Chinese or Spanish?

[Julia]

My son, who is 6 years old, bilingual in Chinese and Spanish. He really loves learning new languages and is interested in new cultures. I asked him which language he likes, and he chose Spanish. However, i'm also interested in helping him learn Chinese since its a top 3 language here in the US. I didn't really give it to him as a option since I don't know if it would be difficult to learn or if there are resources out there for a child but I've seen that he has an interest in that language as well.

What resources did you use if you chose to learn language? What resources did you use for Chinese?

[Clarita]

I use an in-person Chinese class near me so I don't really have suggestions on the how.

I actually think the difficulty in learning Chinese is that the language is so different from English. The shared vocabulary and some of the history makes learning other romance languages easier. Also of course a lot of the alphabet is shared as well. There are other things that make Chinese a easier language to learn. I think the numbering system and the grammar is easier to learn for Chinese than English, or French. 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm a bit confused.  He's already bilingual in Chinese and Spanish?  (I'm not understanding your first sentence).  Or perhaps you want him to become bilingual in those languages?  The absolute best approach to language learning is immersion.  But if you and people around you don't speak those languages then it's extremely hard to do that.  YouTube has some great Chinese language videos for young children. 

[Julia]

On 9/7/2022 at 8:37 AM, Clarita said:

I use an in-person Chinese class near me so I don't really have suggestions on the how.

I actually think the difficulty in learning Chinese is that the language is so different from English. The shared vocabulary and some of the history makes learning other romance languages easier. Also of course a lot of the alphabet is shared as well. There are other things that make Chinese a easier language to learn. I think the numbering system and the grammar is easier to learn for Chinese than English, or French. 

 

Thanks for your response, it helps me a lot. I found a Chinese class online this month, which is called eChineseLearning. I booked a free trail before bought, the teacher was so professional and patient, my kid likes her so much, so I bought their lessons for him. Hope he could get great performance after.

 

[FlyingSack]

My DD5 became interested in Mandrin about 2 years ago after finding it on a random app. We're not exactly aiming for fluency, just enjoying the journey of exploring another language. Here are some of the resources we've used:

- Online tutors: We started with group classes on outschool, but switched to private lessons on italki for about the same price

-apps: Fun Chinese, Gus Mandarin, Edoki Academy Preschool, duolingo (now that she's reading)

-Youtube: MiaoMiao, Little Fox mandarin, Chinese buddy

[Renai]

On 12/26/2022 at 10:09 AM, FlyingSack said:

My DD5 became interested in Mandrin about 2 years ago after finding it on a random app. We're not exactly aiming for fluency, just enjoying the journey of exploring another language. Here are some of the resources we've used:

- Online tutors: We started with group classes on outschool, but switched to private lessons on italki for about the same price

-apps: Fun Chinese, Gus Mandarin, Edoki Academy Preschool, duolingo (now that she's reading)

-Youtube: MiaoMiao, Little Fox mandarin, Chinese buddy

Little Fox Mandarin has it's own website full of the stories, with books (printable and online videos like on YT), games, vocabulary pages, etc. It's all free and fun. https://chinese.littlefox.com/en. They are categorized by levels as well. It's a great site! I knew of the site before I knew they were on YouTube. 😅

[Sapa]

I don’t speak Mandarin but did reach a professional level of proficiency in Japanese as a young adult, which is one of the few FSI Category 5 difficulty languages for English speakers alongside Mandarin. I’m also aware through acquaintances that Mandarin and Japanese have a number of similarities, including the fact that written Japanese uses a significant number of Chinese characters. Using that experience as my touch stone, if your child is on the fence, I’d personally steer them toward Spanish. According to FSI, it takes roughly 4x the amount of time and effort for a native English speaker to reach the same level of proficiency in a language like Mandarin as it does a language like Spanish. And that’s assuming comprehensive instruction and resources. It’s so rare that even highly motivated and well-resourced non-speakers can get their kids to become remotely proficient even in a category 1 language like Spanish. Trying to do it in a Category 5 language is truly sending your kid up Everest for their first trek down linguist lane. 
 

of course, if it’s just for fun and exposure, that’s totally fine, but if you or your child envision being on a path to actually learning the language, my opinion is that you just can’t be remotely casual about higher category languages. You’re either going to need serious, extensive immersion under a native speaker (not a guest who comes and does singalongs or one hour a week sessions or something) or be very structured and extensive with the learning and buckle up for a long journey. 

