Customer behaviour?

[Laura Corin]

'Hobbes' is working in a shop this summer that caters to tourists. An overseas customer came in and bought some things for his family. Later, Hobbes shut the shop for lunch - turning off the lights and putting up a notice on the door giving the re-opening time. He put the bolt half across, because if it is fully engaged, it can only be re-opened with a key from outside (there's a separate fire-escape window for emergencies). He rattled the door and it seemed secure. 

While he was eating lunch invisibly in the back room, he heard the door chime and the tourist was back in the shop, wanting to buy two more hats before he got on the bus. He must have shoved the door hard. Hobbes served him without complaint, but was really surprised. The customer said that Hobbes should make sure to bolt the door better next time, so the customer must have been aware that the shop was shut.

Eta - I checked with Hobbes and he said that when he emerged from the back, he said 'I'm sorry, the shop is shut for lunch,' but the guy insisted on making his purchases.

Does this seem like odd customer behaviour to you, or was he right to try his luck? The shop also sells online, but he may not have known that.  Workers have a legal right here to a 20-minute break in a full-day shift, and Hobbes was alone in the shop.

I have my own thoughts about the lock, but Hobbes goes back to university in a few weeks, so he doesn't want to push for a separate bolt just for this purpose. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Laura Corin

[Jean in Newcastle]

Some people, especially if they are in a hurry for a bus, can be very unobservant.  I could see someone not seeing or totally reading the sign, and pushing the door automatically without thinking.  Then the customer grew aware of his mistake as he noticed that Hobbes had to come from the back to serve him.  But of course, this is just my imagined scenario.

Another scenario might be for someone to try the door to see if they could come in. . . to steal?  To be served anyway?  I mean, that's possible but I wouldn't jump to this conclusion as a scenario. 

[bookbard]

I'd say at least a quarter of people ignore our 'closed' sign. I had a few walk-ins at first, now I double-check it's latched properly. I wouldn't overthink it, just one of those things that happens with people, for people are weird. 

[Carrie12345]

I generally don’t give customers much benefit of the doubt after having worked retail in a mall and having customers CONSTANTLY duck under the half closed gate before opening and after closing. (Required when occupied for fire safety.) So many truly just think they’re special. 

[marbel]

I agree with everyone so far, LOL. I agree that many people are unobservant and just wouldn't notice a sign. Having to push a door hard may or may not be an indication to someone that the shop is actually closed. Of course I've no idea about the building, but if it's old, what appears to be a stuck door may not seem unusual. 

On the other hand, I've worked enough with customers to know that many people feel they are special and deserving of special treatment. 

The door lock is odd but I agree that if Hobbes is leaving soon, there's no point to try to get it changed. 

 

[teachermom2834]

He should not have tried to enter the shop but I am not remotely surprised that he did.

[Wheres Toto]

Can he pick up a inexpensive doorstop that would keep the door from opening when it's put in place inside?

I'm another one that has worked retail and it wouldn't surprise me that someone would know the store was closed and push their way inside anyway. 

It also wouldn't surprise me if they didn't notice the door was locked and gave it a good push/rattle until it opened.  

[Laura Corin]

25 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said:

Can he pick up a inexpensive doorstop that would keep the door from opening when it's put in place inside?

Good idea! Thanks 

[Katy]

If someone admitted breaking in through a locked door I would have called the police instead of serving him. Then I probably would have been fired, but wtf! I worked retail at a mall all through high school. 

[teachermom2834]

First of all, the guy was totally wrong and obnoxious. No question.

However, I could see my dh doing this. Over the course of our time together, (over 25 years since we were kids practically) dh has been the one who has had to push to get things done. Whether it is be assertive with doctors or pharmacies or customer service or contractors or whatever so many things that end in frustration for me, he picks up the phone and makes a call and is able to get the result and escalate the matter to get what we need done. On occasion I have seen this bleed over into inappropriate circumstances (like trying to push for a worker to take a coupon or something). It is terribly embarrassing!! The kids and I call him out and shame him every time he turns into a bad customer but I can almost see how as he got older becoming the bad customer almost went along with being the assertive one who we needed to step up and get things done for the family when the contractor was screwing us or the cell phone company was overcharging us or the doctor wouldn’t get us in for an appointment or whatever. 
 

