Violin moms - buying a violin for dd14

[EmilyGF]

Hi all,

I'm trying to decide whether to buy a violin for dd14, and, if so, how expensive of one to buy.

For context, she has played since she was 6/7 and wanted to play since she was 4. She is an excellent player, and does violin outside the house 5 days per week (lesson, youth symphony, performance class, paid practice helper to younger students). During COVID, she went from loving violin her whole life to hating it, but we persisted and she seems to be back at about 90% of the love she used to have for it. She's working on a movement from a Hadyn concerto right now.

She's now on a full-sized violin and we are close to maxing out rent that we can apply towards buying a violin. Barring unforeseen circumstances, she'll certainly be playing until she graduates from high school. She has made clear that her life path does not involve being a professional in the field of violin.

We would need to buy a violin from the company which we rent from, and their low-end violins run $1250, $2250, $3750, and $4250. After they, you "request the price" and we are not going to buy a violin with a price too high to list! Her teacher has offered to come and help pick out a violin, but I'm not even sure what category to look at.

How did you decide when/if to buy a violin? How did you choose a price point? 

Thanks, Emily

EDITED for clarity.

Edited November 7, 2022 by EmilyGF

[HomeAgain]

You do not have the option of going into a shop?

When I bought my violin, I made an appointment with a specialized store.  We talked through my needs and abilities before stepping foot in the place, and that helped set the budget. (dh was "whatever you want, we'll pay for it".  I was not that cavalier) When I did go in, they had a selection of instruments and bows for me to do a blind listen with. I then held and worked with each one.

I would not have bought a violin without listening to it.  They are all slightly different in depth and tone.  But I was very glad to have the guidance of someone who could listen to what my needs were and help make a decision about the budget that way.

FWIW, I ended up with a good quality student violin.  I spent around $600.  The ones in the shop definitely ranged into the "ask for price" craftsmanship.  I would have expected to pay around $1500-$2000 for a decent "rest of my life" instrument.

[EmilyGF]

Oh, we'll definitely go into the shop, and DD's teacher will come with us. I'm just worried that they'll say to spend as much as we possibly can, and I want to have a better sense of what price range to look at beforehand.

[Lecka]

I would ask the teacher what the cheapest one is that your daughter could get a good sound from.

 

I would explicitly ask if there is a level below which she would be hindered in her youth symphony.  And — by how much.

 

If she is in a lower tier than students who do plan to continue on, and would not be as competitive with them, based on her tier of violin, but short of that, a lower tier would meet all her needs — I think, think about that.

 

I would ask if the cheapest one is generally satisfactory.  Is the cheapest one meant only for adult beginners?  If not — it might be totally fine.  
 

If the cheapest one is only meant for adult beginners — maybe not.  
 

I would also ask what tier your daughter’s current violin is equivalent to.  I could see wanting to keep her current tier or higher.

 

If your daughter is playing different ones at the store — I do think it would be good to already have a price idea and talk to her about “well that is for people who are more serious.”  
 

Your daughter might know from youth symphony, what tiers that other students have gotten.  She might have an idea of what other students have gotten.

 

On that note, do you care if she would be embarrassed if her youth symphony ran towards more expensive violins even if they would not be necessary.  

[Lecka]

I think you could ask both the violin teacher and the store.

I would not automatically think the store would upsell you.  

I think for a lot of things, they won’t bring up budget to you, but if you bring it up to them, they will talk to you about it.  
 

I would describe your daughter as a serious high school student.  
 

Even if she was a really serious student — I don’t know if a lot of parents would buy the higher-tier violin until closer to college.  
 

Also, are you someone who would want and be able to buy a more expensive one if your daughter played one in the store and loved it?  I think if that is your situation — it’s fine to go for it.  If it’s not your situation — she will be okay 🙂

[Lecka]

If she wants to be less serious-serious she might not want a higher tier violin, too, because that can signal being more serious.  
 

I don’t know.  I haven’t been in orchestra in 20 years.  
 

But I would not be surprised if your daughter knew some of this.  
 

If her teacher is someone who gives private lessons to very serious students, the teacher may usually recommend a higher tier.  
 

