What purpose does this forum serve for you?

[pinball]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

To the OP:

I had pretty much decided that I was done with this thread, which has been interesting on a number of levels but IMO has run its course, but one thing has been nagging at me and I want to share it.

Most of us are or were homeschoolers.  Many if not all of us were, individually and as a group, condescended to by ‘educators’—ie by folks with jobs in education—teachers, education administrators, etc.—at various points in our homeschooling or homeschooling adjacent journeys.  They were the experts.  They knew best.  They knew the material.  They knew all about kids, who basically all needed their expertise.  They knew how to teach.  We were ‘just moms’.  We did not know anything.

Some of us suspected that that might actually be true, even though we had all gone to school ourselves and generally knew our own children better than anyone else possibly could.  Early homeschooling books pounded on these assumptions.  They talked about customization of teaching, about the coziness of setting a family-based schedule, and about learning in the ways that suit the child and family best, and about how we as moms were the very best equipped to do this.  We worked hard to do a great job of teaching our children in the ways that were best for them.  We united here around that commitment, and we helped each other to do so.

When you talk about math, and sometimes when you talk about other topics, you sound like those teachers, which raises our hackles for sure.  It is not surprising that that is particularly onerous to those here.  We are exactly the wrong audience to be treated that way.  

There are great ways to talk about teaching math and other topics that might be helpful to some of us and that would not make us bristle.  I’ll bet you could figure them out if you chose to do so.  If you do, I’ll bet you would be a great community member here.

 

That’s  happening (bolded) today…and since social media is farther reaching than it was years ago, more people are exposed to the idea that education is for professional educators ***ONLY***. Also, sex education and gender education MUST be addressed *IN SCHOOLS* by professionals, according to many of those professionals as well as politicians. 
 

In fact, there are quite a few posts on this board in the last few years that proclaim many, many parents should NOT be homeschooling. It’s funny (not funny) coming from homeschoolers. Talk about elitism.

[Robin M]

5 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

If you start a 26 books thread I’ll join you. 🤣 If I didn’t join 52 books during the first year of Covid it was never going to happen. I’m in a book club that meets monthly. A book a month is not enough and a book a week is too much when I’m not choosing the books. 

Lol!  How about a simple “what are you reading?”  Which anyone can start.  The goal of 52 Books changed some time ago when everyone decided to set their own goals or to simply just read what they wanted, but the title stuck.

 

 

Now back to your regular scheduled program….

[Melissa Louise]

I'm uncomfortable with the theme of 'when you grow up, you'll do better, like us.'

A lot of assumptions there.

The phrase 'log, own eye', keeps coming back to me as well.

There are very few perfectly social, consistently well-mannered, always well-regulated, never stoop to ad homs posters posting in this thread (but, nevertheless, there are a few! let me learn!) or on this board more generally. 

Eyes on one's own work, really.

~

I'm unsure why, when especially triggered by a poster, the default (once immediate feelings are done) isn't to reflect on why that is happening internally. This is not a workplace; posters can be quietly and infinitely avoided, so the only real lesson is why 'I' (general I) am experiencing this interaction so strongly.

I can think of two posters I have this intense reaction to.

Ultimately, that's a me problem. I've done a  lot of reflection over the years on one; not so much on the other, and with the one I've reflected on, I absolutely have a better understanding of the why (and it's nothing much to do with that poster). The why is a long term process of exploration, and can't really help me much with the interactions, but it does help me feel more at peace with the ignore, because it's not about that person at all, it's about me and where I am at in my personal timeline.  The end result is less interaction, which is OK for me, and definitely good for that poster. 

Maybe it was a gift that the poster pushed all my buttons, sometimes deliberately.

Groups offer everyone the same possibilities, if one understands that the problem isn't over there, in that other person, but in our own selves.

And that doesn't really change, regardless of whether we are the provoked person getting lots of likes or PM's, or whether we are the person being piled on, or the person feeling the 'original' wound.

 

 

 

 

[Scarlett]

4 hours ago, pinball said:

That’s true in my case…you started a thread asking for PMs and I thought something was wrong and you never replied.

Obviously I wasn’t in on THAT back channel!

By the time I saw your pm Rosie had asked me to drop the discussion and I was really mad about it so it did not seem wise to start venting to other people.  
 

 

[Dmmetler]

I came for the academics, but I'm still here for the social. Honestly, for the last 2 years, this has been my primary social outlet because my area has been "Covid? What's that???" since about May of 2020. Having said that, it does feel like every time I get out (last year I was homeschooling no one, this year M is homeschooling again and S is applying to colleges, next year M will be applying to colleges, but there's a pretty high chance C will be homeschooling) I get pulled back in :). 

[EKS]

Answering the original question...

I came here something like 20 years ago because I was desperate to find solutions for my son who was unable to learn in a classroom and only somewhat more able to learn one on one with me.  The advice I got from this board through the years is the reason he is a successful engineer today.  I am beyond grateful for that.

I stayed because I enjoyed the discussions about teaching and learning, the resource suggestions and reviews, and, later on, the discussions and encouragement surrounding college applications. 

The social aspect is the reason I've stuck around since finishing homeschooling in 2020.  I consider many of you to be friends, and I would miss you if I were to stop visiting ❤️

[Garga]

On 12/3/2022 at 2:51 PM, Not_a_Number said:

I think well-moderated Facebook groups can be a good resource (I used to run a babywearing one, in fact), but it's even harder to keep FB kind. I think it's the volume of (short) responses. Long form forums with fewer active members aren't as much of a bear to moderate. 

