Looking for a unicorn: Grammar

[silver]

I'm looking for a grammar curriculum for the logic stage, but the combination of things I'm looking for make me think I'm looking for a unicorn.

I want it to have:
- only grammar, no writing lessons
     - (alternatively, both of: the writing lessons are easy to skip and the price is $50 or less for a year so that it doesn't feel silly to skip a big chunk of the text)
- covers diagramming
- short lessons (10-20 minutes)
- short exercises (maybe 5-10 quick oral [or white board] exercises on the lesson topic and then diagram a sentence or two)
- fewer than 140 lessons (ideal would be 90-110 lessons)
- extra fun bonus: either has levels (with guidance for placement) or assumes some grammar knowledge (parts of speech already known, basics of diagramming already known, etc)
- songs or chants are not an essential part of the curriculum

Grammar for the WTM lessons are too long; breaking lessons into smaller chunks gives it too many lessons. The curriculum "Daily Grammar Practice" seems close, but it's just exercises and doesn't actually have any teaching/lessons. English Lessons through Literature, although lessons are short, has way more than grammar in it. Rod and Staff has too many exercises. 

Does anyone know of the unicorn I seek? Anything close? Input for why the few I listed above would actually work for us?

[LinRTX]

I just looked at Rod and Staff 6. When you take out the writing lessons, there are only 100 lessons. I just did a quick look so don't know if it meets your other criteria. We did this in 5th grade and she has now graduated from college so a long time ago. (This was our first level of Rod and Staff.)

[Green Bean]

Grammar is writing so I’m confused why you don’t want any actual written exercises.

R&S and skip exercises.

GWG has a few skippable writing lessons. But nothing oral.

Easy Grammar’s Ultimate series is like Daily Grams but with teaching bits.

[Lovinglife123]

You described rod and staff to a T.  Level 4 or 5 depending on prior grammar and whether you want it to be more independent.

[Mona]

I like the Rod and Staff suggestion, but you could also look at Junior Analytical Grammar. It’s an 11 week course. You can skip the weekly writing assignments. There’s also Winston Grammar.

[HomeAgain]

English Lessons Through Literature.  You should look at it again.

You don't need to do the writing.  You don't even need to read the books if you don't want to.  The grammar exercises are contained in the manual Inon-consumable, about $35/year) and are about 3-5 sentences to breakdown per lesson, and short teaching blocks.  There are 108 lessons in each book.  The sample is generous.

DS liked the method so much that the last year, when we didn't do ELTL, I made him his own sheets based on his reading material.  We continued working through a reference/teaching manual I have called The First Whole Book of Diagrams, where we spiraled back to what had been taught previously and just increased the difficulty slightly.

[silver]

53 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

Grammar is writing so I’m confused why you don’t want any actual written exercises.

We've got a method down for grammar as it pertains to writing that we're happy with. I'm okay with writing on a white board or something, but if there is enough writing that you need to do it on a separate piece of paper, it will likely take more time out of our school day than I feel it needs at this point, given her prior grammar exposure. Plus, with oral exercises, I am forced to check it immediately, catching mistakes quickly and reducing my time spent having to grade school work.

 

53 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

Easy Grammar’s Ultimate series is like Daily Grams but with teaching bits.

I was under the impression that Easy Grammar does not have diagramming. The "Daily Grammar Practice" that I mentioned that doesn't have teaching is this one: https://www.dgppublishing.com/pages/daily-grammar-practice-overview

 

6 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

English Lessons Through Literature.  You should look at it again.

If we skip lessons on outlining, summarizing, and other writing related topics, and skip the reading, poetry, art study, and short stories, is there enough "meat" left?
 

Quote

multiple suggestions for R&S

I'll have to take a look at Rod and Staff again. It looked like it had way more exercises than I'm interested in covering, but maybe we can skip most of them.

[SilverMoon]

Fwiw if the lesson volume of GftWTM is your only concern, it's not expected that you actually finish the book on the first pass. Every level will repeat the necessary content with different exercises, and you can work as far as you can this year, then pick up another level and go further the next year. 

[Clarita]

WTM has the Diagramming Dictionary. Maybe you could use that for the lessons and then "Daily Grammar Practice" as the practice?

[Lovinglife123]

I have used ELTL and it did not stick with my DS or DD.  I tried levels 1-3.  My children don’t seem to pick up on things that are purely spiral (I know some kids thrive with that).  R&S has review so even though it’s mastery, it does keep it fresh in their mind.  They do it on their own mostly in 10 minutes.  Occasionally they come to me for help, so I’m not sure if there are too many exercises.  They haven’t complained.

Edited March 13 by Lovinglife123

[Green Bean]

1 hour ago, Mona said:

I like the Rod and Staff suggestion, but you could also look at Junior Analytical Grammar. It’s an 11 week course. You can skip the weekly writing assignments. There’s also Winston Grammar.

JAG/AG have been revised.

[Mona]

1 hour ago, Green Bean said:

JAG/AG have been revised.

Yes, it is supposed to be available this month.

[prairiewindmomma]

Exercises in English by Loyola Press

[Ellie]

Easy Grammar, which has everything except diagramming.

Rod and Staff's English series is excellent, but I just don't think it's the best for doing *only* grammar.

