Explain how counseling worked for you

[TexasProud]

So, if you have done counseling, how did it work for you? How much did your counselor talk? How much did you? 

I feel like I am steamrolling this lady.  We have 2 minutes left and she is throwing things at me to try. But I am also not sure she has pegged me yet. I feel like she is just looking up anxiety and giving me generic stuff to try. 

[cintinative]

It would be helpful to know how long you have been meeting with her.  The first few (plus) meetings are about hearing your story and background, and getting an understanding of all the challenges you are facing.  For me, that took quite a while. There was the current (at the time) crisis, but as we discussed that, old issues that influenced how I handled that crisis came up, and we explored those. It took a while to get to the point of her being able to speak into those things and challenge some of my thinking patterns. First she needed to get a good picture.  So not to be annoying but this is a YMMV issue. It just depends on your situation. 

Real healing takes time, and the deeper the wound, the more time it takes.  Sometimes when we are hurting we are looking for some immediate relief, and there is very little that the counselor can do for that.  They can suggest good self-care like exercise, eating well, good sleep, and spending time with healthy friends. Those things are good for everyone. But the hard work of self-examination, discussing past hurts and traumas, and moving to a place of healing--there is no set "schedule" for that.

That said, there is such a thing as a poor fit counselor. If you feel like she is not really diving in and asking questions about your situation or helping you to process it, then maybe this is not a good fit.  

Hugs. Moving towards healing is hard.

[livetoread]

I've been in counseling multiple times in my life with varying results. I should add that I was a licensed mental health therapist myself though haven't worked in years and license is long lapsed.

First time was as a teen going through a situational crisis (not mental health crisis) and parents were more upset than I was. Therapy was marginally helpful for me but made my folks feel better. I was worried too but wasn't really at a point where therapy was going to be helpful for me. I saw the therapist more as another parent and wasn't ready to open up much.

Next was as a senior in college and again going through a situational crisis though also experiencing some anxiety. It was helpful for me to have an adult listen who wasn't emotionally involved and could help me figure out how I wanted to deal with the situation. Her calm reassurance and ability to have perspective calmed me in turn. I talked about my concerns and options and she pointed out ones I hadn't thought of and pointed out my strengths in coping.

Next was as a launching young adult. I was in therapy for about two years and it was very helpful. I didn't have diagnosable anxiety or depression but I had some concerns about making my own life after being raised in a conservative Christian household. Parents were very worried about my choices which made me worried about my abilities to make a successful life different from what they envisioned for me. Again, having an adult support my abilities was great, and processing my feelings of guilt and shame helped me sort out my own choices. I wasn't in crisis and wasn't goal driven so therapy was more about delving into family of origin stuff and how it was influencing me now in what I wanted.

I went back recently when one of my kids was going through a severe mental health crisis and I was spiraling badly. Major anxiety and some depression. I found it only marginally helpful. I already knew a lot of what I needed to do and I found other things more helpful in coping. I quit after about four sessions even though I was in the worst mental health state I've ever been in. Some things a friend told me about mindfulness and radical acceptance helped me more and being outside in nature helped too. I knew I would come out of it eventually, and I did. My baseline is pretty content and I knew if I hung in there and kept taking care of myself, I'd feel better. I didn't want to do any in depth work.

As for how counseling works, it depends on what you want out of it. Do you want a place you can go and vent and have someone who isn't emotionally involved listen and support you? Do you want to make specific changes in your life? Do you want to feel better more of the time? Knowing what you want and communicating that directly to the therapist is good because it changes whether things are more specifically goal driven or more relaxed and flexible. Many times the first couple sessions are dumping with the client doing most of the talking and the therapist asking some clarifying questions. Then together you make the game plan and the therapist can be more or less directive depending on what you want. You really do have to communicate it though and too many people come in thinking the therapist is the expert and should know how to run things, which is fine but not as helpful.

[TexasProud]

22 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Hugs. Moving towards healing is hard.

Yeah, but I am feeling so much better and a lot of that just has to do with changing circumstances. That said, I know there are deeper issues I should probably explore but right now she is talking about helping me figure out what I want to do next in life, which are all the things I already know how to do and have done and am beginning to do again now that I am in a better place.  But when I mention deeper issues she suggests not dwelling on them and giving me ways to divert my brain.  Which I can do.  Not a problem, but isn't that avoidance and not solving the deeper issue? I mean write now my sessions are not hard at all. That is just it, they feel like they should be. 

 

3 minutes ago, livetoread said:

 

As for how counseling works, it depends on what you want out of it. Do you want a place you can go and vent and have someone who isn't emotionally involved listen and support you? Do you want to make specific changes in your life? Do you want to feel better more of the time? Knowing what you want and communicating that directly to the therapist is good because it changes whether things are more specifically goal driven or more relaxed and flexible. Many times the first couple sessions are dumping with the client doing most of the talking and the therapist asking some clarifying questions. Then together you make the game plan and the therapist can be more or less directive depending on what you want. You really do have to communicate it though and too many people come in thinking the therapist is the expert and should know how to run things, which is fine but not as helpful.

I don't know. People here thought I really needed to go. People in my real life think I am pretty together. Even therapist says, you are doing a lot of the things you should do.  And as time passes with mom's death and I share about my awful hospice experience, it has less of a hold over me. But when I mention to my therapist that I feel like my needs cause harm to people, she has me listen to an anxiety tape. Ok, yeah I can distract myself. I don't need a tape to do that. I can throw myself into a project for the church, but am I not supposed to fix how I feel?

[Scarlett]

Counseling has never worked for me. 

I think acknowledging that things in your past affect you now is helpful, but dwelling on said past trauma is not helpful.  I believe on moving on and finding peace and joy.  
 

Sometimes people recommend counseling when they don’t have any answers.  Honestly counselors often don’t have answers either.  