Does anyone know what the FB group is like? Do people still talk curriculum on there? .  

HAVE TO ANSWER HERE within the quote because I messed up somehow and won’t give me space below the quote:

On here the responses all come in one at a time in a column with the newest comment always being the last comment. 

On FB someone replies to a response. Then someone else replies. Then someone responds to the first person who replied. Five people respond to the second reply. Then someone replies back on the original person’s post. You have to keep clicking on original repliers’ names to see who has since replied to them and re-reading to figure out where you might have left off. It’s impossible. 

Here, I can open a thread and read it top to bottom and be sure I’ve seen every single reply. 

On 12/3/2022 at 2:53 PM, Harriet Vane said:

I'm a little puzzled when you say this closed down as a homeschooling resource, because this (the Chat Board) is just one forum of many on The Well-Trained Mind Forums. There are still discussion boards for young kids, high schoolers, curriculum, etc. The general chatter was simply pulled out to be its own sub-forum. 

Click on the first quote above to see my response to it.

 

This is the response to the 2nd quote: When I use WTM forums, I click on All Activity so that all of the subforms are lumped together in one place. The majority of the threads used to be homeschool or parenting related. Almost none of them are nowadays. And when I go to the specific subforums for homeschool (high school, etc), there are only a few posts there that are new. I’ve been here a long time and I used to refer people here all the time for homeschool info, but I don’t anymore because there’s very little here anymore that’s new. You can search and find old information, but precious little that’s new compared to the copious amounts there used to be. 

On 12/3/2022 at 3:42 PM, Not_a_Number said:

When did this get easier, out of curiosity? 

40 years old is when it started getting easier some of the time. And now at 3 weeks before my 50th birthday, it’s extremely easy all of the time. I can engage in a debate if I want to, but often I can just walk away and honestly not care. I used to be so tied down to making sure that I had explained myself fully and being heard and being understood. I simply do not care anymore if someone misunderstands who I am or judges me incorrectly. It’s very freeing. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Garga

[mathnerd]

I came here many many years ago, when my son was a newborn because I like to plan ahead. I am what might be termed as a "rigorous schooler" and I have benefited a lot from so many people who were ahead of me in this journey. There was a time when my child was elementary school aged, when I was desperate for solutions to meet the needs for my child and I have spent hours upon hours on the education forums and they influenced the paths that I have taken and shaped the intellect and interests of my child. In fact, those older threads and discussions were transformative for us. I don't post in those forums much anymore as there are many options available for older kids and I don't need to actively seek input anymore. I do answer questions if I see anyone in the same position that I was in a long time ago, because I do know how deeply influential the help I received was. So, I came here primarily for the deep discussions on education that was available, the kind people who took time to educate me and the depth of knowledge and expertise. I stay for the same reasons though I don't post much.

[MercyA]

Whew. Just read through this entire thread and after all the long, thoughtful posts I don't feel like I have much to add, but I just want to say, @Not_a_Number, I do like you. I think you are intellectually curious and have a deep interest in understanding *why* people think the way they do. I have never personally felt that your posts were unkind or mean-spirited in any way, just blunt.

I hope you'll stay.

[mom31257]

I came here in 2008 looking for homeschool support in academics, encouragement, etc. I found much more, including friendships online and in real life. I am finished homeschooling my own children, but I continue to assist others in homeschooling by teaching math online and tutoring. 

I have stayed for the social aspect of the group, but I hope I can offer advice or opinions here and there, though some of it would be dated. I wish I had more time to peruse the boards and participate in more discussions!  

[HomeAgain]

I have been around for a while, but I'm mostly here now for the thoughtful discussions about more diverse topics than I would get in my day-to-day life.  I spend my evenings in horrifying classes that pass for teacher training in my state and come here to find passionate discussions about the history of math or teaching specific skills.

I like the chat board, and it's a nice, more relaxing place, but it's the meat that keeps me here and encourages me to dig deeper.

Also, this thread took a weird turn, I'm not going to read every post but skim the pages, and I'll just say that sometimes, there are just peas in the rice.  Some people like peas, some don't, and there's the option of eating around them or sucking them down.  Same with the board.  I've only put one person on ignore because I couldn't deal with straight up nastiness, but I love that the feature is there for anyone who wants it.

[livetoread]

This board helped my kids get a more thorough education because while I didn't necessarily lean towards unschooling, most of my homeschooling community did, and my kids' friends were unschooled. It would have been easy to slide more in that direction, but I don't think my kids would have done as well with unschooling as some do. So I am deeply grateful that they could walk into college prepared for whatever major they decided they wanted thanks to the help I got on here.

I stuck around the chat board for the wealth of info from such wise people. I learned about things I never knew I needed to know about, let along things I did want to learn about! I enjoy hearing different views and I do think by and large the community behaves well for it being as diverse as it is. Drama exhausts me and I'm glad it's at a minimum here.

[KungFuPanda]

4 hours ago, Robin M said:

Lol!  How about a simple “what are you reading?”  Which anyone can start.  The goal of 52 Books changed some time ago when everyone decided to set their own goals or to simply just read what they wanted, but the title stuck.

 

 

Now back to your regular scheduled program….

Here I thought everyone was reading the same books for a year. I could not commit. 🤣

[Robin M]

33 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Here I thought everyone was reading the same books for a year. I could not commit. 🤣

Gak! Oh my goodness no. That would have driven not only me, but everyone else cuckoo. 

