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Semester #2 of disability services run around


saraha
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So we are in the second semester of the disabilities office recognizing my dd’s issues. Last semester, she ended up with only one note taker in one class who just quit halfway through. She chose not to escalate her complaints at that time.  She decided to transfer to main campus in hopes of better supports. She still has no note takers, all but one professor was surprised when she went to them the first day of class with her Mike for them to wear and is just super disheartened. I went to the website and showed her how to make a complaint. Their process for resolution as stated in the website, can take up to 10 weeks if it has to wind all the way to Vice President of student affairs! The semester will be over by then 🙄

I showed her how to document making the complaint, then we talked about making hard copies of her accommodations letter to give to each professor personally during an office hours appointment with the accommodations she would need for that class highlighted. Then we wait. I am hopi g that by talking to each professor individually it will help with some of things she needs. I know that won’t get her a note taker though. 

I feel bad because it shouldn’t be hard. Or embarrassing, which is how she feels right now. I know the embarrassment is something she is going to have to deal with, but it’s so frustrating that the school is making it harder for her. I know she is not alone in the world of accommodations at college as one of my other dds, who is at a different university, is being privately paid by the family of a student to be her helper outside of class. It’s just hard to watch her struggle in a territory new to all of us. 
 

If anyone has advice or tips, I would really appreciate it, thanks!

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The notetaker part can be hard. My son had that in his accommodations. They couldn't always find someone and they can't make other students do it. They usually offered it as a way to get their service hours but that didn't always work.

As to the other stuff, have her first go into the disabilities office and talk to them. Often, the first week or two is crazy there. Kinks are usually worked at by the 2nd week. 

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1 minute ago, QueenCat said:

The notetaker part can be hard. My son had that in his accommodations. They couldn't always find someone and they can't make other students do it. They usually offered it as a way to get their service hours but that didn't always work.

As to the other stuff, have her first go into the disabilities office and talk to them. Often, the first week or two is crazy there. Kinks are usually worked at by the 2nd week. 

She has sent two emails requesting a meeting that have gone unanswered 

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1 minute ago, saraha said:

She has sent two emails requesting a meeting that have gone unanswered 

Have her walk into the office. They get a gazillion emails right before and at the beginning of the semester. It's hard to keep up.

The head of the disabilities department at my son's college went to our church. She worked 80 hour week or two before classes started and the same the first week or two. They are trying... but it's hard.

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I am sorry that she is having so much difficullty with this.  Is it standard practice at her university that she talk with each professor to ensure her accommodation needs are being fulfilled?  At all of the universities where I have taught, although as a professor I receive an accommodations letter, the letter specifically states that accommodations are to go into effect once the letter is delilvered to the professor and a conference is held between professor and student.  We are also required to keep a information confidential; so it can be touchy if a student approaches us in the classroom where others may overhear part of the conversation. 

As a professor, I know I would be a bit surprised if a student came up to me on the first day of class and told me that I was supposed to where a specific mic as part of their accommodations (I have not yet had that as an accommodation a student needed).  If the professor had not had a chance to receive the accommodations lettter, review it, notice which section a student who needed specific accommodations was in, I can see a bit of surprise with everything else going on the first day, especially if the professor was trying to keep things confidential. 

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Ugh, the amount of executive functioning required to get help for people who struggle with executive functioning is staggering.

DS couldn't get himself to the disabilities office last semester to even *start* the process (I had filled out all the paperwork I could, supplied him repeatedly with all links, pages, processes necessary and so on); fingers crossed he can get at least that far this time. And that he gets actual help as a result.
 

We've spent a fair amount of break applying for a reduced workload for the upcoming semester; even though it's pretty straightforward and he's had support at his university, there is zero way he could navigate the process on his own. I know it's helpful that I can take the lead, but I know in a way it makes him feel even worse that he can't do it on his own.

