What purpose does this forum serve for you?

[Not_a_Number]

This is something I've been grappling with since coming back to the forum. I've had a long, hard year, but also one in which I've finally felt empowered to make big changes that have really improved my relationships. And an important part of that has been figuring out what my true needs are and and what I find intolerable. I've been working on letting go of the illusion that I can control people. And that has also required doing quite a lot of pruning, because if I can't control people, I have to accept that some situations aren't viable, and I need to end them. 

Thinking about myself, the thing I like best about forums is getting access to a wide variety of viewpoints. I'm just one person, and one person is by definition limited in perspective. So hearing from other people -- both responses to specific questions and just getting exposure to very different worldviews -- is very valuable to me. 

On the other hand, I know I'm not the only one on here who can get keyed up and flustered by conversations on here, and that's not always good for my mental health and by extension my primary, non-virtual relationships. And that has led to me thinking about what it is that I need from these forums. What their purpose is for me. What I can and can't reasonably expect from them. 

A visual that came to me this morning is the idea that a forum is like having a whole crowd of people milling in a town square, and some of them grab megaphones and start speaking. And while you might think you're talking to the small group of people who grab megaphones first to reply, you're really talking to anyone at all who's there, even if you can't hear them that instant. And one can very easily lose sight of that: that we're all really shouting into a space with a TON of people, not just a select group. 

So... I'd love to hear people's reflections on what works for them on forums, and what purpose the forums serve for them. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Not_a_Number

[Grace Hopper]

Diversity of viewpoint

[teachermom2834]

Different viewpoints. Experiences of others that have BTDT with real life experiences with kids, parents, neighbors, doctors, whatever. Often I am here for very practical information like a recommendation for a vacuum cleaner or a recipe or a household tip. I have learned a ton over the years. 
 

But debate here is not fruitful to me. I don’t want to argue or be forced to defend myself. So I don’t offer opinions on controversial subjects just for the sake of debate. I know some people enjoy that but I do not. When I do get sucked into that it is because I’ve offered an opinion I intend to help someone or I’m defending myself in a situation I asked for advice. But I’m not here to argue or have conflict. I do not enjoy that at all. 
 

It really is okay to offer a take and then move on or not reply to every comment. 

[happi duck]

To me, the Hive is an ever changing, interactive magazine filled with an amazing group of voices!

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, teachermom2834 said:

It really is okay to offer a take and then move on or not reply to every comment. 

Yes. I'm not good at doing that, and I've been thinking about how that affects me. 

In real life, I really like engagement. I like the Socratic method for teaching, for example. And I like debating. 

But debating on forums is a different sort of beast.

Out of curiosity, do you like debating in general or no? 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, happi duck said:

To me, the Hive is an ever changing, interactive magazine filled with an amazing group of voices!

A magazine. Interesting. 

When I think "magazine," I think that most of my interaction with it is passive. I don't talk to the voices in a magazine. I just read, have my own opinion, and move on. 

Is that a good model for you most of the time? 

[Garga]

Not too long ago, the majority of the posts on the forum were actually homeschool related. I was here constantly getting tons of ideas for curriculum and ideas for teaching every subject under the sun at every grade level. I learned an amazing amount of information about parenting and became a better parent for the time spent here learning about gentle parenting. You know how they say that kids don’t come with a manual? Well, this was the next best thing. Whatever issue I was having as a parent, 50 other people here had had it, too, and had figured out how to deal with it in a constructive way.

Then all the homeschool and parenting posts moved over to Facebook (I’m assuming), which I think was a terrible loss. FB isn’t designed to be properly searchable in a way that these forums are. I wasn’t able to handle the way FB is set up so I haven’t been on the WTM FB page in ages.

I was lucky in that just as this forum was mostly closing down as a homeschool resource, my homeschooling journey ended. (Though I do wish there was more about parenting on here. I could ask, but in the past, the forum was chock full of people bringing up parenting issues that I could read ahead of time and learn from. Now it’s just once in a blue moon.)

