New here and really need help with math

[Sweetpetunia]

Hi,

 

I'm Julie. I keep bumping into these forums while searching for curriculum help online and it seems there is a large variety of curriculum used here so I thought I'd finally register and ask a question or two.

 

My girls are severely behind in math. They simply can't retain their math facts. I bounced around from one curriculum to another over the years, trying to find what works for them and finally settled on MUS a few years ago. I figured we could catch up if we worked really hard.

 

A few years ago tragedy struck our family and I was simply unable to focus on school at all. We'd do a lesson here or there but that was it. I finally snapped out of it about 6 months ago and was freaking out because I realized my oldest especially is hopelessly behind in math in particular but both girls are very behind.

 

I have both girls doing drill with Quarter Mile Math every day.

 

My oldest loves MUS and refuses to think about switching math programs again. The problem is she just turned 15 and is only half way through Gamma! I keep telling her to do more than one lesson a day and she says 'okay', but soon I get distracted and she's back to doing as little as she possibly can. I think the only solution is to keep going and make her use Times Tales to memorize the facts she can't seem to get. She fusses about it but I'm done messing around. If anyone has any suggestions on how to move her along more quickly I'd love to hear them.

 

My 2nd DD is 10 and slowly working through Singapore Primary Math (U.S.) 1A. She didn't like MUS. I've been having her alternate every other day doing a lesson in Singapore and using Math Windows addition drill but she still has problems memorizing her addition facts and it takes her forever to write out the answers. In a timed fact drill of 3 minutes she'll only get about 1/3 to 1/4 of an addition fact page done. I can see her counting every time I work with her. How long should it take her to start learning her addition facts? I ordered a workbook called Two Plus Two Is Not Five but I haven't seen it yet. I don't know if that will help her or not but I'm hoping.

 

How helpful are the Singapore extras that Sonlight offers? Has anyone here tried them? I asked for cash for Christmas instead of gifts so I can buy whatever curriculum I can afford. I should have enough to buy the Sonlight extras since I already have the Singapore text/work books. Do you think the'll do any good? If not, any suggestions?

 

Oh! I almost forgot, I'm doing a review for Math Mammoth and we received the grade 3 Light Blue series for DD#1 and the Subtraction 1 and Add & Subtract 2A Blue Series books for DD#2. Are these a good compliment to Singapore and/or MUS?

 

I want to get this all figured out. I need to have a better direction to take my next 2 children who are 5 yrs and 14 months. I don't want them to struggle like their older sisters.

 

Sorry I hope that all made sense and TIA for any help you can give.

 

 

Julie

 

[jensway]

Just wanted to chime in on MUS. We have used this curriculum from the start and love the step by step progression.

[Quad Shot Academy]

MUS is a great program and it is wonderful for older kids who need to catch up. It sounds like you will have to sit on her about it though. We have separated memory drill from concept learning. Keep her drilling the facts but also moving forward in the concepts. She should be able to do 2 or even more lessons a week and still keep up a significant amount of drill work daily.

 

:iagree:

 

At this point, memorization would not be a big goal of mine. I got A's through Cal-2 in college w/o having my facts memorized. I kept a little pocket calculator to the side of my graphing calculator and would type in the basic facts (8+6, 9x8). Some people, like me, have a learning disability that makes rote memorization almost impossible.

 

I would have them work on Math for 3 or 4, 20 minute sessions everyday, including Saturdays, but that is just me ;)

[Testimony]

I kept thinking when I saw your post two things:

 

1. Did you post this question on the high school board since the older one is in high school?

 

2. How about math games?

 

I was thinking in terms of games that would encourage the math thinking process. I play Dominoes with my sons. I play 21 or blackjack. I know, but they learn how to add with this program. I play Scrabble. It is a spelling game, but my son who has trouble with math. We have him be the score keeper. He is forced to add and subtract. We have him as the banker in Monopoly.

