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Any family advise.... I feel so hurt and confussed ... help please... warning LONG!


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I need some advise or to hear others experiences or to just vent.... i am so lost and upset right now..... my husband and I have been having issues with his brother and sister in law for a while now and it has been eating my up inside......

 

Here is a VERY short description of much more complex issues.... About 2 years ago we moved to be closer to my husbands family (we thought this would be good for our daughter- to see her cousin more- and my dh parents too) She (my dd) was extremely close to my nephew (who is also and only and 3 years older then her) After we moved in, my nephew was spending the night and I overheard the kids in her room playing with her doll house.... He was telling her how to make them "have s*x" (not that that is a bad work but i'm not sure if i should type it out on here) I immediately asked them to come down stairs and got them involved in something else..... I them called my SIL and told her about it (at this time I considered her a best friend) she was very responsive and told me that my BIL was on is way to pick him up ( the kids didn't know that this was going on or that I heard what was said) ......

 

After I talked with my dd about it and told her that that was something for her to learn when she is much older and it was something to only discuss with us..... (She had only JUST turned 6 at this time) She was fine with that and we moved on.... However afterward I found out that when she went over their house that my SIL was trying to create secrets with my dd (innocent ones like boys and such) but i think it is strange to keep secrets with children...... (again she was only 5 at that time) But anyhow my dd told me about alot of things that my nephew was doing (like taking a real sword off the wall and swinging them at her - my BIL collects them and displays them in his basement where the kids played)

 

My biggest problem is I really didn't want to explain why these things are wrong to my SIL. I really didn't want to hurt her feeling or start anything...... however a couple weeks later she wanted my dd to spend the night again and I tried to give a "hint" that that was not a good idea but she kept pushing so i told her that I didn't think that it was a good idea for a while and she went off..... telling me her son never lies, that "boys will be boys" , etc.. etc.... I really maintained my cool (which i normally NEVER do)!

However her and her husband went off on my dh and called us all sorts of things and told my MIL all kinds of crazy UNTRUE stuff..... she totally believes them .... (thats another story all together) .....

 

So fastforward ...... that was a year and a half ago... we have not talked with them since (we used to get together at least once a week) besides an evening we went over for a wake for my SIL father who had passed away....

 

a couple of days ago my MIL sent both my dh, myself , my SIL and BIL the same letter about how we are never going to be forgiving by God and that we should forgive because he forgave us of our sins..... about how we need to "grow up" and so on and so on... (honestly it was a nasty letter) She also mentioned how we need to do this for her "grandchildren" however to be truthful she doesn't even "know" my dd... she has never spent time with her or talks to her or anything a "normal" grandparent does........

 

My biggest issue is that I LOVE my nephew dearly and it kills me that i can't see him.... I know he didn't do anything wrong..... my issue is NOT him but all the lies his parents tell and the fact that they just don't care... (they have said this on more then one occasion)......

 

How can i forgive someone who doesn't even care? Do i move on? Do i fix it? Again, there are MANY more things that go into this.... but this way the thing that started it all...... I also know that this has been taring my dd apart... my nephew was her best friend.....

 

But even if i were to forgive them... they dont want anything to do with us..... this is not how I wanted my dd to grow up and it crushes me .... i am poring my eyes out as i type this.... i also lost my "best friend" and "sister" i thought i could trust her with anything.... i found out she was talking behind my back and telling lies too........ What should i do? Anyone else not have good experiences with family.....?:(

 

Kate

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Kate, I'm so so sorry that this is happening in your family. You are not alone. Many people have posted similar things in their families too and it hurts.

 

My advice: ignore your MIL. Her letter sounds manipulative and is not true Biblically.

 

For you to be able to have a healthy relationship with your BIL and SIL you would all have to agree on some real basic boundaries and rules. NO SECRETS! would be at the top of the list. In light of the past history I would also start with visits only at your home or at their home with you present - there are too many red flags in the past - poor supervision, precocious sexual talk from the nephew, disrespect of you and your dh's feelings, values and role as parents.