[EKS]

20 minutes ago, Robin M said:

Gak! Oh my goodness no. That would have driven not only me, but everyone else cuckoo. 

So regarding the book thing, it’s ok if we just post what we are currently reading?  It isn’t necessary to read 52 books a year?  Because I can totally do that!

[Clarita]

6 minutes ago, EKS said:

So regarding the book thing, it’s ok if we just post what we are currently reading?  It isn’t necessary to read 52 books a year?  Because I can totally do that!

I would totally join that even though I wasn't involved in the last one. Especially if I don't have to commit to sharing 52 books. 

[Robin M]

22 minutes ago, EKS said:

So regarding the book thing, it’s ok if we just post what we are currently reading?  It isn’t necessary to read 52 books a year?  Because I can totally do that!

Yep.  Since 52 books is officially ending at the end of the year, someone, it hasn't been established yet. will at some point, in 2023, will post a "What are you reading? thread.   Sorry it's so vague, but I don't know how much time I'll have so can't commit to a weekly thread in 2023.  In the meantime, until the end of the year, everyone is welcome to drop in to talk about your reads. 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Robin M

[lauraw4321]

::: Haven't read anything... ::

I first came to this board when I was starting homeschooling. I found so much wisdom here. About HS, about life, about parenting, about everything that anyone cared to bring up. And people have very different worldviews, lives, etc., yet this place tends to be a friendly, caring, thoughtful little corner of the internet. Thanks to everyone who contributes.

[Mom_to3]

I started reading this thread because the original question was a very good one, and I've enjoyed reading many of the answers. But just wanted to add that tracking likes on other people's posts to decide on interactions with members here seems...odd.

[Shoeless]

I came to this forum because I was googling about breast cancer, and one of @Quill's posts came up. I'd found a lump and was petrified. It ended up being benign, but I stuck around because it was nice to be in a homeschool world where people cared about learning and education.  I'm in a really weird corner of the world where people do NOT care and are frequently hostile about education, (we had one kook in the local homeschool group protest the library, for crying out loud).  This place also served as cheap therapy for me when I was going through a horrible time with my family of origin.  I had a few years where I could not speak or write rationally about my F.O.O. because the hurt was so deep. Then Covid came. I've spent the last 4 years working through my ish via the chat forum. (Thank you, everyone ❤️ )

[barnwife]

6 hours ago, Mom_to3 said:

I started reading this thread because the original question was a very good one, and I've enjoyed reading many of the answers. But just wanted to add that tracking likes on other people's posts to decide on interactions with members here seems...odd.

This is more or less me.

FWIW, @Not_a_Number, I know I've liked posts you have apparently tracked. For me, that doesn't mean I don't want to interact with you. I do find your posting-style (which could, of course, be very different from your IRL communication style) to be very brusque and to the point. I know that you really think things through and feel strongly about certain topics.

It is possible for others to have also thought about things and come to different conclusions and feel just as strongly. Sometimes, if I remember correctly, our conclusions are the same/similar, sometimes not.

Whether or not I agree with you on any specific topic, I enjoy reading well-thought out (well-laid out?) posts.

I do hope this thread has given you whatever you hoped to get from it.

 

[Scarlett]

On 12/3/2022 at 9:22 PM, Scarlett said:

Yes you are intense.  And that is ok.  You remind me of myself…..  I am 57 now and I have reigned that part of myself in quite a bit. Especially on line.  

I haven’t seen a theme like you mention below.  The above is my experience and it isn’t to say it will be or should be @Not_a_Number’s experience.  Since she seems upset by the responses she gets overall I thought I would share how it played out for me over a 20 year period.

17 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

I'm uncomfortable with the theme of 'when you grow up, you'll do better, like us.'

A lot of assumptions there.

The phrase 'log, own eye', keeps coming back to me as well.

There are very few perfectly social, consistently well-mannered, always well-regulated, never stoop to ad homs posters posting in this thread (but, nevertheless, there are a few! let me learn!) or on this board more generally. 

Eyes on one's own work, really.

 

 

 

 

 

I can’t recall ever clashing with @Not_a_Numberor honestly even being annoyed by her.  However I did not spend a ton of time arguing about Covid or masking etc.  I did notice at one point way back she had a lot to say about statistics and I saw a few others disagree with her but I did not realize there was actual bad feelings from her or anyone.  
 

She seems to have left this thread and as usual we just keep on. Lol.  

[Scarlett]

8 hours ago, Mom_to3 said:

I started reading this thread because the original question was a very good one, and I've enjoyed reading many of the answers. But just wanted to add that tracking likes on other people's posts to decide on interactions with members here seems...odd.

Well, I have only ever taken note if a post to me was VERY rude.  Even then I can’t now remember who said what or liked what.   

[teachermom2834]

You know, OP did kinda set this up as asking why people aren’t engaging with her and how can she engage on the forum in a healthier way without getting her feelings hurt. And people have proceeded to tell her, mostly gently, what sorts of things she is doing to ruffle feathers and what ways she might be able to look at things in a different way to see what problems she is having. No one has told her to leave as far as I have seen. She has asked for the feedback and most of it has been given as constructively as people have been able to, it seems. Telling her to keep on keeping on the way she is wouldn’t do her any favors, I don’t think. She did ask. 
 

She has asked why people don’t engage. People have said “this is why I don’t engage on your threads”. Some have been more pointed than others but mostly people are answering her question, not piling on. For someone who is brazenly blunt in her own posting, people are being pretty moderated in their tone to her, mostly. 
 

