ACT test scores drop to their lowest in 30 years

[SKL]

13 hours ago, Frances said:

Does anyone know what the rationale is for not using math textbooks anymore? It just seems crazy to me. I remember my high school math textbooks, except for precalc which was from a different series, being excellent. In fact, the precalc one not being good really made a big difference, as I had the same math teacher for all four years. All of our HW was assigned from the textbooks and we just compared our answers to those in the back of the book, as we never handed in HW. All of our grade was based on exams.

Not sure if there's a rationale.  It's pretty stupid if you ask me.

Last 2 years, my kids had zero textbooks in any of their classes.  This is why I stopped being able to give any real help at home.  The only way for me to know what they're supposed to be learning at school would be to take their Chromebooks, which they are using almost all day on school.  I am too old to stay up all night holding my magnifying glass up to a Chromebook screen, after working and facilitating teen life all day long.  And with a non-mathy kid struggling to learn and finish school homework, "afterschooling" math isn't gonna happen either.

This year, my eldest has a total of 2 textbooks - biotechnology (a college-level course) and algebra II.  However, we all hate the textbook.  It doesn't thoroughly explain anything ... it asks questions to which answers are not provided ... it doesn't even provide the solutions to the so-called "examples" used to introduce new concepts.  How is anyone supposed to go home and figure out what didn't sink in in class?  No wonder my kid is lost despite hours of homework.

[Farrar]

10 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

A close friend of mine said no grades below a 60 are to be given. Show up, put your name on the paper, answer nothing and you are guaranteed a 60. 

The rationale for this is that kids are never in a position where they're so far behind that they can't get the grade up to a reasonable level. It's 50 in a lot of places though, so you would still have to do more to get it to do very well. It's honestly not necessarily a bad policy in terms of encouraging kids. I mean, said eff it to a class in high school where after I missed a SINGLE HOMEWORK, I realized there was no way to make above a D because of the zero. So I was like, yeah, obviously not worth it to bother. I'm better off skipping the class and making an F for attendance because at least that I can explain away to colleges. And that's what I did. The teacher was SO MAD. But you have to be careful what you incentive with grades.

As for the no math textbooks, it's one dose of "books are pointless now, all hail the new digital world" and one dose "the books are never aligned with the tests because they change the tests so often so why buy them" and one dose "holy cow these books are expensive."

[teachermom2834]

As much as I think grading scales are all messed up and really meaningless I actually get the policies where they don’t give lower than a 50. A zero really makes it impossible to come back. Or something goes really sideways and you get a 25 or a 30- well you are just done. There has to be some way to come back. Somehow grades just get really disproportionately skewed low and make it impossible to come back. That helps no one. 

So while it sounds ridiculous on its face I get the rationale behind it. 

[teachermom2834]

I picked my dd up today. She tells me she had a geometry test today. “I only got a 105. I’m going to go see the teacher after school tomorrow and see which ones I got wrong and make sure I understand them.” 
 

Something has gone awry. Super glad we all understand that her 100+ grades don’t mean she understands everything. Good gravy. 
 

 

[Arcadia]

9 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

I picked my dd up today. She tells me she had a geometry test today. “I only got a 105. I’m going to go see the teacher after school tomorrow and see which ones I got wrong and make sure I understand them.” 
 

Something has gone awry. Super glad we all understand that her 100+ grades don’t mean she understands everything. Good gravy. 
 

 

For community college classes, I had a few where I get 130% because I completed all the extra credits work in each weekly assignment. My kid had extra credit for one class for submitting on time all his assignments and another class for doing the extra credit work. Basically he knew he would get an A for those classes unless he mess up the finals so badly. Extra credit is definitely happening as well at high school level. My husband’s colleague said his high school teacher would give extra credit to those not doing well if the student help wash his car, so basically bumping the Fs and Ds up a grade.

[teachermom2834]

15 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

For community college classes, I had a few where I get 130% because I completed all the extra credits work in each weekly assignment. My kid had extra credit for one class for submitting on time all his assignments and another class for doing the extra credit work. Basically he knew he would get an A for those classes unless he mess up the finals so badly. Extra credit is definitely happening as well at high school level. My husband’s colleague said his high school teacher would give extra credit to those not doing well if the student help wash his car, so basically bumping the Fs and Ds up a grade.