 

I'm really sorry about your nephew but his behavior sends up red flags for me as well (most 8 year olds don't initiate sex play with dolls at least in the circles I've been in - both secular and Christian). His swinging a sword at your dd seems like he might be a bit out of control and impetuous as well. I'm not saying he should be shunned for that! And if you and your SIL and BIL had a good relationship he could be appropriately supervised. But if he was acting that way 1 1/2 years ago - I'm suspecting that his behavior is probably worse - if only because he is absorbing the norms and standards of his mom and dad. My real point in all this is that your first responsibility is to protect your dd (morally, spiritually, physically).

 

I know your heart is breaking. I'm not sure your beliefs but if you pray, I'd pray for them. You can forgive someone (not making them "pay" for what they did) but you must also be wise and discerning - if their weakness puts you and your family at risk, you need to protect your family and your own heart first. I'll be praying for you.

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I think Jean has given you some good advice. We have been in this type of situation with my husband's family. It went on for a LONG time. It was bad. Finally, dh talked to his family and gave them our "list of demands" (so to speak). They didn't agree. We have not spoken with any of them in the past nearly four years. Our lives are peaceful and darma-free. Dh will say the same thing - I've always left it up to him. If he wants contact with his family, fine. If not, that's fine too. When this all happened, our older three boys were old enough to discern for themselves what was going on and they were very happy to have some distance from it. My youngest, well, he missed all the drama and manipulation and meanness and he's that much the better for it.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. It's really, really, really hard to be forced into such a situation. Like I said above, I very much agree with Jean about your nephew's behavior. Trust your gut and protect your dd.

 

(((())))

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I'm going through something with my family, too, which is why I read your post.

 

Jean had some very wise advice. You must absolutely set boundaries IF there's to be any involvement. And perhaps there ought not to be.

 

Poor, poor boy. Can there be contact with him and ONLY him, somehow? Something like what Jean said.

 

What I've learned about forgiveness is this: Take what makes sense to you and leave the rest. I have no "corner" on forgiveness!

 

1) you can forgive someone and still be unable to trust them. (Being able to trust someone depends on how they behave--and that's out of your hands).

 

2) You can forgive someone and still have very little to do with them. (Again, if they infringe on your boundaries and break promises or are otherwise toxic, that too is out of your hands).

 

3) sometimes you can only forgive with God's help. In many many instances, it is not something I can do at all by my own strength and will.

 

4) You can forgive and still grieve the loss of the relationship.

 

5) You know you have forgiven when

a) you do not have to have the last word--

b) they don't have any power over you anymore. Part of that, of course, is realising, that I am responsible for the choices I made as a result of the injury I suffered--not them. But, honestly, that came years and years down the road after I'd prayed to forgive. It's a process and it's not overnight.

 

6) Only God forgives utterly and completely and absolutely--and he does. (Thank you Lord).

 

<<hugs>>

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I'll echo what others have said ~ particularly Alana's comments regarding forgiveness. I think it's very important, regardless of whether or not you seek to renew a relationship with these people, that you reach a point of forgiveness. Not doing so is too burdensome on you; forgiving is freeing. But again, as Alana said, forgiveness is not necessarily on par with renewed trust and contact. I think were I in your shoes I would (together with your husband) speak directly with your sil and bil. I would try to set the record straight, hear and be heard, and (if you want to renew contact) establish boundaries. It is up to them whether they accept those boundaries.

 

I'm sorry you're dealing with it, Kate. I have some serious dysfunction in my own family, having been abused as child by my brother-in-law, that has resulted in broken relationships. It's not easy, I know.:(

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Family spats are bad and it looks like your MIL is fed up with the bickering. This could be an opportunity to mend fences.

 

For myself, I wouldn't even be taking to my dad now if I hadn't forgiven him for some things he use to do. I wouldn't be posting on a board full of Christians if I hadn't come to peace with a very sore, angry period in my life. An old High Schoo friend the same.