So, now I’m here because I love having a place to talk and listen to people who will also talk and listen. They won’t just spout a thoughtless meme, but will actually form opinions and arguments that make some sort of sense. I forget that most online interactions consist of someone blindly parroting something they’ve heard, followed by someone blindly parroting some opposing viewpoint they’ve heard, and sometimes I accidentally get sucked into a conversation that I think will be enlightening, but just turns out to be a bunch of nonsense.  But here, people have to defend their stances and they do so with respect and thought.

I also appreciate the diversity of opinion. I’ve been on these forums for 14 or so years, and they’ve absolutely changed who I am as a person in an entirely positive way.  

Edited December 3, 2022 by Garga

[teachermom2834]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Yes. I'm not good at doing that, and I've been thinking about how that affects me. 

In real life, I really like engagement. I like the Socratic method for teaching, for example. And I like debating. 

But debating on forums is a different sort of beast.

Out of curiosity, do you like debating in general or no? 

No I’m not really into debating in general. 
 

And not everyone who replies on a thread is entering a Socratic discussion 🙂 It is definitely not why I am here.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, teachermom2834 said:

And not everyone who replies on a thread is entering a Socratic discussion 🙂 It is definitely not why I am here.

Obviously not. I'm just speaking for myself.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Garga said:

Then all the homeschool and parenting posts moved over to Facebook (I’m assuming), which I think was a terrible loss. FB isn’t designed to be properly searchable in a way that these forums are. I wasn’t able to handle the way FB is set up so I haven’t been on the WTM FB page in ages.

I think well-moderated Facebook groups can be a good resource (I used to run a babywearing one, in fact), but it's even harder to keep FB kind. I think it's the volume of (short) responses. Long form forums with fewer active members aren't as much of a bear to moderate. 

Does anyone know what the FB group is like? Do people still talk curriculum on there? 

[kristin0713]

I used to use it primarily for researching homeschool curricula. Now I use it for getting opinions quickly on a wide variety of things (best robot vacuum? Where to find xyz? Parenting teens question #1675894458273485) and also just time to read and zone. I'm not interested in debating hot topics, but I do find it enlightening to read a variety of opinions. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I get to pretend like I have friends, because I really have none in real life. Work and parenting special needs kids really has left no time or energy to build friendships in the last 10 years.

[Harriet Vane]

3 minutes ago, Garga said:

Not too long ago, the majority of the posts on the forum were actually homeschool related. I was here constantly getting tons of ideas for curriculum and ideas for teaching every subject under the sun at every grade level. I learned an amazing amount of information about parenting and became a better parent for the time spent here learning about gentle parenting. You know how they say that kids don’t come with a manual? Well, this was the next best thing. Whatever issue I was having as a parent, 50 other people here had had it, too, and had figured out how to deal with it in a constructive way.

Then all the homeschool and parenting posts moved over to Facebook (I’m assuming), which I think was a terrible loss. FB isn’t designed to be properly searchable in a way that these forums are. I wasn’t able to handle the way FB is set up so I haven’t been on the WTM FB page in ages.

I was lucky in that just as this forum was mostly closing down as a homeschool resource, my homeschooling journey ended. (Though I do wish there was more about parenting on here. I could ask, but in the past, the forum was chock full of people bringing up parenting issues that I could read ahead of time and learn from. Now it’s just once in a blue moon.)

So, now I’m here because I love having a place to talk and listen to people who will also talk and listen. They won’t just spout a thoughtless meme, but will actually form opinions and arguments that make some sort of sense. I forget that most online interactions consist of someone blindly parroting something they’ve heard, followed by someone blindly parroting some opposing viewpoint they’ve heard, and sometimes I accidentally get sucked into a conversation that I think will be enlightening, but just turns out to be a bunch of nonsense.  But here, people have to defend their stances and they do so with respect and thought.

I also appreciate the diversity of opinion. I’ve been on these forums for 14 or so years, and they’ve absolutely changed who I am as a person in an entirely positive way.  