 

I think personally that math games always help to improve the math facts wtihout scaring the child. It is also a great way to test the child's ability.

 

Merry Christmas!

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[Aurelia]

I was also thinking about games. Right Start has a math game set (you can use with your younger ones too, when they get there) that reinforce/give practice in the math concepts without seeming like drill.

[ElizabethB]

I just got a Flashmaster after seeing it recommended here, some other good ideas for math facts as well:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69928&highlight=math+facts+flashmaster

 

It's been a helpful tool for us, I use it to identify the ones she needs to work on, then we work on those "off-line." (She gets too frustrated with the machine if she doesn't know all of the answers, she's much happier in normal practice mode where she'll just miss a few but get most of them right, I use the "last 15 missed problems" myself to identify what current facts she needs to work on.)

 

It has several different levels and modes. You can use it for addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. My daughter likes typing in the answer better than writing out an answer, it's made math facts a little less painful for us (although she still doesn't really like it, she likes it better than the alternatives we have tried.)

 

I looked on Amazon first, it's very expensive there, I found it cheaper at Sonlight. Still a bit expensive, but worth it to me.

Edited December 24, 2008 by ElizabethB

[Sweetpetunia]

MUS is a great program and it is wonderful for older kids who need to catch up. It sounds like you will have to sit on her about it though. ...

 

Oh good thanks for the encouragement with MUS. I just don't know how to make her understand how important it is that she get it in gear and quickly if she's going to finish in time. I hate to say it but she's pretty stubborn.

 

Thanks for the Rainbow resource tip, I didn't realize they carried Singapore I'll have to take a look.

 

... Some people, like me, have a learning disability that makes rote memorization almost impossible.

 

I would have them work on Math for 3 or 4, 20 minute sessions everyday, including Saturdays, but that is just me ;)

 

You know I was wondering about them being unable to retain math facts. Do you think it's possible they both have a disability in that area? Most of the time I just attribute their problems to having tried so many different math programs but at other times I wonder if it's something more. How would a person go about finding out if it's an actual learning disability?

 

I'm glad you mentioned having them work more on math. My oldest especially seems to think I'm abusing them when I have them work on Saturdays. Actually, DD#2 doesn't seem to mind all that much, it's mostly my teen now that I think about it. Thanks for the encouragement there.

 

I kept thinking when I saw your post two things:

 

1. Did you post this question on the high school board since the older one is in high school?

 

2. How about math games?

 

...

 

Oh no, I didn't. I tend to forget at times that she should actually be in high school since the last couple of years seem to have gotten away from me. I'll do that and see if they have any more suggestions for me.

 

You know I do have the RSM card game set. I'd completely forgotten about it! I'm going to have to break that out and get started.

 

 

Thanks everyone I really appreciate all this help, sorry if I didn't mention you but so many of you nice ladies responded. :) Hope we can work it all out.

 

 

Julie

[Quad Shot Academy]

I was tested in elementary school by a psychologist and again in high school. The psychologists had a lot to offer to teach me study habits that really helped and ways around my lack of memory to be able to pass classes. I don't know if LD are hereditary, environmental, or what, so I am not sure what the likelihood is that they both have one.

 

Kids that go to a school do homework every night and every weekend. I see know reason why a home schooled child, especially one that is behind, shouldn't either!

[jensway]

Yes math games! I used to teach a Math Games class in a co-op we were in for 4 semesters. I can give you a few on here.:001_smile:

 

1. Bean Bag Math

You will need been bags, paper plates. On the bottom of the paper plates write the numbers 1-10, one number on each plate. Spread the plates out on the floor with numbers not showing. Have the kids toss bean bags to land on a plate. Can be any number of plates that you want to have them work a math problem. You can use these plates for addition, subtraction, and multiplication. The more plates that they land on the harder the game will get--for example: during multiplication 2 plates: 5 x 3 =15 but if you add a plate 5 x 3 x 2 =30. This game was a real big hit in class it got the kids up from their tables and physical doing something they liked.:thumbup:

 

2. Math for Checkers

You will need a cheap checkers game, and small blank stickers. On the blank stickers write the numbers 1-12, one number on each sticker. Then play checkers with the number side down. When a player tries to make a jump they must first complete the math equation--whether it be addition,subtraction or multiplication. We used this a lot for multiplication in class cause it gave the kids both a challenge of math facts along with logic skills of playing checkers.:thumbup1:

 

I had a saying that everyone learned in my class: "Math is everywhere!"