 

You've got an opportunity to get together with family... it's not something to just ignore and brush of your MIL. You should be honest with yourself about what role you played in this, was it really all your SIL's fault. Also what exactly did she say about you and was it really all untrue or just a miunderstanding?

 

Fine I disagree with everyone again ... I'm use to it.

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How can i forgive someone who doesn't even care? Do i move on? Do i fix it? Again, there are MANY more things that go into this.... but this way the thing that started it all...... I also know that this has been taring my dd apart... my nephew was her best friend.....

 

But even if i were to forgive them... they dont want anything to do with us..... this is not how I wanted my dd to grow up and it crushes me .... i am poring my eyes out as i type this.... i also lost my "best friend" and "sister" i thought i could trust her with anything.... i found out she was talking behind my back and telling lies too........ What should i do? Anyone else not have good experiences with family.....?:(

 

Kate

 

Many people over the eons have had to forgive people who don't care, or would possibly never care. It is a supernatural, spiritual thing to do, and if you ask God to help you with this, He will.

 

Mt. 18 talks about what to do if someone has offended you. Perhaps this is something you'd want to pursue, with your husband? The key is gentleness and humility - having a calm tone, but being honest. And if your SIL decides to be nasty about it, then so be it. You did your best to try to mend things.

 

I like to look at Jesus as an example of one who forgave (and still does). Even when tortured and on the cross, he asked God to "forgive them, for they know not what they do". Remember that? Amazing. Even in Colossians 3, we're admonished to "forgive as the Lord forgave us".

 

That being said, forgiving doesn't mean everything will be as it was, and that there won't be consequences reflected in a relationship. It would be unwise to act as if nothing happened - that's why I recommend going face to face, and trying to talk it out privately, you & your husband, and the other couple. It may be that the Lord is working in their hearts, too. If they don't receive you or continue to act nasty, then it's perfectly fine to limit contact, not out of spite but out of wisdom. This doesn't mean you haven't forgiven them for their nastiness.

 

I'll be praying on this end, that you see glimmers of hope and that you have the courage to forgive. Remember, whatever a person sows that too he/she reaps. God saw all that happened, and there are consequences that He can & does apply that we many never know about, but He is faithful.

 

May God bless you with peace as you walk through this difficult time.

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I'm going through something with my family, too, which is why I read your post.

 

Jean had some very wise advice. You must absolutely set boundaries IF there's to be any involvement. And perhaps there ought not to be.

 

Poor, poor boy. Can there be contact with him and ONLY him, somehow? Something like what Jean said.

 

What I've learned about forgiveness is this: Take what makes sense to you and leave the rest. I have no "corner" on forgiveness!

 

1) you can forgive someone and still be unable to trust them. (Being able to trust someone depends on how they behave--and that's out of your hands).

 

2) You can forgive someone and still have very little to do with them. (Again, if they infringe on your boundaries and break promises or are otherwise toxic, that too is out of your hands).

 

3) sometimes you can only forgive with God's help. In many many instances, it is not something I can do at all by my own strength and will.

 

4) You can forgive and still grieve the loss of the relationship.

 

5) You know you have forgiven when

a) you do not have to have the last word--

b) they don't have any power over you anymore. Part of that, of course, is realising, that I am responsible for the choices I made as a result of the injury I suffered--not them. But, honestly, that came years and years down the road after I'd prayed to forgive. It's a process and it's not overnight.

 

6) Only God forgives utterly and completely and absolutely--and he does. (Thank you Lord).

 

<<hugs>>

 

I enjoy the wisdom of your post, especially how you can know when you've forgiven someone. Excellent!

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How can i forgive someone who doesn't even care? Do i move on? Do i fix it? Again, there are MANY more things that go into this.... but this way the thing that started it all...... I also know that this has been taring my dd apart... my nephew was her best friend.....

 

Kate

 

Webster's says to forgive (aside from, say, forgive a debt) is to no longer feel any resentment towards....