[livetoread]

We all choose the level of unhappiness we can live with. It really is your call and only your call. If you are okay with how you are now, then doing therapy because other people think you need it is pretty useless (and a way to be sort of passive-aggressive frankly - though I am NOT saying that is the case here). If you want to feel better short term  - well your crisis is resolving and you are feeling better and yeah, therapy that is geared towards crisis resolution isn't as helpful. If you want to feel better overall for longer periods of time, that takes more in depth work which can actually feel worse at times and is different from crisis resolution. Some of the best times to do more in depth work is after a crisis and you are feeling more stable but still aware that things could be better. It's motivating.

There is nothing wrong with doing short term work and reaching a level of unhappiness you can live with. That is mostly what therapy is, really.  If you do want to do more in depth work then you need to let your therapist know that you are wanting to delve into harder stuff even if it makes you feel worse at the moment. Totally your decision.

Editing to add the above might sound a bit snarky but I don't mean it to be at all. Take my last therapy go around for example. I decided to stop because even though I was far from 100%, I got as much as I was going to get and felt decent enough to stop. I chose the level of unhappiness I was willing to endure. I could have done some in depth work on my relationship with the young adult in crisis and how it was affecting my reactions etc, but I didn't want to. I was good with where I was at. We can all be better and feel better with more work but we decide what we want to live with all the time, and that's okay.

Edited October 25, 2022 by livetoread

[heartlikealion]

Different with different counselors, but mostly I feel like I talk too much, they barely say anything and I could have just said all that to a girlfriend. 

The best counselors give me books to read and methods to try (such as a communication method, an anxiety reducing method). And for me, give me validation. "That sounds hard" "he pulled the rug out from under you." Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. I needed that. The one that I opened up to and shared a traumatic experience and said nothing? I made an excuse and never went back. 

I am all for taking ownership of patterns and actions but I do not respond kindly to what I perceive as victim blaming. 

My most recent counselor practices Internal Family Systems. I haven't met with her in weeks and she sent me a text the other day to show me something that may help me. She says in her practice the goal is to get you to be able to help yourself, not stay in therapy forever. But maybe returning occasionally for certain things.  

I have told counselors, "it's ok, you can interrupt me or redirect me" because I know that I'm bad at managing time and can let the session get away from me. 

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Different with different counselors, but mostly I feel like I talk too much, they barely say anything and I could have just said all that to a girlfriend. 

The best counselors give me books to read and methods to try (such as a communication method, an anxiety reducing method). And for me, give me validation. "That sounds hard" "he pulled the rug out from under you." Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. I needed that. The one that I opened up to and shared a traumatic experience and said nothing? I made an excuse and never went back. 

I am all for taking ownership of patterns and actions but I do not respond kindly to what I perceive as victim blaming. 

My most recent counselor practices Internal Family Systems. I haven't met with her in weeks and she sent me a text the other day to show me something that may help me. She says in her practice the goal is to get you to be able to help yourself, not stay in therapy forever. But maybe returning occasionally for certain things.  

I have told counselors, "it's ok, you can interrupt me or redirect me" because I know that I'm bad at managing time and can let the session get away from me. 

My trusted friends do help me process things.  And they aren’t always ‘yes’ friends….,sometimes they tell me I am wrong, or too harsh, or obsessing etc.  I greatly appreciate them and I do the same for them. This board operates in a similar fashion and it has helped me a lot over the years.  
If you don’t have trusted friends  a counselor might help you @TexasProud

[heartlikealion]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

My trusted friends do help me process things.  And they aren’t always ‘yes’ friends….,sometimes they tell me I am wrong, or too harsh, or obsessing etc.  I greatly appreciate them and I do the same for them. This board operates in a similar fashion and it has helped me a lot over the years.  
If you don’t have trusted friends  a counselor might help you @TexasProud

I do have a best friend out of state and we talk usually daily (through random messages). Sometimes it's light and fluffy and sometimes it's deep. But we can share and vent if we need to. I do sometimes feel like a counselor is a better option for a professional research-based opinion... however, many of them do not share anything particularly insightful. I love my girlfriend but she's quicker to burn bridges/write people off than I am. The Hive definitely has helped me with a ton. 

I occasionally attend group sessions on zoom for parents struggling with children concerns. They are free. 

[fairfarmhand]

30 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Counseling has never worked for me. 

I think acknowledging that things in your past affect you now is helpful, but dwelling on said past trauma is not helpful.  I believe on moving on and finding peace and joy.  
 

Sometimes people recommend counseling when they don’t have any answers.  Honestly counselors often don’t have answers either.  

Exactly. The past only matters if it has bearing on the present. If someone is repeating unhealthy patterns of thinking and behaving, sometimes those threads must be pulled as to where it all started. 

[heartlikealion]

There are reasons to talk about the past that you might not understand if you haven't attended various types of counseling. I have done Internal Family Systems and EMDR. You discuss it to process it. They say your brain is like a filing cabinet and you file certain memories a certain way, but you maybe didn't really process them. You know on a conscious level that this mindset you had should be dismissed, but you are addressing the subconscious level. 

Then with IFS you are addressing parts that you maybe don't dig deep into and dismiss as "that annoying voice that says this." But if you look at it as a part, you can explore it and say, "what is this part trying to convey to me? What are they trying to protect me from?" I can barely explain it as I've only done limited work in this area, but there are different parts — Managers, Exiles, Firefighters, and The Self. 

I think the run of the mill counselor doesn't go into these types of things, though. 

[regentrude]

50 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

 That said, I know there are deeper issues I should probably explore but right now she is talking about helping me figure out what I want to do next in life, which are all the things I already know how to do and have done and am beginning to do again now that I am in a better place.  But when I mention deeper issues she suggests not dwelling on them and giving me ways to divert my brain.  Which I can do.  Not a problem, but isn't that avoidance and not solving the deeper issue?

