Frustrated with first CC class...

[mlktwins]

So...DS1 is almost done with his 1st CC course.  I'm a little frustrated with how it is going.

He currently has a low A in the class (US History). He has done well with all his quizzes, group work on primary sources, perfect attendance, and participation. He had a mid-term essay due on 10/16 and didn't get the results back until 11/13 (the day after his short essay #1 was due). He got an 85%, which I'm not unhappy with I guess for a 1st college paper, but it took his grade from a 98% to a 93% so there is that.  He has tried since that time to meet with the professor to go over his mid-term essay to see where he can improve for the final. The professor told the class he would be happy to go over the mid-term line by line with any student who wanted to do so.

DS1 didn't really want to do this, but I encouraged him to get the feedback so he would have an idea how this worked when he goes away to college next year.  So from 11/13 to now, he still has not been able to get with the professor (in person or zoom).  I have the email trail for all of the contact, times missed by the professor, etc. 

So the short essay #2 is due tomorrow and the first short essay is still not graded.  He told the class last Tuesday that they would be graded by the next day (so 11/30). 

The short essays are 20% of the grade and the mid-term and final are 30% of the grade.

He is almost done with his short essay #2 and is using the grading rubric from the mid-term essay to try and cover his bases. There isn't any specific feedback - just the rubric.

He has his only travel swim meet of the year leaving Thursday and coming back  Sunday. He will have a good portion of his final exam essay written before he goes.

Last in-person class is in 2 days.

DS1 is reaching out one more time and then he is giving up.

Other than to vent, how will a possible B in a first CC class look to colleges when the kid has straight A's through Junior year?

 

 

[Roadrunner]

Sorry. I have heard so many similar stories. 😞

I also know kids with an occasional B in DE who ended up being accepted to marvelous and competitive schools. I know it’s stressful, but hope others agree with me that it isn’t as big of a deal. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Roadrunner

[rzberrymom]

My DH is an engineering professor, and he PREFERS the kids who have had a B or two. They don’t expect absolute perfection out of themselves and he finds them to be more resilient. The ones with the perfect 4.0 can be a bit fragile. Not sure how an AO would see it, but I imagine it could be similar.

 

Also, the number one skill my kiddo has learned from DE classes is to always always find a way to get to office hours.

 

I hope it works out for him! 🤞

[regentrude]

Sorry it is such a  frustrating experience.
But the B is not going to matter. 

[mlktwins]

14 minutes ago, rzberrymom said:

My DH is an engineering professor, and he PREFERS the kids who have had a B or two. They don’t expect absolute perfection out of themselves and he finds them to be more resilient. The ones with the perfect 4.0 can be a bit fragile. Not sure how an AO would see it, but I imagine it could be similar.

 

Also, the number one skill my kiddo has learned from DE classes is to always always find a way to get to office hours.

 

I hope it works out for him! 🤞

Thank you!  I was letting him handle the scheduling and was not even thinking about office hours.  He does offer appts by email and that is what they have been doing - between that and talking before and after class.  

So DS1 should be planning to be at campus an hour early on Tuesday if something doesn’t happen before then 🤣🤣🤣.

I wouldn’t think a B would hurt him for most of the schools he has applied to. He has had to really work for some of his A’s though.  

He definitely isn’t fragile regarding his grades. He will be on his own navigating this next year and I think it would be good practice to meet with the professor for something like this - especially since it was offered.

[catz]

I personally think a b especially when adjusting to DE is not a big deal at all. My daughter got one last year too.  She got 5 A's, 1 B.  One thing I was going to recommend for future sememters is check and see if the CC teachers are on Rate my Professor.  We forgot to check on that one teacher and his reviews are super clear that he's at least a somewhat unreasonable grader and a bit unorganized.  There are usually 20+ reviews for each teacher we look up at our CC, which is nice!  

[mlktwins]

10 minutes ago, catz said:

I personally think a b especially when adjusting to DE is not a big deal at all. My daughter got one last year too.  She got 5 A's, 1 B.  One thing I was going to recommend for future sememters is check and see if the CC teachers are on Rate my Professor.  We forgot to check on that one teacher and his reviews are super clear that he's at least a somewhat unreasonable grader and a bit unorganized.  There are usually 20+ reviews for each teacher we look up at our CC, which is nice!  

