Derek Owens & Western Civ

[Farrar]

This is straight up purely informational. I'm not going to debate the content (I think everyone who knows me at all on this board knows where I stand) or debate the usefulness or lack thereof of supply side activism. This has already been all over other groups, but I thought it was worth sharing here as some folks might not want to send this guy any more of your money, even if the course you're buying is purely about math. If this is within your acceptable beliefs, then that's fine, obviously this PSA just wasn't for you.

This is the "Western Civilization" course that Derek Owens is teaching at his local homeschool tutorial this fall:

https://www.metroacademicstudies.com/Home/Course/1688

 

[Shoeless]

I read the course description. Just...wow.

[Cdan]

Thanks for the heads up. This is so disappointing. Ugh. 

[easypeasy]

Well then. He really went for it in that description, didn't he? No wondering where he stands on this particular issue, lol...

I'm honestly surprised that one of the few "secular" curriculum providers would become outwardly political in this way. It would be like Teaching Textbooks suddenly coming out with a similarly opinionated product. Just - surprising.

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by easypeasy

[Shoeless]

4 hours ago, easypeasy said:

Well then. He really went for it in that description, didn't he? No wondering where he stands on this particular issue, lol...

I'm honestly surprised that one of the few "secular" curriculum providers would become outwardly political in this way. It would be like Teaching Textbooks suddenly coming out with a similarly opinionated product. Just - surprising.

 

Secular homeschoolers are still a small portion of the market. Perhaps he thinks he'll gain enough customers from the other side of the aisle to offset his losses from secular homeschoolers. 

[Farrar]

2 hours ago, Shoeless said:

Secular homeschoolers are still a small portion of the market. Perhaps he thinks he'll gain enough customers from the other side of the aisle to offset his losses from secular homeschoolers. 

I actually disagree with this. My guess is that there are actually a lot more secular homeschoolers than religious ones at this point. It's just that most of the secular homeschoolers are schooling through charters or online schools like (gag) Acellus. The old fashioned curriculum marketplace may still be majority religious.

My thinking is that his business is pretty saturated. I doubt he has much room to grow beyond his normal growth. People don't switch to a provider over something like this. They do sometimes leave one though. So I don't think this can possibly help his business overall.

[elegantlion]

/glares in historian/ 

[skimomma]

Oh wow.  This is a provider that I have been recommending.  I am a "retired" homeschool mom but we relied on several of his classes for the high school years.  I guess I will have to change my recommendations.  The people who seek help from me are exclusively secular and would be 100% appalled by this.  Ew.

[Lawyer&Mom]

Ugh.  As a liberal progressive mom who sees the value of a classical education and is actively working to give that to my kids, this is so frustrating.  I hate the idea that the Western Civ “belongs” to one side of the political debate.  If you want to broaden the appeal of a classical education, this so isn’t helping!

[SilverMoon]

Yeah... 🤢

DO was my plan for alg for my dysgraphic kid. This puts us back to Thinkwell. 

I agree that it's just the old school books and paper homeschoolers who are still mostly religious. There's a definite void trying to find secular lit based science ideas, blogs posts with book lists, or anything for middle and high school. Zillions for religious. 
 

[SeaConquest]

I was just coming to post this. Thank you, Farrar. I am so so disappointed and regret ever paying him a dime. I cannot believe where we are going as a society. 

[Farrar]

3 hours ago, skimomma said:

Oh wow.  This is a provider that I have been recommending.  I am a "retired" homeschool mom but we relied on several of his classes for the high school years.  I guess I will have to change my recommendations.  The people who seek help from me are exclusively secular and would be 100% appalled by this.  Ew.

Exact same. I knew where his general political leanings were and I always told families it's fine. But this was next level. It crossed a line for me. It's sad to me that I kicked any business his way over the last several years.

[kokotg]

We haven't done any of his classes, but I'd considered them from time to time. When I first heard about this in another group, I wondered if it was really that bad (I mean, I live in the same area as him; I'm certainly used to encountering and interacting with homeschoolers who have different views than I have on a whole bunch of issues, and usually it's not a big deal)....but I was blown away when I read the course description. Wow.