I'm a little puzzled when you say this closed down as a homeschooling resource, because this (the Chat Board) is just one forum of many on The Well-Trained Mind Forums. There are still discussion boards for young kids, high schoolers, curriculum, etc. The general chatter was simply pulled out to be its own sub-forum. 

[Grace Hopper]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I think well-moderated Facebook groups can be a good resource (I used to run a babywearing one, in fact), but it's even harder to keep FB kind. I think it's the volume of (short) responses. Long form forums with fewer active members aren't as much of a bear to moderate. 

Does anyone know what the FB group is like? Do people still talk curriculum on there? 

A downside of the fb group is you lose any veil of anonymity (though really on the internet no one is truly anonymous). 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Harriet Vane said:

I'm a little puzzled when you say this closed down as a homeschooling resource, because this (the Chat Board) is just one forum of many on The Well-Trained Mind Forums. There are still discussion boards for young kids, high schoolers, curriculum, etc. The general chatter was simply pulled out to be its own sub-forum. 

They are much, much less active. They are even less active than they were when I joined about 4 years ago. I miss them being more active. 

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yes. I'm not good at doing that, and I've been thinking about how that affects me. 

In real life, I really like engagement. I like the Socratic method for teaching, for example. And I like debating. 

But debating on forums is a different sort of beast.

Out of curiosity, do you like debating in general or no? 

I used to be more argumentative here than I am now.

At some point I told myself I should just formulate one statement on my opinion and post one time (vs. the back-and-forth).  I don't exactly stick to that, but I've improved.

Thing to remember is that you probably aren't ever going to change anyone's mind here, no matter what you say or how you say it.  On mildly controversial topics, I will often just put my two cents in just to point out that there are other views out there.  I try not to even open hotly contested topics any more.

I like to gather different views and experiences on many things.  I like to offer my views and experiences where it seems likely to help or support someone.  People can take it or leave it.  We are all mature adults here.

[kristin0713]

2 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I'm a little puzzled when you say this closed down as a homeschooling resource, because this (the Chat Board) is just one forum of many on The Well-Trained Mind Forums. There are still discussion boards for young kids, high schoolers, curriculum, etc. The general chatter was simply pulled out to be its own sub-forum. 

The homeschool talk is nowhere what it used to be. It's slowed wayyyyyy down. I've been on here for 12 years and the forums were much more active all over back then. It seems that the chat group is the only one that moves fast these days. 

[Harriet Vane]

For me:

Originally as a source of homeschooling and parenting information. 

Also a way to keep my mind occupied while sitting next to a child who needed my presence while working on schoolwork. 

Also amusement and general information and advice on lots of topics. 

I'm not homeschooling any more and my kids are grown, but I still appreciate the diversity of voices and perspectives on all the topics. During the pandemic I've most appreciated the top-notch scientific information and discussion. I could say the same for my engagement with the politics group.

More recently, accountability for exercise and diet. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Depends on the post. 

If it's a request for heath related information then the purpose of this forum is to give me help from a wide variety of people who have a wide variety of health needs in their family and who can sometimes point me to things that my doctor and general health websites can't.  And for me to do the same for them.

If it's a homeschool curriculum related post the it's simply to give reviews and information on homeschool curriculum.  Since I'm no longer homeschooling, I answer those questions I can about curricula that I used with the caveat that my information might be a bit old.

If it's a homeschool philosophy related post then it's to discuss homeschool philosophies in a forum that actually has people who have a philosophy. 

If it's a parenting question then it's to support each other and to get support in parenting and to give advice as much as we can, while realizing that people will take what helps them in their family and will leave the rest.

If it's a general societal post then it's to shoot the breeze about general societal issues in (hopefully) a respectful way that broadens my horizon or sometimes hones my own views.

If it's one of the accountability posts then it's about accountability and support from people with similar goals, while recognizing that we are all muddling through and doing our best.

If it's a Covid post then it's getting the best information out there currently while guarding against minimization and disinformation.  The history of the last few years and the seriousness to people's lives makes me unwilling to "just let things slide". 