 

Hey, I'd never looked it up. That's not so tough. I think you are adding in "and be friendly with them again". Not always possible or even wise. In a "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas" world, all family members are reasonable. Or even just polite. These are not grownup or polite people and they reacted with hurt and lashings out that their child may not be perfect (like any are) and that they therefore may not be perfect. My wisdom on this is that some people are raised that correction is painful, emotional, vindictive, and never let to die. They react with daggers at any sign of "disloyalty". Mature people take the source and the comment and either dismiss it or take the words to heart, and are HAPPY if they can learn something from someone who is just trying to be helpful.

 

Similarly, there are families that pit the children against each other and they grow into adults who seethe when a sib has a success.

 

If I had a cure for this, for making people who never grew up grow up, I'd be richer than Bill Gates. I'm serious!

 

What I would do is 1) control myself, not them

2) start, if you like, some polite (like polite you'd be to a new neighbor) small contact. Birthday card and possibly a very small gift to nephew. Send a note with a clipping about something your SIL is passionately interested in ("I saw this and thought of you"). Try disarming her with a simple call "I was wondering how you were". Will she start to swear and hang up the phone? Or will she be put on reasonable polite behavior because you've been polite. Invite them to a potluck with a few other calm people...or a picnic this summer someplace the kids can swim or run in the woods. Restart, but keep it casual, polite, everyone on respectful behavior. Other people being there can remind people of this.

 

Personally, I'm once bitten thrice shy, but just because you can't work back to seeing each other weekly doesn't mean there should be, as I call it, el silencio. Only wade into the water as far as it is pleasant, and go slowly. If they rebuff even politeness, put up a sign in your bathroom for a few months: Be glad it didn't get uglier.

 

We had a woman kill her family up here after years of resentment. A massacre. Ugh.

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What should i do? Anyone else not have good experiences with family.....?:(

 

I don't have time to read the other posts right now, so this is just my take on your post.....

 

Can you move? You moved to be closer to this family and it's not working out. At all. It's toxic to you and to your dd.

 

What about your family? Would it be worthwhile moving closer to them so your dd can have interaction with grandparents?

 

Or, what about just moving somewhere else and putting down new roots?

 

I know moving isn't fun, but at least it gives you the opportunity of starting over.

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I'm sorry for the family unrest. I have lots of problems with my own, so I can relate. However, one thing leaps out at me in an alarming way. The situation you describe that caused the original problem had your nephew being only 9 when he was depicting s*x with the dolls. That raises red flags in my mind. I personally don't know any children that age that have that explicit an understanding at age 9 except for a family that had suffered from abuse. As much as my heart ached for those children, I had to separate my dd's from them b/c their behavior was much to mature for my innocent babes. These abused girls' verbal/actions regarding intimacy is out of proportion with any other children we know of the same age.

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I do know that is it vital to protect my dd..... i just know that she doesn't quite understand and that she is hurting badly......

 

However to answer some of the questions.....

 

Yes we are in the process of working out to move completely out of state...... however that may take us about a year......

 

My family is just as messed up..... My mom maybe suffering from psychological problems that my brother and I are trying to address..... My father is another story (wasn't there for me as a kid.... etc... etc....) However I am very close to my step father and so is my dd... he will be moving along with us if we decide to move....

 

VOLTY- you asked if it was all my SIL fault...... I am not saying that it was all her fault.....One thing that I regret was that as we were talking on the phone and I was explaining things to her.... she said that my nephew didnt say those things.... and that he never lyes to her.... at that statement i chuckled... not because i think my nephew is a lyer or anything but that i find it very naive to say that a child would NEVER lie to their parent.....

as for my MIL she honestly never sees us or calls or anything with us for it to really be anything to her ----IMHO....and also the things she has said were not any where a misunderstanding.... they were completely false.

 

As for my nephew I know that this "sends up red flags" thats why we are so hurt and worried.... He was told at an early age (i think right before her turned 8) about sex... but not the reproductive part... more of the "this is what adults" do part and how that "he needs to know what he is doing to make his wife happy" I know it sounds real sick.... When she told me this I told her that that was not appropriate to discuss with her... but of course she ignored me and told me that she wanted to make sure he had a "good marriage" and that when i asked what his response to all this was.... she said it grossed him out and he didn't want to talk about it any more --- gee go figure right?