Really it is. Point it out to your kids through out the day when you can to the kids. Look at art--how many fish in the painting? Cooking--work with fractions and the measuring cups. For dinner have put food on their plate in different shapes--then have them divide those shapes into different or smaller shapes. For example a sandwich for lunch can be turned to make a diamond, the diamond can be cut in half to make a triangle.

 

Math is everywhere, make it fun!:D

[yvonne]

Gee, you know Singapore is very teacher-intensive AND the teacher really kind of has to know what she is doing & where she's going to fully benefit from it. We're using it & I'm going through the books on the side, starting with PM 3, just to learn the thinking behind it myself before my boys get there.

 

If I were you, I _might_ use it for the two younger kids _if_ I had the time to put into it. But since your daughter is already 10 and already behind, and because you've already got your hands more than full with a high schooler, I'd get the 10 year old into a bare-bones, no-frills, get-it-done, solid, structured math text. I'd use Rod & Staff. That's about as straight-forward as it comes. Or, if you have a little time to put into it, Horizons. Horizons is prettier and perhaps more pleasant, but you will have to keep tabs on the teacher's manual to make sure you're covering the oral/reinforcement work.

 

I should say that math is not my strong point. If it's yours, Singapore might come naturally for you & maybe you wouldn't have any issues with it in the higher (3A+) levels. If it isn't, I personally would not jump in at this point.

 

On the up side, she is only 10, so you do have a time before high school to help her get caught up!

 

yvonne

[yvonne]

In a timed fact drill of 3 minutes she'll only get about 1/3 to 1/4 of an addition fact page done. I can see her counting every time I work with her.

 

I wonder if doing the drill orally rather than written would help?

 

There's no way my boys would have done much fact drill if we hadn't done it orally. They just could not write that fast. It is much less painful to do it orally. I know Flashmaster works for some folks. We have that and Math Shark, but for us nothing worked as well as plain, old-fashioned flash cards--every single day, M-F. Start with the easy facts for each operation. When they have those down cold, add a few more difficult ones to the stack. Before you know it, they won't have to count anymore. The key, though, is consistency. A little practice every day.

 

yvonne

[Stacy in NJ]

For your 15 yo I wouldn't continue with MUS. I would have a look at Lial's Basic College Math and consider using it for as long as required to get through it and really master it. If she's able to complete it in a year or two, then she'll have a shot at completing Algebra and geometry prior to graduating. Another considerations would be Teaching Textbook 6.

[Starr]

Love these teens :). My dd who doesn't have any trouble with school work still needs me to check to be sure she's getting it all done. I guess they are still home for a reason. I do some school when we are home on saturdays. I also like math games and math fact songs. We played them in the car. I made my dc sing or say the problem and the answer, not just the answer.

[Julieofsardis]

For your 15 yo I wouldn't continue with MUS. I would have a look at Lial's Basic College Math and consider using it for as long as required to get through it and really master it. If she's able to complete it in a year or two, then she'll have a shot at completing Algebra and geometry prior to graduating. Another considerations would be Teaching Textbook 6.

 

:iagree: She could take this as slowly as necessary, but still complete a comprehensive overview of basic concepts in a minimal amount of time rather than using a graded curriculum that reviews the same concepts over again each year.

 

Just in case you aren't familiar with this text, it's not technically a college level math course. It was originally designed for students who arrived in college needing a remedial course in math, if I am not mistaken.