If it's some of the shooting the breeze threads then it's about filling time while I'm bored and tickling my funny bone. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

At some point I told myself I should just formulate one statement on my opinion and post one time (vs. the back-and-forth).  I don't exactly stick to that, but I've improved.

It's a good idea. 

 

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

Thing to remember is that you probably aren't ever going to change anyone's mind here, no matter what you say or how you say it.  On mildly controversial topics, I will often just put my two cents in just to point out that there are other views out there.  I try not to even open hotly contested topics any more.

Actually, I think it's more complicated. You might change someone's mind, but you're probably more likely to change someone's mind eventually by posting something well thought-out and leaving it be than you are by engaging with someone who feels attacked and defensive. 

It's different if someone is seeking engagement. But that's the exception and not the rule. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Not_a_Number

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

The homeschool talk is nowhere what it used to be. It's slowed wayyyyyy down. I've been on here for 12 years and the forums were much more active all over back then. It seems that the chat group is the only one that moves fast these days. 

A lot of the most active people on this forum are no longer actively homeschooling.  And many of the newer homeschoolers (but not all!) are doing defacto schools (co-ops, tutorials and publicly funded online schools) where most of the core subjects are provided for them. 

[Grace Hopper]

5 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I'm a little puzzled when you say this closed down as a homeschooling resource, because this (the Chat Board) is just one forum of many on The Well-Trained Mind Forums. There are still discussion boards for young kids, high schoolers, curriculum, etc. The general chatter was simply pulled out to be its own sub-forum. 

I agree that there’s a difference between the chat and other Ed forums on this site. But I also do remember the significant change that happened here years ago when a bunch of folks initially jumped over to the fb group (and then apparently some dissention occurred over there - though I don’t know exactly what it was about - and a number of people just left altogether).

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Jean in Newcastle said:

A lot of the most active people on this forum are no longer actively homeschooling.  And many of the newer homeschoolers (but not all!) are doing defacto schools (co-ops, tutorials and publicly funded online schools) where most of the core subjects are provided for them. 

Then there's me 😂. We don't use curriculum at all and I feel very odd about that in real life. Less so on the forums, but I would guess I'd have felt more at home earlier on. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Grace Hopper said:

I agree that there’s a difference between the chat and other Ed forums on this site. But I also do remember the significant change that happened here years ago when a bunch of folks initially jumped over to the fb group (and then apparently some dissention occurred over there - though I don’t know exactly what it was about - and a number of people just left altogether).

Are you in the FB group? 

[Carol in Cal.]

I came for the brilliance, the homeschooling, the sense of something unusual in common with a group (ie classical homeschooling), the parenting discussions, the shared love of great children's books and activities, and iron sharpens iron of discussion.  I've stayed past many of those things being directly relevant to me for the outstanding crowd sourcing, friendships with some of the participants (mostly online friendships, but still not insignificant), and opportunities to learn, grow, and share.  

I've benefitted a lot from being here and I think I have been able to help people, too.  My writing has definitely improved, among other things.  I'm grateful for the forums.

But in generally I mostly don't see them as one to one conversations.  So I would never answer absolutely every post in a thread, and I don't necessarily even answer follow up questions all the time as that can get very OTT.  I try to be nice and communicate when I'm finished, but my one to one convos are generally in PMs or elsewhere.

[SKL]

I also agree that the homeschooling / educating talk has slowed down a lot.  Really can't comment on why ... but it seems to have coincided with the b&m school shutdowns in 2020.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Carol in Cal. said:

I try to be nice and communicate when I'm finished, but my one to one convos are generally in PMs or elsewhere.

That's wise of you, I think. I haven't acted like that all the time (except with conversations that are obviously going to be controversial), and I probably should.

[Grace Hopper]

2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

A lot of the most active people on this forum are no longer actively homeschooling.  And many of the newer homeschoolers (but not all!) are doing defacto schools (co-ops, tutorials and publicly funded online schools) where most of the core subjects are provided for them. 

That’s a great point, Jean. I think a significant number of people moved on to classical conversation forums. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, SKL said:

I also agree that the homeschooling / educating talk has slowed down a lot.  Really can't comment on why ... but it seems to have coincided with the b&m school shutdowns in 2020.