The guy is totally wrong! Just admitting I can see how people have developed this attitude of pushing the envelope and seeing what they can get if they just push or ask or apply pressure. It is awful and workers don’t deserve it and I promise we all try to supervise my dh. (I suspect my dh would have been diagnosed with something on the spectrum if that had been something years ago when he was in school. He often just doesn’t “get it”). 
 

But it is terrible customer behavior no doubt!

[itsheresomewhere]

Not surprised at all.  Some people just don’t care and want it now.  The guy probably pulled/pushed and jiggled until the door opened.  

[Tree Frog]

If he was observant enough to notice the shop was closed or the door was partially bolted shut and the lights were off once he was inside, he should've apologized as he left. There was no good reason for him to be in there. 

[wintermom]

Not ok on the customer's part. Your dc reacted very graciously and professionally. I also vote for exploring options to better bar the door for future lunch breaks to prevent future occurrances.

[Arcadia]

It is normal for tourists to try their luck, though rude. They may not ever be back in that area and they don’t know the shop sells online or their cranky relative wants the hats now. I can see the scenario of the tourist buying for the child that picked the hat and then his other children saw and wanted the same. I think the tourist assumed staff eats lunch in-house. 

[J-rap]

The customer was aware the shop was closed for lunch.  He maybe thought, "He probably won't mind, because he'll be making a sale."  But it sounds like he knew the door was supposed to actually be locked and he forced it open anyway.  Not good.

Agreeing with others that I'd look for a way to better bolt the door from the inside, and maybe eat lunch where I could see the door but they couldn't see me, if that's possible. 

Also, just adding...  I do understand a tourist having their eye on something special that they wanted to buy before leaving the country forever, and popping over to the store to see if there's any chance they could still get it even though the store wasn't officially open.  So I get that.  But it seems like he crossed the line when he pushed open a door that was supposed to be locked, and didn't leave when your ds asked.  

I wouldn't really be upset with the customer, but I'd work harder on the door issue!

ETA:  I see your ds was already eating where the customer couldn't see him, so for all he (the customer) knew, the store could have been empty!   Maybe putting a sign in the window listing the online website would help.

Edited August 21, 2022 by J-rap

[Lady Florida.]

The customer was totally wrong. I agree that it's possible he didn't see the sign and maybe thought the door was a bit tricky. However, once Hobbes told him they were closed for lunch he should have apologized and left.

Ds24 also works retail. He has stories about customers trying to come in while the employees are doing the opening stuff or after they closed and the closed sign is clearly there. The place is closed on Mondays but a group of employees go there and jam with their guitars (with full approval from the owner). Customers see cars there and try to open the door, even though the sign clearly says closed Mondays.

People are weird. They just are. 

[elegantlion]

I think the customer was rude but he probably thought he wasn't being so. When I worked retail, it was common to be interupted during lunch if you were running the store alone - we just tried to grab a bite when there were no customers. I know I would have been in trouble if I'd told a customer to leave because I was eating lunch. 

Pushing open a closed door and ignoring the lights off, however, was rude. As far as signage, it depends upon how many signs are in the window/door. The closed sign really needs to be hanging directly at average eye level. I have a friend who is dyslexic and really would miss it even it was at eye level - visual clutter on doors is really hard for them. 

Cultural expectation might be another thing. If I really wanted something and the shop was closed for lunch AND I was never returning and couldn't wait until reopening time, I might knock and ask if I could make a purchase. I'd profusely apologize, however. 

[gardenmom5]

The guy commented on them needing a better latch to hold the door closed - I don't buy he didn't see the "closed for lunch" sign.   