[KSera]

Well, this is thoroughly disappointing. I expected a different religious flavor from me; and that was okay with me; his math classes have always been fully secular. This is next level, though and suggests he’s lost the plot. Which is very disappointing because he’s always been a nice guy and his math courses are excellent. It would’ve been completely possible for him to write and describe a Western Civ course which addressed and acknowledged the ways in which western civilization is important to the rest of the world, without taking it in the direction he did here. I’m used to college courses sometimes having a very strong ideological bent like that (typically in a different direction), but it seems particularly out of place in a high school class.

[Shoeless]

8 hours ago, Farrar said:

I actually disagree with this. My guess is that there are actually a lot more secular homeschoolers than religious ones at this point. It's just that most of the secular homeschoolers are schooling through charters or online schools like (gag) Acellus. The old fashioned curriculum marketplace may still be majority religious.

My thinking is that his business is pretty saturated. I doubt he has much room to grow beyond his normal growth. People don't switch to a provider over something like this. They do sometimes leave one though. So I don't think this can possibly help his business overall.

Interesting. Around here, the religious homeschoolers are more likely to pick online providers. Acellus was popular but now everyone's back on a Power Homeschool kick. 

[EKS]

I don’t have a problem with offering a course that takes on critical theory.  Frankly I think there should be more of them.  But Mr Owens, as far as I know, does not have the appropriate educational background to teach such a course.

I will continue to recommend his math courses.

Edited April 6, 2023 by EKS

[jplain]

I could have sworn that when I first read the course description it acknowledged his lack of background in the topic and mentioned he would be seeking outside/expert opinions.  Was that just my imagination, or has the course description been modified?

[Doodlebug]

Serious question.  Is the issue 1) that DO elevates the west in his perspective, 2) that the follow up assumes a politicized "war on the west," 3) or all of the above? 

And, if you had an ideal Western Civ course, what would the perspective be? 

To be up front, I am filled with a great deal of gratitude for the opportunities this country has afforded my family.  So, DO's perspective on Western Civ resonates with me from that perspective. But I am genuine about wanting to understand where the issue lies and why it merits encouraging homeschoolers to ditch a resource that has been a mainstay in maths. 

  

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Doodlebug

[EKS]

 I see that this course is being offered online.  I might sign up for it just to see what it's about.

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, Doodlebug said:

Serious question.  Is the issue 1) that DO elevates the west in his perspective, 2) that the follow up assumes a politicized "war on the west," 3) or all of the above? 

And, if you had an ideal Western Civ course, what would the perspective be? 

To be up front, I am filled with a great deal of gratitude for the opportunities this country has afforded my family.  So, DO's perspective on Western Civ resonates with me from that perspective. But I am genuine about wanting to understand where the issue lies and why it merits encouraging homeschoolers to ditch a resource that has been a mainstay in maths. 

I would frame the issue very differently. He's not presenting information and facilitating discussion among students but expressing an opinion that's LOADED with flawed analysis as fact. "The philosophical foundations of Western Civilization are actively being undermined by radical ideology and progressive identity politics" is unsubstantiated opinion. 1) How is he defining the foundations of Western Civ and do a majority or even plurality of scholars share his definition? What documents does he define as foundational and whose interests did/do they serve? What documents are left out? 2) What is the 'radical ideology' he's describing and do a majority or even plurality of scholars share his definition? 3) What are 'progressive identity politics' according to him and do a majority or even plurality of scholars share his definition? 4) How do any of these assertions square with the lack of due process, lack of criminal activity, and lack of respect afforded duly-elected representatives EJECTED from a state legislative body (not by progressives)? That's just one sentence of his description, easily dissected. Every student should receive an education such that they can identify hogwash when they see it.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Sneezyone

[KSera]

5 hours ago, Doodlebug said:

Serious question.  Is the issue 1) that DO elevates the west in his perspective, 2) that the follow up assumes a politicized "war on the west," 3) or all of the above? 

And, if you had an ideal Western Civ course, what would the perspective be? 

To be up front, I am filled with a great deal of gratitude for the opportunities this country has afforded my family.  So, DO's perspective on Western Civ resonates with me from that perspective. But I am genuine about wanting to understand where the issue lies and why it merits encouraging homeschoolers to ditch a resource that has been a mainstay in maths. 

  

 

 

 

My reasons are similar to Sneezy’s. His course description indicates the course is more about a perceived “War on the West” than about the history of Western Civilization. One can appreciate what the US has offered their family without subscribing to the kinds of ideology that he is putting forth. It’s inappropriate to me for him to frame such a radically politically polarized course as a high school “Western Civ” class. And there’s just so much nonsense in there. 
 