For the record, when I had frustration with NaN on a thread I addressed it on the thread and told her to knock it off and she did after saying that no one wanted to engage and she wasn’t welcome. In that case it was turning someone’s personal family situation into a forum for debate and I found it inappropriate and hurtful. But I said so publicly and there were no pms involved.  So it definitely was addressed publicly and in the moment. And now I just avoid so I don’t even know why I am here! Just to defend myself now I guess against accusations of piling on or pm back channels which is not the case at all. 

 

[marbel]

5 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Telling her to keep on keeping on the way she is wouldn’t do her any favors, I don’t think. She did ask. 

Pulling out this little bit - I agree with it (and the entire post). I think women often lean too far toward "being nice" at the expense of being truly helpful.

Like, I see this all the time, not just here - someone will post/talk about a specific issue they are having, and many people will say some variation on "you're doing a great job!" "you're a great mom!" without actually addressing the issue asked about. It actually has annoyed me when people have responded to me with that encouragement because it's completely without value. But sometimes that's what people actually want when they ask for feedback - they just want encouragement that they are doing great. And then there is surprise and hurt if the encouragement they expected doesn't come.

This is a general impression not specifically about posters in this thread or this board, But to be specific here, I do think the comments here were very kind and to the point, and I believe @wendyrooanswered the question asked in a direct, eloquent, and kind way. 

[Soror]

To the original question I came here for hs'ing info when I just started schooling ds and realized I didn't want to unschool. The parenting forum I was on had a hs section but it was nearly entirely unschoolers. I heard about WTM from someone on there and once I came over here pretty much abandoned the previous forum.

I still hs my 2 youngest (will just be 1 left after this year) but I rarely look on the education boards. If I do I almost always search for previous threads by favorite posters or for reviews. Mostly I continue to do what has been working. These days I'm mostly here for support threads, information, and a sense of community.

as to the rest of it--

I generally avoid debate threads. I don't enjoy arguing with people online or in person really. It usually just stresses me more than anything. You know the meme--- "Someone is wrong on the internet" usually I just think of that and let it go. I've learned far more just listening. The diversity of opinions here has been such a great teacher.

I also find that NaN is far from the only poster that is so sure of what others should do. Certain people have no issue telling others what to do when dealing with situations far outside their own. I find the arrogance and insensitivity to be off-putting. I have never been through a divorce or a custody situation so I sure as hell am not going to shame someone who is that they aren't doing things how I think they should. Sometimes things are hard and terrible and awful and there is no cure or fix. Sometimes the only solutions are bad ones and you do your best. I try to stick for support in such situations and offering up general info on things I do know about. Likewise when I solicit help I usually ask for people that have been in similar situations when it is a more specific thing. I don't want or need someone with honor roll kids telling me how to deal with my kid struggling to pass his classes. I just don't. 

side note: I will say for me I do not like that the forum instituted the whole reaction buttons making this more akin to social media. I do not find this a positive change. I find it hard to believe that NaN is the only noticing the likes or dislikes pile up for certain posts and posters. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Soror

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 hours ago, Soror said:

 

side note: I will say for me I do not like that the forum instituted the whole reaction buttons making this more akin to social media. I do not find this a positive change. I find it hard to believe that NaN is the only noticing the likes or dislikes pile up for certain posts and posters. 

The only place where I notice it are contentious threads. Like any community you get to know how certain people think. I will often notice that certain people tend to flock together so find it no surprise that X poster will like Y’s thread. I’m not “making note of it”  to moderate my future interactions though. I will say that I admire the objectivity of some posters very much. If I see them like a post that I disagree with, I will take a second look at that post trying to see what they see in it. Sometimes that will influence my own emotional reaction to the post because it makes me (hopefully) more objective myself   

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The only place where I notice it are contentious threads. Like any community you get to know how certain people think. I will often notice that certain people tend to flock together so find it no surprise that X poster will like Y’s thread. I’m not “making note of it”  to moderate my future interactions though. I will say that I admire the objectivity of some posters very much. If I see them like a post that I disagree with, I will take a second look at that post trying to see what they see in it. Sometimes that will influence my own emotional reaction to the post because it makes me (hopefully) more objective myself   

Yes, I’ve definitely thought deeper about something my initial reaction was to disagree with if someone I respected liked the post. In a few areas this has pretty deeply changed core beliefs about controversial topics. 

[Pam in CT]

re noting / tracking "likes" and etc-

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The only place where I notice it are contentious threads. Like any community you get to know how certain people think. I will often notice that certain people tend to flock together so find it no surprise that X poster will like Y’s thread. I’m not “making note of it”  to moderate my future interactions though. I will say that I admire the objectivity of some posters very much. If I see them like a post that I disagree with, I will take a second look at that post trying to see what they see in it. Sometimes that will influence my own emotional reaction to the post because it makes me (hopefully) more objective myself   

Me as well.  It's like a SLOW DOWN sign on a highway, when I otherwise might just zoom past.

 

I've also noticed -- not that this should be surprising, I'm sure it happens on other SM corners as well -- that people seem to use the feedback buttons somewhat differently. 

Some of us dish out "likes" rather promiscously; others are quite sparing.

Some of us only "like" posts whose content we AGREE with; others dole it out for "partial" concurrence (I agree with that late bit even if I don't agree with the first bit);

while others use "like" more like we're nodding along encouragingly in IRL conversation because we value the interaction itself, ah I understand your point and it is interesting even if I don't necessarily agree with it or fully agree with it.  (FTR this is how I tend to use it myself.)

