How much does a 10 year-old need peers?

[3Rivers]

DD would be perfectly happy at home with us, her family, see her cousins here and there and maybe a couple of other people every now and then. She doesn't want or seem to need to make friends. If we attend a park day or other social event, she prefers to sit with me and the other adults and talk.

She is wildly interested in everything horticultural, scientific and basically anything in nature...or whatever else she is intensely involved in at the moment whether it's trying to figure out where to grow a pomegranate tree in the backyard :001_huh: or how to design a cake for someone's birthday...or grow new species of mushrooms, crystals or .....

 

I know she is extremely creative. I'm suspecting that maybe the label of "gifted" fits her, and may be the reason why she just doesn't fit in anywhere or make friends easily.

 

But she's happy.

So, is it a problem that she doesn't make friends and doesn't care?

Will this change on its own, or do I intervene or just....what??

 

Although I deeply relate to her, I struggled through school and managed to have a friend or two and was reasonably liked. DH was more reclusive, but had a big family. We both blossomed more in college, but it wasn't an easy road. I felt like DH and I were so blessed and lucky to find each other. I wonder some times how in the world, if things don't change, will she emerge in the big world socially intact?? But then I spend a day with her apart from my other children and I am enamored with this amazing child, so unique and enjoyable to be with....so do I force her out of her shell into the "cruel world" to get some firsthand experience (beyond her misery of public school, pre-homeschooling days), or just trust that she will also find like-minded people once she has passed through the childhood years and can finally let her hidden "inner adult" out to play with everyone who has finally grown up? ( I know that must sound really weird. I'm trying to put words to my experience and it's a challenge.)

 

 

So, moms who have older kids who have btdt, what do you think?

 

Jamie

[Storm Bay]

She hardly needs them at all compared with what society teaches right now. A great read is Hold on to Your Kids which discusses the pros of children being parent-oriented, not peer-oriented.

[3Rivers]

Very good point. I think I have to "unschool" myself. I think I need to consider why I think it is important for a kid to have friends her own age, and give it some more thought. I guess if the goal is to raise our kids to be able to relate and communicate in the adult world and they are more comfortable in that world already...is that a good thing or a sign of a problem? Common sense makes me think I'm worrying for nothing.

 

Jamie

[stripe]

I have only been there, done that as a child, not as a parent. I think it is important that she has social interactions, not necessarily with peers, but with others. In most cultures, throughout time, people have been more with their own families, and individuals vary in their needs for social interactions, so I don't think it's alarming, especially if she's had bad experiences in the past. I think having an older cousin or much older relative (grandparent or aunt or something) is a nice thing in addition to parents. She could do activities such as, say, visiting with older relatives (or neighbors/community members, if you have no elderly relatives) or helping at an animal shelter, or working on her plot at a community garden, where she is around people of different age groups and talks to them and shares interests with them.

 

What you probably don't want is someone who is totally sheltered, where the only people she sees are totally trustworthy relatives, because the extreme of this is being susceptible to predators or massively socially uncomfortable, and it wouldn't be right for her to think that because some people in the past were rotten to her, that all people are that way. Having some positive experiences with others will help her to realize the joys of friendship or companionship, even if only in small doses.

[3Rivers]

Good. Your comments are very reassuring. I'm not a social butterfly, but I had friends, usually a "best friend" in each grade.

Maybe people think kids need friends their own age because in a school setting if you don't have that you are very alone.

 

I have been concerned that she was socially awkward, but I think it is that she has no concern for social norms that don't appeal to her. She is the type of kid who will strike up a conversation with the cashier at Walmart. The trouble is that she will start telling said cashier all about her dog's new collar that we're buying or the cookies we're going to make when we get home. That's fine with strangers when she is with me, but other kids are brutal if you are too naive, too happy, too interested in something that is not what most kids are interested in. She loves to talk, and doesn't seem to get, or care, that often times she needs to sit back and listen and understand more of what is happening around her in order to "read" the social climate. If that makes any sense. She just plunges forward and is met with a wall of disinterest. However, any time I ask her about it later, thinking she may be hurt by it or affected in some way, she isn't, which surprises me because she is really sensitive and insightful. So I'm thinking...well I guess her self esteem is intact more than I realize or else she is just clueless....I don't know.

 

I have thought for a while that I needed to have her tested to see if there is a "label" to put to her particular kind of social awkwardness but I am avoiding that because after all she does have relationships, and she is happy and thriving. And, now that she is getting older I am able to gently instruct in areas of social interaction at times. Although sometimes I want to say "Honey, just stop talking. Please. You are really embarassing yourself (and me) when you try to make a joke or sarcastic remark that is really not funny ....especially when the nice plumber here would really like to just do his job." But instead I just make a blanket rule: no talking, please, while someone is trying to do a job, and hope that someday social appropriateness will evolve.