It calls his other courses into question for me because I trust him and his judgement less in light of this and I don’t care to financially support it. I’m still sorting through in my head whether this affects future class plans for us. Fortunately we don’t have any of his classes in our plans for next year, so I don’t have to make any decisions. 

[Farrar]

I'll just name it. It's over the top full of racist dogwhistles that are barely even dogwhistles. It's openly xenophobic. I don't want to give anyone who is preaching that perspective my money.

[Doodlebug]

Thank you for the responses.  For clarity, it sounds as though the issue is with Owens’ editorial follow-up to the course description - “War on the West.”  Had the course description been provided without that, would there be an issue?

I love higher ed, freedom of speech, and appreciate a good discussion on the merits of a course. The labels, though?  My thinking is that he’s just a guy with a perspective - a perspective is inherently biased and his is no more or less radical than others, depending on what your political stripe is.

Personally, I have an issue with history being taught from what seems an exclusively political motive.  Whether that’s DO or a college professor, it doesn’t matter.  

[Sneezyone]

36 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I'll just name it. It's over the top full of racist dogwhistles that are barely even dogwhistles. It's openly xenophobic. I don't want to give anyone who is preaching that perspective my money.

And I feel particularly misled that I gave him money in the past and suggested it to others who would, likewise, not want him to receive a dime of their money. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Sneezyone

[EKS]

5 hours ago, KSera said:

It calls his other courses into question for me because I trust him and his judgement less in light of this and I don’t care to financially support it. I’m still sorting through in my head whether this affects future class plans for us.

I have personally experienced the following DO courses: Prealgebra, Geometry, Algebra 2, Precalculus, and Calculus.  I can tell you with certainty that they prepare a student extraordinarily well for higher level math.

My older son also took his physics course.  I found, in the course of going through his work, that there was some nonsecular material in a lecture at the very end of the course.  Here is a link to the post(s) I made about that material.  

Other than that, there has been absolutely nothing of concern, though I understand that people may not want to support him anyway. 

I really wish that the ideas that come out of critical theory as well as the pushback to them had not become politicized.  The ideas are important ones--and the critique of those ideas is equally important--and both should be discussed.

[elegantlion]

11 hours ago, Doodlebug said:

Serious question.  Is the issue 1) that DO elevates the west in his perspective, 2) that the follow up assumes a politicized "war on the west," 3) or all of the above? 

And, if you had an ideal Western Civ course, what would the perspective be? 

To be up front, I am filled with a great deal of gratitude for the opportunities this country has afforded my family.  So, DO's perspective on Western Civ resonates with me from that perspective. But I am genuine about wanting to understand where the issue lies and why it merits encouraging homeschoolers to ditch a resource that has been a mainstay in maths. 

  

 

 

 

Here's an overview of a CLEP course on Western Civ.  For me, a western civ course should not contain US history except for the small segment of the early modern period - for which a lot of college western civ courses stop before that period. So, to filter non-US history through a lens of "what has the west done for the US?"  - bad Monty Python reference - negates looking at these rich cultures in their own light. 

An ideal Western Civ course should contain readings of the primary sources from each era - the course I took started with selections from Gilgamesh. Ideally, those selections should be chosen from a professor who has knowledge of those original languages so as to find the translations that works best for students. In the scholarly world, most PhD specialize in small areas, such as the Ancient Near East, Roman, Medieval, etc. with huge subsections under that. For instance, I specialize in medieval England and can read Latin, some Old French, and some Old English, as well as Middle English. My college western civ professor was trained in several languages as his specialities ranged from Ancient Near East to early modern Germanic. All translation is commentary - so it's important to be able to 1. understand why a text is culturaly important to the culture being studied, not the modern US, and 2. understand the language being used in a text (this is where a network of specialists can be helpful) or using a trusted primary source book in other cases. As a tangent, a course could help provide relevance of the text to the modern era, but the analysis should be in peeling back the layers of our own perspective and bias to see how that culture experienced their lives. 

Religion is an important topic in western civ, but again it should be a balanced approach. I would want to understand Judasim from the Jewish perspective, Islam from a Muslim perspective, and Christianity from a Christian perspective. They are all imporant when it comes to understanding especially the medieval period and I don't want it all filtered through a Christian lens. 

 

[Clemsondana]

My perspective is a little different.  We are involved in a co-op that offers high quality classes. I know that there are teachers, administrators, and board members who have very different political perspectives.  It doesn't affect instruction in classes.  It's not relevant to math or most science, and the history and English teachers don't teach their own perspectives, instead requiring students to defend their statements.  We do offer the occasional class from a particular viewpoint - some years there is a Bible-based class for high schoolers that involves a lot of discussion.  But, knowing that classes may be taught by people who have very different opinions and perspectives has never affected my willingness to enroll my kids in their classes if their opinion is not a part of the class that my child will take.  If I didn't want my student exposed to the thoughts of the person teaching the Bible class I wouldn't choose that class, but knowing that they are teaching a Bible class wouldn't affect my willingness to sign my kid up for a different class with that person even if I didn't agree with their religious perspectives. 

In general I'm not comfortable only doing business with people with whom I agree politically.  But, knowing that many people do consider that to be a good course of action, and since I also teach, I share my thoughts on current events with very, very few people.  I don't really think that is a good thing, but I'm aware that there is no perspective that I could have that wouldn't upset a decent percentage of our fairly politically diverse group.  It's a little strange to realize that there are people who have known me for over a decade who don't know my thoughts on many issues, and from what i can tell most people just seem to assume that I agree with them, whatever their own beliefs.  But, this thread confirms my thoughts that there might be people who would say 'We've known you for 10 years, and our older kids have taken your class and enjoyed it, but knowing that you think X and Y, we're not going to sign up our youngest to learn mitosis with you.'  As far as I know, this has never happened (I've taught multiple children in lots of families) but I have no way of knowing if its because I don't talk about my thoughts or because our families only use that as a factor when it pertains directly to the class, which, for my class, it doesn't.

[Sneezyone]

10 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

My perspective is a little different.  We are involved in a co-op that offers high quality classes. I know that there are teachers, administrators, and board members who have very different political perspectives.  It doesn't affect instruction in classes.  It's not relevant to math or most science, and the history and English teachers don't teach their own perspectives, instead requiring students to defend their statements.  We do offer the occasional class from a particular viewpoint - some years there is a Bible-based class for high schoolers that involves a lot of discussion.  But, knowing that classes may be taught by people who have very different opinions and perspectives has never affected my willingness to enroll my kids in their classes if their opinion is not a part of the class that my child will take.  If I didn't want my student exposed to the thoughts of the person teaching the Bible class I wouldn't choose that class, but knowing that they are teaching a Bible class wouldn't affect my willingness to sign my kid up for a different class with that person even if I didn't agree with their religious perspectives. 

In general I'm not comfortable only doing business with people with whom I agree politically.  But, knowing that many people do consider that to be a good course of action, and since I also teach, I share my thoughts on current events with very, very few people.  I don't really think that is a good thing, but I'm aware that there is no perspective that I could have that wouldn't upset a decent percentage of our fairly politically diverse group.  It's a little strange to realize that there are people who have known me for over a decade who don't know my thoughts on many issues, and from what i can tell most people just seem to assume that I agree with them, whatever their own beliefs.  But, this thread confirms my thoughts that there might be people who would say 'We've known you for 10 years, and our older kids have taken your class and enjoyed it, but knowing that you think X and Y, we're not going to sign up our youngest to learn mitosis with you.'  As far as I know, this has never happened (I've taught multiple children in lots of families) but I have no way of knowing if its because I don't talk about my thoughts or because our families only use that as a factor when it pertains directly to the class, which, for my class, it doesn't.

I am generally content to ignore the perspective/slant teachers have on a course and follow the rigor but that is NOT what this is. This isn't a Western Civ class, it's a political philosophy class of dubious origin packaged as history. Western Civ is roughly the equivalent of AP Euro. The content he's proposing is well beyond content norms in that space. Folks are free to do as they please but I wouldn't pay anyone to teach a mislabled class that distorts history to advance an agenda, left or right.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Clemsondana]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I am generally content to ignore the perspective/slant teachers have on a course and follow the rigor but that is NOt what this is. This isn't a Western Civ class, it's a political philosophy class of dubious origin packaged as history.

Right, and I completely understand people not choosing to take this class.  Or, as homeschoolers, people might choose to call the class a philosophy class.  Similarly, somebody might choose to call the Bible class a history credit while I'd count it as a religion credit (or not take it, depending on what I wanted for my kid).  But, however those classes are taught, it would be unlikely to affect whether my kid took Geometry or French from that teacher since their political/religious philosophy isn't likely to be part of geometric proofs or French grammar.  I tend to make decisions on a class-by-class basis, depending on how I think the teacher will do with the class in question.  We don't take every class from every teacher for a variety of reasons, but how they teach a different class has never been part of our decision-making.  

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

Right, and I completely understand people not choosing to take this class.  Or, as homeschoolers, people might choose to call the class a philosophy class.  Similarly, somebody might choose to call the Bible class a history credit while I'd count it as a religion credit (or not take it, depending on what I wanted for my kid).  But, however those classes are taught, it would be unlikely to affect whether my kid took Geometry or French from that teacher since their political/religious philosophy isn't likely to be part of geometric proofs or French grammar.  I tend to make decisions on a class-by-class basis, depending on how I think the teacher will do with the class in question.  We don't take every class from every teacher for a variety of reasons, but how they teach a different class has never been part of our decision-making.  

While technically true, I think that's somewhat naive thinking. He's leveraging his bona fides on math to suggest his 'Western Civ' class is of equal merit. It's not. There will be numerous people who see the course title and assume/believe, based on his reputation in MATH, that it is an actual 'Western Civ' class. It's not. Unlike many here, I have had to take a very strong stance against elevating those who seek to marginalize and distort the experiences of my ancestors and kids. The consequences of complacency in that way are myriad and deeply felt right now.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Miss Tick]

8 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

We don't take every class from every teacher for a variety of reasons, but how they teach a different class has never been part of our decision-making.  

We've taken classes from teachers we have religious or philosophical differences with in the past, on the assumption that they would keep topics separate. Even when we used DO math I knew he and we were not aligned, but the math classes and support have been solid. However the description of his new class alarms me in that some of the phrases he is using sound like they have been taken from a world view that rests heavily on what I consider to be conspiracy theories. The people whom I have met that are willing to say or publish things like this have moved into a realm where they will no longer respect boundaries.

On the plus side for the math courses, they were recorded a while ago, so if someone felt they were the best choice and were willing to pay the relatively reasonable price the content won't include any post-factual politics.

[Roadrunner]

nm

Edited April 7, 2023 by Roadrunner

[KSera]

2 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

I know that there are teachers, administrators, and board members who have very different political perspectives.  It doesn't affect instruction in classes. 

This case is different than just coming from a different religious or political perspective. My kids have had many teachers who come from a variety of perspectives, including you. The difference is as Farrar said, the racist and xenophobic dog whistles. Everyone likely has some line a teacher can eventually cross which makes them no longer fit to teach their child. For me, racism and xenophobia put someone in that category when the child in question is still in high school. 

 

2 hours ago, Miss Tick said:

On the plus side for the math courses, they were recorded a while ago, so if someone felt they were the best choice and were willing to pay the relatively reasonable price the content won't include any post-factual politics.

I do think this is a good point. A lot of people have been radicalized this way only very recently, and it’s likely he didn’t think this way at the time he recorded those.

[Lecka]

I’m skipping to the bottom to say, I also read the description as racist.  I read it as a response to The 1619 Project.  
 

This is a whole “thing” and it’s a big topic locally, there are issues about what should be taught in schools about “critical race theory.”  
 

I read the description as using that same language and argument.  
 

I can see reading it differently without that context, but I do read it as having that context.  
 

Edit:  like — have you heard of

the 1776 Project?  
 

This is very political stuff right now.  

Edited April 7, 2023 by Lecka

[Lecka]

For example — here is a real example. In the past week or two, there was a challenge to showing a movie about Ruby Bridges in an elementary school.  She was a little girl who desegregated a school.

 

Is it right or wrong to teach this as part of American history?

 

Well, the language about how you have to be prepared to talk about how America is good and not bad, is used by people who think — primarily! — that children shouldn’t be taught about slavery, or racism.  
 

That is who is currently using this language, and it’s in the news, and it’s happening right now.

 

Should children be taught about, for example, the Tulsa Massacre.  
 

