Anxiety through the roof, I don't think we are moving

[DawnM]

The end of the due diligence period ends tomorrow.   We are supposed to close on the 10th of Oct.   

We have started negotiations for repairs.   They are demanding upgrades and repairs before they move in.   Our feeling is, we don't pay for upgrades, and you do the work with the credits we give you whenever you like.   They want the ducts cleaned out and a moisture barrier put under the house to prevent mold due to the wife's health issues.   The cost on that is $7,000.   With our luck, we will pay for it and they will walk away anyway.   We are not getting stuck with that bill!   The report for mold said something along the lines of "minimal mold spores detected" and they freaked out.   That is typical in a NC home.   We can remove whatever is there for about $1000 or so.   That is all we are willing to do.

And now we have found out that my dad's apartment that we spent so much on a couple of years ago?   Well, the contractor never pulled the proper permits so now the county is saying we can't sell without permits.   We trusted him.   He owns his own company so not sure how far we will get with this.   He doesn't respond to my requests.   ARGH!~

We are not sure if we should keep packing and putting things in storage or if we should just stop packing.   I am SO DONE with everything and DH and I are just at the "just end this, don't care how at this point."   

We have already put in so much to get the house ready, etc.....not sure if we should relist it after we fix what we are willing to fix, and use the new realtor, or just fold in the towel and stay where we are.   

This has been a nightmare!

[Katy]

I’m so sorry that does sound like a nightmare. 

And wth are they thinking, living in the humid South if she’s got so many issues with mold? She should be in a desert if it’s that dire. 

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

I’m so sorry that does sound like a nightmare. 

And wth are they thinking, living in the humid South if she’s got so many issues with mold? She should be in a desert if it’s that dire. 

They are currently in Arizona.   They should stay.

[Jaybee]

I am so sorry. This whole thing has been so crazy.

[wintermom]

That is so stressful! So sorry you are going through this. I'm sure the new buyers are stressing as well. Is it possible to extend the closing date so that at least the time pressure is removed? 

[DawnM]

2 minutes ago, wintermom said:

That is so stressful! So sorry you are going through this. I'm sure the new buyers are stressing as well. Is it possible to extend the closing date so that at least the time pressure is removed? 

Yes, although that just prolongs the agony and they are still demanding we pay $7k before they move in.   They seem quite jittery and my guess is the longer we stretch this, the more chances for them to bail.

 

[Kassia]

I'm sorry, too.  This has been so frustrating and stressful.  😞 

[TheReader]

oh my word. I am so sorry. 

I hope there's resolution with the contractor; what a mess. 😞 

[DawnM]

Realtor said she will get an inspector out to get a permit pulled since our contractor is no longer responding to us.

She is also going to find out if we can get mold removal without the moisture barrier put in before we move in.

[Spryte]

I’m so sorry. What a nightmare this has been.

[Scarlett]

This is right up there with craziest real estate story ever. 

[Frances]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

I’m so sorry that does sound like a nightmare. 

And wth are they thinking, living in the humid South if she’s got so many issues with mold? She should be in a desert if it’s that dire. 

Honestly, these kind of people scare me and I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to come after @DawnMlater for anything about the house she becomes convinced is making her sick, regardless of the reality.

[prairiewindmomma]

Is your realtor being helpful with the negotiations?

Put down a 6mil barrier in your crawl space if this is what you are dealing with. That is standard, and it should be about $1/sq foot. Going beyond that should be the buyer’s choice. If she has special needs, she is welcome to address that on her own. Likewise, a basic duct cleaning is above and beyond, but should be only $500ish. 
 

They sound pushy, and your realtor should be helping you push back. It’s super normal to have someone ask for the sky and for you to have some realistic boundaries to that. 
 

As to you not verifying permits had been pulled, well, yeah, that is on you, but it’s easily fixed. Have it inspected and permitted. (And know in the future that you should keep copies of all permits. Electrical usually stay in the box, and the others should be kept in a binder with receipts.)

This should all still come together, and your realtor should be reassuring you that this is all in the range of normal.

[prairiewindmomma]

Also, turn your contractor in to the licensing board for not pulling permits. That’s terrible.

[prairiewindmomma]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

I’m so sorry that does sound like a nightmare. 

And wth are they thinking, living in the humid South if she’s got so many issues with mold? She should be in a desert if it’s that dire. 