Some of us use "like" to convey this exploration of a subject that is new-to-me is instructive and insightful and I appreciate your engagement even though it will take me quite a longer time than this thread to sort out my own perspective on it.  (I do this too; which is why not infrequently I'm "liking" both sides of a fairly animated back-and-forth.)

And then the other buttons:

Some of us use "thanks" as something of an amplification button, to convey thank you for articulating powerfully and succinctly something that I agree with;

Some of us use "thanks" rather than typing out a response along the lines of I truly appreciate your taking the time to articulate something sensitive or self-revealing even if I 100% full stop disagree with you.  I've noted some of the posters I count as role models doing this regularly.

Some of us use the "confused" button to convey a wide range of responses for which there is no other button. [ Over in Politics we've put language to that phenomenon, "confused emoticon doing some serious heavy lifting here"...]

 

So to my mind, over-emphasizing (let alone counting up and taking notes on ... ??! .... really?  ) the button-presses within a particular thread or from a particular poster (or etc) is... not really evidence based.  I mean, they are, literally, measurable.  They can be counted.  But when what those "likes" and "thanks" **mean** varies so widely, not sure what the point of the exercise is. 

 

But, shrug, YMMV.

[teachermom2834]

I’ve liked posts that I generally disagreed with the content of just because I appreciated the tone. Or wanted to say “I see you” or some other emotion that is just something other than passing by. Sometimes I just think I don’t exactly agree with the point but wow that was some beautifully crafted language you used to make it. Or sometimes I see a poster reflecting a point of view that seems out of character and then I’ll hit the like just to acknowledge that I see the open mindedness or whatever. Or sometimes my finger just slips…lol. 

[KSera]

19 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

I've also noticed -- not that this should be surprising, I'm sure it happens on other SM corners as well -- that people seem to use the feedback buttons somewhat differently. 

Anyone else find themself pausing longer than usual to decide which feedback button to use on this particular post? 😂 My inclination was the “thank you” but for some reason, since Pam’s descriptions of the sub text behind a “thank you” were so nice, I felt like it would somehow seem self-serving for me to then pick thank you, so I went with the generic “like” 🤣. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

21 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re noting / tracking "likes" and etc-

Me as well.  It's like a SLOW DOWN sign on a highway, when I otherwise might just zoom past.

 

I've also noticed -- not that this should be surprising, I'm sure it happens on other SM corners as well -- that people seem to use the feedback buttons somewhat differently. 

Some of us dish out "likes" rather promiscously; others are quite sparing.

Some of us only "like" posts whose content we AGREE with; others dole it out for "partial" concurrence (I agree with that late bit even if I don't agree with the first bit);

while others use "like" more like we're nodding along encouragingly in IRL conversation because we value the interaction itself, ah I understand your point and it is interesting even if I don't necessarily agree with it or fully agree with it.  (FTR this is how I tend to use it myself.)

Some of us use "like" to convey this exploration of a subject that is new-to-me is instructive and insightful and I appreciate your engagement even though it will take me quite a longer time than this thread to sort out my own perspective on it.  (I do this too; which is why not infrequently I'm "liking" both sides of a fairly animated back-and-forth.)

And then the other buttons:

Some of us use "thanks" as something of an amplification button, to convey thank you for articulating powerfully and succinctly something that I agree with;

Some of us use "thanks" rather than typing out a response along the lines of I truly appreciate your taking the time to articulate something sensitive or self-revealing even if I 100% full stop disagree with you.  I've noted some of the posters I count as role models doing this regularly.

Some of us use the "confused" button to convey a wide range of responses for which there is no other button. [ Over in Politics we've put language to that phenomenon, "confused emoticon doing some serious heavy lifting here"...]

 

So to my mind, over-emphasizing (let alone counting up and taking notes on ... ??! .... really?  ) the button-presses within a particular thread or from a particular poster (or etc) is... not really evidence based.  I mean, they are, literally, measurable.  They can be counted.  But when what those "likes" and "thanks" **mean** varies so widely, not sure what the point of the exercise is. 

 

But, shrug, YMMV.

This is eye-opening to me since you are one of those objective posters whom I admire!  Now I know more about how you use your likes! 

[Indigo Blue]

@Pam in CTyour posts cause me to do the “slow down”. Like….back the bus up, lol. 

I tend to like posts that I am genuinely appreciative of or highly relate to or agree with. 
 

If I start a thread, I tend to like all the posts to indicate that I am appreciative of the post in my thread….unless it’s really not nice. (I didn’t like all the posts in the last thread I started because I got really busy. 

I rarely pm people. 
 

I pretty much originally thought this was the way the likes were intended to be used, I guess. 
 

I almost never use the confused emoji. It looks like an eye roll to me. Sometimes I can’t interpret intent on that one, so I just leave it alone. 

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Different threads can get their own "like" etiquette.  When I was on the tackle threads we all "liked" all posts by everyone as a "we're all in this together" thing.  I noticed that we do that on the "healthy eating" thread now.  "Ignore This Thread" has it's own quirky etiquette on likes (as well as other things!) - and a trophy can often mean a "you go, girl!" as well as "congratulations" as well as "thank you". 

I tend to quote someone if I only like part of what they've said.  I feel like it's necessary to point out what I like and what I don't like!  (They might not feel like it's necessary that I do so!) 

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

re noting / tracking "likes" and etc-

Me as well.  It's like a SLOW DOWN sign on a highway, when I otherwise might just zoom past.