I think COVID was incredibly divisive. I'm pretty sure some people left over that. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Then there's me 😂. We don't use curriculum at all and I feel very odd about that in real life. Less so on the forums, but I would guess I'd have felt more at home earlier on. 

Depends.  Do you unschool?  This board has never been as friendly to unschoolers.  It is a forum that was started as a spinoff to a book on how to homeschool using a neoclassical philosophy, after all.  But some of us (I think of 8 as my compatriot in this) rely more on "living books" and less on textbooks. 

[Grace Hopper]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Are you in the FB group? 

No, I was invited when it formed, declined, then invited to a splinter group that apparently formed after the fray, but declined that also.  

[Carol in Cal.]

15 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I get to pretend like I have friends, because I really have none in real life. Work and parenting special needs kids really has left no time or energy to build friendships in the last 10 years.

Hugs!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I do have true friendships from and on this board.  I have met many people in real life (at the airport as well as at homes etc).  I text daily with a number of WTM friends. 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Depends.  Do you unschool?  This board has never been as friendly to unschoolers.  It is a forum that was started as a spinoff to a book on how to homeschool using a neoclassical philosophy, after all.  But some of us (I think of 8 as my compatriot in this) rely more on "living books" and less on textbooks. 

Not usually. I took a break from working with DD10 last year while there was a lot of family upheaval, but generally I design their work and teach them. They also have teachers for things I can't teach well. 

I'm not neoclassical (we focus more on things I'm qualified to teach, not neoclassical subjects), but I'm not an unschooler by philosophy. I also tend to use living books over textbooks. 

[Annie G]

For me, it’s like a neighborhood. We moved a few years ago and left behind our friends of many years.  So while we’re making new friends, we of course have more acquaintances than real friends. You guys are like walking through my neighborhood. There are folks I smile and nod to, some we stop and chat with, and others we’re starting to really get to know. In the neighborhood there’s gardeners, dog owners, folks struggling with illness or family issues. We’ve got young families, retired folks,etc.  It’s just a lot like here- diverse group. I learn a lot here, and it’s been good for me to have this same group to come to all these years. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I do have true friendships from and on this board.  I have met many people in real life (at the airport as well as at homes etc).  I text daily with a number of WTM friends. 

Yes, one of the boardies became a member of my real-life "co-op." (I'm realizing it's not a true co-op, so maybe I shouldn't describe it as such. It's a loosely structured group of families where the kids are friends and who also take classes together a la carte.) And I've met a few others. 

[regentrude]

This forum, or specifically the Chat board?
I came to the WTM forum while homeschooling my kids and have received immense benefits from getting questions answered and seeing others' perspective. I have stayed around after my kids were done homeschooling to offer my experience and insights in questions where I feel that could be helpful.

Now the Chat? Socializing, a pleasant diversion; some interesting questions, some conversations with voices whom I have come to know and appreciate. Kind of like chatting at the communal well or marketplace. 
I find myself here more often when I am lacking in-person socializing, but even when that is filled, I like to keep in touch because I feel I know some folks and am interested in what's going on.

Edited December 3, 2022 by regentrude

[Grace Hopper]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Not usually. I took a break from working with DD10 last year while there was a lot of family upheaval, but generally I design their work and teach them. They also have teachers for things I can't teach well. 

I'm not neoclassical (we focus more on things I'm qualified to teach, not neoclassical subjects), but I'm not an unschooler by philosophy. I also tend to use living books over textbooks. 

My oldest started learning before TWTM was published. I (and others in my circles at the time) simply used the scope and sequence published by World Book - it was easily accessible on their web site. It was easy to just teach whatever skills were listed those early years. A dedicated, resourceful parent could perhaps use it for many years. 

[rebcoola]

I mean originally I came for some curriculum reviews or something. Than I started just exploring.  I don't really need homeschool help at this point though I may come back to that as my caboose baby gets to school age.  

Mostly it's like being able to chat with friends at any random time of day that I have a few quiet moments.