Is the deeper issue standing in the way of you moving on with life? If yes, you need to deal with it. If no, it can be very helpful to stop all the introspecting/ diving deeper and simply going about moving forward. Not every issue must be excavated - sometimes you just leave things be, accept that there was something less than ideal, and just go about life.

I have found the notion that everything must be discussed, turned over, and messed with thoroughly unhelpful. Sometimes it is much more valuable to focus on practical tools to deal with depression, anxiety, and ruminating thoughts (as provided in DBT for example)- instead of spending years to pinpoint which exact childhood circumstances are responsible.

[regentrude]

My personal experience with counseling was useless.
The first counselor pushed medication which I said I did not want.
The second counselor let me talk a lot, had lame suggestions ("you should explore this by writing about it" -gee, thanks, I'm a writer, and I have written extensively on everything I am telling you here) and ultimately didn't lead to any progress over many months.
The third counselor told me after the intake interview "you know what you need to do, you just need to do it" and decided that I didn't need therapy.

I am much happier since I stopped all the introspecting and exploring my inner landscape, as I have not found it to lead to anything.

[wendyroo]

I adore my therapist. I have been seeing him for a bit more than a year now.

I do most of the talking, but he never hesitates to butt in and push back against things I say if he feels the need. He asks a lot of questions: "Does it have to be like that?", "Does that add or eliminate stress in your life?", "Do you feel like he could do better if he wanted to?", etc.

He doesn't give me "homework" per se, but he ends almost every session saying something like, "If I were you, I would think more deeply about XYZ. Try to figure out how you would feel is ABC happened, and how you might react." If I bring up that topic at the next session, he is of course open to discussing my thoughts, but if I don't bring it up, then neither does he.

Because I am in an ongoing, toxic situation, sometimes I come to sessions with a pressing topic to discuss, like a murky decision I need to make. Other times we talk about things I am thinking or feeling. And sometimes, I don't even know what I am thinking or feeling, and we just talk about the events that have been happening and he listens for patterns (and I assume how I am talking about events) and tries to help me gain perspective.

[TexasProud]

49 minutes ago, livetoread said:

If you want to feel better overall for longer periods of time, that takes more in depth work which can actually feel worse at times and is different from crisis resolution. Some of the best times to do more in depth work is after a crisis and you are feeling more stable but still aware that things could be better. It's motivatin

Yes, that is what I want. And I did say that to her at intake.  I mean, I am feeling a lot better right now because I am no longer trapped. I am singing in choir and praise team regularly.  I am walking with a friend several times a week, etc.  So, I get a little stuck when she says what are you struggling with now.  I am now. I am pretty happy actually. 

 

48 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Different with different counselors, but mostly I feel like I talk too much, they barely say anything and I could have just said all that to a girlfriend. 

EXACTLY. We have done 4 session so far. But yeah, she lets me ramble WAY too much and should reign me in. 

Honestly, I am getting much more from spiritual direction.  I only met with her twice, but what she said was so much more helpful for me. For example, she suggested that for all of my SHOULDS in my head, I should say "Who says?"  or Show yourself.   

The other thing is to say AND.  For example, if I feel like as a Christian I should "Rejoice Always," I can also say, AND "Jesus wept." 

She also has a lot of time for us to just sit and listen together to see what God says. She really liked the image that God has given me for my time  right now. I feel like I have been totally lost in a forest. I am so scratched up trying to figure out my own way.  I am now in a clearing.  The thing is, when you are really, really lost in a wilderness, experts tell you to stay where you are.  Blow your whistle and let help come to you. So I am staying where I am for now.  Blowing the whistle consists of the counselor, the spiritual director, ladies Bible study (which includes being pretty transparent with a few), walking with my friend, and when my husband get back from being overseas having him sit in the clearing with me.  So every day I spend time in "the clearing," just listening.  
 

Anyway, she has been much more helpful.  She seems to ask the deeper questions whereas the counselor lets me ramble. 

[Clarita]

The first time I had counseling was pre-marriage counseling. The counselor identified me as having abandonment issues pretty much the moment I stepped through the door. She gave me and my husband ways of handling that. That was really helpful because the way he "has" to treat me is a little different than if I didn't have those issues. 

The second time I had counseling was after my dad passed away and my mom decided to move out of the country. I was in a bad space I don't know how many friends knew I wasn't doing well, but my husband knew I wasn't doing well. The first session I did a lot of talking. Then subsequent sessions she would give me "homework" and we'd discuss the homework the next session. The official therapy she did with me was helpful. she helped me put together what to say to my mom, with ways to end the conversation and establish my boundaries. We did some writing stuff to my dad to get things off my chest. She suggested some resources to find others who I can talk to with more similar experiences. I stopped going after about 6 sessions. At the last session I attended it felt like all the things were done and then it was just talking. That's when it went downhill, she started saying things like "When  you have grandchildren then your mom should have a change of heart. I just can't imagine her not." That's when I knew it was over. 

[Clarita]

Just now, Clarita said:

That's when I knew it was over. 

It seems like we were out of the official therapy stuff and she was just a friend I could talk to. Except I have good friends who will talk to me for free.

[Clarita]

13 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Honestly, I am getting much more from spiritual direction.  I only met with her twice, but what she said was so much more helpful for me. For example, she suggested that for all of my SHOULDS in my head, I should say "Who says?"  or Show yourself.   

Maybe you are done with therapy and the spiritual direction is what you need. I'm not sure if therapists ever tell you you've graduated and don't need to schedule more sessions...

The friends I have that are in continuous therapy have chronic mental illness and for them the therapist helps them recognize they are in depression or anxiety phase. Also helps identify when not great feelings are drug concoction related, mental illness related, or just a part of life.  

[heartlikealion]

26 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, that is what I want. And I did say that to her at intake.  I mean, I am feeling a lot better right now because I am no longer trapped. I am singing in choir and praise team regularly.  I am walking with a friend several times a week, etc.  So, I get a little stuck when she says what are you struggling with now.  I am now. I am pretty happy actually. 