[Bootsie]

I think the guy was wrong entering the store.  I can think of two scenarios traveling where I have seen things like that happen.  One is where the tourist's first language is not the local language and he did not fully understand what the sign said (if the door were bolted that seems less plausible).  I had an experience, however, traveling with a colleague who was from a different culture than I am, and he repeatedly tried things like this saying "you never know until you try"; opening and closing times meant nothing to him.  He didn't believe if something opened at 10:00 and closed at 5:00 that it would really be open at 10:00 or that we couldn't show up at 5:30; he also did not understand  that a bus that comes a 1:14 in the country we were visiting came and left at 1:15 95% of the time in the country where we were; 

[gardenmom5]

31 minutes ago, elegantlion said:

 

Cultural expectation might be another thing. If I really wanted something and the shop was closed for lunch AND I was never returning and couldn't wait until reopening time, I might knock and ask if I could make a purchase. I'd profusely apologize, however. 

I would hope if someone responded to the knock, you'd accept "the store is closed for lunch, and I can't help you" as an answer.

That's NOT what the customer did - he pushed open the door.  Upon being told the store was closed, he refused to leave.

[elegantlion]

12 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I would hope if someone responded to the knock, you'd accept "the store is closed for lunch, and I can't help you" as an answer.

That's NOT what the customer did - he pushed open the door.  Upon being told the store was closed, he refused to leave.

Yes, I would. Although he was totally rude to push through the door, cultural expectations still could play into the interaction.  As a former retail employee, I would have been reprimanded if I'd ever told a customer that they couldn't make a purchase. I would have been expected to ring up the sale, then go back to my lunch, just adding on however many minutes it took me to help the customer to my lunch time. 

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

I think the guy was wrong entering the store.  I can think of two scenarios traveling where I have seen things like that happen.  One is where the tourist's first language is not the local language and he did not fully understand what the sign said (if the door were bolted that seems less plausible).  I had an experience, however, traveling with a colleague who was from a different culture than I am, and he repeatedly tried things like this saying "you never know until you try"; opening and closing times meant nothing to him.  He didn't believe if something opened at 10:00 and closed at 5:00 that it would really be open at 10:00 or that we couldn't show up at 5:30; he also did not understand  that a bus that comes a 1:14 in the country we were visiting came and left at 1:15 95% of the time in the country where we were; 

The customer seemed to be North American.

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

  I had an experience, however, traveling with a colleague who was from a different culture than I am, and he repeatedly tried things like this saying "you never know until you try"; opening and closing times meant nothing to him.  He didn't believe if something opened at 10:00 and closed at 5:00 that it would really be open at 10:00 or that we couldn't show up at 5:30; he also did not understand  that a bus that comes a 1:14 in the country we were visiting came and left at 1:15 95% of the time in the country where we were; 

We jokingly called that rubber time where I am from. Public transport being on time was rare.

16 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

The customer seemed to be North American.

Is the store in a tourist belt/area? I do think people tend to be more pushy in tourist areas because they assumed the staff either make a lot in commission or is the store owner.

[Clemsondana]

I would never try to force my way into a locked shop to buy something.  But, I've also never been familiar with jobs where somebody could be eating on-site and not expected to help a customer if needed.  When I worked very part-time at a gift shop as a teen, and when my mom worked at a small store in a mall, it was common to put a sign saying 'be back in 10 minutes' if a lone employee was present and needed to run out to get lunch or some work-related supply.  But, once the employee was back, they were expected to eat when they could - the store might be empty, or they might have to grab bites between customers.  Coming from that background, I can somewhat see how a customer might think that the employee just hadn't taken down the sign yet after returning.  My other non-teaching jobs were working on a college campus guest services desk over the summer and working in research labs, and both of those were 'eat when you can' jobs - eating at the desk between helping guests while working a 11-2 or 5-8 shift was typical, and in the lab you just ate whenever your experiment allowed it, sometimes a whole lunch seated at a picnic table and other times a bite here and a bite there when doing a timed experiment.  So, again, forcing your way into a store isn't OK, but I can also see how 'an employee is on site but isn't expected to be available to work' might not be something that a particular customer is familiar with.  