[BusyMom5]

Take a look at Growing with Grammar.  The Grammar lessons are broken down into sections, so I'm not sure how many individual lessons are in each level,  but my kids were always able to finish in one school year.  I’ve used several levels and find it an easy way to get grammar done- focused,  quick, does have diagramming, not a lot of writing.  They have a separate writing program, if you wanted to do both, but no problems using just one or the other.  

[8filltheheart]

That's how I use AG. We typically do about 5 sentences per day. I use it starting in late elementary/early middle school grades without issue. It is very straightforward and the sentences in season 1 are pretty simplistic.

[Homeschoolmom3]

My thought was Junior analytical grammar…

[countrymum]

JAG original is still likely available...I think it may be on sale at Demme even...

[silver]

On 3/16/2023 at 11:51 AM, Homeschoolmom3 said:

My thought was Junior analytical grammar…

22 hours ago, countrymum said:

JAG original is still likely available...I think it may be on sale at Demme even...

This is for logic stage. She knows parts of speech, parts of sentence, basic sentence diagramming, etc. Would JAG or AG be better?

[8filltheheart]

I have only ever used AG and it has been fine starting in 5th or 6th grade.

[Mona]

1 hour ago, silver said:

This is for logic stage. She knows parts of speech, parts of sentence, basic sentence diagramming, etc. Would JAG or AG be better?

I picked JAG earlier because I was trying to fit your criteria and JAG is basically season 1 of AG at a lower reading level so students can concentrate on the concepts. AG would have been over the price range. I just checked and they are now offering the new editions in their store, but you can still get previous editions. The previous edition of AG covers the new levels 3-5 and is marked down to around $70. The new editions are above the price range, but you can use the older edition of AG over 2-3 years if that makes a difference. 

[countrymum]

6 hours ago, silver said:

This is for logic stage. She knows parts of speech, parts of sentence, basic sentence diagramming, etc. Would JAG or AG be better?

I think AG sounds like a better fit. The original surely though! The new one is full years! Look fast;) It is on sale now. I'm using it for my 5th grader next year as well as dyslexic 7th grader.

[Garga]

@silver I loved Christian Light Education (CLE) grammar for my kids. Loved it. There are free placement tests online if you’re not exactly sure what level to get.

It seems to fit your unicorn ideal. The writing is a separate program, it covers diagraming, the new info that you learn each lesson is very, very short (most of the time is spent reviewing what was already learned, which is excellent for memory/retention). I don’t remember how many lessons there are, but there are 1 or 2 quizzes plus a test per workbook, and there are 10 workbooks. If you skip the quizzes and tests, you can knock off 20-30 lessons right off the bat (which is what I did when my son did the CLE math program, when I wanted him to move forward faster.) There are no chants or songs.

The 10 workbooks (which include everything the students needs) are $49.50, but I would recommend getting the answer books, which is another $12. You can check the work on your own, but that’s a pain. The teacher’s guide isn’t really worth anything except that it also has the answer key. You don’t need the little chart that you can buy on the side or any of the extras. 

Here’s a link to the Language Arts page: https://christianlight.org/shop-curriculum/by-subject/language-arts

Oh! And if you don’t want to buy all 10 books at once, but want to try it out, click on the title of the course you’re looking at (instead of clicking “add set to cart”) and you can buy each book separately to try one out. Here’s a link of an example of the 6th grade books split out: https://christianlight.org/curriculum/by-grade/grade-6/language-arts/se2-language-arts-601-610-lightunit-set

My oldest hates writing with a passion and struggles in his college writing courses to come up with content. But once he figures out the content, his grammar is perfect. 

My youngest is a natural writer, and his grammar is also outstanding (he’s a senior in high school—we stopped formal grammar lessons in 8th grade.)

 

ETA: for CLE, I had to learn not to be uneasy at how little they teach per new lesson. Don’t bother to expound if you think the new lesson isn’t expounding enough. The key to this course is in the review/practice that the student does after learning something new. Let the new lesson wash over your student and if they don’t “get it” right away, that’s ok. The book will circle back around to the topic during a review/practice session later, and after a time or two of circling back, it will click. Just let the process work without doing anything extra. 

 

P.S. I ended up getting a job 2 years ago as a technical writer. I am 100% not kidding that CLE grammar has helped me immensely at this new job. So many little quirks of grammar are now second nature to me, after having gone through CLE with my sons. I was fine with my grammar before, but I’m excellent at it now. (Watch, there are probably a bunch of grammar errors on this! If there are, I’ll blame it on losing an hour of sleep last week!)

Edited Saturday at 02:46 AM by Garga

[Homeschoolmom3]

16 hours ago, silver said:

This is for logic stage. She knows parts of speech, parts of sentence, basic sentence diagramming, etc. Would JAG or AG be better?

Probably AG if a good background. 

[Helpdesk]

One way to shorten the lessons in GftWTM  is to do only a portion of the exercises.  If the student understands what is being taught, there's no need to hammer him/her with multiple sample exercises.  Likewise, when the student hits a bump in the road, if you have used only a few portion of the sample sentences, that leaves you a space to re-teach the concept and use the remaining (or some portion of the remaining) exercises to perfect their work.  That's what I would do.