 

I've also noticed -- not that this should be surprising, I'm sure it happens on other SM corners as well -- that people seem to use the feedback buttons somewhat differently. 

Some of us dish out "likes" rather promiscously; others are quite sparing.

Some of us only "like" posts whose content we AGREE with; others dole it out for "partial" concurrence (I agree with that late bit even if I don't agree with the first bit);

while others use "like" more like we're nodding along encouragingly in IRL conversation because we value the interaction itself, ah I understand your point and it is interesting even if I don't necessarily agree with it or fully agree with it.  (FTR this is how I tend to use it myself.)

Some of us use "like" to convey this exploration of a subject that is new-to-me is instructive and insightful and I appreciate your engagement even though it will take me quite a longer time than this thread to sort out my own perspective on it.  (I do this too; which is why not infrequently I'm "liking" both sides of a fairly animated back-and-forth.)

And then the other buttons:

Some of us use "thanks" as something of an amplification button, to convey thank you for articulating powerfully and succinctly something that I agree with;

Some of us use "thanks" rather than typing out a response along the lines of I truly appreciate your taking the time to articulate something sensitive or self-revealing even if I 100% full stop disagree with you.  I've noted some of the posters I count as role models doing this regularly.

Some of us use the "confused" button to convey a wide range of responses for which there is no other button. [ Over in Politics we've put language to that phenomenon, "confused emoticon doing some serious heavy lifting here"...]

 

So to my mind, over-emphasizing (let alone counting up and taking notes on ... ??! .... really?  ) the button-presses within a particular thread or from a particular poster (or etc) is... not really evidence based.  I mean, they are, literally, measurable.  They can be counted.  But when what those "likes" and "thanks" **mean** varies so widely, not sure what the point of the exercise is. 

 

But, shrug, YMMV.

Holy heck.

That's a lot.

~

I like things because I read them and think, 'I like that'.

Press 'thank you' because I'm thinking 'thank you for saying that'.

Press 'sad face' because a post is sad.

I don't really use confused face because it feels passive aggressive to me.

~

I did not know other people use these things in all these different ways.

More and more I am thinking groups need a whole manual for some of us to even have the chance of successfully engaging.

 

[catz]

Pam's post is totally relatable to me.  I am probably an aggressive "like" user.  I actually prefer the like button functionality over the days of 20 quotes with "I agree" if anyone else remembers those days.  I have definitely used like in all those ways.  And I know when I'm reading on my iPad, I hit that like all the time without necessarily intending to but when I'm scrolling one handed on a mobile device I don't care enough to scroll back and unlike no matter what the post said.  And at the same time, there are posts I think are great while scrolling on a mobile with one hand just because it's more effort and I'm doing 2 things at once that don't get a "like".  

I also think that gets into bandwidth of individuals.  Not everyone who comments or likes has the time or energy to actively engage in back and forth discussion in an online forum.  I don't get sucked in like I used to.

At the end of the day, I would hope most aren't overthinking and analyzing use of the likes.  

Edited December 5, 2022 by catz

[Clarita]

I'm a promiscous "like" user. I push "like" to show people I heard their post and taking it into consideration as well as I totally agree with everything you are saying.

I have also more than once have to apologize on various social media outlets and chat things because I slipped and selected an inappropriate emoji. Happens more often in FB and Nextdoor while I'm trying to scroll and/or see the replies. (Yes I did not mean to 🤣 at the plumber recommendation).  

[Melissa Louise]

I think the OP's 'likes' comment, btw, has been taken a bit out of context.

I think she is just looking for clues about who might be not happy with her particular brand of being on their threads, so she can avoid putting her particular brand of being on their threads.

I know that clue gathering might sound a bit mad to some, but man, this place is a freaking labyrinth to negotiate! At least, I find it that way, being fairly clueless.

It's not malign; it's just data gathering?

[pinball]

4 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The only place where I notice it are contentious threads. Like any community you get to know how certain people think. I will often notice that certain people tend to flock together so find it no surprise that X poster will like Y’s thread. I’m not “making note of it”  to moderate my future interactions though. I will say that I admire the objectivity of some posters very much. If I see them like a post that I disagree with, I will take a second look at that post trying to see what they see in it. Sometimes that will influence my own emotional reaction to the post because it makes me (hopefully) more objective myself   

 

3 hours ago, Katy said:

Yes, I’ve definitely thought deeper about something my initial reaction was to disagree with if someone I respected liked the post. In a few areas this has pretty deeply changed core beliefs about controversial topics. 

Hence why this place is addressed at Hive Mind

[knitgrl]

On 12/3/2022 at 5:20 PM, Terabith said:

I mean, I would never, ever have known to prepare for covid without the hive, but in February 2020, I was telling everyone I knew it was going to be a big thing and buying a pulse oximeter and stocking up on groceries.  It made me look prescient to my real life people. 

Confession: I accidentally contributed to the great toilet paper scarcity of March 2020

In early February 2020, dh said the corona virus thing was serious and we should stock up on groceries in case we have to be quarantined for a few weeks. I came here to get some ideas on what to stock up on. And at the very tail end of someone's list was... Toilet paper. I said to myself, "Huh. I never thought of that! That is something I do not want to run out of!" So, every week or two, when I went grocery shopping, or just happened to be out and about, I bought some extra cans of this and that, and a twelve pack of toilet paper. After doing that for a little over a month, we were totally fine with TP through the end of May/early June. Thanks, WTM forums!