 

Although, I'll have to see if i can teach her to recognize the glazed look in people's eyes when she is going on and on about growing quartz crystals and they tuned her out minutes ago. If that can be taught, then I think we are fine. Great, in fact. That would solve a myriad of problems and I don't want to change one little thing about her. If not, then maybe that is something to get some help with....how to read social cues and nonverbal behavior.

 

Anyone know of a good book to read about social skills, social cues, etc.? I adore this kid. I'm living with a cross between a "mad professor" and Julia Child. She is wonderful. Great sense of humor and a wonderful sensitivity to people around her. I just want to make sure I'm doing her justice to prepare her for the real world....making friends and deeper relationships...and hopefully a husband some day if that is the plan for her.

She is my first born so I worry about her more. There is no precedent to compare with. Thanks for attending to my ramblings.

 

Jamie

[PeterPan]

Well I figured your post was going to be just the opposite direction, with an extrovert begging for friends and you deciding how much you needed to cater to it... But since that's obviously not your problem, I say enjoy it and stop worrying! Could be worse, could be the dc is like mine and homeschooled essentially an only (9 1/2 years apart), and such an extrovert that she CRAVES PEOPLE, begs for people, cries for people. I can take her out every day, have her very connected, and it's still not enough. We go to the ice rink and she makes new friends and teaches the littles to skate. She asks to visit the elderly neighbors. She has relationships with great aunts that I don't even keep up with. When I go into town shopping with her, the store clerks know her (not me, just HER), from her chatting with them when she shops with her grandma on Saturday. She's a serious extrovert! And do you know how hard that is to find that line and justify homeschooling an only when she's an extrovert?!? Your dd is clearly an introvert. I'd only be worried if she doesn't extend herself to others when appropriate. Otherwise, enjoy her and stop worrying! :)

[Storm Bay]

Good. Your comments are very reassuring. I'm not a social butterfly, but I had friends, usually a "best friend" in each grade.

Maybe people think kids need friends their own age because in a school setting if you don't have that you are very alone.

 

I have been concerned that she was socially awkward, but I think it is that she has no concern for social norms that don't appeal to her. She is the type of kid who will strike up a conversation with the cashier at Walmart. The trouble is that she will start telling said cashier all about her dog's new collar that we're buying or the cookies we're going to make when we get home. That's fine with strangers when she is with me, but other kids are brutal if you are too naive, too happy, too interested in something that is not what most kids are interested in. She loves to talk, and doesn't seem to get, or care, that often times she needs to sit back and listen and understand more of what is happening around her in order to "read" the social climate. If that makes any sense. She just plunges forward and is met with a wall of disinterest. However, any time I ask her about it later, thinking she may be hurt by it or affected in some way, she isn't, which surprises me because she is really sensitive and insightful. So I'm thinking...well I guess her self esteem is intact more than I realize or else she is just clueless....I don't know.

 

I have thought for a while that I needed to have her tested to see if there is a "label" to put to her particular kind of social awkwardness but I am avoiding that because after all she does have relationships, and she is happy and thriving. And, now that she is getting older I am able to gently instruct in areas of social interaction at times. Although sometimes I want to say "Honey, just stop talking. Please. You are really embarassing yourself (and me) when you try to make a joke or sarcastic remark that is really not funny ....especially when the nice plumber here would really like to just do his job." But instead I just make a blanket rule: no talking, please, while someone is trying to do a job, and hope that someday social appropriateness will evolve.

 

Although, I'll have to see if i can teach her to recognize the glazed look in people's eyes when she is going on and on about growing quartz crystals and they tuned her out minutes ago. If that can be taught, then I think we are fine. Great, in fact. That would solve a myriad of problems and I don't want to change one little thing about her. If not, then maybe that is something to get some help with....how to read social cues and nonverbal behavior.

 

Anyone know of a good book to read about social skills, social cues, etc.? I adore this kid. I'm living with a cross between a "mad professor" and Julia Child. She is wonderful. Great sense of humor and a wonderful sensitivity to people around her. I just want to make sure I'm doing her justice to prepare her for the real world....making friends and deeper relationships...and hopefully a husband some day if that is the plan for her.

She is my first born so I worry about her more. There is no precedent to compare with. Thanks for attending to my ramblings.