Maybe it’s a job relo? We deal with air quality issues with our relos, but it’s always been on us to pull and replace flooring, clean ducts, run filters and dehumidifiers, and use moisture meters to check for leaks, etc. 

We’ve only walked from one house ever, and that was because there was a massive undisclosed leak and seller wouldn’t work with us on repairs. I found out from our realtor that the next buyer paid $80k for repairs, but did so because a custody decree required he lived within 5 miles of his kids. 🤷‍♀️ Nearly every house will have a buyer, price and negotiations will sort it out.

[I talk to the trees]

That sounds like a nightmare! Moving without complications is a PITA at best, but with everything you have dealt with, I’m not surprised you want to call it a day! I am so sorry you’re dealing with all this garbage!

[ScoutTN]

I am so sorry for all the chaos and hassle! I would be seriously tempted to punt and start over next spring with a different realtor.

[Katy]

I think I would insist on speaking to your realtor’s broker. Your realtor clearly cannot be trusted. Say no to all of this, it isn’t standard or reasonable in your area. And frankly minimal mold spores is the best you could hope for in the entire region. Anything less would be a total scam in an area with that much forest and humidity. 
 

If they bail, they bail. You don’t have a place to move to anyway. 

[Katy]

This reminds me…. My dad’s hunting cabin had a partial sheet of plastic under the crawl space that got covered in mold. It wasn’t meant to be a moisture barrier. Someone had just thrown it under there to quickly clean the place up. Maybe it was extra tyvek, idk. But we found it chasing a kitten someone had dumped. And it had nasty, terrible smelling mold so bad we got a trailer to haul it to the dump instead of putting it in the back of the truck.

It’s hard to imagine simple plastic painters tarp is effective at anything regarding mold prevention. If it’s a humid dark area it will mildew just as fast as a damp shower curtain. 

[DawnM]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Is your realtor being helpful with the negotiations?

Nope, she is pressuring us to give in.   She wants her commission.

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Put down a 6mil barrier in your crawl space if this is what you are dealing with. That is standard, and it should be about $1/sq foot. Going beyond that should be the buyer’s choice. If she has special needs, she is welcome to address that on her own. Likewise, a basic duct cleaning is above and beyond, but should be only $500ish. 

We just don't have time.   AND the buyers are asking for a receipt for it to be done professionally.   The quote is $7,500
 

They sound pushy, and your realtor should be helping you push back. It’s super normal to have someone ask for the sky and for you to have some realistic boundaries to that. 
 

As to you not verifying permits had been pulled, well, yeah, that is on you, but it’s easily fixed. Have it inspected and permitted. (And know in the future that you should keep copies of all permits. Electrical usually stay in the box, and the others should be kept in a binder with receipts.)

This should all still come together, and your realtor should be reassuring you that this is all in the range of normal.

I don't know what happened with the permits.   We will just get them, it isn't a huge deal, we just didn't know that the contractor hadn't done his job.

[DawnM]

I am so mad at the realtor that I just sent her a message to please communicate only with my husband from now on.  I am too upset with her, I WILL go off on her and she will just get defensive and never cop to any of her mistakes.   

I can't stand people like that.

[ktgrok]

I'm sorry, but there will be minimal mold spores EVERYWHERE in the south! Like, they are just in the air - indoors and out. I found this which explains how to read mold report if it helps. https://baldeagle.biz/beis-blog/2017/11/3/how-to-interpret-your-mold-air-sampling-results/#:~:text=51-500 spores – Very low,Considered acceptably clean.

[ktgrok]

Also, the buyers are crazy. My mom and dad just bought a house near us, and yes, my mom has concerns about air quality due to her lung transplant. BUT they didn't demand the seller do stuff that they know other buyers won't care about. Instead, they delayed moving in and are having the ceiling painted to seal it (no VOC paint), then having the AC ducts cleaned and some kind of cleaner put in, then replacing the floors (I think that is the order). 

[Faith-manor]

These people should not live in NC. They are nuts. If they live east of the Rockies, and south of the Ohio River Valley, they are going to have mold spores. It just isn't possible to eliminate them. I am flabbergasted that they even think a moisture barrier is the solution if she has such intense issues.

Dawn, could you just stay in one place for a while and let your son use the apartment, try to give him privacy? It seems like you are being hammered on all sides. Maybe think again about listing it in the spring with a new realtor after you have sued the fraud people to get your money back.

