Alg I relative difficulty

[Miss Tick]

DD decided to attend b&m school for 8th this year. The only challenge she is running into is figuring out how to do well in Algebra 1. She did Derek Owens' last year and got an A. His classes are really geared for the students to learn the material, with the ability to repeat homeworks and tests until you demonstrate understanding. Prior to that she completed AOPS' Prealgebra. DD is a big picture thinker and often tripped up by details like spelling (in languages) or negative signs. She was placed by the math department in Algebra 1 Honors and I had no objection, knowing that she could use the opportunity to shore up her attention to detail.

She has been scoring well on homework and classwork (As and Bs), tests haven't been great (one C and then all flavors of B). However the Semester exam was a disastrous D. What? I scheduled a meeting to try to understand where the disconnect was. The teacher didn't seem to have given it any thought. I asked for more practice material to help figure out what her problem(s) is. Dd texted me just now that he is referring her to AOPS Intro to Algebra. Why would he suggest this? As far as I can tell she understands all the concepts and is doing things like dropping negatives, running out of time (on one test), making computation errors, standard 8th grade stuff, she's good at math but not a math savant.

The class is based off Dolciani, why would he recommend AOPS? She is looking to shore up inconsistencies, not looking for additional challenge - not that I think additional challenge would be bad, it just isn't where she is at. I asked if they had problem sets from Jacobs or Lial that would correspond to the Dolciani topics. He wasn't familiar with those names, so I'm not surprised that isn't what he has come up with. I haven't seen the material, but I suspect it won't address whatever her issue is.

This is his 2nd year teaching the class, so sadly, he does not have years of wisdom to help him help her. I definitely get the impression that the math department is very impressed with themselves. This is possibly a subtle hint they want her to drop the Honors track. 

Why would he recommend AOPS? Anybody have a better recommendation for how I can help her do better on the teats?

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Miss Tick
added more background

[Guest]

I don’t see how they could simultaneously push her to drop the honors track while also recommending AoPS. Perhaps they don’t really know the content and teaching / learning style of AoPS?

If the class is based on Dolciani, could you get a copy of Dolciani and help her review material before her big exams?

I know my kid fatigues easily for tasks that require high attention to detail (like keeping track of negatives, etc). So shorter homework sets - no big deal. Longer tests can be hard though. Could you ask the teacher to provide her with extra time for tests? I also worked with my child to get into the habit of double checking all his math work. 

 

6 hours ago, Miss Tick said:

As far as I can tell she understands all the concepts and is doing things like dropping negatives, running out of time (on one test), making computation errors, standard 8th grade stuff, she's good at math but not a math savant.

You may also consider evaluation for learning differences or neurodevelopmental differences. I don’t know what is “standard” for 8th graders (in terms of expected types of numbers of errors), but my other child didn’t struggle with these things. 

 

[cintinative]

6 hours ago, Miss Tick said:

As far as I can tell she understands all the concepts and is doing things like dropping negatives, running out of time (on one test), making computation errors, standard 8th grade stuff, she's good at math but not a math savant.

I know Derek Owens writes his own materials, but I believe his Alg I course is based on Dolciani.  

Do you think this could be a stress under a time crunch thing?  I imagine it is different to take a test during a 50 minute period than do it at home, possibly with no time limits.  My youngest would really struggle with anxiety in that scenario, and silly mistakes would ensue from the rushing. 

[Miss Tick]

Just now, cintinative said:

I believe his Alg I course is based on Dolciani. 

I agree. I have checked this before the school year started.

1 minute ago, cintinative said:

Do you think this could be a stress under a time crunch thing?

Good thought. I'll pursue this.

[Malam]

Can't you look at her copy of the test to ser where she failed?

[kiwik]

On 1/20/2023 at 11:59 AM, WTM said:

I don’t see how they could simultaneously push her to drop the honors track while also recommending AoPS. Perhaps they don’t really know the content and teaching / learning style of AoPS?

If the class is based on Dolciani, could you get a copy of Dolciani and help her review material before her big exams?

I know my kid fatigues easily for tasks that require high attention to detail (like keeping track of negatives, etc). So shorter homework sets - no big deal. Longer tests can be hard though. Could you ask the teacher to provide her with extra time for tests? I also worked with my child to get into the habit of double checking all his math work. 

 

You may also consider evaluation for learning differences or neurodevelopmental differences. I don’t know what is “standard” for 8th graders (in terms of expected types of numbers of errors), but my other child didn’t struggle with these things. 

 

I saw a reveiw of AOPS by a teacher once.  She recommended it for remedial students due to the lack of "real life problems".  So I am not sure teachers get AOPS.

[Miss Tick]

I'm thinking now that maybe they include a couple of AOPS problems along with the Dolciani problems in the test. That may be why they are so impressed with their program.

[EKS]

Dropping negative signs and similar issues are signs of an overloaded working memory.  When I'm having trouble with new concepts, procedures, whatever, I start making these sorts of errors.  The only way I've found to get through it is more practice with the new thing.  

I'd do a couple of things.  First, I'd ask the teacher why he thinks that AoPS would be helpful.  I would not rely on your daughter to relay any messages. 

I'd also sit with her (across the room, actually) while she does her homework and have her tell you her answers as she does each problem.  If you can't get an answer key/teacher's manual, you will have to do the problems at the same time.  You want to see what her actual error rate is the first time out of the chute.  It is possible (likely, actually) that the homework is being graded on completion and that the Bs you are seeing are reflecting late submissions.  Anyway, you then want to have her find the errors herself as she does her homework.  If she has trouble with this, have her tell you out loud how she solved the problem.  Many times this will help the student see the error.  Being able to find silly errors in math is a learned skill that most students never get a chance to develop due to the way math homework is normally dealt with, especially if they don't have perfectionistic tendencies.

[Miss Tick]

8 hours ago, EKS said:

It is possible (likely, actually) that the homework is being graded on completion

Yes.

 

8 hours ago, EKS said:

Being able to find silly errors in math is a learned skill that most students never get a chance to develop due to the way math homework is normally dealt with, especially if they don't have perfectionistic tendencies.

Thank you. We do this a bit haphazardly, i will be more intentional. I appreciate the actionable steps, and your discussion captures what i think it's going on.