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I'm sorry she is having all this trouble. 
I agree with going in person to the disability office. Really, I'm a fan of always going in person to anything important that has to be done in a timely manner. 
I would encourage her to try to make friends in each class, get their phone number, etc. I know both of my daughters have freely shared their notes when someone misses the class.  This isn't to replace an official note taker, but it might help cover the gap until such can be found.
If the lectures are recorded, can she watch them later and slowly take notes? Or can she record them herself and do this? Not ideal, because that does take extra time, but it might be a stop-gap option? 
Is it possible a sibling to go to class with her and serve as her note-taker until the college can provide one? 


I do agree that she is learning valuable lessons on how to advocate for herself. It stinks that she has to do so, but at least some good will come from it. 

I hope she gets it all straightened out soon!
 

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4 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I am sorry that she is having so much difficullty with this.  Is it standard practice at her university that she talk with each professor to ensure her accommodation needs are being fulfilled?  At all of the universities where I have taught, although as a professor I receive an accommodations letter, the letter specifically states that accommodations are to go into effect once the letter is delilvered to the professor and a conference is held between professor and student.  We are also required to keep a information confidential; so it can be touchy if a student approaches us in the classroom where others may overhear part of the conversation. 

As a professor, I know I would be a bit surprised if a student came up to me on the first day of class and told me that I was supposed to where a specific mic as part of their accommodations (I have not yet had that as an accommodation a student needed).  If the professor had not had a chance to receive the accommodations lettter, review it, notice which section a student who needed specific accommodations was in, I can see a bit of surprise with everything else going on the first day, especially if the professor was trying to keep things confidential. 

She said the disability office emailed her and her professors the Friday before the first day of classes. Knowing they might not have seen the email (which all but one had not I guess) she just went a head and gave them the mic so she wouldn’t miss anything on the first day. Her plan today is to schedule meetings asap with her teachers. Reading the letter, it sounds like the email letter itself was the request for accommodation from her professors. This is the second week of school.

As a professor, in your experience, what would be the best way for dd to eat through your class? Her biggest accommodations are the mic to her hearing aid, sitting in a way where she can see faces so she can read lips of students during discussion and the need of a note taker? I know all schools are different but anything would be helpful after how last semester went

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1 minute ago, Bambam said:

I'm sorry she is having all this trouble. 
I agree with going in person to the disability office. Really, I'm a fan of always going in person to anything important that has to be done in a timely manner. 
I would encourage her to try to make friends in each class, get their phone number, etc. I know both of my daughters have freely shared their notes when someone misses the class.  This isn't to replace an official note taker, but it might help cover the gap until such can be found.
If the lectures are recorded, can she watch them later and slowly take notes? Or can she record them herself and do this? Not ideal, because that does take extra time, but it might be a stop-gap option? 
Is it possible a sibling to go to class with her and serve as her note-taker until the college can provide one? 


I do agree that she is learning valuable lessons on how to advocate for herself. It stinks that she has to do so, but at least some good will come from it. 

I hope she gets it all straightened out soon!
 

Those are some of the things she did last semester. It was super stressful for her as she could not always depend on people taking good notes, getting back to her with notes in a timely fashion and not wanting to feel like she was burdening people too often. When she recorded lectures, that was fine, but she didn’t feel comfortable recording students faces during discussion to lip read when the recording was hard to hear. She was hoping this semester would be a little easier. 

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DD24 just emails the professor as soon as she gets the names. She lets the know what her accommodation needs are and what has worked well in the past. Profs almost always have already received the paper work from DSS before dd contacts them.  Most profs, are easy to work with and seem to like that she knows what works and is clear on what she needs. If I remember right, there has only been one prof who pushed back (tried to deny her extra time etc). They were a brand new prof, so they likely didn't understand the legal requirements. That person kept causing issues all term, so I think next time, dd will involve DSS sooner if there is any push back. Usually, it is just working out how much extra time she can have on assignments and if exams are going to be done in a testing room or via video proctor. Sometimes she meets with a prof online, but most of it is all done in emails. That is nice too, so she has written proof of what was discussed. She once had to fight for a final grade adjustment and the emails, helped her win her case. I don't remember the details. An example would be, a prof decreased her grade for some late work, that her extra time accommodation made it due during spring break. He said it was past her accommodation date. She turned it in on the first day back from break. Her accommodation said she had 'x amount of school days' to make up work, which made spring break not count. so she won the case.