 

EXACTLY. We have done 4 session so far. But yeah, she lets me ramble WAY too much and should reign me in. 

Honestly, I am getting much more from spiritual direction.  I only met with her twice, but what she said was so much more helpful for me. For example, she suggested that for all of my SHOULDS in my head, I should say "Who says?"  or Show yourself.   

The other thing is to say AND.  For example, if I feel like as a Christian I should "Rejoice Always," I can also say, AND "Jesus wept." 

She also has a lot of time for us to just sit and listen together to see what God says. She really liked the image that God has given me for my time  right now. I feel like I have been totally lost in a forest. I am so scratched up trying to figure out my own way.  I am now in a clearing.  The thing is, when you are really, really lost in a wilderness, experts tell you to stay where you are.  Blow your whistle and let help come to you. So I am staying where I am for now.  Blowing the whistle consists of the counselor, the spiritual director, ladies Bible study (which includes being pretty transparent with a few), walking with my friend, and when my husband get back from being overseas having him sit in the clearing with me.  So every day I spend time in "the clearing," just listening.  
 

Anyway, she has been much more helpful.  She seems to ask the deeper questions whereas the counselor lets me ramble. 

Not all counselors are a good fit. And I don't know if it's me or them but I've had several lackluster ones. Since therapy can be very expensive or time consuming, it's ok if you want to pause or look for someone else. I'm glad you've had help with spiritual direction. 

[livetoread]

Trust yourself. If you are finding spiritual counseling more helpful right now, then that is where your efforts should go. In depth work can be done in ways outside of traditional therapy too. I have often found reading books carefully and thinking about them to be just as helpful as therapy in understanding some part of myself and changing it. In depth work is about recognizing unhelpful patterns and changing them enough to be happy enough to live with. There are lots of way to do that.

[wendyroo]

11 minutes ago, Clarita said:

Maybe you are done with therapy and the spiritual direction is what you need. I'm not sure if therapists ever tell you you've graduated and don't need to schedule more sessions...

The friends I have that are in continuous therapy have chronic mental illness and for them the therapist helps them recognize they are in depression or anxiety phase. Also helps identify when not great feelings are drug concoction related, mental illness related, or just a part of life.  

My oldest was in therapy last year, and I think the therapist started "graduating" him / encouraging him to be done very prematurely.

We had started therapy when he was having a really rough time and was not coping well with increased responsibilities. In fact, he was about 12.5 at the time, and the therapist agreed that his maturity and responsibility were at a young elementary level. Not surprising due to his autism and mental health challenges, but definitely an impediment in his life.

After about 6 months, the therapist had taken the tack of reassuring Peter that he was "fine" the way he was, and at home DH and I had taken the approach of locking down temptations like Fort Knox and instituting near 100% supervision so that Peter could function. On the surface, Peter seemed to be in a much better place, but that was almost entirely due to external structures - he was no more accepting of his responsibilities than he had been...he was still perfectly willing to lie and cheat to get out of "work" (even tasks like brushing his own teeth), but we just weren't giving him any opportunities.

I thought, now that the acute problems were temporarily under control, that we were in a perfect position to start tackling more underlying issues. The therapist thought thing were peachy keen and Peter didn't need therapy any more. Sigh.

That was at the end of last school year, and we are still looking for a more suitable therapist for Peter...who has once again started spiraling down because his special needs really do require long-term professional help, and will not be cured in 12 sessions. 

[Doodlebug]

IME, the most effective counseling is focused on a specific issue and has a timeline/goal attached.  

I don't have any experience seeing a counselor for more generalized issues.  I don't believe counseling is a cure all.  That being said, I think DOING something about the way you feel is always a positive.  Good for you trying something new.  I try to keep in mind that there's a tipping point at which a therapeutic mindset of making peace with the past comes at the expense of present gifts, hope, and future joy.  Sharing that because it really is so very individual and may serve as a sort of discerning metric for your next move - drop counseling, pursue a new provider, etc.      

Edited to remove personal details.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Doodlebug

[freesia]

Have you been direct with the counselor about possible issues? Have you told her that you struggle with black and white thinking, catastrophizing and ruminating?  If you are doing ok now she wouldn’t see it, but if you tell her maybe she could focus on that?

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, freesia said:

Have you been direct with the counselor about possible issues? Have you told her that you struggle with black and white thinking, catastrophizing and ruminating?  If you are doing ok now she wouldn’t see it, but if you tell her maybe she could focus on that?

I agree.  I think it would be helpful for you to print out one of your threads when you have been spiraling and show it to her.

[freesia]

41 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I agree.  I think it would be helpful for you to print out one of your threads when you have been spiraling and show it to her.

That’s an excellent idea. I  am high functioning even when depressed or anxious and only dh and bff see what’s going on inside. Everyone else would think I’m fine and I often convince myself I am.  But when the stressors hit, that’s when my unhealthy thinking takes me down. It would be so helpful for your counselor to see one of your threads. Then she can see how you spiral which is more important info than that you spiral. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by freesia

[TexasProud]

10 minutes ago, freesia said:

That’s an excellent idea. I  am high functioning even when depressed or anxious and only dh and bff see what’s going on inside. Everyone else would think I’m fine and I often convince myself I am.  But when the stressors hit, that’s when my unhealthy thinking takes me down. It would be so helpful for your counselor to see one of your threads. Then she can see how you spiral which is more important info than that you spiral. 

I can do that, but I am not sure what it says that I ONLY do it on here. AS I said before, it is like me yelling and screaming and throwing a tantrum.  In real life, I can easily acknowledge it is not so black and white.  If I am with people, it is very easy for me to stay regulated. It is only when I am isolated and by myself. And I even mentioned that to my therapist last week. She just said, "You need to make sure you spend time with people."  I agree.  But because of Covid and Mom's diagnosis, I could not. I was trapped.  But yes, that is one of the her goals and really what I asked for.  I am completely fine now.  I need to figure out a way to stay fine when I am trapped again/crisis happens.  And perhaps, the reality is, I won't be ok and it is ok not to be ok in a crisis.  It is part of being human.