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, knitgrl said:

Confession: I accidentally contributed to the great toilet paper scarcity of March 2020

In early February 2020, dh said the corona virus thing was serious and we should stock up on groceries in case we have to be quarantined for a few weeks. I came here to get some ideas on what to stock up on. And at the very tail end of someone's list was... Toilet paper. I said to myself, "Huh. I never thought of that! That is something I do not want to run out of!" So, every week or two, when I went grocery shopping, or just happened to be out and about, I bought some extra cans of this and that, and a twelve pack of toilet paper. After doing that for a little over a month, we were totally fine with TP through the end of May/early June. Thanks, WTM forums!

ME TOO!  When the Hive made it clear that covid was going to be a thing, and people talked about stocking up their pantries, I sat down and made a list of things we'd want if we were quarantined for several weeks, but I also thought about what things were fairly shelf stable that I could stock up on a little at a time.  So every time I went to the grocery store in February and the first part of month, I rotated through buying one of several shelf stable items, including toilet paper.  I felt kinda guilty when I realized that we had like four 12 packs, because I had only brought one inside, in addition to the mostly full one we were using.  I also had one in the trunk of each car!  

I also stuck stuff in our freezer, but our freezer is really small.  Prior to the pandemic, we were mostly "shop the day we need something" people, because honestly, I figured it was a way to up my step count and because we didn't have a lot of storage.  We also had to clean out the pantry, and then we did a big pantry stocking shopping trip on Leap Day.  I also had a list of perishables that I kept on my fridge, so that if I got a sign that everything was shutting down, I could immediately run to the store and know exactly what to get. 

Honestly, the preparations were really helpful, except for the part where I had like four boxes of honey nut cheerios, which my oldest was subsisting on at the time, but then oldest decided they were sick of honey nut cheerios and didn't want to eat them anymore....

[SKL]

I'm very stingy with likes.  Not really sure why.  Maybe it goes back to the days when the number of likes we could use were limited, and I ran out sometimes.  😛

Anyhoo ... usually if I like a post, there's a specific reason different from "yeah I agree" or "nice to see you."  I might like a post if it offers a really unique perspective / profound impact on the conversation.  I might like a post because damn, she has balls to say that but glad she did.

I don't remember if I liked the post that first called out the OP's posting style.  (And I'm not gonna go back and check.)  The poster is, as far as I know, not a pot-stirrer type.  The post was worded respectfully although the substance clearly challenged the OP.  I watched quietly for a while to see how the post would be taken by others.  The post clearly got our attention in an interesting way.

As for noticing who likes what ... I've done this at times, especially on the rare "attack without substance" posts.  TBH I am rarely surprised at who likes those anyway.  😛  I probably shouldn't look, but it's hard to stop myself at times.

[Garga]

I posed on the first page and 24 hours later saw that people had quoted me, so I replied to them on page 8. 

But after reading the posts after mine on page 8 I need to go back and read pages 2-7. What in the world happened on this thread! 😄 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Garga

[Not_a_Number]

Hey all! 

I'm actually not done with this thread -- I just needed to take a bit of time to process the vast quantity of input. Plus, the site is blocked during the day for me (it sucks me iiiiiiin), and I had a date with DH yesterday :D. 

I'm about to make a loooooong response post, but I thought I'd let you know I'm still around. 

[Corraleno]

7 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Different threads can get their own "like" etiquette.  When I was on the tackle threads we all "liked" all posts by everyone as a "we're all in this together" thing.  I noticed that we do that on the "healthy eating" thread now.  "Ignore This Thread" has it's own quirky etiquette on likes (as well as other things!) - and a trophy can often mean a "you go, girl!" as well as "congratulations" as well as "thank you". 

I tend to quote someone if I only like part of what they've said.  I feel like it's necessary to point out what I like and what I don't like!  (They might not feel like it's necessary that I do so!) 

Some people also click the Thanks button on every post if they start a thread, just as a way of saying "thanks for replying to my thread," even on posts that may be aggressive or not helpful. Sort of like saying "thanks for coming" at the end of a party, even if some of the guests were less than pleasant.

I tend to be pretty promiscuous with Likes, if I agree with anything in a post (even if I disagree with other things), or if I think it's especially thoughtful or well written (again even if I don't totally agree), or just to say "I hear you." I tend to use the Thanks button in two different ways: as an actual "thanks" and as a sort of "super like," more like "that was awesome, I totally agree, have a trophy."

ETA: I really really wish we could have two of the old emojis back: the group hug one and the willy-nilly one. Those are super useful and none of the current emojis really replace those. I often see posts where it seems like both the sad button and the like button are equally appropriate, and what I really want is the group hug button.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Corraleno

[Not_a_Number]

Hey all, 

As promised, this is going to be long! 

First of all, a big thank you to everyone who's contributed. This is something I've been thinking about a lot, so the input is tremendously useful. 

There are also some things that struck me specifically, so get ready for a long list 🙂 . 

Thanks to those of you (like @teachermom2834, although there were others) who've explained how someone who doesn't like debating interacts with the forum. This is (obviously) not how I am, and as is usual with forum communication, I do too much projection. So this is very helpful for me to hear. 

@happi duck -- I love the "interactive magazine" concept! It's really stuck in my head for some reason. 

@SKL -- thanks for the many thoughtful responses. I always find your perspective interesting and very... rational, I think! It's always interesting to read. 

@Quill -- thanks as usual for your eloquent and shrewd responses. I always appreciate that you like debating like I do, LOL, and also that you're willing to weigh the evidence and change your mind. I think that's a rare trait!