[Mandy in TN]

Alright, dd 15yo is doing MUS Gamma, Quarter Mile Math, Times Tales, and Math Mammoth grade 3 Light Blue. She likes MUS Gamma, but isn't working quickly and fights you on the rest of it. If she likes MUS Gamma and is doing it, albeit slowly, let her continue doing it. Drop the rest of it. It is more of the same.

 

Instead of doing more of the same, look at Teaching Textbooks 5. TT6 may be too big of a jump, so it may be discouaging instead of moving her ahead. But look at the table of contents and see. Plan to do TT5 over the next year and a half while she continues with Gamma and Delta. Give her a mulitplication table, a calculator, whatever, and hand hold her through each lesson, so that she at least has the exposure, even if it is without mastery, to a greater variety of concepts.

 

She will not do this independently. This is something that you will need to do with her daily. Even my 6yo does some school on Saturday. Doing math over the weekend at 15yo is common. She and you need to do this 6 days/ week year round.

 

If you are too emotional or she is too hormonal for the two of you to work together effectively, hire a tutor. My 17yo ds goes to a math tutor. I can't work with him. Frankly, it makes me angry to look at his blank face when I know that he has covered the material and should know how to do the problems. His tutor is much more patient.:glare:

 

My oldest will graduate at 19yo. I have a friend that whose ds is in 9th and just turned 16yo in November. She can graduate at 19yo and, unless your state or umbrella school says otherwise, she can graduate without Alg2.

 

8th/9th- Gamma, then Delta with TT5

9th/10th- Delta, then Epsilon with TT6

10th/11th- Epsilon, then Zeta with TT7

11th/12th- Zeta, then MUS PreAlg

12th- MUS Alg1 & MUS Geometry concurrently

 

After this graduate her. Chances are she will not be a rocket scientist, but very few of us are. :tongue_smilie:

 

You can't redo the past, but you can meet her where she is and move forward with diligence.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Mandy in TN]

Your 10yo dd is slowly working through Singapore Primary Math (U.S.) 1A, Math Windows addition drill, and Math Mammoth Add & Subtract 2A Blue Series books.

 

This really looks like a good combo! She is doing a conceptually strong basal program along with some sound mastery work.

 

But, this will not catch her up. Unless she is moving through Singapore more quickly, she will be 15yo and doing 4B/ 5A. However, if you speed up just a little so that she is doing 6A/ 6B at 15yo, then you could call it pre-Alg and move from there into Alg1.:D

 

HTH-

Mandy

[EKS]

If there isn't some severe learning disability or other problem (I'm assuming that your 15 yo is able to learn other things besides math just fine) then she ought to be able to get through Zeta by the end of this school year. I'm serious. If she is halfway through Gamma, then she should know most of the multiplication facts. If she doesn't know them, move on anyway and have her use a table. Facts are frequently cemented when doing higher level work.

 

You need to sit with her while she is doing the work (and I agree with the other posters that six days per week is reasonable at this point). That way you can be sure she is focusing on it and you can see if she is understanding the concepts. If she is having any trouble, correct it immediately. Be sure to do the review pages. The first many lessons of each level are extremely easy. You can move through these very quickly and then linger a bit over the harder lessons at the end. You don't have to use all the worksheets provided for each lesson. Spending up to 2 hours on math each day is normal in high school.

 

Once you are finished with Zeta, I would have her do a quick review of all arithmetic over the summer (ALEKS is good for this). Even when you start prealgebra, I would continue to have her review arithmetic, perhaps with the MUS review sheets that you didn't use before. Target the review to her trouble spots. You could also continue with ALEKS while you do prealgebra. Do all the worksheets, one of new problems and one review each day. That way she will be able to get through prealgebra in one semester (theoretically). If you keep up this pace, assuming that you have 3.5 or so years left, she could finish at least algebra and geometry.