[Scarlett]

55 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I can do that, but I am not sure what it says that I ONLY do it on here. AS I said before, it is like me yelling and screaming and throwing a tantrum.  In real life, I can easily acknowledge it is not so black and white.  If I am with people, it is very easy for me to stay regulated. It is only when I am isolated and by myself. And I even mentioned that to my therapist last week. She just said, "You need to make sure you spend time with people."  I agree.  But because of Covid and Mom's diagnosis, I could not. I was trapped.  But yes, that is one of the her goals and really what I asked for.  I am completely fine now.  I need to figure out a way to stay fine when I am trapped again/crisis happens.  And perhaps, the reality is, I won't be ok and it is ok not to be ok in a crisis.  It is part of being human.

Because you only do it here is the exact reason she needs to see it. 

[freesia]

54 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I can do that, but I am not sure what it says that I ONLY do it on here. AS I said before, it is like me yelling and screaming and throwing a tantrum.  In real life, I can easily acknowledge it is not so black and white.  If I am with people, it is very easy for me to stay regulated. It is only when I am isolated and by myself. And I even mentioned that to my therapist last week. She just said, "You need to make sure you spend time with people."  I agree.  But because of Covid and Mom's diagnosis, I could not. I was trapped.  But yes, that is one of the her goals and really what I asked for.  I am completely fine now.  I need to figure out a way to stay fine when I am trapped again/crisis happens.  And perhaps, the reality is, I won't be ok and it is ok not to be ok in a crisis.  It is part of being human.

Yes, it is, but you really spiral deeply. Being with others is a coping skill, but there are ways of combatting some of your distorted thinking. You do get better but you cycle again and again and again. What’s great is that you have figured out ways to move forward and you can self-regulate. I just think that if your therapist had a copy of your thought process it might help her understand the problem.  What I see if more than tantrum throwing—when you are down you express a loss of hope. You felt completely trapped by Covid and had trouble dealing with anyone criticizing you and you went back to that again and again. I think you do have some healthy skills, but I think you could benefit from figuring out how not to drop so low. 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, freesia said:

Yes, it is, but you really spiral deeply. Being with others is a coping skill, but there are ways of combatting some of your distorted thinking. You do get better but you cycle again and again and again. What’s great is that you have figured out ways to move forward and you can self-regulate. I just think that if your therapist had a copy of your thought process it might help her understand the problem.  What I see if more than tantrum throwing—when you are down you express a loss of hope. You felt completely trapped by Covid and had trouble dealing with anyone criticizing you and you went back to that again and again. I think you do have some healthy skills, but I think you could benefit from figuring out how not to drop so low. 

That is a good point….I don’t see it as temper tantrum either.

[Melissa Louise]

Well...

Firstly, I don't have a counsellor, because I've historically found counsellors not very useful, but I do have an experienced psychologist who is also a psychotherapist. I've been seeing her either weekly or fortnightly for the last three years.

The first year was very much about background, and the immediate presenting problem/s.

I definitely do the majority of the talking - this therapy is not edu-therapy aka it isn't worksheets and homework.

In this style of therapy, you talk (about anything), the therapist listens and will sometimes clarify or hypothesize. You develop a therapeutic relationship with the therapist.

It's only in the third year that we've got anywhere close to looking at some original wounds (but I have some pretty extreme trust issues).

~

Here's my advice.

1. Your counsellor probably isn't very skilled. Some just provide a manualized therapy aka they tell you your problem, they tell you skills to practice, you go away and practice them, if things change, great, if they don't, do more homework. Frankly, I feel this is a downright harmful way to practice, but some people like and respond to it.

A really good way to find out if they are skilled is to share with them what you've shared here and note their reaction. A good counsellor will find it interesting and helpful information, that can help them understand how best to help you.

A less skilled person will try to convince you of their style, panic that they've been 'criticized' or simply not know how to make any adjustment.

2. Anxiety is a 'cover' emotion - it's like a lid over more distinct emotions - anger, grief etc. So while it can be useful to have some skills for dealing with anxiety, that's really only step 1 for a lot of people.

3. Speaking of grief, people I know who have dealt with a loved one in hospice have found grief counselling specifically helpful. From a grief counsellor aka someone experienced in grief around hospitals, death etc.

4. You need to think about what YOU want out of this. Not what the counsellor wants out of you. Do you want to explore your patterns of relating to yourself and others? Do you want to deal with your grief? Do you want to heal some trauma? Or do you not want to do those things, or do them in a different way, because that is OK too.

5. Once you're clear on what you want, and if it involves a type of psychological therapy, find the best practitioner you can.

6. If you just want to get on with life, now that the hospice stuff is less intrusive, you can do that. Therapy is for you, not for us, not for your family or your friends, and definitely not for the therapist!

Good luck.

 

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, freesia said:

Have you been direct with the counselor about possible issues? Have you told her that you struggle with black and white thinking, catastrophizing and ruminating?  If you are doing ok now she wouldn’t see it, but if you tell her maybe she could focus on that?

I think if a counsellor can't pick up on this through the counselling itself, as it goes on, then that's a sign you are not having quality therapy.

I also have a high functioning face irl (though not here) and if I'd had to print out a 'ML goes nuts online' thread to show her, I'd think she was pretty much not very good, and I probably would also want to terminate the therapy. But more to the point, a good therapist doesn't need you to bring in an online thread, because you bring those patterns into the room...eventually. One way or another.

Idk. I think people think of counselling like a cafeteria. Go in, point at what you already know you want, get it, consume it. I don't think it's that helpful as a model.

 

[Melissa Louise]

3 hours ago, wendyroo said:

My oldest was in therapy last year, and I think the therapist started "graduating" him / encouraging him to be done very prematurely.

