minutes per day, and it is not in addition to other work. Phonics is it! No handwriting, science, etc. It cracks me up when people say that they are following TWTM requirements for K and I see this list of various things after their name! Phonics Pathways or Ordinary Parents Guide is all that should be there.:D

Tara

I love your statement that I bolded. We planned on starting 1st in January b/c Emily was young. We are just now finding a groove and if I had insisted on 1st grade work starting in September we would have been very frustrated.

[Mommy22alyns]

I don't think so. My kids love school. Rarely do they complain about it. However, they also know that computer or tv time comes after school. That's just the way it is, not a punishment or anything. I think it depends on how it's presented: "Do this or you get no tv time!" versus "Yes, after your schoolwork is done, you may use your tv time."

 

 

:iagree: Sort of like we do with food and eating... "You may have a cookie after you eat all of your dinner."

 

 

And some days are just "those kinds of days" when you have to postpone one or two things you'd planned on doing until tomorrow. Or the weekend. ;)

[coffeefreak]

Thank you for the kind words, and the encouragement without being judgmental! How do you get your oldest dd to do work with a glad heart? :)

 

:lol::lol:

When I figure that out, I'll let you know!

 

She's not allowed to grumble, complain, whine etc. If she wants to express an opinion, she has to do it in a "right way." She can say, "I'm frustrated with this math problem Mom, can you help me?" She can't say, "I HATE MATH (insert crying here), I CAN'T DOOOOOOITTTTT!":crying:

 

Can you tell this is a problem at our house?

 

But, I've also gotten better at reading her. I can tell when she's frustrated, and I try to step in before it gets to that point. I also chose as much curriculum as I can that I think she'll enjoy. That way, the stuff that is not as enjoyable to her (Math, for example), is not as much of a burden.

[MitchellMom]

You can see a sample of what we use in my sig and at my photo album http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/4Cedars/homeschool/. Their are Geography Draw Write Now books (7&8) with animals of the world, and we have Disney Learning's Our World, and Around the World Art and Activities. Then we get all the library books we can. I just do a search for that country as the keyword and make a pile of jr. picture books and jr. non-fiction books. DD usually wants to read them all. It is a blast. You can also look into the programs Galloping the Globe and A Trip Around the World.

 

I lost your email address. My PM box was full and I deleted the wrong thing. (oops!)

 

Thanks so much - I'm going to look into all of these. I think dd is too young for Galloping the Globe though it is right up her alley!

 

I would agree it depends on your goals and style. I require math, language arts, and reading daily from my 7 yo. When she was 6 I was much more relaxed, focused on reading/phonics and math games. Now she knows what MUST be done, and yes, there is a consequence if she refuses. It's only about 15 min of math, language arts and reading each. The only thing she refuses to do is math most days. I will also give her the option of playing math games or computer games online too. This will get more of her cooperation. The consequence for not doing her required work is no fun stuff that day. She loves science and history and I don't have to convince her of that, but I can usually strike up a deal because she really wants to do the other subjects. ;) But if she is really frustrated from not getting it, we will not go on past 15 min or so and continue tomorrow. But up until this year, I mostly followed her cues and went at her pace. She is still adjusting this year to required work, but getting alot better at it. Now, first thing in the morning she will ask, "can we do math and get it over with so we can do science experiments?"

 

That's wonderful that she loves science so much!

 

I don't think so. My kids love school. Rarely do they complain about it. However, they also know that computer or tv time comes after school. That's just the way it is, not a punishment or anything. I think it depends on how it's presented: "Do this or you get no tv time!" versus "Yes, after your schoolwork is done, you may use your tv time."

 

Were my kids to regularly complain or refuse to do school, then I would see that as a more serious problem that needed to be addressed in ways above and beyond denying them media time.

 

At your daughter's age, I don't think you need to insist on any time spent on any academic pursuits, for two reasons. One, as you know from our discussion on your other thread, is because I don't think four year olds benefit from academic instruction presented as such. The second reason has more to do with semantics: if what you are doing with your kids is fun and developmentally appropriate, you won't need to "insist" that it be done. That would be like me "insisting" that my kids play a game with me every day. I don't have to insist, because they love doing it. Your ideas about playing on the driveway with chalk are along the lines of what I am talking about. Would you "insist" that your kids do this, or do they do it simply because they love to? If they start to lose interest because it's not novel anymore, will you "insist" that they continue or will you find another way to play and learn with them?

 

When my kids were your kids' ages, I did not necessarily look for ways to slip learning into what they were doing. I just trusted that they were learning because of the way we lived our life. If my kids helped me set the table and I asked them for five forks, I wasn't checking off in my head that they could count to five. They were just doing what kids do and acquiring the skills and knowledge that kids acquire.

 

Personally, I think first grade is a good time to start formal academic work. Kids are usually six by then; some are seven. They have developed more motor coordination, more ability to focus, and more maturity. I don't see kindergarten as necessary. I know that SWB advocates starting phonics instruction at age five. I don't think every child (and especially boys) is ready at that age. My son does kindergarten because he wants to be included with my daughter. However, I give him minimal amounts of work, and I don't have any expectations of him for this year. My feeling is that there is no point in frustrating him and me trying to make him do something that is a struggle for him this year that probably won't be next year.

 

Tara

 

Makes perfect sense. Today my mom looked through my daughter's math portfolio (just a collection of the worksheets she has done) and my daughter said she'd had fun doing those and that she wants to start doing them every day again. :001_huh: How did that happen? As soon as I back off, she wants to do math again?...

 

:lol::lol:

When I figure that out, I'll let you know!

 

She's not allowed to grumble, complain, whine etc. If she wants to express an opinion, she has to do it in a "right way." She can say, "I'm frustrated with this math problem Mom, can you help me?" She can't say, "I HATE MATH (insert crying here), I CAN'T DOOOOOOITTTTT!":crying:

 

Can you tell this is a problem at our house?

 

But, I've also gotten better at reading her. I can tell when she's frustrated, and I try to step in before it gets to that point. I also chose as much curriculum as I can that I think she'll enjoy. That way, the stuff that is not as enjoyable to her (Math, for example), is not as much of a burden.

 

This makes sense. I've been talking to my children about this, too - the correct way to express opinions (not just about school, but about everything). I think it's going to take a lot of reminders. :tongue_smilie: