Daisy Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 My DD (4th grader) is taking the 3rd grade placement test for CLE (Christian Light). CLE is spiral and she has always done R&S Math. She is dying. She really struggles with math. Seems she learns something and it falls right back out of her head. We wanted to switch to CLE because I thought the constant review would be good for her and it is consummable (R&S is not!). So she is taking the 3rd grade test. She's never had metric measurment, rounding, decimals, algebra type problems, geometry (beyond basic kindergarten shapes), negative numbers, adding/subtracting fractions, etc. What to do? If she doesn't pass the 3rd grade placement (who knows at this point. All I hear is groaning), should I have her go back an entire year and do 3rd grade NOW? Should I forget about trying to switch? She would be devastated to be doing 3rd grade math. I feel like I've failed her. She has a good grasp on basic concepts like equivilent fractions, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Well first CLE math is quite a bit ahead then many math programs. Especially Rod and Staff's. You haven't failed her , just this curriculum has a different scope and sequence. I'll quote one thing from a CLE rep that is on a yahoo group. The 'grades' on CLE mean nothing. They are for institutional school use only and Donot,, I repeat, DONOT apply to homeschoolers." So if that is where she needs to start that's where she needs to start. My 9 yr old placed in their first grade program. I pay no attention to the number on the front of the light unit nor to I make a spectical of it either. If my daughter ever did say anything I would just tell her its the first level of the books. I wouldn't tell her its first grade or anything of the sort. Just its a level and that is where she placed. My math excellent daughter who is doing prealgebra with her cyberschool placed in CLE's 4th grade math. She isn't using CLE but I wanted to see where she would place if I do use it with her next year. Again , I repeat , she wouldn't be doing 3rd grade over again. Just using the third level of CLE math. Just for the record most children place about a year behind in math in their program if they didn't start out with CLE math to begin with. Don't worry , really. If she needs a spiral program then go for it. It doesn't do you any good to continue on with a program that isn't working for her. It will only hurt her when she gets to upper level math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samba Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Daisy, DD9 is in BJU Math 5 and we have added CLE for review and spiral practice this year. I ordered CLE 4 and it was too much review, not necessary ( I did this based on what I had heard about CLE being a year ahead). I then ordered the CLE 5th grade and it is just right. The topics and levels are lining up almost perfectly. My point is...the placement test is not very helpful, imo. I would order the grade you are working at and try it (even if it isn't a good fit right now it will be eventually. If it is too hard, then order units in the lower level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 It's available here: http://www.clp.org/product/scope_and_sequence_elementary_1711 (click the link in the box that says "Samples and Files." The first Light Unit of every level is a review of the previous year, so it's possible to go through that and bring your child up to speed if the gap isn't too great and/or the placement test came out just below a level. That said, when we switched, I just used the scope-and-sequence and put my oldest back to the beginning of the grade that he was already in (we switched from halfway through RightStart E in January, going from RightStart E to CLE Math 4). The following year I switched my younger one after she completed RightStart B, and she went right into CLE Math 2. I didn't do the placement test at all, but just looked at the S&S. HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 DD9 is in BJU Math 5 and we have added CLE for review and spiral practice this year. I ordered CLE 4 and it was too much review, not necessary ( I did this based on what I had heard about CLE being a year ahead). I then ordered the CLE 5th grade and it is just right. The topics and levels are lining up almost perfectly. My point is...the placement test is not very helpful, imo. I would order the grade you are working at and try it (even if it isn't a good fit right now it will be eventually. If it is too hard, then order units in the lower level. :iagree: We have been trying out CLE LU 308 for a month, a little break from Abeka 3 Lesson 63?. Although there are some concepts she hasn't seen, they are not particularly difficult things or hard to catch up on because there is just so very much review. I didn't have dd do the diagnostic test. I used the scope and sequence to judge, and now I think I could have placed her higher. The first Light Unit of every level is a review of the previous year, so it's possible to go through that and bring your child up to speed if the gap isn't too great and/or the placement test came out just below a level. :iagree: This might be a good way to go, or at least try. That way your dd can pick up the little things that CLE is full of like room temperature in F and C, the weight of a brick, and stuff like that.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 24, 2008 Author Share Posted December 24, 2008 She did half of section 300 today. I just checked the work and she got them ALL right. So what in the world is all the drama about. I know she is guessing a bit because she hasn't been TAUGHT the concept. But she is proving that she is capable of viewing it as a puzzle to solve and taking a stab at it. UUGh, I get so tired of the hysterics. I think I'll probably order the 400 LU's and get her started in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tami Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 I would go ahead and place her in Level 3. We work a level "behind" in CLE math, and it's been plenty meaty for my dd! Overplacement will cause you to hate this program. It's extremely important to place correctly so that you and your daughter will enjoy CLE! All publishers are different in their scope and sequence, and CLE math is challenging. With overplacement, it will go from challenging to frustrating. And yes, I would start at the beginning, since concepts are reviewed. If you start in Unit 304, and concepts from 302 & 303 are reviewed, it could lead to frustration. Start at the beginning of level 