We had started therapy when he was having a really rough time and was not coping well with increased responsibilities. In fact, he was about 12.5 at the time, and the therapist agreed that his maturity and responsibility were at a young elementary level. Not surprising due to his autism and mental health challenges, but definitely an impediment in his life.

After about 6 months, the therapist had taken the tack of reassuring Peter that he was "fine" the way he was, and at home DH and I had taken the approach of locking down temptations like Fort Knox and instituting near 100% supervision so that Peter could function. On the surface, Peter seemed to be in a much better place, but that was almost entirely due to external structures - he was no more accepting of his responsibilities than he had been...he was still perfectly willing to lie and cheat to get out of "work" (even tasks like brushing his own teeth), but we just weren't giving him any opportunities.

I thought, now that the acute problems were temporarily under control, that we were in a perfect position to start tackling more underlying issues. The therapist thought thing were peachy keen and Peter didn't need therapy any more. Sigh.

That was at the end of last school year, and we are still looking for a more suitable therapist for Peter...who has once again started spiraling down because his special needs really do require long-term professional help, and will not be cured in 12 sessions. 

 

Oh yes.

This is very true.

A good therapist knows this.

Not everyone can access the amount of therapy they need to do this, but if you can, it can be a helpful thing to continue past the point of 'acute initial presentation'.

 

 

[freesia]

10 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I think if a counsellor can't pick up on this through the counselling itself, as it goes on, then that's a sign you are not having quality therapy.

I also have a high functioning face irl (though not here) and if I'd had to print out a 'ML goes nuts online' thread to show her, I'd think she was pretty much not very good, and I probably would also want to terminate the therapy. But more to the point, a good therapist doesn't need you to bring in an online thread, because you bring those patterns into the room...eventually. One way or another.

Idk. I think people think of counselling like a cafeteria. Go in, point at what you already know you want, get it, consume it. I don't think it's that helpful as a model.

 

I do agree with you about a good therapist and that was true for me. However, my gut is wondering if Texas is not going to give it the time and is saying—I’m fine now, it’s all good. That’s totally her right, of course, but she keeps going back to this bad place. I think some of us have a huge need to have everything be good and have it all together and coping well with life fits in with that. I get that from Texas’s other post. Showing a thread would be a way of coming clean in a way—cutting to the chase. 

[fairfarmhand]

Have you told your counselor that you want to build resilience so that when things go badly you do not spiral into self hate and depression? You’re right. Life is often a series of crises and you definitely want to have to tools in place to cope with struggles when those crises hit.

also, you say that nobody knows what’s going on when you’re having a hard time. I think it would be an interesting discussion to talk about why you can’t share those hard things with anyone when you’re in the midst. Why you feel that you can’t unburden yourself to those closest to you. 

 

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

Have you told your counselor that you want to build resilience so that when things go badly you do not spiral into self hate and depression? You’re right. Life is often a series of crises and you definitely want to have to tools in place to cope with struggles when those crises hit.

also, you say that nobody knows what’s going on when you’re having a hard time. I think it would be an interesting discussion to talk about why you can’t share those hard things with anyone when you’re in the midst. Why you feel that you can’t unburden yourself to those closest to you. 

 

Yes, I did tell her that.  These are a few of the things I told her:
1. When I am alone, I really spiral.  I feed off of the positive energy that people exude. It isn't that I am faking it. So I need tips for that.

2. I do not feel safe. Crisis after crisis.  Her answer was to look at worst possible and say, "maybe so"  Ok, not sure how that is supposed to be helpful.  But I am tired of being hyper-vigilant for the next crisis.  That said, as more time goes by without one, I begin to feel more hopeful and this fades in the background.  But yes resilience.  Which I am sure would consist of me saying, "I/God got me through the last crisis.  We can get through the next one. It isn't hopeless. "   Yeah, I get that.  And IF I have people around me like when my husband had his stroke and the whole church knew and rallied around me. Yeah, that one didn't throw me at all.  When oldest was in the hospital  as a newborn and the SS rallied around me.  It is the isolating crisis: when oldest is in mental hospital and we can't tell anyone or husband is fighting a lawsuit or stuff like that. 

3. I shared with her and it is related to your last question.  I know exactly why. Because I cannot count on people. They count on me. I told her the pattern: My birth sent my dad to the mental hospital as he couldn't cope with a child with multiple birth defects. That said, I did end up being a daddy's girl because I knew how to handle him no matter what state he was in.  I'm in 4th grade and the teacher is literally screaming at me every day. The other teachers in the mod (open concept) called to tell my mom what they heard. I am not removed. I am 12 and ex-boyfriend by two days was  killed by drunk driver. My parents comforted his parents. I was in charge of comforting the sister (my best friend).  No one comforted me.  My uncles had me confront my dad who chased me around the house. I know my uncles must have heard what was going on. I fled the scene and went to stay with my in-laws. ( Good thing is after shoving my father and telling him to never speak to me that way again. He never did.) Both when I was seeing a psych 8 years ago or even when I was taking care of my mom, my husband is like you have to take care of yourself because if you fall apart, I can't make it. I need you to be ok, so I can be ok.   There are others, but that is the pattern. Basically, I need to solve problems myself and take care of myself.   Even when I buckle and ask for help I don't get it ( IE, I have put more work into the internship and my pastor is totally ok with the amount of work I have done with the church.  I had done several big projects.  Can I drop finishing my devotional since I am in the hospital with mom with cancer diagnosis.  My supervisor said...Oh, you can do it.  Just work on it while you are sitting in the hospital room. REALLY??????????   So even when I ask for help, I don't get it.  That is only one of many, many examples. And yes, I told her all of this.

 

[Clarita]

5 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Both when I was seeing a psych 8 years ago or even when I was taking care of my mom, my husband is like you have to take care of yourself because if you fall apart, I can't make it. I need you to be ok, so I can be ok.   There are others, but that is the pattern. Basically, I need to solve problems myself and take care of myself.   Even when I buckle and ask for help I don't get it ( IE, I have put more work into the internship and my pastor is totally ok with the amount of work I have done with the church.  I had done several big projects.  Can I drop finishing my devotional since I am in the hospital with mom with cancer diagnosis.  My supervisor said...Oh, you can do it.  Just work on it while you are sitting in the hospital room. REALLY??????????   So even when I ask for help, I don't get it.  That is only one of many, many examples. And yes, I told her all of this.

Did she give you anything to say to these people (especially people like your husband ) that you can't do this or even they can't say these things to you because it's not helpful for you? That was a lot of the help that I got after getting the I have abandonment issues came up is that he needs to say certain things to me differently or some sayings maybe OK for most people but not for me. 

Supervisor and external people are one thing I mean in that case you really just have to look out for yourself and just give a firm NO. 

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, Clarita said:

Did she give you anything to say to these people (especially people like your husband ) that you can't do this or even they can't say these things to you because it's not helpful for you? That was a lot of the help that I got after getting the I have abandonment issues came up is that he needs to say certain things to me differently or some sayings maybe OK for most people but not for me. 

Supervisor and external people are one thing I mean in that case you really just have to look out for yourself and just give a firm NO. 

Yeah, I didn't want to get a failing grade for my internship or even a B and I was so close to ( and did eventually) graduate with high honors. I needed the A (95 or higher). 

No, we haven't addressed any of that. She has given me strategies to help me sleep.  And then something this week about "welcoming" and making friends with my anxiety.  Though, I still don't understand how it is anxiety to worry about things that CAN happen.  But anyway.  I have a recording that I am supposed to listen to if I start to ruminate on something like it is my fault my mom died in pain.  That is it. 

[Melissa Louise]

Sounds like she is doing a CBT workbook style therapy. 

It doesn't work for everyone.

If it's not working for you, it's ok to stop. 

 

[freesia]

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah, I didn't want to get a failing grade for my internship or even a B and I was so close to ( and did eventually) graduate with high honors. I needed the A (95 or higher). 

No, we haven't addressed any of that. She has given me strategies to help me sleep.  And then something this week about "welcoming" and making friends with my anxiety.  Though, I still don't understand how it is anxiety to worry about things that CAN happen.  But anyway.  I have a recording that I am supposed to listen to if I start to ruminate on something like it is my fault my mom died in pain.  That is it. 

It’s anxiety to worry about what can happen when it becomes unproductive and when you can’t control the outcome. If the worry moves you to prepare in a healthy way—for example, evacuating a hurricane—it is helpful. Once evacuated, if you can’t stop worrying about damage to your house and ruminate on it —that is anxiety. Sometimes my brain tells me if I just keep thinking about this situation I can somehow control and fix it. I had to learn to stop the ruminating. It was actually so incredibly freeing once I started to do that. 

[Not_a_Number]

11 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Different with different counselors, but mostly I feel like I talk too much, they barely say anything and I could have just said all that to a girlfriend. 

I've only tried a couple of times, but that was my experience -- people wanted to be nonjudgmental sounding boards, and I don't tend to want that. For one thing, I'm REALLY sensitive to vibes, and I'm uncomfortable not feeling someone's reactions to my words because they are carefully hiding them -- I'd rather know how they actually feel, even if it's disapproving. 

So, yeah, I've gotten more out of talking to friends, to DH, and posting on here. I didn't always listen, but that's what has helped me more in my life.  

[Melissa Louise]

Texas, this article describes better what you could expect from the type of therapy (counselling) I outlined above, that is sometimes more helpful than manualized therapies (CBT).

https://focus.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/foc.4.2.167

It is often provided by psychiatrists, rather than someone with the title 'counsellor'.

It's useful to  consider if there are long standing patterns you're seeking to change, and if CBT isn't really doing anything for  you.

[Laura Corin]

18 hours ago, TexasProud said:

So, if you have done counseling, how did it work for you? How much did your counselor talk? How much did you? 

I feel like I am steamrolling this lady.  We have 2 minutes left and she is throwing things at me to try. But I am also not sure she has pegged me yet. I feel like she is just looking up anxiety and giving me generic stuff to try. 

My counselling was for a specific issue of overwhelm due to circumstances.  The counsellor listened to me talk and gave some suggestions, but mostly it was my talking that was useful.  Her reaction to my talk and telling me that X was not a normal situation allowed me to pick myself up and distance myself so that I could function better.  For example:

Me: X objects when I go out with my husband or with a friend and says that, as we are a family living together, she should be included in everything.

Counsellor: That's not a normal reaction.  You have the perfect right to go out with your husband, a friend or on your own.  You have offered her options for building her own friend group, which she has rejected.

[scholastica]

You might try a therapist who specializes in DBT instead of CBT. It helped someone close to me. Also, some of what you listed in a previous post is trauma inducing and you might need EMDR. Just a couple of modes of therapy that might be a better fit for what you are dealing with. Multiple alarm bells went off in your numbered post above. I didn’t want to quote since there is so much personal info in there.

[TexasProud]

Yes, she is doing CBT therapy because the majority of the Hive told me that is what I should ask for, so it is what I did.  She also does a lot of DBT. I asked about both.  There is someone in the next town, husband of a homeschooler...speaker at one son's graduation...so I have worked with him in that capacity who does EMDR.  But I feel like I don't know if I have given her enough time. I mean, I have seen her for a month- 4 sessions. I don't know what is a fair trail. 

Another thing I told her is that I feel numb as in pretty much don't feel anything. Like everyone is so concerned about my grief. I don't really care that my mother died other than the weight of the responsibility for caring for her is done.  So it actually makes me feel more hopeful.  A woman came up to me at the Bible study, saying she so understood how much she missed her mom...tearing up.  Everyone who has lost their mom tears up talking to me about it.  I, on the other hand, feel like the line from Chorus Line, "And I felt...nothing."