I don’t really care. It’s nice for my dd because she has some harder classes and this is her first time in school and it gives her some margin and the other schools are doing it so, whatever. But the problem is when it masks the kids not understanding. When parents think their kids have got it all because they have a B and don’t realize how padded it is. So I’m not really griping. I like her school and her teacher and I realize this is the way it is. I just also think it explains a lot of low ACT score/high GPA correlation, college students befuddled by an exam based grading scale, etc. 

 

[Brittany1116]

11 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

That's not true at my son's school. You can make up grades under 70 by going back and taking another test (though the highest you can get is 70 even the second time). But you can definitely get lower grades

 

She is in a public school in FL. I don't know how far up or down that policy was made, but she said it is constantly harped on at her school this year. 

[vonfirmath]

9 minutes ago, Brittany1116 said:

She is in a public school in FL. I don't know how far up or down that policy was made, but she said it is constantly harped on at her school this year. 

My kids are in public school in TX. I suspect it is a school by school policy.

 

[Frances]

2 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

My kids are in public school in TX. I suspect it is a school by school policy.

 

Of course it is. Public schools within the same state in the US are wildly different, let alone between states. That’s why a high school diploma in the US is basically meaningless.

[BlsdMama]

Do I admit I’m wondering what the PSAT scores will be for NMQT? Scores come out in December and I’m nervous. DD16 is on the brink of a qualifying score. (As a side note, why did I accelerate her forward a grade? 🤦🏼‍♀️)

[BusyMom5]

4 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

Do I admit I’m wondering what the PSAT scores will be for NMQT? Scores come out in December and I’m nervous. DD16 is on the brink of a qualifying score. (As a side note, why did I accelerate her forward a grade? 🤦🏼‍♀️)

Last years were down again, so fingers crossed for your DD!  

[bookbard]

10 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

There’s been discussion in the news here this week about the lack of curriculum resources available to teachers. There’s a curriculum outline but it’s quite vague and teachers often have to pay out of their wages if they want resources for each objective versus making everything from scratch. I do think a really well written curriculum could be really helpful for many kids and teachers. Although a lot of teachers push back against that too, because they want flexibility. I would love to see the kids I’m working with have access to Singapore style math from the start and some good quality grammar and writing instruction. It could make a huge difference and instead of everyone having to do the work multiple times it could be more crowd sourced. Get a bunch of experienced teachers to create something, get everyone to provide feedback each semester, find and fix the most commonly flagged issues. Budget for a certain amount of rewriting updating each year.  I believe some of the unis are having similar issues where they’re only paying people qualified to deliver the course but not paying the right people to have the curriculum updated and maintained all the time. 

I've got such mixed feelings about this. Firstly, the NSW govt had a reading program over the last few years for k-2. It was terrible, whole language based stuff. They've kicked it out and started again, but it cost millions in training and of course those teachers now are 'trained' to get kids to guess. I also recall a similar whole NSW grammar program, based on one person's Master's thesis, which taught random invented grammar. Again, kicked out after a few years, but the cost! 

There are some really good Australian reading programs out there already - Fitzroy, Ants in the Apple. There are some good Indigenous programs being developed for particular areas of Australia, I remember some good ones from 20 years ago, really relevant for regional areas, less relevant for the city. I think education on existing programs would be better than the government throwing more money at the current big educational publishers. There used to be a curriculum advisor for each region; hiring that person again, to let people know about programs and work with them, would be better value for money.

I agree Singapore maths would be brilliant, though. 

[Bootsie]

When DS was in fifth grade in public school (about 13 years ago), he was brining home few math papers, and every paper he brought home was misgraded.  I would write a note on the paper like "I think that this answer is correct because 1 X 1 = 1 so I think 1^2 is also 1".  DH and I met with the teacher who said "You know after I read your note, I started thinking about it and looked on the itnternet, and I think you might be right...."  At that point, I asked what curriculum was being used and she literally started pulling pages out of the recyclying bin she had printed off from random sources on the internet.  I asked if they had a math BOOK in the classroom and she pointed to a set up on a top shelf, but she hadn't opened it.  She was "innovative" and "using technology" to teach math.  The class spent two weeks on a math project--the child had to plan a party and create a budget.  The child researched on the internet what prices were, multiplied it by the number of people who would be attending and then added the total and put it all in a PowerPoint with pictures.  So, students were doing things like my part is in Jamaica, so I need ten airplane tickets to Jamaica, which are $520 each....that was the extent of math for two weeks for fifth graders!  She was an award-winning teacher.  That was also the year we pulled DS out of public school.