Both DS1 and DS2 looked at rate my professor and so did I.  This was a complaint about him in past semesters, but more current reviews said that he had improved in this area. Other than this, good reviews. If I had remembered to think about office hours, this would have been done already. But he could have reminded of office hours also. He knows DS1 is in high school and this is his first CC class.

DS2 chose a different teacher fo US History and is doing really well (he chose the 7 week class instead lf the 15 week class DS1 did).

 

[catz]

7 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

Both DS1 and DS2 looked at rate my professor and so did I.  This was a complaint about him in past semesters, but more current reviews said that he had improved in this area. Other than this, good reviews. If I had remembered to think about office hours, this would have been done already. But he could have reminded of office hours also. He knows DS1 is in high school and this is his first CC class.

DS2 chose a different teacher fo US History and is doing really well (he chose the 7 week class instead lf the 15 week class DS1 did).

 

OH that's a bummer.  RMP has been a great tool when we remember to use it but ugh, nothing is perfect I guess.

 

[regentrude]

9 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

 But he could have reminded of office hours also. He knows DS1 is in high school and this is his first CC class.

He may know, but I am sure he has a lot of other things on his mind and probably multiple sections with many students. If office hours are listed in the syllabus or online, then he can expect students to look for that information.
You don't usually get any extra considerations for being a high school student who is doing DE; it is expected that you can handle the class and all it entails just as well as the regular students.

Edited December 5, 2022 by regentrude

[kokotg]

Flaky professors are just a part of college life (as are professors with excellent intentions who are overworked and can't get to everything they want to). I wouldn't worry about a B (here DE grades are weighted like AP grades, so a B would count as an A on the transcript anyway), and I also wouldn't assume it will end up a B yet. My kids' experiences with a lot of their DE and college classes is that if they're struggling usually most other students are, too, and professors very often find ways to help students improve grades as the end of the semester gets close (particularly the students who are clearly making a good effort).

[mlktwins]

1 hour ago, kokotg said:

Flaky professors are just a part of college life (as are professors with excellent intentions who are overworked and can't get to everything they want to). I wouldn't worry about a B (here DE grades are weighted like AP grades, so a B would count as an A on the transcript anyway), and I also wouldn't assume it will end up a B yet. My kids' experiences with a lot of their DE and college classes is that if they're struggling usually most other students are, too, and professors very often find ways to help students improve grades as the end of the semester gets close (particularly the students who are clearly making a good effort).

Thank you! Yes, I know and do understand they are busy. I'm also annoyed that DS1 isn't being more proactive. In all honestly, he would rather not be bothered. I'm trying to tell both my guys that it will be important for them to get with their professors in college if needed.  DS1 (this one), takes pushing to contact any teacher about anything 🤷‍♀️. I just want to get them through high school at this point, and I'm trying to help get them ready (I was in college once a upon a time too) and then they will need to be on top of things themselves in college.

I did go into Canvas and if he gets an 80% on his 1 ungraded and 2 upcoming papers, he will have a 90.14% in the class. 

We will see... 

[mlktwins]

Just want to add that DS2 is taking the 2nd half of US History (DS1 is taking the 1st half of US History) with a different professor. The only grades for that class are 3 papers each worth 1/3 of the grade.  The professor gets them back to the kids very quickly and DS2 has a high A in his class. I guess he needs to get them back though because it is a 7 week class. 

[mlktwins]

So DS1 emailed him again yesterday morning and He responded at 2:40 saying let’s do 7 pm tonight (which was last night). Never sent a link to zoom or anything 🤪. Last chance is office hours this morning before class.  He did get his Essay #1 paper grade last night though and that was a 100%.  Maybe because he doesn’t want to be asked to go over papers anymore 🤣🤣🤣.

So he could get 70’s on each of his last 2 papers and get an 89.46. I would be shocked if he got a 70 on both of these, but who knows 🤷‍♀️!

Edited December 6, 2022 by mlktwins
Fix a bunch of early morning, before coffee, typos.

[Bootsie]

2 hours ago, mlktwins said:

So DS1 emailed him again yesterday morning and He responded at 2:40 saying let’s do 7 pm tonight (which was last night). Never sent a link to zoom or anything 🤪. Last chance is office hours this morning before class.  He did get his Essay #1 paper grade last night though and that was a 100%.  Maybe because he doesn’t want to be asked to go over papers anymore 🤣🤣🤣.