@Melissa Louise -- I really appreciate your radical openness and honesty. And your willingness to face what you (and other people) are really like. 

@Carol in Cal. -- thank for many wise words. You've said lots of good stuff, but what's coming to mind right now is the point about how homeschoolers are likely to be leery of experts. I hadn't thought of that, and it's a wonderful point. 

@lewelma -- as always, I really appreciated your thoughts. And your summary of how I work things out made me feel very seen, which is a cool feeling. In my family, "seeing" people like that is my job, and my parents don't see me at all, so... it was kind of a novel experience. Thank you. 

Hmmm, rereading the thread (to remind myself of comments that I liked) I can see that I sound defensive, which was not at all my internal experience! That's interesting. I know someone on here suggested I look over old threads, and it's a good point -- it's interesting to see it from the side. 

@wendyroo (and everyone who agrees) -- I was hurt and sad to read about how you experience my posts, but at the end of the day, I appreciate your candor. Having reflected, there are things you'd like that I can't change, but I hear you. 

There are probably other people whose posts struck me, but I've run out of steam on rereading the thread 😂. Again, thanks very much for everyone's input, and sorry if you didn't get a shoutout! 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Not_a_Number

[Garga]

I kinda wish I’d read this all earlier so I could contribute earlier. And I have no idea if this will come across as really mean or not.

Not a Number, I do have an issue when you post on threads. It’s nothing to do with being overconfident or anything—it’s all about being the total center of the thread. 

What happens is that you post so much that you derail so many threads. Of course, we’ve all derailed a thread and threads often take many turns, but it’s different with you. Once you start posting, you end up replying to everyone so much that the entire thread ends up being you at the center, with spokes of conversations to everyone else. 

I come into a thread to hear what everyone has to say in reaction to each other, but once you start posting so much, it ends up just being everyone reacting to you and you replying back to them. After a few pages of every few posts being from the same poster, I leave the thread. I even did it with this thread. After pages 2, 3, and 4 were filled with posts from you going back and forth about the same issue, I just couldn’t bring myself to read pages 5, 6, 7, and 8 which were also all about you.

I’m not saying you have to do anything about it, but once I see you’ve replied 10 or more times on a single thread, I realize that the rest of the thread is probably going to be all about you and what you’re saying to everyone and I leave it.

 

Of course, some threads really are about one person, particularly if they’re talking about some sort of personal issue and are giving out info, but I find that with you, the number of threads that end up being about you are excessive.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Garga

[Not_a_Number]

@Garga -- I've never known you to be mean, and you weren't at all mean this time 🙂 . (Although amusingly, you did give me a bit of a fright -- I get e-mail notifications when the site blocked, and I can only see the first sentence so of each post, so all I could see was musing about whether something was mean but not the post itself! So I had a bit of a sense of foreboding when checking the site!) 

You're absolutely right. I get way too post-happy. And I don't think about what that does to the thread, but I should. 

[BakersDozen]

On 12/3/2022 at 12:52 PM, kristin0713 said:

I used to use it primarily for researching homeschool curricula. Now I use it for getting opinions quickly on a wide variety of things (best robot vacuum? Where to find xyz? Parenting teens question #1675894458273485) and also just time to read and zone. I'm not interested in debating hot topics, but I do find it enlightening to read a variety of opinions. 

I'm late to this so will just quote and agree. 🙂 I have been on/off again here since my #4 was born in 2000 (I think?). I come here first when there is a newsworthy topic and I want to read both sides w/o ugliness. Teen/young adult issues? Crazy narcissistic mom issues? Or just to indulge at the end of a long day and browse through what everyone is chatting about? The Hive is the one place that has remained consistent over these many years. And it feels so, so wonderfully good to see those who have remained even after their homeschooling journey has come to an end. It's just a good place for me to have no matter what is going on in my life. I post rarely (save for You Can't Make This Stuff Up topics) and don't have much to offer, but I love lurking.

On FB the question is often posed as to what sites/resources the btdt moms recommend. WTM/The Hive is always my suggestion.

[mlktwins]

12 hours ago, Garga said:

I kinda wish I’d read this all earlier so I could contribute earlier. And I have no idea if this will come across as really mean or not.

Not a Number, I do have an issue when you post on threads. It’s nothing to do with being overconfident or anything—it’s all about being the total center of the thread. 

What happens is that you post so much that you derail so many threads. Of course, we’ve all derailed a thread and threads often take many turns, but it’s different with you. Once you start posting, you end up replying to everyone so much that the entire thread ends up being you at the center, with spokes of conversations to everyone else. 

I come into a thread to hear what everyone has to say in reaction to each other, but once you start posting so much, it ends up just being everyone reacting to you and you replying back to them. After a few pages of every few posts being from the same poster, I leave the thread. I even did it with this thread. After pages 2, 3, and 4 were filled with posts from you going back and forth about the same issue, I just couldn’t bring myself to read pages 5, 6, 7, and 8 which were also all about you.

I’m not saying you have to do anything about it, but once I see you’ve replied 10 or more times on a single thread, I realize that the rest of the thread is probably going to be all about you and what you’re saying to everyone and I leave it.

 

Of course, some threads really are about one person, particularly if they’re talking about some sort of personal issue and are giving out info, but I find that with you, the number of threads that end up being about you are excessive.

I originally wasn’t going to post in this thread, but then @Garga posted and it is exactly what I wanted to say. I feel Not a Number is very attention seeking in the threads she starts or when she over-posts in other’s threads. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by mlktwins