 

Jamie

 

I wouldn't worry about labels as they can be very limiting unless there are social behaviours that cause disruptions or extreme discomfort. One book that can help is Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships. While this book is written for parents and professionals who have or work with children with Asperger's or Autism, I have found the last section, where 10 areas of social behaviour that are obvious to most people, but not to all, are written about. Even some kids with no label or need for a label might need to have one or two of those areas spelled out. A child with autism or Asperger's (not all Aspies belong on the autism spectrum according to a couple of experts I met, but this is hotly contested) probably needs help in most or all of them. I have one dd who needs help in two of the ten areas; the others she understands well enough.

[Storm Bay]

I have only been there, done that as a child, not as a parent. I think it is important that she has social interactions, not necessarily with peers, but with others. In most cultures, throughout time, people have been more with their own families, and individuals vary in their needs for social interactions, so I don't think it's alarming, especially if she's had bad experiences in the past.

 

What you probably don't want is someone who is totally sheltered, where the only people she sees are totally trustworthy relatives, because the extreme of this is being susceptible to predators or massively socially uncomfortable, and it wouldn't be right for her to think that because some people in the past were rotten to her, that all people are that way. Having some positive experiences with others will help her to realize the joys of friendship or companionship, even if only in small doses.

:iagree: (with all of the post, but I took out some of it to make it shorter)

[Guest Andrea Scott]

:iagree: (with all of the post, but I took out some of it to make it shorter)

 

you have shoes perfectly..

[3Rivers]

Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships.

 

That's the book I was thinking of, but couldn't remember the title of. Thanks!

 

j

[Starr]

As time goes on you'll find something for her to be involved in that interests her. She'll meet others that have the same interests. She's only ten. :) There are horticulture clubs, 4-H, museum activities... I can't think right now. When you see a potential friend invite them to do something with you. If they are busy doing something they'll have that to talk about and get to know each other. She sounds like a delightful young lady.

[momsquared]

I guess I would consider what the child wants. Peers assumes all friends need to be the same age - as in school. That isn't reality once you leave school.

 

I am amused by this discussion in light of a conversation with my mom lately. My DD (who is 4) was having "a day". Nothing exceptional, but I mentioned it to her and she basically suggested it is because she doesn't go to school or having any friends her age. Um, she has plenty of age mate friends, and I doubt going to school would make her less likely to have a normal 4 year old moment. Geez! :001_huh:

[Penelope]

I don't know about labels or how many friends she needs at this age. I will say that I think at about age 10-11, friendships become important for most girls. Even introverted ones. The friend doesn't have to be exactly the same age, the friend can even be a family member such as a cousin. But I do think it is important to have one or two good friends outside of the family.

 

Park day may not be the best way for an introvert to make a friend, either. Are there other opportunities for small groups of other girls her age? It could be that she would like a friend, but hasn't been able to connect with anyone under the situations that have come up. I think homeschooling can be a blessing for someone who is socially awkward, while also making it more difficult.

 

I don't know how to say this without coming across as a know-it-all, because of course I don't know your daughter. But I think I would be teaching the social skills now, not waiting. I have been working on this with my 6 yo for a while now with reading body language and respecting others personal unspoken boundaries, back-and-forth in a conversation, asking questions about the other person rather than going on and on about something. I have adults in my life like this and I think they were done a disservice by not learning these things in childhood. I think these things are skills. Many people don't need any direct instruction, but some do. I think it is easier to practice when one is younger than once they are teens (and possibly more resistant to parental input as well).

[3Rivers]

Yeah, I agree. I think I'm going to need to teach social skills. I guess I never thought about doing that beyond modeling them, but then I always thought those things are learned intuitively....which simply means that I have not given it enough thought. :tongue_smilie:I guess it's time.

 

I need to pick up that book mentioned in an earlier post and go through some of them with her.

 

Jamie

[Storm Bay]

Yeah, I agree. I think I'm going to need to teach social skills. I guess I never thought about doing that beyond modeling them, but then I always thought those things are learned intuitively....which simply means that I have not given it enough thought. :tongue_smilie:I guess it's time.

 

I need to pick up that book mentioned in an earlier post and go through some of them with her.

 

Jamie

 

 

Yes, many, many people think that modeling social behaviours and learning them intuitively is how it works, so you're not alone! This is why many people just cannot understand why many people act and behave the way they do. My dd is actually reading the book I recommended (Unwritten Rules of Social Behavior by Gandin & Temple) and then we discuss it. This is because she learns so much better if she actually reads it and then we talk about it then if she just talks about it with me. Not that we haven't been working on these things for years, but because she needs more help now that she's functioning in the teen world. Most of these she gets overall, but there are subtle areas we discuss, and then there are two areas we are really going to need to focus on.