 

I'm surprised that *she* doesn't see being in a 3rd grade math book at age 15 a problem. I understand that one of the great things about homeschooling is that grade level designations don't have the importance that they do in school, but surely she must have some opinion about being 7 grade levels behind. Use that to your advantage, be her cheering section, tell her that you'll do it together and that she *can* get caught up with a reasonable effort.

[Jann in TX]

My oldest is 18 and has just recently mastered her basic facts! Her recall is still slower than I wanted--but she does not have to rely on a calculator or table for small problems.

 

I've taught many remedial math students (ages 14 and up)--most did not know their basic facts. Instead of camping out on that issue--and HOLDING THEM BACK conceptually (a different part of their brain), I moved them along and helped them learn how to cope. If they understand HOW the basic facts WORK, and they have seriously TRIED to learn them, I relax and move on. I've had great success with this no-stress method.

 

Not every person can memorize the basic facts to a point of fast recall.

 

Unless your 15yr has other underlying learning issues I would move her along. If she can work basic multi-digit addition, subtraction, multiplication and long division problems then she is ready to jump into Pre-Algebra. When she actually starts USING the basic facts she will become more efficient.

 

I would only allow her access to a calculator for percentage and decimal problems through about the middle of Algebra 1--then allow it as needed.

 

If she needs a crutch then give her a table. Donnayoung.org has some you can print out. My daughter did not really need the addition/subtraction table--she was pretty fast with her fingers if she needed help. She used a multiplication table for YEARS. She did learned some skip counting (we jumped rope) and was able to make her own table if she needed one--I also had one taped to the last page in her math book. Eventually the constantly looking back started bugging her and she started retaining more of the facts!

 

90% of all errors made in Algebra are due to miscalculations (about 5th grade level). While having good recall of basic facts helps curb these mistakes---it does not eliminate them! Even the brightest of my students will rush through a problem and sure enough--2+3=6 or 4X3=7 Because my daughter paid closer attention she RARELY makes this type of error. She does work a bit slower than the average student--but her grades are HIGH!!!

[at the beach]

Here is my suggestion for what it's worth. :)

 

I would put both my kids in Rod and Staff Math. I would probably start the 10 yo in the 3d grade book and the fifteen year old with Math 4 or 5.

 

We have used Rod and Staff Math. Rod and Staff is thorough, systematic, and has lots of built in review. It is also the clearest math program I have looked at as far as having explanations make sense to me and my child. We use Singapore now, and I love Singapore, but I have Rod and Staff on my shelf and I do turn to it when my dd gets tripped up in Singapore. Rod and Staff will make sure your kids have basic arithmetic skills down pat. It's also easy for a teacher to use. You'd have to sit with your kids but everything is in the teacher manual. You can do some of the problems orally, too, to reduce writing. If you spend 45 minutes a day with Rod and Staff, your kids will make significant progress I think.

 

I am assuming that you have no LD issues, but even still, I think Rod and Staff would be worth a try.

 

We also have Flashmaster, and we like it here!

 

Good luck!

 

Anita

[Sweetpetunia]

Thank you all so much for all the ideas and suggestions!

 

Wow, if I'd realized what a knowledgeable group this was I would've joined long ago. :) You've all given me a whole lot to think about and lots of good options.

 

Funny how many of you mentioned how strange it is that my oldest is not more concerned about how far behind she is. I'm completely baffled over that one too. I don't know how to make her see how much of a problem this is. She and I have always butted heads so I don't want to be too harsh, yet it seems she just doesn't understand what I've said to her about it so far. I have no idea how to get through to her effectively.

 

I'd never even heard of Lial's Math before. I was really confused trying to find it at first, then once I realized it's a remedial college program it made so much sense. DH had me buy a used teacher's manual for $4 so we can look it over as one of our options. I do have to say that my DD is, ahem, strong-willed so she's going to fight me over switching to something other than MUS if that's the way we decide to go.