[Bootsie]

41 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

The customer seemed to be North American.

There are several different native languages a North American might speak.  The colleague that I described from a culture that would do things like this was North American.  It drove me crazy and I made sure I did not travel with him again.  

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, elegantlion said:

Yes, I would. Although he was totally rude to push through the door, cultural expectations still could play into the interaction.  As a former retail employee, I would have been reprimanded if I'd ever told a customer that they couldn't make a purchase. I would have been expected to ring up the sale, then go back to my lunch, just adding on however many minutes it took me to help the customer to my lunch time. 

In the US - there are labor laws that could get a business owner in trouble if they told a worker cutting into their legally mandated break time.  And yes - I've worked retail, and I've had retail workers refuse to serve me (even to so much as answer a quick question) because they were on their break time.

[HS Mom in NC]

Lights were off, reopen time was posted, so no, the customer should not have tried to enter the shop.  I have no problem with the employee stating pleasantly, "Sorry, as the sign on the door says, we're closed until X; I'll be happy to help you then." Then turning around and walking to the back room to enjoy a lunch break.

I agree that it's possible it was due to being unobservant, (a store closed at lunch time is unheard of in my world-people run to stores on their lunch breaks all.the.time.)  but it's just as possible it was a Karen if the door was sort of bolted. (I wonder if the bolt isn't functioning properly all the time because the customer was able to get in.)

Look, we've all been around Karens, and if you've ever worked in retail or service industries, you know many a customer from N. America thinks that because they're a paying customer, the customer is always right and should be catered to like a spoiled brat no matter what, policies be damned.  My youngest is a hostess at a steakhouse. Don't get me started.

The proper protocol for a customer in that situation is to see the sign and lights off and walk away, or if they didn't notice the sign and lights, to hear the employee state the policy, walk out, then grumble about it to people from their own subculture. I would.

[Bootsie]

11 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

In the US - there are labor laws that could get a business owner in trouble if they told a worker cutting into their legally mandated break time.  And yes - I've worked retail, and I've had retail workers refuse to serve me (even to so much as answer a quick question) because they were on their break time.

While there are state laws in certain places, there is no legally mandated lunch break in the US.  If the worker is required to perform some work duties while on "lunch break" then the employee must be paid, but lunch breaks are not federally mandated.

 

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

 

Is the store in a tourist belt/area? I do think people tend to be more pushy in tourist areas because they assumed the staff either make a lot in commission or is the store owner.

Yes, it's a tourist area, but the staff aren't on commission. It's minimum wage.

[Tree Frog]

2 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

The customer seemed to be North American.

Does the Ugly American strike again? 😞

[Laura Corin]

Just now, Tree Frog said:

Does the Ugly American strike again? 😞

There are lots of lovely American visitors. He's half American too.

[Tree Frog]

Just now, Laura Corin said:

There are lots of lovely American visitors. He's half American too.

I agree there are lots of lovely Americans. However, it's the rude ones that seem to be noticed because of their behavior.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

On occasion I have seen this bleed over into inappropriate circumstances (like trying to push for a worker to take a coupon or something). It is terribly embarrassing!!

Although I think the customer in the OP situation was wrong, I think your dh is right to push for honoring a coupon. I did this one time at the Jiffy Lube when I had a coupon for an oil change. My coupon was for six dollars but because the cashier did not know the code for that particular coupon, he was trying to get me to accept a generic $5-off coupon. I finally said, “Look, I’m not interested in standing here arguing over if a dollar, but the fact is, this is a valid coupon for $6 off, so I expect to get $6 off at least.” He then remembered or realized that he knew the code for a $7-off coupon and that “erring” a dollar in my favor would be preferable to shorting me a dollar, lol. 
 