[DawnM]

95% of our stuff is in storage.   We aren't leaving it there until Spring and we are not moving it back out.   We are simply DONE.   We will stay in our current house for many more years and enjoy it and just deal with the HOA.   

Our son has moved into grandpa's apartment for the time being and seems ok with it.   

We may figure out a way to put in a "pool house" at some point that would allow him a place to live on his own, but for now, this will work.

This is just so maddening.

And we are taking our huge month long trip to Africa next summer so selling the house has no place in all of that.   DH is an accountant so we couldn't list until after April 15th and then if it takes 50 days to sell, that puts us right in the middle of our trip.   I am leading a group of 20 people so dates cannot be changed, it has all be set.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

12 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

These people should not live in NC. They are nuts. If they live east of the Rockies, and south of the Ohio River Valley, they are going to have mold spores. It just isn't possible to eliminate them. I am flabbergasted that they even think a moisture barrier is the solution if she has such intense issues.

 

They can’t live anywhere with humidity over 40% at any time. It’s not just an issue east of the Rockies. 
 

What I am wondering about is whether OP lives in an area with a building code. Here you must have a class I vapor barrier to be in code. 6 mil polyethylene counts and it’s cheap as heck. I think there’s also a foil product and something else, and you must also meet the ventilation calculations, but this shouldn’t be a deal killer, iykwim. $7500 sounds like full encapsulation which is overkill unless OP has a leaky basement with resulting mold on multiple surfaces.

Sorry it’s been such a mess, Dawn.

[KungFuPanda]

What a soul-sucking, time-consuming, expensive mess. I’m so sorry this happened to you. It’s crazy. I think at this point I’d hunker down and not move for a year just so the realtor can’t get any commission. Let someone competent cash in on your upgrades later on.  I’m so done with her demanding a gazillion dollars every week. 
 

Yes. I’m suggesting not moving for spite. 
 

ETA: I’d be telling Arizona Couple that their regionally unrealistic mold expectations are the last straw that caused you to de-list the house. Also for spite. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by KungFuPanda

[Grace Hopper]

Permits on you, you know that and are fixing it. 
 

Remediation of a severe mold problem would be on you. You don’t have a severe mold problem.

Duct cleaning is something a buyer might opt to do before moving in - totally their choice  I wouldn’t compensate them for that.

A $7K special mold barrier for someone with severe mold allergies? On them. They will have special needs wherever they buy (outside the southwest). 
 

If you’re ready to stay put a while then I’d let this counter offer go with no gives (or very minimal), a cash discount that they can use to take care of whatever they choose to do. I wouldn’t do the work for them. 
 

If they walk away I’d just sit til spring and start over with a new realtor when the timing is good. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[Scarlett]

4 hours ago, Frances said:

Honestly, these kind of people scare me and I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to come after @DawnMlater for anything about the house she becomes convinced is making her sick, regardless of the reality.

This. Exactly.  I remember when my boss was selling his beautiful perfect house for 600K. The first looker made an ‘offer’ which would  have involved him doing something as ridiculous as what Dawns buyers are asking.  He said no and he also said, ‘don’t bring me any more offers from them. That is the kind of buyer who will suck every dime out of you and then also sue you after closing for something stupid.’

[Scarlett]

..wrong thread!

Edited September 28, 2023 by Scarlett

[fraidycat]

I'm sorry.

This has all been such a long, drawn out nightmare.

I agree to not meet their demands. If I was feeling generous, I might offer $500 toward the "repairs" they want.  Basically, force them to walk away so you can concentrate on moving back in and suing the other guy for your money back.

[Frances]

4 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Also, the buyers are crazy. My mom and dad just bought a house near us, and yes, my mom has concerns about air quality due to her lung transplant. BUT they didn't demand the seller do stuff that they know other buyers won't care about. Instead, they delayed moving in and are having the ceiling painted to seal it (no VOC paint), then having the AC ducts cleaned and some kind of cleaner put in, then replacing the floors (I think that is the order). 

This is what responsible people do. Take responsibility for their health concerns and not try to blame others. My MIL did similarly when she bought an older home. Paid for and had the necessary work done to make it healthy for her after she purchased the home and before she moved in.

[Scarlett]

I have a general question…..don’t y’all ever just say no to buyers demands? 
 

I sold a house about 11 years ok and after the inspection the buyers asked for somethings and we just said  ‘no the house is priced accordingly.’  