3, and simply move quickly, stopping where you find gaps. Good luck to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeinfl Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 second grade CLE math teacher's manuals and I can definitely attest that this is way more than Rod and Staff, but I noticed that a lot of what they have on workbook pages, Rod and Staff teaches in the oral class time. This is why it's so important not to skip the oral class time of Rod and Staff. Anyway, I've digressed. What I was originally going to say is that yes, most students place a year or two behind what their grade levels are, so don't stress about it and go ahead and place her where she placed and it will all even itself out soon enough. My friend also informed me that the pace slows down considerably after the third grade, so you could place here where she placed and then retest her at the end of the year since there is so much review, she might just place higher for next year. HTH, Dee in Sunny FL! (posting on Chrismtas day because everyone is playing with toys and the house is soooo quiet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 25, 2008 Author Share Posted December 25, 2008 She finished the 300 level diagnostic and only got 3 wrong. I ordered the 400 level LU's yesterday. Sigh. If I need to we can bump it down. I'll look at it when it gets here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 We are finishing up our first full week with CLE 4th grade math and I want to thank you all for your advice earlier. I wasn't sure which level to put my daughter (4th grader) in. She struggled through the diagnostic 300 test but scored 100%. I think she was just freaking out about the test. So I bought the 4th grade book. I skipped 401 after looking at it and put her right into 402. She is doing great! Loving math. Asking to do it first everyday. The few concepts (metric system, geometry) she hadn't had yet in R&S, she's picking up quickly. What a nice change from all the drama we were experiencing! So now both of my kiddos are using CLE (Christian Light Education) Math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveBaby Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 That is good to know! We are using R&S right now, but I'm afraid that the text in 3rd is going to throw them for a loop. I've been looking at CLE for my kids. Is it very teacher intensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I'm glad to hear you're happy with CLE. Thanks for the update! I finally made my own decision last week to go ahead with CLE math after our one month trial went so well. We can be CLE math pals.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Dd doesn't want to switch to anything else EVER, she said! And she is not math-y. We are in the 3rd grade book. She does it all pretty independently. Sometimes I will go over the new teaching with her if it's a heavy concept, but they dole out new concepts in such nice bite-size pieces that she's almost always able to understand it on her own. I did ask other people about the older grades before I bought it, and they said that even at that level, the dc can pretty much pick up most of it from the teaching in the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 I'm afraid that the text in 3rd is going to throw them for a loop. Unfortunately, this is when we started having problems. They introduce multiplication and division right along side each other and my DD just wasn't memorizing her facts. We stopped and put in the extra time and supplimented with Times Tales and that helped us over that hurdle. The other issue is simply that it is nonconsummable and it takes time to copy the problems even if you only do half. When we did half problems she wasn't getting enough practice. By 4th grade, she was totally frustrated. CLE appears to be FAR less teacher intensive then R&S. I was spending tons of time on oral drills, etc. with R&S. So far so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 We can be CLE math pals Hooray!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveBaby Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Unfortunately, this is when we started having problems. They introduce multiplication and division right along side each other and my DD just wasn't memorizing her facts. We stopped and put in the extra time and supplimented with Times Tales and that helped us over that hurdle. The other issue is simply that it is nonconsummable and it takes time to copy the problems even if you only do half. When we did half problems she wasn't getting enough practice. By 4th grade, she was totally frustrated. CLE appears to be FAR less teacher intensive then R&S. I was spending tons of time on oral drills, etc. with R&S. So far so good. This is good to know. It's not that I don't want to spend time, but with keeping up w/ 4, somethings gotta give, KIWM? I need something that I can go over w/ them if there is a problem, questions, etc., but not something that I have to be there for every step of the lesson! I also really like how the light units have the flashcard drill built into them w/ exactly what the student should be doing. That is something that despite my best efforts just seems to get lost in the shuffle. I like that the burden of responsibility is laid on the studen. Plus, she and my DS can do the flashcards w/ each other. I think it will both help them sharpen the sword (and I can keep up w/ my 4yo and toddler!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorothy Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I like R&S a lot but DO NOT like the copying over of problems AT ALL. Do the dc do problems in workbooks? What would I need to buy? I have a dd in 5th and another in 3rd. I had to start copying over for the 3rd grader because it took SO VERY LONG for her to copy everything down. My 5th was making mistakes in copying so she was getting problems wrong even though she had done them correctly. :o( How do I place them? How do I see samples? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIch elle Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 You can place your dc at their grade level with CLE but they will have things in CLE math that haven't been covered yet in R&S. Just go over those things slowly and they'll be fine. Have your dc write in the R&S math 3 book. There is enough room for most problems and those that don't have them write on paper. Join the CLE families yahoo group to see samples in the photos section of the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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