 

Once we're done this, I have a Christian based book (but not a scriptural, Bible teaching book, IYKWIM) on how to be friends that is almost a Christian version of Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. However, Carnegie's book is much easier to use in a negative sense to manipulate people than the other. I have only read part of it, but could get the title if you're interested. She has a few friends, but this book is actually written for "normal" people (hate that word sometimes) and I think will work beautifully for her. The man who wrote it had no social issues, per se, but learned all of this over a number of years.

[Misty]

Asperger's is a real possibility here. Especially because many Asperger kids are gifted or appear gifted. Many Aspies talk excessively, especially about topics they are highly interested in (though some don't talk much at all). My Aspie will follow repairmen around the house and talk nonstop. My oldest daughter (11yo) also has Asperger's. She is highly verbal, a gifted writer, and very academically advanced. It sounds like it isn't affecting your daughter negatively at the moment, but it could very well affect her in the future, like with her future career, etc., so it could very well be worth looking into an evaluation.

 

Good luck!

[3Rivers]

I've wondered if she was on the Autism/Aspberger scale. When she was screened that was not mentioned but I think she has some traits of Asp.

 

Karin, I would like the title of that book you mentioned.

 

Thanks, y'all!

 

Jamie

[Storm Bay]

I've wondered if she was on the Autism/Aspberger scale. When she was screened that was not mentioned but I think she has some traits of Asp.

 

Karin, I would like the title of that book you mentioned.

 

Thanks, y'all!

 

Jamie

 

Winning with People by John C. Maxwell. The subtitle is Discover the People Principles that Work for You Every Time. There are 5 questions asked, and 4-6 principles given for each one. The questions are:

Are We Prepared for Relationships?

Are We Willing to Focus on Others?

Can We Build Mutual Trust?

Are We Willing to Invest in Others?

Can We Create a Win-Win Relationship?

 

In the part I've read, he uses concrete illustrations from his own life. It's clear, and I think that my teen will get a lto out of it. You could also read it, apply it (you may already apply it, but this is directed to "normal" people and I'm guessing all of us can learn something more) and then teach it concretely.

 

Another book I have that I've never used is called Teaching Asperger's Students Social Skills Through Acting. My dd definitely has a couple of traits lumped with Aspies, although not enough to fit the diagnosis. There are about 6 clear criteria required for a real diagnosis, and many people are quick to jump the gun and assume people have these. I was speaking with a special ed teaher I know as an acquaintance who said that sooner or later everyone will have a diagnosis and/or label at the rate we're going. The reason I haven't used it is because my dd balks at it. There are actual plays in it, and sooner or later I'll do this with all my dc so that no one is singled out. Also, there are a number of parts, so even if we have to double up, we won't be reading 3 or 4 parts apiece.

 

My opinion is that all dc need teaching, even the ones who pick social rules up intuitively. They may not need teaching in the social rules or interaction, but they need a lot of teaching to help them understand others, and they need to get it from the people who are different (by reading books, hearing sharings, etc.)

[3Rivers]

sooner or later everyone will have a diagnosis and/or label at the rate we're going

 

I see that too. That is also the reason why I haven't jumped to therapy. I understand why it is helpful to classify and organize behaviors, but I'm not so sure it is always helpful to the person being classified in the long run. I'm sure that in itself could be a very long discussion. I think even if I find that my dd is on the asp/aut scale even more than I think, I will never ever in a million years define her as an "aspie". I absolutely despise that (hits a button for me). She is her own person, herself, as God made her to be and relates in her own way. True, I often worry about her, but on the other hand I don't want to define her based on a few "traits".

 

I believe that the labeling is just one more result of standardization and the need for uniformity in educational settings. Everyone needs to be the same or similar in order to make the system work. So if children don't jive with the system then there has to be a way to classify behaviors in order to form a systematic way to interact and manage those personalities that don't fit the mold.

 

I'm not saying I'm opposed to therapy either, but I want to be specific in my own mind what is being addressed, i.e. help with motor coordination or working with her using these books and also including her brothers. I notice that sometimes all it takes is me identifying what the behavior is that needs to be addressed rather than just the vague "something isn't working here" mentality. That's where I think the books will be helpful. The few times I've pointed things out to her she gets it.

 

I also agree that all children need guidance, and am just now waking up to the reality that modeling won't cut it completely. We were in a setting recently where my son (who tends to be more intuitive and sits back and listens more than talking which tends to make him automatically blend in more easily in social settings) was having to meet a lot of new people. They kept asking him questions and smiling at him. Finally my bell-curve-normal boy blurted out "Why does everyone keep looking at me?!" It was embarassing but oh so funny. :tongue_smilie:

Social skills learning, here we come!

 

Jamie