 

I'd already been looking at TT because a friend recommended it last summer.

 

I very much appreciate you all agreeing that we need to spend more time on math with her every day. It helps a lot to have reassurance that I'm, in fact, not the world's worst mother for insisting on more time spent working on it.

 

I don't think my oldest has LDs. As far as I can tell, we just fell behind. She also tested way behind grade level in spelling. Last spring I had her complete an online assessment and it said she was spelling at a low 4th grade level. Someone suggested I try Apples spelling program and I can see she's improved a whole lot, so I don't think LDs are a problem for her unless she has one that affects her only in the area of math. She has an incredible memory. About 6 years ago she memorized Psalm 119 for her Sunday School teacher who took her up for a ride in his glider as a reward so this problem memorizing math facts really stumped me. I guess memorizing numbers is a bit different than memorizing words.

 

Now my 10 year old may have LDs. She's an excellent reader but everything else takes her much more effort to learn and do than it did my oldest. I read a description somewhere of a "stealth dyslexic" and it sounded very much like her. Now that a few of you have suggested R&S math, I'm going to take a serious look at it. She likes R&S's Spelling By Sound and Structure quite a bit, so she just may like their math program too. Hopefully a basic math program would be easier for us both.

 

I've also checked into Flashmaster and Horizons math.

 

Again, thank you all so much for the ideas and suggestions. Poor DH has a migraine for Christmas but once he feels better I'll have to go over all this with him.

 

 

Julie

[Lovedtodeath]

Two things to add: MUS is a mastery program. Your DD needs to master the material. That means that she needs to look at a question in the workbook and teach you how to do it. Once she can do that... she has mastered that portion. Move her on to the next lesson. She does not have to do every worksheet.

 

Addition facts: Definitely do them orally. Addition Made Easy is working really well for my DD to remember her facts. The book has facts for 3-8. 1,2, and 9 have a page that tells the student the "trick" to figuring the answer in their head.

 

Math facts in general: I learned mine. I forgot them. I went on to Algebra 4. To this day I have to use tic marks on my paper to add without a calculator. I have had jobs in accounting and graphic design. It's not major if your student doesn't have all of them down.

 

And finally: Switching math programs is usually not recommended. So if MUS will work then stick with it. One math program is all that is required, so I would concentrate on getting on with it instead of doing more than one.

[inashoe]

My 2nd DD is 10 and slowly working through Singapore Primary Math (U.S.) 1A. I

How helpful are the Singapore extras that Sonlight offers? Has anyone here tried the

 

 

Julie

 

 

Hi Julie,

 

For your dd10, I would say that you don't need the singapore supplements. I have the extras and for your situation I would say they are not necessary. If your dd10 is happy with singapore then keep going, but you might find that if she is weak in math that it is a bit difficult for her. MUS is great for kids who need better explanations and need to "see" the math.

 

I use the math drills on the MUS website.

[Sweetpetunia]

Two things to add: MUS is a mastery program. Your DD needs to master the material. That means that she needs to look at a question in the workbook and teach you how to do it. Once she can do that... she has mastered that portion. Move her on to the next lesson. She does not have to do every worksheet.

 

Addition facts: Definitely do them orally. Addition Made Easy is working really well for my DD to remember her facts. The book has facts for 3-8. 1,2, and 9 have a page that tells the student the "trick" to figuring the answer in their head.

 

...

 

Yes, thanks for these reminders. Generally, my teen does not like working with me because we tend to have lots of interruptions from the littles and the two of us don't work well together in general most of the time but I think I need to make it a point to sit down with her every day for math.

 

I'm glad some of you have said to do drill with DD#2 orally. I don't know why I didn't think of that. She has a hard time writing so maybe that's part of the reason the drill doesn't seem to be doing much for her since she's having to concentrate so hard on the mechanics of writing.

 

This is great, thanks,

 

 

Julie

[Lovedtodeath]

I said two things then kept adding to it. LOL!