She qualifies for a note taker, but never used the accommodation. We figure it would be too hit and miss and she wouldn't be able to count on the notes being accurate. She does ask for prof notes (if available) and power points which again are hit and miss, since they are often in the profs own short hand. 

Your dd asking someone to use a mic, if she didn't talk to them prior, would seem odd to me. Yes, the prof needs to work with a student, but they are also people and need to have their feelings considered also. They would likely want to review the accommodation paperwork to see if it was listed and how to best achieve the goals written out, while also making sure they are legally protected too. To me...recording someone via a clip on mic falls into a different category of personal space than just a room recording. 

 

Emailing the prof, makes things really easy for dd. She can do it on her own schedule, proofread/edit to make sure she is clear and has written proof of what was discussed. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Tap said:

DD24 just emails the professor as soon as she gets the names. She lets the know what her accommodation needs are and what has worked well in the past. Profs almost always have already received the paper work from DSS before dd contacts them.  Most profs, are easy to work with and seem to like that she knows what works and is clear on what she needs. If I remember right, there has only been one prof who pushed back (tried to deny her extra time etc). They were a brand new prof, so they likely didn't understand the legal requirements. That person kept causing issues all term, so I think next time, dd will involve DSS sooner if there is any push back. Usually, it is just working out how much extra time she can have on assignments and if exams are going to be done in a testing room or via video proctor. Sometimes she meets with a prof online, but most of it is all done in emails. That is nice too, so she has written proof of what was discussed. She once had to fight for a final grade adjustment and the emails, helped her win her case. I don't remember the details. An example would be, a prof decreased her grade for some late work, that her extra time accommodation made it due during spring break. He said it was past her accommodation date. She turned it in on the first day back from break. Her accommodation said she had 'x amount of school days' to make up work, which made spring break not count. so she won the case.

She qualifies for a note taker, but never used the accommodation. We figure it would be too hit and miss and she wouldn't be able to count on the notes being accurate. She does ask for prof notes (if available) and power points which again are hit and miss, since they are often in the profs own short hand. 

Your dd asking someone to use a mic, if she didn't talk to them prior, would seem odd to me. Yes, the prof needs to work with a student, but they are also people and need to have their feelings considered also. They would likely want to review the accommodation paperwork to see if it was listed and how to best achieve the goals written out, while also making sure they are legally protected too. To me...recording someone via a clip on mic falls into a different category of personal space than just a room recording. 

 

Emailing the prof, makes things really easy for dd. She can do it on her own schedule, proofread/edit to make sure she is clear and has written proof of what was discussed. 

 

 

Thank you for your perspective. All her professors were forwarded the email from disability as soon as she received it with a message from her statingof who she is, told them she was hard of hearing and her is her contact info, which was the Friday before class. Which isn’t really fair to the professors for sure. She didn’t receive a response from any of her professors.


The mic doesn’t record, it sends sound in real time to her hearing aid.

If the professors didn’t read the email before class started, other than walking up and asking I don’t know what else she could do.

Edited by saraha
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My daughter uses a livescribe smart pen for note taking along with copies of power points and any other notes available.  Don't know if something like this would help, it records as she is taking notes and then can fill in what she misses.  https://us.livescribe.com/

My daughter has found it difficult and time consuming to get accommodations in place every single semester with each professor, should be easier but we have not found it to be.  She has meeting with disability office then which each individual professor sometimes the semester is almost over by the time everything is in place.

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ADDED: My daughter is dyslexic and has auditory processing disorder along with some other challenges and is in grad school so that may be different.  Most professors have been great but every single quarter there is one who challenges every accommodation on her form.  It's exhausting.

Edited by Splash1
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She is going into the disabilities office at the end of the day, so hopefully can catch office hours with most of her teachers before then. I think the thing she is most concerned with now is what is her responsibility to make sure is in place, what’s the professors’ and what is the disability offices. That way we aren’t expecting things from others or putting on her what is not actually their responsibility. I asked her if she wants me to attend the meeting but she said no. All of this disability stuff is new to us and I’m not sure what to expect. 