I would also see if your daughter wants her teacher to know she is not planning to pursue violin seriously.  
 

I would also ask — is this the age where you would buy the violin to last through college and adult life, assuming she would play through college and as an adult?

 

Or is this a violin for the next 3-4 years?

 

I hope you get some other responses!

[EmilyGF]

Thanks, @Lecka. Those are great questions to ask. I hadn't thought of thinking about this as a high school violin and keeping up the option of buying a new violin if she changed her mind later and wanted to continue studying in college. I also hadn't considered that it might hold her back in Youth Symphony, but that's a good point. 

We have a good and open relationship with her teacher, who knows the struggles DD has gone through in the past two years, and has worked with us getting DD re-excited about violin. It was so touch-and-go for a while that it looked like she might quit. I feel comfortable talking about this with her and with a second teacher at DD's studio who knows her well.

Thanks for all the things to think about!

[maize]

Your daughter should pick the violin, within whatever price range you decide is affordable, that she finds the most joy in playing. 

Higher price doesn't always mean better sound, and different people like different sounds. I would ask for violins in X price range, then compare the way the violin plays and sounds without comparing prices. Maybe follow a process something like: play four violins and set aside her favorite of those four. Play four more and set aside her favorite of those. Once she has four favorites, play those and narrow it down to two.

Your daughter has enough experience that I wouldn't rely too much on the teacher's opinion--the primary factor should be which instrument your daughter loves. It can be nice though to listen to an instrument from a few feet away as well as under the chin, so once you have narrowed choices down to a few she could have the teacher take a turn playing while she listens.

Instruments from the same maker can vary quite a lot, so don't limit yourselves to one sample of each model.

[gardenmom5]

we didn't rent - I bought.  I sold it for her college bills as she wouldn't be playing.  A few years ago, her dh asked (he learned) if she wanted diamond earrings to go with her engagement ring and she said she wanted a viola.  I contributed. (I'd planned on buying her a viola as a grad school graduation gift - but she got married and my money went there.)

  Violinslover.com  They have sound samples for each instrument, and of course Sharmusic

what I learned when buying - changing out:

the tailpiece and fine tuners 

strings

making sure the bridge is set-up properly

all can make a huge difference in sound for any level of instrument.  You can have a local luthier set it up

 

[EKS]

1 hour ago, EmilyGF said:

We would need to buy a violin from the company which we rent from, and their low-end violins run $1250, $2250, $3750, and $4250.

Am I the only one who is stunned that a low end violin is $4250?

Also keep in mind that the bow makes a difference in the sound as well.

That said, I would talk to the teacher beforehand and ask what price range she thinks is reasonable for sound and value.  If that price is acceptable to you, look at those and have your daughter pick the one that speaks to her.

[maize]

In general, I am in favor of getting the nicest sounding instrument that is reasonably within your budget. A nice instrument makes practice so much more pleasant, and while most kids who play violin don't go on to become professionals it is wonderful to have the option of continuing to enjoy music into adulthood--and an instrument you love makes that much more likely! I've played in various community orchestras over the years and even tried my hand at Irish fiddling in informal sessions at someone's house. I love the violin I got when I was 14.

[maize]

3 minutes ago, EKS said:

 

Also keep in mind that the bow makes a difference in the sound as well.

.

Yes! 

The bow also makes a big difference in ease of playing. You will want to set aside money for a bow and have her play with a bunch of different bows to choose one. This is just as critical as the violin.

[skimomma]

I agree with a few points that have already been made here.  The bow is just as important as the instrument when it comes to how a player will feel about the sound and ease of play.  And bows can be very expensive....typically up to half the cost of the violin.  And cost does not have much to do with how an instrument and bow will match a player.  We live very far away from anyplace that sells the kinds of violins dd needed when she was looking.  The shop had to ship several to us after an extensive Q&A (about price, brightness, use, etc.....) with dd, us, and her teacher.  They send violins that ranged in price from $2000 - $6000.  We had dd play each for hours with the costs masked.  We had no intention of buying the $6000 instrument but were very curious as to which she would gravitate towards.  Shockingly, it was the least expensive one, so that worked out well all around.  Dd was still considering going into music as a career at that time so we did want her to have something to at least get her started after high school (she was not planning to go to college for music if that was the path she chose, but rather go right into the industry....or at least attempt to).  