This is a controversy here.  Some people think it harms children to learn about things like this as part of history, and makes them not feel proud to be Americans.  
 

These are current events.  

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

For example — here is a real example. In the past week or two, there was a challenge to showing a movie about Ruby Bridges in an elementary school.  She was a little girl who desegregated a school.

 

Is it right or wrong to teach this as part of American history?

 

Well, the language about how you have to be prepared to talk about how America is good and not bad, is used by people who think — primarily! — that children shouldn’t be taught about slavery, or racism.  
 

That is who is currently using this language, and it’s in the news, and it’s happening right now.

 

Should children be taught about, for example, the Tulsa Massacre.  
 

This is a controversy here.  Some people think it harms children to learn about things like this as part of history, and makes them not feel proud to be Americans.  
 

These are current events.  

Indeed. If you, as a parent, are paying for 'Western Civ' instruction, that's what you should receive. US history is NOT Western Civ. Most US history classes never even get to current events due to time constraints; it's relegated to current events classes. Modern history, AP Research or Gov't may explore the truths/falsities suggested by his course. For a general 'Western Civ' course... this framing is sus.

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Lecka]

https://www.tampabay.com/news/education/2023/04/03/disney-pinellas-county-schools-parent-challenge/
 

This is an article about the Ruby Bridges thing.

 

My         is concerned about “woke education” and wants to allow/encourage/empower parents to call out examples of “woke education” and have them removed from schools.  

 

And then that is how a parent could request this to be removed from the school.  
 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by desertflower
Political

[Roadrunner]

Good or bad? What is this, Kindergarten? Don’t we have a capacity to contemplate a layer of complexity? 😢

[Sneezyone]

No. "We" don't have the capacity to deal with complexity. The Ruby Bridges complaint likely came from a product of public schools. It shows just how  much (un)learning remains to be done.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Sneezyone

[frankincense]

nm

Edited February 26 by frankincense

[KSera]

10 minutes ago, frankincense said:

I feel a little wistful for the days when I perceived an atmosphere of a lot more of what I feel true tolerance (not agreement, tolerance) truly is. 

Do you have a line, or do you find tolerance of any and every viewpoint the ideal? 

[Roadrunner]

He could have just pointed students to a lot of western civilization courses that exist and are doing an excellent job teaching those principles without politics. CLRC anybody?

[Shelydon]

So if you disagree with someone's political view, you cannot utilize other things that person produces? 

[KSera]

2 minutes ago, Shelydon said:

So if you disagree with someone's political view, you cannot utilize other things that person produces? 

No, I think a number of people, myself included have said we use products and have kids in classes with teachers with different views.  I expect most people have lines that are too far though. Racism is one of those for me. I don't consider that to be just an alternate political view to be respected.

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, KSera said:

No, I think a number of people, myself included have said we use products and have kids in classes with teachers with different views.  I expect most people have lines that are too far though. Racism is one of those for me. I don't consider that to be just an alternate political view to be respected.

Shoot, you don't even have to reach racism (because I know that's not a turn off for everyone). Being a charlatan, peddling content that you're not qualified to provide to any standard of rigor, is enough for me lol.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Sneezyone

[SilverMoon]

4 hours ago, Shelydon said:

So if you disagree with someone's political view, you cannot utilize other things that person produces? 

Nationalism, racism, xenophobia, and transphobia are not mere political views. He's teaching against the existence of one of my kids. I'm not paying him to teach math to any of them. 🙃

[Roadrunner]

27 minutes ago, SilverMoon said:

Nationalism, racism, xenophobia, and transphobia are not mere political views. He's teaching against the existence of one of my kids. I'm not paying him to teach math to any of them. 🙃

You don’t know that’s what he is teaching. I don’t know that he isn’t teaching that either. But until somebody takes that class, maybe we shouldn’t destroy the man. 

[maize]

8 hours ago, SilverMoon said:

He's teaching against the existence of one of my kids. 🙃

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Has someone said your child doesn't exist?

[maize]

I'm an anthropologist by training; thinking about human culture in all its variety has always fascinated me. Right now, I'm quite intrigued by the conviction of cultural superiority on display by a group of folks who  are disparaging someone else's claim to cultural superiority.

 

[EKS]

9 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

But until somebody takes that class, maybe we shouldn’t destroy the man.

I plan to take it.