 

A large part of what drives this is that it’s hard to capture just how different the languages can be. What we might have one word for in English (like “love”) they might have 5 words for, and mixing them up is not considered a minor slip up or change in meaning. Similarly, the structure of the grammar can be totally different from English, making intuitive attempts at translation nonsensical. And that’s in addition to a ton of other structural nuance, such as meaning hinging not just on pronunciation but also on tonal changes that are often totally indiscernible to non-native speakers. In Japanese, for example, words and grammar can completely change depending on the person’s relationship to you. Saying something simple like “where is the bathroom” can be completely different (different words and grammar) depending on whether you’re asking your teacher, your boss, your classmate, or your sister—requiring significant cultural knowledge to know which to use with whom—and again, mixing these things up is very awkward even if forgiven. I’m told Mandarin has similar nuance. All to say, gradually learning set phrases and names for colors, fruits, and animals and doing apps and singalongs or the like really doesn’t inch you toward preparedness for immersion and achieving proficiency in the same way it might for a language like Spanish. 

 

For what it’s worth, for this same reason I chose not to try to teach my kid Japanese despite my prior knowledge and am instead learning (or relearning depending on what you make of my high school Spanish!) Spanish alongside him. Just my 2 cents. 

[Renai]

@Sapa I wouldn't base what to teach a child based on how an adult learns a language. There are different processes at work. Most of the time, a child is learning speaking and listening first, perhaps through immersion, how they learned their first language. They don't learn (or care) about grammar and nuances like adults, and aren't learning them. (They haven't even learned that in their first language at 5.) They are learning language relevant to their own lives, and conversations that can be used right away, daily. 

As my daughter started learning Mandarin at age 7, I found learning alongside helped. When she learned how to say a few foods, and questions, we began a Mandarin Morning routine everyday. I learned to say "What do you want to eat?" and she could answer with either a one-word food answer, or a simple "I want to eat..." We also watched Mandarin tv during this time, starting with Little Fox songs and simple stories, moving on to dramas.  We expanded the routine the more she learned in her weekly, 25-minute classes. By keeping it relevant and consistent (daily), she was able to reach a level of understanding of conversations, although she was still very shy about speaking. She had better listening comprehension than I did at first, although I could read more characters and put together sentences better because I understood the grammar.

Kids' brains are focused on different parts of the language, and should not be a deterrent to a parent to what they learn first. I belong to too many groups of parents (native and non-native) that are teaching their children Mandarin successfully to discourage anyone from going down that path.

ps. My oldest daughter learned Japanese, as that is one of the languages I introduced to her as a baby and growing up. (In college I had Taiwanese and Japanese friends that both tried to teach me the language while I was taking Spanish classes, lol!) Japanese is a beautiful language. I am relearning it, alongside relearning German, and learning Chinese. We are a bilingual English/Spanish home (my husband is a native Spanish speaker). Yes, I'm a nut. I love language, lol!

Edited January 23, 2023 by Renai
added ps.

[Sapa]

I appreciate the perspective, Renai!  As you can tell, my experience with foreign languages is pretty narrow and constrains my whole world view, here.  Having the input of someone with more ability, background, and reference points like yourself is really helpful.  Your point about how kids' engagement and learning of language is different is helpful to me as I think about my son's own language learning journey.  I also find it encouraging to hear that you know a number of (non-native) families that are successfully teaching their kids a language as complex as Chinese.  Informally digging around about something like Spanish alone, all I've found is a graveyard of good intentions, so it puts some winds in my sails to hear that people are indeed out there successfully helping their kids learn languages they never did.

Thanks again for the input!