Edited September 29, 2023 by Scarlett

[mmasc]

3 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

What a soul-sucking, time-consuming, expensive mess. I’m so sorry this happened to you. It’s crazy. I think at this point I’d hunker down and not move for a year just so the realtor can’t get any commission. Let someone competent cash in on your upgrades later on.  I’m so done with her demanding a gazillion dollars every week. 
 

Yes. I’m suggesting not moving for spite. 
 

ETA: I’d be telling Arizona Couple that their regionally unrealistic mold expectations are the last straw that caused you to de-list the house. Also for spite. 

This***I like the way you think!😉😁

[Spryte]

3 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

What a soul-sucking, time-consuming, expensive mess. I’m so sorry this happened to you. It’s crazy. I think at this point I’d hunker down and not move for a year just so the realtor can’t get any commission. Let someone competent cash in on your upgrades later on.  I’m so done with her demanding a gazillion dollars every week. 
 

Yes. I’m suggesting not moving for spite. 
 

ETA: I’d be telling Arizona Couple that their regionally unrealistic mold expectations are the last straw that caused you to de-list the house. Also for spite. 

This. Everything she said.

[Green Bean]

These buyers have no clue about southern weather. They are nuts! Let them walk, move back in, and sue the heck out of your realtor, the other guy, the broker, whoever you can for a million dollars to compensate you for your time, all that staging furniture, the costs to store your things, emotional anguish, their fraud, and stupidity. Then get your neighbor who built their driveway on your land to either pay you for it or hire a wreaking crew to smash their driveway up that's on your land. Build your son a nice "pool house" with your settlement.

I'm not feeling nice tonight.

[KidsHappen]

Your story has really helped us come to peace with the idea of staying put as long as possible. We just aren't up to these kind of crazy shenanigans. Plus my middle dd is going back to college (to get a degree in Graphic Design which she should have got in the first place) and will be moving back home again for the next three years so the house will be full again for the foreseeable future and my health is looking better than expected so I should be able to manage the stairs for awhile longer. This will give us a long period of time to fix the few things that need fixing and do some updates and then once all the kids are gone we can downsize to a much smaller (and hopefully cheaper) house. 

[Pawz4me]

10 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I have a general question…..don’t y’all ever just say no to buyers demands? 
 

I sold a house about 11 years ok and after the inspection the buyers asked for somethings and we just said  ‘no the house is priced accordingly.’  

Yes, saying no to buyer demands is common. Generally it's a bit of a back-and-forth negotiation, just like settling on a selling price. And it's still very much a seller's market now, so I wouldn't hesitate to push back some. I think buyer's expect at least some negotiation, or the seller refusing to do some things. Any good real estate agent would school their clients about that.

[teachermom2834]

As far as buyer’s demands - I think when you get to the last week or two before closing people are often so invested and exhausted they aren’t going to walk away from a sale over a couple thousand dollars. We figured when we were selling ours that it was priced accordingly for cosmetic stuff and general upgrades it would need but that we would need to do something after the inspection with the long list of issues that would inevitably be found on an inspection of a 50+ year old house. Our house had no ventilation in the bathrooms so we were not surprised that they found mold and moisture resulting from that. The buyers had offered us $1000 over asking and then asked $3000 for repairs after inspection. We were happy to credit that back to them to get it done and glad they didn’t ask for anything else.

On our purchase we had an inspection that yielded no major issues just a long list of minor ones and a couple that appeared minor but needed more investigation but we were trying to move very quickly and needed to just get it done. We asked for the same $3000 to cover what we needed to have done and the sellers agreed readily. So in our market people were just expecting a little bit to get the sales done but buyers weren’t asking for the moon and sellers were willing to give a little to get a sale done when the offer had been good to start with and all parties had been acting reasonably through the process.

Our last sale wanted lots of little things done- actually completed not just given money for- that were silly. Like it was a 50 yo house that was 2100 sq ft being sold for $150,000. Obviously it was not going to be in new condition. They wanted things like the handle on the dishwasher had a crack in it they wanted fixed. I would have done a lot to get that home sold because we were in crisis but that was so silly. Like I would have bought them a new dishwasher before trying to figure out how to fix the crack in the lever handle on the cheap dishwasher. We said no that is dumb (to that and some other dumb stuff while fixing some bigger things)and the sale went through.