So he could get 70’s on each of his last 2 papers and get an 89.46. I would be shocked if he got a 70 on both of these, but who knows 🤷‍♀️!

Is there a link for ZOOM office hours on the syllabus?  Or is there a link through the Learning Management System?  I have links set up for online office hours in each of those places and would not send another ZOOM link out to a student who arranged ZOOM office hours.

[mlktwins]

34 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Is there a link for ZOOM office hours on the syllabus?  Or is there a link through the Learning Management System?  I have links set up for online office hours in each of those places and would not send another ZOOM link out to a student who arranged ZOOM office hours.

No link in the syllabus at all. He likes to be contacted via email, but doesn't check it super often (that is what I'm getting anyway).

After their final in-person class today, he asked DS1 if he still wanted to go over the paper, and DS1 said he was good, but thank you.

DS1 is turning in his 2nd short paper tonight and his final exam paper next Tuesday.  He is gone Thursday morning until late Sunday night for a travel swim meet so not really much time anymore.

He should be good and I guess this was a good lesson for both of us.

[ByGrace3]

I think DE for homeschool moms is harder than for the kids lol We are so used to having the control and for things to be fair.  My dd has a situation this semester where all classes went online for awhile due to a hurricane. Her DE precalc and trig class was a hybrid so they had 2 zoom meetings a week, for some reason the professor stopped doing zoom and moved the class fully "online" so no instruction at all and completely stopped emailing as well. My dd has had to teach the entire class to herself. So utterly frustrating. She has emailed so many times to no response. She has outmathed all of our go to tutors (high school math teachers) and have no one to help. She is doing ok but will probably end up with a B (probably an 88 or 89 ugh) and could have been such a different experience with a teacher.  

[Roadrunner]

23 minutes ago, ByGrace3 said:

I think DE for homeschool moms is harder than for the kids lol We are so used to having the control and for things to be fair.  My dd has a situation this semester where all classes went online for awhile due to a hurricane. Her DE precalc and trig class was a hybrid so they had 2 zoom meetings a week, for some reason the professor stopped doing zoom and moved the class fully "online" so no instruction at all and completely stopped emailing as well. My dd has had to teach the entire class to herself. So utterly frustrating. She has emailed so many times to no response. She has outmathed all of our go to tutors (high school math teachers) and have no one to help. She is doing ok but will probably end up with a B (probably an 88 or 89 ugh) and could have been such a different experience with a teacher.  

That’s a new normal. 😞 People are getting paid to do their jobs but instead are using excuses to stay home and still get paid for nothing. This has been our experience locally as my DS struggles to self teach in a number of difficult courses while teachers did nothing, barely could grade. Situation has been slightly better this year, but “oh I don’t have to go to work and will move classes online as I please” attitude remains. I wish I could say, “and oh, I don’t want to pay taxes then,” but obviously I can’t. 
I am sorry. 

[Clemsondana]

My kid has taken his first DE class this year.  It's entirely online.  We aren't too worried about it since this is a STEM kid taking an Intro to Psych class - not a prereq for anything - but, still...Kid says that most co-op classes are harder, that it's just read and answer the questions, that the book is online so it's searchable if one is inclined to cheat while taking the multiple choice tests, and grading is extremely slow.  Kid talked to a teammate taking DE English at the public high school, and they said that their English was similar and they had cheated quite a bit.  😞 There's no reason to make it so easy to cheat - use a paper book, have open-ended questions.But, kid said that throughout the class the psych instructor kept talking about ways to catch up, so even with that it looks like students were still falling behind or doing poorly.  

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, Clemsondana said:

My kid has taken his first DE class this year.  It's entirely online.  We aren't too worried about it since this is a STEM kid taking an Intro to Psych class - not a prereq for anything - but, still...Kid says that most co-op classes are harder, that it's just read and answer the questions, that the book is online so it's searchable if one is inclined to cheat while taking the multiple choice tests, and grading is extremely slow.  Kid talked to a teammate taking DE English at the public high school, and they said that their English was similar and they had cheated quite a bit.  😞 There's no reason to make it so easy to cheat - use a paper book, have open-ended questions.But, kid said that throughout the class the psych instructor kept talking about ways to catch up, so even with that it looks like students were still falling behind or doing poorly.  

Quality is so variable with CC classes. This is the reason my DS took AP exams even with DE credit in the same course. Nobody could question his AP score at least.