[Sweetpetunia]

Hi Julie,

 

For your dd10, I would say that you don't need the singapore supplements. I have the extras and for your situation I would say they are not necessary. If your dd10 is happy with singapore then keep going, but you might find that if she is weak in math that it is a bit difficult for her. MUS is great for kids who need better explanations and need to "see" the math.

 

I use the math drills on the MUS website.

 

See, I'm kinda stuck then. DD likes Singapore a lot more than MUS, in fact, that's why we switched, but she also struggles in math. Her main problem is trying to remember the facts so when she goes to do the work, it takes her a long time to count.

 

DD also likes Math Mammoth. I wonder if we made it a point to work on Singapore math first thing in the morning, do her math drill orally, then let her do Math Mammoth on her own after spelling, LA and handwriting she can start moving through Singapore faster. DH asked that we finish out her Singapore workbooks before we consider switching to Rod & Staff. I think that's a good idea. I'm thinking since I'm not that great with math, R&S might be a good choice for us, however I have to say that I kinda like Singapore.

 

Oh and thanks for letting me know the Singapore extras are not necessary, that's going to save me some money. :D

[Guest]

Have you looked at TouchMath? It is a multisensory program. It is the only thing that got my two oldest to get the math facts/. The kits are expensive but the workbooks are available as singles if you call to order. http://www.touchmath.com

 

Also, have you looked at life of fred or ChalkDust for your older? They might be worth checking out.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Julie,

 

I have to say that I would do things differently with your teenager. It will take some discipline though. If she doesn't have it, then you'll have to have that much more of it.

 

I think we tend to get stuck thinking 3rd grade, 4th grade, 5th grade, 6th grade math....Thing is, there really are only TWO levels of math before Algebra. Now most kids need more repetition than to do those two levels in only two years and that is even more true the earlier you start. VERY few 7yos can do intermediate math just because they did primary math at 6. And because of lack of life experience and math experience, they aren't likely to speed through each level in just a year anyway.

 

But a 15yo is COMPLETELY different. They've been cooking for years. They've handled money. They do basic math for various projects. They have a lot more experience to draw from to make it all come together.

 

Years ago, when my daughter was only 3, a neighbor child was 17, in 8th grade, and working at a 4th grade level. The school said there was nothing wrong with her and refused services. Of course, I'm sure I could get them to do better now that I know more about THAT, but....So I worked with her. I believed strongly that 4th-8th grade math is really the same work to various degrees. Though S had some LDs also, I knew she could do better. And she finally felt SMART because someone met her where she was at and took her to grade level (it is not reasonable to think you'd get a kid from 4th grade math to Algebra II within a year, but 4th to 8th is possible with a teenager). She did BEAUTIFULLY. In fact, so well that she started community college a year and a half later. She still needed a little help, but she was finally CAPABLE.

 

I would do similarly with your daughter. You might have her do a brief practice on the facts daily, but a chart will work just as well. Lots of people never memorize the facts and do just fine.

 

I would not stay at the lower math. I'd do something like Lial's Basic College Mathematics which is an excellent Pre-Algebra program. It doesn't assume the student knows anything and starts at basic arithmetic. It's only 77 (i think?) lessons but there are a LOT of practice problems for most lessons so she'll be able to get good at it. It probably isnt' reasonable to think it'll only take a semester (though some colleges do it that quickly for their remedial math program). A year or so is probably more reasonable. She needs to get these concepts and skills down though as these are the math skills she'll use FOREVER and they are necessary to do high school and college maths.

 

Lial's is often used at community colleges for their lowest remedial math but you might check out what is available at your local community college. The one I went to a few years ago had created their own curriculum for the remedial math and it was great. It also was a little less intimidating that Lial's can be from Introductory ALgebra on. Most adult students finished a level in a semester. Your daughter may or may not be able to do that (as most adult students also had the maths in middle school and high school and are refreshing those skills, not starting completely from scratch).