Since you can go to the shop itself, your dd will have even more variety to try out.  They likely will allow you to take the top 2-3 "finalists" home for a week or so as one really needs more than a few minutes in a shop to determine which will be best.

And all that said, violins hold their value so you should be able to sell and recoup your entire investment should your dd decide to stop playing.

[Lecka]

There is definitely a relationship between price and sound.  
 

For me where I played viola — it would not matter for me.  I also could have told you — I really enjoyed orchestra socially and wanted to play through high school, but had no intention of playing in college or any community orchestras.  I sing in a choir now that I love.  
 

But it would matter for people in youth orchestra, especially if they were competitive within the youth orchestra.  
 

It is very normal for a teacher to play the instruments and have opinions about the sound.  
 

And a good point about the bow.  If the bow would be a separate purchase or if you would want to trade up from the bow it comes with, if it comes with one.  
 

Honestly — teachers also have tiers.  If your daughter lover her teacher — is this a serious teacher, does your daughter love that she has a serious teacher.

 

I took private lessons but not from a teacher who only had serious students.  
 

And then the viola she would think was good for me, a more serious teacher would not have thought was good enough. 
 

The kids I knew who were competitive in youth orchestra definitely would not have been happy with my viola, and some would think it was trash, but some would be like — well it’s nice you got a new viola, it’s good for what you’re doing.  It was fine with me, I liked my high school viola.  I was not interested in youth orchestra or having a serious teacher.  I had a great experience and it serves me well in my choir now.  

Edit:  I think with her having a serious teacher, sounding serious, being in the youth symphony….. these things matter and would point to wanting/needing something different than someone not playing at that level. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Lecka

[TexasProud]

30 minutes ago, maize said:

Your daughter should pick the violin, within whatever price range you decide is affordable, that she finds the most joy in playing. 

Higher price doesn't always mean better sound, and different people like different sounds. I would ask for violins in X price range, then compare the way the violin plays and sounds without comparing prices. Maybe follow a process something like: play four violins and set aside her favorite of those four. Play four more and set aside her favorite of those. Once she has four favorites, play those and narrow it down to two.

Your daughter has enough experience that I wouldn't rely too much on the teacher's opinion--the primary factor should be which instrument your daughter loves. It can be nice though to listen to an instrument from a few feet away as well as under the chin, so once you have narrowed choices down to a few she could have the teacher take a turn playing while she listens.

Instruments from the same maker can vary quite a lot, so don't limit yourselves to one sample of each model.

This. We did something similar to what you are describing.  We have like 1,000 in rental credit.  We ended up paying just a couple hundred for a violin that was worth 1300 or so. Those bottom prices sound so high to me as the amount we spent got us a REALLY good violin.  But, that was nearly 10 years ago and inflation and all of that.    But yes exactly what the poster did above is what we did.  And she really loved one of them and it sounded SO SO SO much better than the one she had.  Like the poster I quoted, sometimes a cheaper violin can sound better than a more expensive one.  Just let her play and I bet she will find one with a sound that SHE loves.  And whatever you spend, you should be able to recoup it when you trade it in for an even better one if you want to in the future. 

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, maize said:

In general, I am in favor of getting the nicest sounding instrument that is reasonably within your budget.  

While I agree with this - and having room to "grow" in an instrument isn't a bad thing . .  what is "nice" sounding - seriously depends upon the player and how they play.  

I've found a really good player will "outplay" what an average instrument can give it - and will make it sound worse than an average player will make it sound.

My niece is a professional violist.  She was still playing her (decent - it had been her teacher's personal instrument) college instrument when she was playing professionally.  People kept asking her when she was getting a better instrument - because the viola couldn't keep up with her.  I honestly didn't understand.
then - I was listening to a friend's daughter play her violin for a fundraiser - all I could think about was "she needs a better instrument".  It couldn't meet the demands she placed upon it.