 

Because of your responses I am feeling a little better.... I am understanding that i need to go with my "gut" and the Lord..... I have been praying on this for so long but I feel with the whole family baring down on us that I can't stand up for what i know should be right.....

 

Also my families advise is never the best... they are not exactly open minded about my dh family (they think they are nuts-but so is my family) My family also does not have a Christian perspective (completely the opposite) so that is really no help with my beliefs...

 

thank you all so much!

Kate

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Honestly - I would NEVER let my kid hang out with ANYONE (especially an adult) who wants to influence my dd with "secrets." I have a dear sweet friend (a kid) whose mother hates me for no reason, but I am friends with her father. On one ocassion she said something to me about keeping a secret from her mother because she didn't want her mother to know that she had seen me and loves me. I know her mom is absolutely crazy and I don't like her - HOWEVER - I told Cameron that she should NEVER keep secrets or lie to her mother EVER.

 

In my mind (and god forbid) there could one day be a "secret" that she can't tell her dad but could tell her mom and I would always want her to talk freely to the woman who gave birth to her and is responsible for protecting her.

 

We all desire relationships with our families. Sometimes - it's toxic to do so. Sad but true.

I don't talk to one of my favorite aunts because she is married to a creep I don't trust and she has joined an unhealthy "christian" cult that has her thinking she is perfect and can judge others. The things she says about my mother (and me) are ridiculous and SOOOOO hypocritical. (She actually told my grandmother when I was pregnant that I would sacrifice my baby to the devil). Sure it hurts that she has become a crazy lunatic - but I have a responsibility to show my dd healthy relationships so that hopefully she can grow up and have them herself.

 

Let yourself have a good cry - be sad - mourn the incredible loss and then move on. That sometimes is all you can do.

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When this was told to a friend of mine by someone else I was very resistant to the ideas, but in the long run they turned out to be pearls of wisdom. I can't take credit for it, as it is Biblically based :-) I hope I don't sound to preachy - that is not my intent. The person who spoke with my friend had a gift for expressing things in a way that really let everyone know that it was done with love. Even though I don't know you, please know I am cheering you on the whole way.

 

One thing that stood out to me was the fact that these are your in-laws and you are the one trying to fix things and mend fences. What role is your husband playing in this? Just a question to consider as he is the head of your home, they are his family members by blood and is, therefore, in the position of authority because of both.

 

Are you inadvertently usurping his role as the standard bearer on this issue because of the previously close relationship you had with your sister in law? Same goes when dealing with his mother - it is his mother and he is supposed to cleave to you. Gently hand over the authority and responsibility of this situation to him and encourage him and support him to step up to the plate.

 

I am a very strong and controlling person. I am a fixer and a people pleaser who wants peace. I regularly feel that when peace is not present that I am not doing my job or that it is my fault. There have been many a time that I have or alternatively at least have the strong desire to take the lead away from my husband -or anyone else for that matter ;-} Since I was privy to the information told to my friend, I endeavor to submit to my husband's authority because when I try to take it from him I am, in essence, emasculating him. Too many times men will take a back seat in a situation like this, especially when we as wives are trying to run the program. It can leave them feeling impotent and then they may cease to step up to the plate after a while - and not just on this topic but on others as well. When recognizing this (if this is the case here) then as wives we have to restore the balance.

 

After giving back the authority to our husband, the really hard part comes. We have to follow where we are led, even if we would have taken a different path! Obviously husband and wife should discuss things and women can even encourage a particular approach, but when all is said and done, it should be a unified approach with him presenting it.

 

Start by encouraging or empowering (as the case may be) him to take the reigns and set the boundaries. Let him know how you are feeling and that you long for his leadership and wisdom. What ever happens after that..... give your anger and disappointment to the Lord and focus on your husband and child, knowing that this difficult situation has made the relationship between you and your husband even stronger and that you are protecting your daughter.

 

Best wishes and let us know how things turn out.

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