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53 minutes ago, saraha said:

She said the disability office emailed her and her professors the Friday before the first day of classes. Knowing they might not have seen the email (which all but one had not I guess) she just went a head and gave them the mic so she wouldn’t miss anything on the first day. Her plan today is to schedule meetings asap with her teachers. Reading the letter, it sounds like the email letter itself was the request for accommodation from her professors. This is the second week of school.

As a professor, in your experience, what would be the best way for dd to eat through your class? Her biggest accommodations are the mic to her hearing aid, sitting in a way where she can see faces so she can read lips of students during discussion and the need of a note taker? I know all schools are different but anything would be helpful after how last semester went

Was there a typo and did you mean the best way to "get" through class?  Or did you literally mean "eat"?  I am asking because I do have some students who have accommodations that they be allowed to eat, but given the context, it doesn't seem like that is what you are asking about.

First, it is important to know what the policies at her university are.  Does the policy state that the letter from disability services is a request for accommodations or that the the letter documents the accommodations and that the student must have a meeting or conference with the professor to put them in place?  Knowing this will make it easier to set expectations.

It sounds as if her accommdations fall a bit out of the normal accommodations that professor's are seeing.  She is not required to tell the professor her reason for needing an accommodation, but, if she is comfortable doing so, I think it would be much easier for a professor to accommodate these specific needs if the professor knows what the issue is.  I would suggest that she begin the semester with a well-crafted email, introducing herself, telling her professors as much as she is comfortable about what has been helpful, and asking if they would like to set up a meeting to discuss possibilities.  I would specifically mention the mic accommodation to prevent the professor being surprised the first day; in this I would mention how the mic attaches (sometimes these things are really designed for men's clothing) and how she will give the mic and collect the mic each class meeting (so that the prof isn't worried about confidentiality issues).

At this point, what are the accommodations that she needs that she is not receiving?  Just the notetaker?  I have heard of a few uniersities that provide a paid notetaker.  I don't have any good suggestions if it is a volunteer notetaker (which is the solution where I teach), because I have had classes in which it is very difficult to get someone to volunteer to provide their notes.  

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I was a note taker all through college. I was given special paper - it was similar to carbon paper (but wasn’t carbon paper) in that it automatically made two copies of whatever I wrote. I had to write in full sentences - no abbreviations or even truncated sentences. (The person I took notes for was completely deaf and wasn’t as conversant in “hearing English “.).  The person I took classes with had a sign language interpreter to the side of the teacher. I sat next to her in the student seats since I was actually taking the same classes. I was paid by DHS, I believe, but it’s been so long ago that that might be wrong.
 

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At our college, the disability office sends the accommodation letter to the professor; however, for any student with unusual accommodations (beyond extended exam time), they would also email the professor and explain the specific circumstances.
I had a student with hearing impairment last semester. I wore a mic, and she had software on her ipad that had the audio sent to a transcription service who transcribed my lecture in real time. The student was seated in the front row with an extra stool in front of her for her device.
Students usually sit in the same seats throughout the semester; it was never an issue for her to sit in this or the adjacent seat. If the seat would not have been available, I would have asked another student to move.

If the school cannot provide a notetaker, they are likely required to pay for such a professional service - this is a disability the are required by law to accommodate, and they cannot just shrug and say they can't. If a live notetaker is not available, they need to pay for the technological solution. I had several students use such services over the years.

 

Edited by regentrude
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1 hour ago, regentrude said:

At our college, the disability office sends the accommodation letter to the professor; however, for any student with unusual accommodations (beyond extended exam time), they would also email the professor and explain the specific circumstances.
I had a student with hearing impairment last semester. I wore a mic, and she had software on her ipad that had the audio sent to a transcription service who transcribed my lecture in real time. The student was seated in the front row with an extra stool in front of her for her device.
Students usually sit in the same seats throughout the semester; it was never an issue for her to sit in this or the adjacent seat. If the seat would not have been available, I would have asked another student to move.

If the school cannot provide a notetaker, they are likely required to pay for such a professional service - this is a disability the are required by law to accommodate, and they cannot just shrug and say they can't. If a live notetaker is not available, they need to pay for the technological solution. I had several students use such services over the years.