She said I probably had a lot of anticipatory grief.  Everyone grieves in their own way, etc.  She basically dismissed it. To me, it feels like more should be explored.  

Getting my hair cut today. Really excited about church activities tonight. It is just so nice to be back in society. I have really, really missed it. I did almost tear up singing on praise team this past Sunday. I will never, ever take for granted getting to sing with other people again. 

[scholastica]

4 sessions is really short. You should definitely give her more time. Maybe ask about the DBT and what’s different about it. You seem to fluctuate between on top of the world and down in the depths a lot. Once you’re up again, you seem to think “oh well that’s over” and then seem surprised when you go down again. Your description of your childhood is such that it could have led to some coping mechanisms that served you well then and most of the time now, but not always, hence the drop into despair when they fail you. Good luck to you as you try to figure this out. It’s hard work and is not instantaneous, and, until you do, the pattern will continue.

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

 

Another thing I told her is that I feel numb as in pretty much don't feel anything. Like everyone is so concerned about my grief. I don't really care that my mother died other than the weight of the responsibility for caring for her is done.  So it actually makes me feel more hopeful.  A woman came up to me at the Bible study, saying she so understood how much she missed her mom...tearing up.  Everyone who has lost their mom tears up talking to me about it.  I, on the other hand, feel like the line from Chorus Line, "And I felt...nothing."

She said I probably had a lot of anticipatory grief.  Everyone grieves in their own way, etc.  She basically dismissed it. To me, it feels like more should be explored. 

Why do you think this should be explored? What result are you expecting from this? Genuine question, no snark.

It sounds to me exactly like a normal reaction, a combination of anticipatory grief and exhaustion and relief that it is over. Why do you feel there is a hidden message underneath that would be helpful to decipher? 

I am very skeptical about the notion that there must be a deep trauma under every reaction that doesn't match the prevalent pattern, and that this has to be excavated and explored just because. If you feel your grieving patterns stand in the way of your life, by all means do.

My dad died after a long illness during which I was unable to see him for over a year because of Covid. I grieved and cried plenty during that time, processed by writing, but since his death, I barely cried. It feels like I did all my grieving in anticipation. 

[Frances]

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Why do you think this should be explored? What result are you expecting from this? Genuine question, no snark.

It sounds to me exactly like a normal reaction, a combination of anticipatory grief and exhaustion and relief that it is over. Why do you feel there is a hidden message underneath that would be helpful to decipher? 

I am very skeptical about the notion that there must be a deep trauma under every reaction that doesn't match the prevalent pattern, and that this has to be excavated and explored just because. If you feel your grieving patterns stand in the way of your life, by all means do.

My dad died after a long illness during which I was unable to see him for over a year because of Covid. I grieved and cried plenty during that time, processed by writing, but since his death, I barely cried. It feels like I did all my grieving in anticipation. 

 I agree. I had a simple, uncomplicated, loving relationship with my dad. Before he passed, my parents were able to take one last trip out to see us and I was there for his short time on hospice and stayed with my mom for a few weeks after to help with everything.

I generally only have good memories of him and I don’t get sad or tear up when thinking or talking about him. While I would have liked him to live longer, he didn’t die young or tragically and he lived long enough to see our son become an adult and start college. And we were all relieved to see his suffering end. My FIL, on the other hand, died way too young, and my feelings and emotions around his death are much stronger. So many times since his death my husband and I have longed for his calm insight and wisdom.

Everyone experiences grief differently. There is no right or wrong way to grieve. 

[scholastica]

40 minutes ago, Frances said:

 I agree. I had a simple, uncomplicated, loving relationship with my dad. Before he passed, my parents were able to take one last trip out to see us and I was there for his short time on hospice and stayed with my mom for a few weeks after to help with everything.

I generally only have good memories of him and I don’t get sad or tear up when thinking or talking about him. While I would have liked him to live longer, he didn’t die young or tragically and he lived long enough to see our son become an adult and start college. And we were all relieved to see his suffering end. My FIL, on the other hand, died way too young, and my feelings and emotions around his death are much stronger. So many times since his death my husband and I have longed for his calm insight and wisdom.

Everyone experiences grief differently. There is no right or wrong way to grieve. 

This has been my experience as well. We knew my dad was dying and we spent what time we could with him. I cried knowing he was going to be gone more than I have cried in the two weeks since he passed. Am I sad, yes, but not distraught. I was relieved for him that his suffering was at an end. That’s my biggest emotion: relief.

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

Why do you think this should be explored? What result are you expecting from this? Genuine question, no snark.

It sounds to me exactly like a normal reaction, a combination of anticipatory grief and exhaustion and relief that it is over. Why do you feel there is a hidden message underneath that would be helpful to decipher? 

I am very skeptical about the notion that there must be a deep trauma under every reaction that doesn't match the prevalent pattern, and that this has to be excavated and explored just because. If you feel your grieving patterns stand in the way of your life, by all means do.

My dad died after a long illness during which I was unable to see him for over a year because of Covid. I grieved and cried plenty during that time, processed by writing, but since his death, I barely cried. It feels like I did all my grieving in anticipation. 

Yes, anticipatory grief is very common, especially for those providing direct care. This is something that the SNF and hospice social workers discussed with me at length. 
 

We - society, and perhaps more so from certain faith perspectives - have certain ideals about how we are to feel and grieve upon a loved ones death. But many actual experiences don’t meet those expectations. The problem is not with the way we individually process grief. The problem is with those expectations. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[Laura Corin]

2 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

The problem is not with the way we individually process grief. The problem is with those expectations. 

“I imagine you come across a number of people who are disconcerted by the difference between what you do feel and what they fancy you ought to feel. It is fatal to pay the smallest attention to them.” Miss de Vine in Gaudy Night by Dorothy L. Sayers