[Not_a_Number]

14 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

My oldest started learning before TWTM was published. I (and others in my circles at the time) simply used the scope and sequence published by World Book - it was easily accessible on their web site. It was easy to just teach whatever skills were listed those early years. A dedicated, resourceful parent could perhaps use it for many years. 

Interesting!  

I've taught at the college level so I have strong opinions on what kinds of things kids need to learn in the early years... we've been focusing on that. We'll see if I was right or wrong eventually, I suppose. (Although my kids are gifted, so perhaps they'd do fine academically whatever I did. Who can say? )

[Indigo Blue]

I’m learning from a lot of women (and men) who are very smart. I need to hear people’s opinions on things that are conflicting inside me. 
 

I also like to, unfortunately, dump some negative feelings here when I feel a strong need. 
 

I like to come here to laugh and be light…to discuss light, fun topics. 
 

I just feel like I’ve gotten to “know” some that are here, and it’s a comfortable, safe place to go. 
 

 

[Pawz4me]

My kids are adults and we're a long way past our homeschooling years, but this has continued to be my favorite place on the internet because of the diverse group of people here, and because they almost always have more informed and educated opinions on various topics than I'll ever be able to find in real life. Certainly I get invested in some discussions, and my younger self had some trouble walking away (so to speak) sometimes. But in recent years I've found myself perfectly capable of expressing an opinion and letting it go. I know my life would be less without this place and being able to discuss things with all of you.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

But in recent years I've found myself perfectly capable of expressing an opinion and letting it go.

When did this get easier, out of curiosity? 

[happi duck]

55 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

A magazine. Interesting. 

When I think "magazine," I think that most of my interaction with it is passive. I don't talk to the voices in a magazine. I just read, have my own opinion, and move on. 

Is that a good model for you most of the time? 

Interactive is the key word in my post.  

To me, magazine implies variety of topics, authors etc.  Ever changing means sometimes it's a news magazine or humor or family or health etc etc.

I think "ever changing" and "interactive" indicated that I don't see the Hive as passively flipping through People Magazine in a waiting room.

[marbel]

I initially came to talk about homeschooling but quickly found that I didn't really fit in here (though I used and liked TWTM associated materials, I was a bit less rigorous than many/most here). So after a time I exclusively visited the chat board. 

As others have noted, I used to have a hard time walking away from some discussions and while I don't think I ever needed to have the last word on something (hope not anyway) I have learned to just stop talking after expressing an opinion. I don't like a lot of back-and-forth where I feel I have to defend myself/my thoughts. Mostly I like to stick to threads on food, books, and other fun stuff, and stay out of medical and deeply personal/relational topics (though not always). 

[Not_a_Number]

13 minutes ago, happi duck said:

Interactive is the key word in my post.  

To me, magazine implies variety of topics, authors etc.  Ever changing means sometimes it's a news magazine or humor or family or health etc etc.

I think "ever changing" and "interactive" indicated that I don't see the Hive as passively flipping through People Magazine in a waiting room.

Totally missed the "interactive," my bad! 

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

A lot of the most active people on this forum are no longer actively homeschooling.  And many of the newer homeschoolers (but not all!) are doing defacto schools (co-ops, tutorials and publicly funded online schools) where most of the core subjects are provided for them. 

This.

There are far fewer old-school homeschoolers out there. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, ScoutTN said:

This.

There are far fewer old-school homeschoolers out there. 

Do you think it's "fewer" or they are "rarer"? Like, I wonder if the total numbers have gone up... 

[ScoutTN]

I came for the homeschooling expertise and experience: curriculum reviews, educational philosophy, general how-to and ideas. Now, at the end of my homeschooling journey, the college related help has been fabulous! 
 

I stayed for the conversation, both substantive and light. After this May, I will no longer be a homeschool mom, but I will still be here.

I too have irl friends from these boards.
 

 

[Not_a_Number]

I really miss the homeschooling-related areas being more active. I mean, there are only so many people who want to geek out about the details of how to teach math, but that's what I came here for originally, lol.