There are people that think in negotiations you just start by asking for everything. In both our sale and purchase this time there wasn’t alot of back and forth on anything because all offers and requests were just fair and reasonable and agreeable. So I’m kind of the mind of going in with something they are likely to accept without alot of back and forth while I know other people insist on starting out asking for everything. 

[DawnM]

Ok, I let my DH deal with the realtor last night.   Since the buyers are 3 hours behind us the counter came in around 8pm.   We are going to agree to some of it and then will counter with a few things that I think, from what their realtor said, they will agree to.

It is giving in a little more than we want but after DH and my discussion last night we came to the conclusion that we aren't going to go through all of this again any time soon.   We too are very invested with all the time and money we put into this.

We will still walk away with a large profit on our house and be able to move forward with our financial goals.

But one demand we are not agreeing to is that we will fix everything in the inspection of the contractor's work without any consideration of cost.    We are pulling the permit today and booking a county inspector who will prob not come until late next week.

We will sign a firm offer after that if it comes back ok.

So, we aren't dead in the water yet......roller coaster ride.

[Scarlett]

((((Hugs)))) Dawn, this is so so stressful.

[Vintage81]

Hugs Dawn...I hope the buyers agree to these terms and you guys can move forward. 

[DawnM]

It looks like we have reached a financial agreement.   We are in lower than we wanted but we also have to remember that we are still netting a huge gain, so we agreed.

DH pulled the permit Friday and inspectors are coming Monday.   Provided there are no issues with the inspection, I think we are moving forward and will close on either the 10th or 13th.   They had wanted to move it to the 13th to allow inspection and repair but I don't think it will be necessary.   We will see.

I just want this to BE OVER!

[DawnM]

Today's update.

Inspector came out and said that since our contractor didn't pull a permit, we have to get something called a MEG test done for the electrical stuff he put in.

We are supposed to have agreed on a contract by Friday at 5pm but I think that may get pushed back.

If we have to do costly repairs, we are DONE.   

Edited October 2, 2023 by DawnM

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

My husband is a contractor. I am absolutely flabbergasted that your contractor didn’t pull the permits.

i am sorry about all of this.

[prairiewindmomma]

A Meg/Megger test to test the insulation resistance? They put a DC through the breaker when the circuit breaker is closed to measure the voltage drop?

If it is low you are still going to want to deal with that…especially if you have GCFIs.

I get that you feel done, and you are free to take it off the market, but it sounds like the inspector is doing his/her job.

 

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

A Meg/Megger test to test the insulation resistance? They put a DC through the breaker when the circuit breaker is closed to measure the voltage drop?

If it is low you are still going to want to deal with that…especially if you have GCFIs.

I get that you feel done, and you are free to take it off the market, but it sounds like the inspector is doing his/her job.

 

I never said he wasn't doing his job!   The contractor didn't do his job!

The other option is to cut a hole in the drywall where the electrical was put in and patch it back up, more work, but less $$.

Edited October 2, 2023 by DawnM

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

My husband is a contractor. I am absolutely flabbergasted that your contractor didn’t pull the permits.

i am sorry about all of this.

I just sent him another email and told him that we are expecting him to stand by his work, otherwise we will need to ensure this doesn't happen to anyone else and report him to the state licensing board.   Never mind all the reviews I plan to write.

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

I never said he wasn't doing his job!   The contractor didn't do his job!

The other option is to cut a hole in the drywall where the electrical was put in and patch it back up, more work, but less $$.

Dawn, I think you misread my intent.  What I meant is that the inspector is being thorough. A megger test is the right way to go if the inspector thinks there may be water infilitration into the electrical, like if the contractor f-d up the install in the bathroom and didnt properly insulate the lines.  I just piped in and mentioned the megger test because it seemed like you werent familiar with it because you called it by the wrong name. I was trying to reassure you that the inspector was requiring the right thing and that a low megger test was something you shouldnt ignore even if you pull the house and dont sell. If he is offering to let you just open up the walls, that could be good too. 

I’m going to bow out of your thread now. Best wishes with whatever you decide to do.

 

[DawnM]

I don't know what my husband worked out with the realtor last night but we have an electrician coming out today and they may take apart a small area of drywall to look and see if they think it is up to code and then get the inspector back out.   We will pay someone to fix the drywall at a couple hundred vs. the 2,500.

This is provided there are no actual issues.

Fun times to be had by all around here.