The church has a decent organ - that does just fine for sunday hymns. . . a few years back, a professional organist just happened to be there one day (for something else, and took it out for a spin) - and he made that "decent" instrument sound like a complete piece of junk.  It couldn't even begin to keep up with him.

Edited November 7, 2022 by gardenmom5

[catz]

I will say, I have a very similar violinist - started at 5, advanced rep and most advanced regional orchestra ensemble.  But zero interest in pursuing violin in college (though she does want to major in music with a different primary focus).  We spent about 2K maybe a little more with the whole package.  And got an adequate instrument for her purposes.   I also think if spending less is better for your family, I think that is ok too.  I think you can get a nice instrument in the $1200 range too.  It would all be great if we could give our kids the best of everything, but sometimes you need to compromise.   The other thing is if she has a change of heart and violin becomes HER thing, you can always upgrade later too.  We bought all our instruments, and they all held value and traded up easily.

We will hold onto her violin.  It is hers.  And I could see her picking up orchestra as an extra curricular at some point.  I actually have the violin my parents bought me about that age too, I grew up taking violin as well.  I still pick it up at times and can imagine playing later when I have more time.  That violin actually has likely appreciated in value quite a bit - it was made in 1815 and it has a glorious sound.  But my parents definitely didn't pay a fortune for it either.  So trust your ears.  Sometimes things become clear when you can get in a shop and try some instruments.  I just wouldn't try anything out of what you can comfortably afford.

Edited November 7, 2022 by catz

[LMD]

We ended up paying between $2000-$3000ish - including bow - for our kids' adult size violins. They are decent and get a nice sound. Our teacher is very good and recommended who to talk to/buy from. She was right, buying from a trustworthy person who loves the instrument is so worth it.

[maize]

Regarding a bow, I would have her try out violins using the the bow she usually plays with. Focus on just one variable at a time. 

Once she has chosen an instrument, then she can try out different bows to go with it.

[wintermom]

10 hours ago, skimomma said:

I agree with a few points that have already been made here.  The bow is just as important as the instrument when it comes to how a player will feel about the sound and ease of play.  And bows can be very expensive....typically up to half the cost of the violin.  And cost does not have much to do with how an instrument and bow will match a player.  We live very far away from anyplace that sells the kinds of violins dd needed when she was looking.  The shop had to ship several to us after an extensive Q&A (about price, brightness, use, etc.....) with dd, us, and her teacher.  They send violins that ranged in price from $2000 - $6000.  We had dd play each for hours with the costs masked.  We had no intention of buying the $6000 instrument but were very curious as to which she would gravitate towards.  Shockingly, it was the least expensive one, so that worked out well all around.  Dd was still considering going into music as a career at that time so we did want her to have something to at least get her started after high school (she was not planning to go to college for music if that was the path she chose, but rather go right into the industry....or at least attempt to).  

Since you can go to the shop itself, your dd will have even more variety to try out.  They likely will allow you to take the top 2-3 "finalists" home for a week or so as one really needs more than a few minutes in a shop to determine which will be best.

And all that said, violins hold their value so you should be able to sell and recoup your entire investment should your dd decide to stop playing.

This is exactly what we did - had a 3-4 violins and bows within a certain price range sent to our home and masked the costs. It wasn't the most expensive violin that won in sound and feel, but the expensive bow won. 

Another factor to test out is tuning the instrument. Does it have fine tuning knobs on any strings, are the pegs easy to manipulate. That's something the student will be using ever time they play as well. The more professional violins may not have fine tuners anymore. 

[mathnerd]

Since the violin shop is close to you, I can share what we did for my DS's violins as he upgraded from smaller to full size violins: the shop will allow you to take 3-4 violins of your choice (they will choose for you if your DD can not) to your teacher and the teacher will play those violins themselves, suggest which ones are suitable and then have your DD play her current repertoire with them during the lesson to select the final violin that she prefers for its tone, brightness and ease of handling etc. 

This is how we have chosen all the violins for my son through the years. Your DD has an opportunity to take Orchestra, Chamber Music etc as electives in her college years if she is so inclined. So, keep that in mind when you select the violin as she needs a pretty decent sounding instrument for such purposes. If you are looking for a price tag, I would suggest the $2000-$4000 range for violin + bow for someone who is a serious student but not into competitions or pursuing a music degree in the future.