 

I am curious as to whether a lecture transcript is being interpreted as meeting the requirement of a notetaker.  

Where I currently teach, a transcript of the class and class notes are considered different accommodations, and a student may have accommodations that provide for BOTH.  Our faculty senate has taken on this issue because the university has decided its policy is that the responsibility for implementing accommodations lies with the professor, but as professors we have not been given the tools or resources to do this.   Professors are supposed to ask for volunteer notetakers and somehow miracoulously produce notes if no one volunteers, if the volunteer is absent, or if the volunteer spaces out one day and doesn't take reasonable notes.  Professors are supposed to ensure the quality of the notes by the volunteer notetaker and be the go-between for copying and handing off notes so that the recipient may remain anonymous.   The professors are pushing for the university to provide notetakers.  (We also do not have enough seats and time slots in our testing lab to provide extended time for all of those with accommodations and are supposed to create space out of thin air.)

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My ds's university requires him to work through the disability office and they then go talk to the professors. This reduces the load for the professors so they are only talking to one person for all students (who knows how the university handles things, what is required by law, etc), and reduces the load on the student for EF skills. We have been very pleased with this approach. 

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18 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I am curious as to whether a lecture transcript is being interpreted as meeting the requirement of a notetaker.  

Where I currently teach, a transcript of the class and class notes are considered different accommodations, and a student may have accommodations that provide for BOTH.  

How are notes fundamentally different from a transcript that provides all the prof says? I provide skeletal lecture notes to all students; any note taker would fill in the things I say that aren't on the slides - which the transcript does as well. If anything,  a transcript would be more thorough and quality would be higher.

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3 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I am sorry that she is having so much difficullty with this.  Is it standard practice at her university that she talk with each professor to ensure her accommodation needs are being fulfilled?  At all of the universities where I have taught, although as a professor I receive an accommodations letter, the letter specifically states that accommodations are to go into effect once the letter is delilvered to the professor and a conference is held between professor and student.  We are also required to keep a information confidential; so it can be touchy if a student approaches us in the classroom where others may overhear part of the conversation. 

As a professor, I know I would be a bit surprised if a student came up to me on the first day of class and told me that I was supposed to where a specific mic as part of their accommodations (I have not yet had that as an accommodation a student needed).  If the professor had not had a chance to receive the accommodations lettter, review it, notice which section a student who needed specific accommodations was in, I can see a bit of surprise with everything else going on the first day, especially if the professor was trying to keep things confidential. 

The first part is the same as my university. The professor I TA'd for would make initial accommodations but needed the formal letter to keep them in place. Delays were dealt with on a case-by-case basis. 

For notetakers, the professor would make a class announcement that a notetaker was needed (no student names mentioned). Notetakers were paid by the disability office $50 per semester. The two instances I had, in one I would just photograph & forward my notes to someone. The other, as the TA, the notes were forwarded to us and then we dispersed them to those students with accommodations. That gave the TAs a chance to review the notes to make sure they were decent enough to use. 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, regentrude said:

How are notes fundamentally different from a transcript that provides all the prof says? I provide skeletal lecture notes to all students; any note taker would fill in the things I say that aren't on the slides - which the transcript does as well. If anything,  a transcript would be more thorough and quality would be higher.

A transcript has everything that was said, but it is not delineated as notes would be of what is important.  All of the side comments are included, meaning that a student has to go through more material to highlight the important takeaways.  So, the university says that a transcript (while it might be one accommodation) is not targeted enough and organized enough to serve as a study aid.  So, a student who has accommodations of a notetaker (rather than simply a transcript) is receiving all of the benefits a student who is a good notetaker would have (summary, outline, highlight, visual connections like arrows, emphasis provided for things written on the board) rather than having to read through a transcript or watch an hour-long video recording.  In a course like economics in which there are a lot of graphs written on the board, having a transcript of the "demand curve moves from here to here, so now the equilibrium is at E1" is not nearly as helpful as having the notes with the graph drawn and marked on.  