All DE at our high school campus is a joke. Much easier than a corresponding AP with a fraction of work. It’s basically an equivalent of regular honors courses. I don’t know how much longer these courses will be taken seriously by transfer institutions. CC is a mixed bag and heavily dependent on teachers. Some courses are super rigorous with averages at 75%, and those tend to be STEM courses designed for majors. Others? Don’t get me started. There was a teacher at my son’s friend’s Diff Equations class who assigned only two things the entire class and basically ghosted kids half the time. Online class of course. 🙄 No regards to the fact that those kids will be transferring to UCs unprepared for the next level. So in our situation we have researched very closely each teacher and doubled up on APs where it mattered. Or went with amazing homeschool providers (thank you CLRC!). 

[Bootsie]

I think there is a wide-range of DE and CC experiences across the country.  The way these programs are funded, and the amount of funding for the programs, varies greatly across the US.  Unfortunately, in some situations, the DE classes are taught by people who are paid very little and who would not qualify to teach at either the high school or at a four-year college.  In some situations the DE model has been a way for the high schools to shift responsibility of upper-level high school teaching to the CC (which can finanically benefit the high school).   CC are underfunded by state and local governments and classes are free-or close to free for students.  There is just no way to provide collegiate level education without appropriate funding.  

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

I think there is a wide-range of DE and CC experiences across the country.  The way these programs are funded, and the amount of funding for the programs, varies greatly across the US.  Unfortunately, in some situations, the DE classes are taught by people who are paid very little and who would not qualify to teach at either the high school or at a four-year college.  In some situations the DE model has been a way for the high schools to shift responsibility of upper-level high school teaching to the CC (which can finanically benefit the high school).   CC are underfunded by state and local governments and classes are free-or close to free for students.  There is just no way to provide collegiate level education without appropriate funding.  

I really wish this was just a matter of funding only. It isn't. 

Our high school pays well over $100K to PS teachers in salaries plus benefits, significantly above what I could get teaching at the excellent local private schools. Yet the quality of teachers (not all, but large segment) is terrible. We are scrambling to find resourses for stats and pretty much most courses need supplementation if you want to score well on AP exams. At best they teach to a 3, and the principal told me they don't care about AP scores. Well, some of us do.  It's a school culture. 

Some teachers and courses at CC are excellent, really excellent, but many don't care to show up to work, because they have recorded their lectures and would rather stay at home. And many students love it, because they get easy A's and a paper that tells them they are college educated. No incentive at all for quality because A's will transfer to a four year and why do work for it if you can get it without. 

OP, I am glad it is working out though. Word of mouth I still think is the best way to know what one is getting into with some of those classes.  I hope next semester you have better luck with professors. 

[Clemsondana]

I used to teach at a CC - I was a part-timer who did it as a way to keep a bit active while being mostly home with young kids.  I taught the Friday night or Saturday classes and it was mostly a great experience.  My class was real.  🙂  It was basically the same thing that I teach at co-op, only at a faster pace.  But, to be fair, when my good students from co-op take the AP, they tend to pass even though it's not an AP class...which seems right.  We've checked to see which classes are accepted as transfer courses at colleges that kid is likely to consider.  For something like Intro to Psych...it's not that hard most of the time even at big schools, so it was fine if kid just learned some stuff.  But, we're paying more attention to the math and science classes.  Kid will have Calc BC this year so likely only 1 more class at a CC.  Kid will do DE physics, but since kid wants to do computer eng, having a less-than-ideal first semester of physics (the Newtonian stuff) shouldn't be a problem - kid will take the more relavant second physics course after heading to college

But, the cheating as a common occurence...not ideal, and if they are headed to college it could come back to bite them.  

[mlktwins]

Well...class is over (as of Tuesday) and DS1 finally got back his Essay 2 with a 100%. He had to turn in his final paper before feedback on that essay as well. He would have to do pretty bad to lower his grade at this point though.

This experience gave us opportunities to talk about setting himself up for success when he heads to college next year so that was a good thing. I won't be there nudging him next year. He will have to do it on his own.

 

[mlktwins]

And...just to close out this thread, he got a 105% on his final exam paper 😵. No comments other than added 5 points for extra credit 🤷‍♀️. I think the professor was ready for winter break!!

So...that is done. DS1 currently has a fever of around 101 so this was a bright spot in his morning.