Looking at the price tags you listed, get the best sounding one from each of the $2250 - $4000 price ranges in the store for a week and take them to the teacher for evaluation.

Edited November 8, 2022 by mathnerd

[maize]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

 The more professional violins may not have fine tuners anymore. 

The standard set-up for violins beyond the lower student levels is a fine tuner on only the E string.

Fine tuners are inexpensive and easy to add though should a violinist want more. If pegs are not holding properly or turning smoothly any decent violin shop can fix the problem; these are minor issues. Other things like preferred chin rest style are also easy to swap out. The tone and responsiveness of the instrument should be the primary focus. 

[katilac]

I would set my upper limit at an amount that wouldn't drive me crazy if dd quits within the year. 

I would also likely say that anything beyond base level would be part of Christmas and/or birthday gifts. 

That's my viewpoint as a mom who encouraged music, but did not require it. If I knew I'd be requiring it through high school, I'd be open to investing more. 

 

[skctgbrlis]

We have had good success finding German made violins from the early 1900s for three of our daughters. They cost in the range of $2000 to $3500. The girls love these instruments. 
The violas and cellos we have purchased new at the string store are functional, but don’t seem to have the character of the older instruments. 

[EmilyGF]

Thanks, everyone! We've been super happy with DD's rental violins, which are the very lowest end model that is made by the company she rents from ($900 kit). We'll be going with that maker, and these questions are very useful. I will go through them with DH. DD really just sounds *good* (and I'm not the only one who says that; professionals tell me that, too) on her rental, so I am confident she'll sound very good on other violins from this maker.

I had hoped to go ahead with a violin as a "Christmas" present, but I think we'll give her the case for Christmas and then go with her teacher in January to buy a violin. I love the idea of having a price range, then masking prices, and having her and her teacher play a variety that way. 

I am really encouraged by the reminder that we can trade the violin in in the future if she changes her mind about future plans. 

Thanks again!

 

[J-rap]

I like this from @Lecka: "I would ask the teacher what the cheapest one is that your daughter could get a good sound from."

When our kids played instruments in middle school and high school, that's about the standard we followed.  Unless we knew for sure that they were going to be playing it through college, or if it were an all-consuming interest of theirs and we could see that a pricier instrument would make a difference, we would not be spending more than absolutely necessary at that age.  As others have said, you can always trade-in later.

Another question:  have you thought about looking for a used one?  Although, I can see if you have rental money that you can put toward a new violin, that probably makes the most sense.  We almost always had used ones (with good sound quality of course) at that age and got some really great deals  on quality instruments.

 

[maize]

58 minutes ago, EmilyGF said:

Thanks, everyone! We've been super happy with DD's rental violins, which are the very lowest end model that is made by the company she rents from ($900 kit). We'll be going with that maker, and these questions are very useful.

 

Ordinarily I would recommend trying instruments from a variety of makers, but if this is the only place you can use your rental credit and they only sell their own company's instruments then it makes sense to go with them. As others have said, your daughter could always trade up to another instrument in the future should she do desire.

I am curious to know what company you are renting from if you wouldn't mind sharing?

[EmilyGF]

1 hour ago, maize said:

Ordinarily I would recommend trying instruments from a variety of makers, but if this is the only place you can use your rental credit and they only sell their own company's instruments then it makes sense to go with them. As others have said, your daughter could always trade up to another instrument in the future should she do desire.

I am curious to know what company you are renting from if you wouldn't mind sharing?

We rent from William Harris Lee. When we first started renting, we were told to figure out what company we wanted to buy from and rent from there. 

[Roadrunner]

We gave the price range for our instrument and DS played all that was available until he found the one. It was a low end cello and a used bow for about $6k (cellos are pricier than violins). He now needs an upgrade and the luthier said he would take his cello and trade it in if we find an instrument we want. I wish we had splurged on him when we first were looking. 

[kokotg]

Just reading this thread to make me thankful that I have wind players and to make me feel better about how much we've spent on clarinets 😂