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15 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

A transcript has everything that was said, but it is not delineated as notes would be of what is important.  All of the side comments are included, meaning that a student has to go through more material to highlight the important takeaways.  So, the university says that a transcript (while it might be one accommodation) is not targeted enough and organized enough to serve as a study aid.  So, a student who has accommodations of a notetaker (rather than simply a transcript) is receiving all of the benefits a student who is a good notetaker would have (summary, outline, highlight, visual connections like arrows, emphasis provided for things written on the board) rather than having to read through a transcript or watch an hour-long video recording.  In a course like economics in which there are a lot of graphs written on the board, having a transcript of the "demand curve moves from here to here, so now the equilibrium is at E1" is not nearly as helpful as having the notes with the graph drawn and marked on.  

Got it.

The hearing impaired student was attending class and could see what I am doing on the screen; she would be able to draw arrows and write etc herself once she can see the words that I am saying on her screen.

I can see the benefit of notetaking for a student who does not have the ability to write/draw, like the student I had a few years ago who was paralyzed and had very limited function in his hands.

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People underestimate how difficult it can be to give students something useful.  Wearing a mic is not a problem (I did it for a student at co-op), or are things like sitting in particular seats.  But, notes are hard.  As a student, I would have happily shared notes, but my notes are full of my own personal shorthand and I would have struggled to change it.  As an instructor, there are times when I could share that I have detailed notes to teach from and others when I couldn't.  I could easily talk for 90 minutes with a card that says 'Cell cycle, mitois, meiosis, cancer - don't forget checkpoints!'.  Biology has a lot of cycles, so students are often writing words as bubbles around a circle with arrows all over the place showing regulators and inhibitors.  This week I'll draw cartoons of some of the early DNA experiments.  One involves various strains of bacteria that do or don't kill mice.  So, I'll draw these little mice, with living ones and dead ones upside down with an X for an eye. As I talk, it's immediately obvious what is going on, but for a student who just has notes and didn't hear the lecture, or for a student who has a transcript but no drawing, I could see it being confusing.  Of course, for something purely factual, this info is easily found in a textbook or many other places.  That wouldn't necessarily be true if the class had a bunch of hypotheticals.  

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16 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Got it.

The hearing impaired student was attending class and could see what I am doing on the screen; she would be able to draw arrows and write etc herself once she can see the words that I am saying on her screen.

I can see the benefit of notetaking for a student who does not have the ability to write/draw, like the student I had a few years ago who was paralyzed and had very limited function in his hands.

It really does depend on the extent of the hearing impairment as well.  The student I took notes for could not take notes because her eyes had to be on the ASL interpreter the entire time to "hear" what was being said.  To try to write something would mean that she was missing the next thing. 

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Can I just say that I am amazed at what impaired students are capable of. The gumption being described is amazing. To think that we used to shuffle these kids into institutes and that they would never achieve to their potential. I know it is extra work for all you busy professors, and I as a member of society, very much appreciate the extra work you do to allow everyone to have a chance to participate in a full life of learning.

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Not knowing the subject matter, as I think about it, does anybody in the class type notes on a computer?  I much prefer to hand write and think that it leads to better learning, but a lot of students prefer typing because they are faster at it.  If anybody types notes, it might be easier to get notes from them because it's so easy to send a file (although absent students have often gotten notes by taking pictures on their phone).  Just a thought that might help in some classes.  

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I had a 504 for having a note taker and by grad school, I lugged a portable computer with me on a luggage cart to class because it was seriously better for me to take notes myself via typing (I can type and still hear, but writing takes so much concentration that I miss the content) and then used a tape recording to fill in gaps. As a result, I ended up being the unofficial note taker for other students, because I could email them a copy or give them a floppy. I took a printer to class if I knew I needed to turn something in, like an in-class essay.

 

At the time, things like math and science were hard because it was just text, but now, I would be able to get a copy of the powerpoint, pull it up, and type on it or even draw on it with a stylus

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Dd said the meetings with Disability Services and with her professors went well. I guess the director of disability services quit unexpectedly and the only thing in dds file was the letter she got last semester. Seems like everything is cleared up and everyone is on board. So happy and she is feeling much more confident.

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