 

Anyway, so that is what I would do. I can't imagine being 15yrs old doing 3rd grade work. It seems like that would feel one would never catch up so what's the point. Also, it probably mostly seems beneath her and she probably doesn't need QUITE that much break-down and practice. She's definitely closer to a remedial 18yo than a 3rd grader, I would guess.

 

HTHs a little,

Edited December 26, 2008 by 2J5M9K

[Pamela H in Texas]

main problem is trying to remember the facts so when she goes to do the work, it takes her a long time to count.

 

I would keep working on the facts with a 10yo; but when she's doing conceptual work, I would give her addition and multiplication charts to consult.

[LanaTron]

Funny how many of you mentioned how strange it is that my oldest is not more concerned about how far behind she is. I'm completely baffled over that one too. I don't know how to make her see how much of a problem this is. She and I have always butted heads so I don't want to be too harsh, yet it seems she just doesn't understand what I've said to her about it so far. I have no idea how to get through to her effectively.

 

 

 

Just guessing here...

 

Maybe that's just it, though. Maybe she's overwhelmed at how behind she is, and her response is a feeling of "I'm never going to catch up, and I'm obviously not good at math, so why bother?"

 

I know that I, for example, feel that way sometimes about house cleaning. But, I am an adult (most of the time :tongue_smilie:) and I know to just roll my sleeves up and start with one little bit at a time. I know that even if I never get "caught up," the effort will make a huge improvement.

 

Your dd is only 15 and may not be mature enough to see that for herself.

 

Another poster in this thread said for you to be her cheering section, which may just be exactly what she needs. A lot of "you can do it!" and "I'm right here with you," and "your dad and I love you and we're here to help," may not produce immediate visible results, but will go a long way towards building her confidence and reducing any feelings of being overwhelmed she may be having.

 

And I know what you mean about not being able to work with your dd. It's like that for my 11 yo and I, especially with math; she's in MUS Gamma and just hit a big block with 2-digit by 2-digit multiplication.

 

We get so frustrated with each other. Lately I have been working on not getting emotional myself and telling her that I am going to work on the concept with her until she gets it. I have been reminding her not to be angry, but to be open because she'll gain understanding sooner if she is open.

 

I have even done entire pages of MUS with her, working the first half of the page myself, with her watching, and taking her step-by-step through each problem on the rest of the page.

 

Best of luck to you and your daughters!

[plimsoll]

You may also want to take a look at Saxon. Saxon is extremely repetitive ("spiral") and provides constant reinforcement and review.

[KathyBC]

Yahtzee is excellent for the lower times tables and adding, too.

[kiana]

One of the things that really helps me when I'm incredibly far behind (with anything, not just school) is drawing up a plan for catching up and completion. Perhaps making out a few possible plans or using the ones the lovely ladies here have already posted, showing them to her as a possibility ... getting her involved somehow might help?

[Pamela H in Texas]

getting her involved somehow might help?

 

OH definitely. Ask her to come up with a couple ideas. You present a few ideas. Then together you work through what would be best. It's good problem-solving training also. But a teen should definitely give input (though mom will have final say).

[Sweetpetunia]

I said two things then kept adding to it. LOL!

 

 

LOL! I didn't even notice that. I guess it's because that's something I'd do myself. :D

[Sweetpetunia]

Have you looked at TouchMath? It is a multisensory program. It is the only thing that got my two oldest to get the math facts/. The kits are expensive but the workbooks are available as singles if you call to order. www.touchmath.com

 

Also, have you looked at life of fred or ChalkDust for your older? They might be worth checking out.

 

Oooh! I'd never heard of Touch Math before. That might help her. Looks interesting. I'll have to spend more time on their site.

 

I'm also looking into Life Of Fred for my oldest. I read a review that mentioned you can get through LOF a bit quicker than other programs and it looks very interesting. I'll take a peek at Chalk Dust too.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Julie