I was pleased with myself for pushing for correct service (which is IMO not what the OP customer did). 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Tree Frog said:

I agree there are lots of lovely Americans. However, it's the rude ones that seem to be noticed because of their behavior.

I would have bet money the trespassing customer was an American. 

[HomeAgain]

I live in a tourist trap.  The customer's behavior doesn't surprise me in the least.  We have had to get rather assertive sometimes because people get on "vacation mode" and don't understand that their behavior doesn't match common decency.  Being told boldly and flatly what the expectations are tends to make most remember their common sense, or at least be embarrassed that they temporarily forgot it.

[Bootsie]

I am having difficulty visualizing what a bolt half across would be.  Is this something that would be obvious to someone from the outside?  Especially if pushing the door hard still caused the door to open?  I am wondering if this is a different type of business door bolting system than I am accustomed to.  I know that I have walked up to businesses before and had a difficult time telling if they are open or closed.  Depending on the tinting of the glass, how bright it is outside, and how much lighting a store may use during the day, I often find it hard to tell if the business is open by the internal lighting level.  

[Jaybee]

2 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

The customer seemed to be North American.

Shocked, I tell you, I am absolutely shocked! (/s from a North American 😜😉)

ETA: To be fair to us NAs, I have also lived in a couple of other places where this behavior would not have been unknown.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Jaybee

[Laura Corin]

47 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I am having difficulty visualizing what a bolt half across would be.  Is this something that would be obvious to someone from the outside?  Especially if pushing the door hard still caused the door to open?  I am wondering if this is a different type of business door bolting system than I am accustomed to.  I know that I have walked up to businesses before and had a difficult time telling if they are open or closed.  Depending on the tinting of the glass, how bright it is outside, and how much lighting a store may use during the day, I often find it hard to tell if the business is open by the internal lighting level.  

I haven't seen the bolt myself. There was a notice at eye level on the door, however, saying that the shop was shut and giving the time it would reopen. 

[Kuovonne]

The customer should have apologized and left when he was told the shop was closed instead of insisting on making his purchases.

And there are all sorts of issues with the lock that the business should address.

However I am not at all surprised that the customer tried to enter the store or that the sign was ineffective.

Employees forgetting to update signs happens. For example, I have waited outside a store because the sign said they were closed. Eventually someone in the shop noticed me outside and comes to the door to let me in. They had simply forgotten to flip the sign or the sign was broken.

[Melissa in Australia]

4 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

The customer seemed to be North American.

From the attitude I gleened from the first post I suspected that.  I could totally see my  north American sil  doing this,  I don't know if it is a cultural rudeness or what

[HS Mom in NC]

3 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Depending on the tinting of the glass, how bright it is outside, and how much lighting a store may use during the day, I often find it hard to tell if the business is open by the internal lighting level.  

I'm from Phoenix, so I know exactly what you mean.  Some places of business there with entrances and windows south or west facing have serious tinting. From the outside, it doesn't seem like the lights are on.  Not every place, but enough that people from those environments wouldn't automatically associate dim with lights off and closed. I'm guessing that's likely not something people from the UK would have experienced based on my religious viewing of Monty Don's gardening show where he sometimes wears a light jacket in summer.  A jacket!....in summer!....outside!...while gardening!?!?

[Jean in Newcastle]

12 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

I'm from Phoenix, so I know exactly what you mean.  Some places of business there with entrances and windows south or west facing have serious tinting. From the outside, it doesn't seem like the lights are on.  Not every place, but enough that people from those environments wouldn't automatically associate dim with lights off and closed. I'm guessing that's likely not something people from the UK would have experienced based on my religious viewing of Monty Don's gardening show where he sometimes wears a light jacket in summer.  A jacket!....in summer!....outside!...while gardening!?!?

?  I live in a temperate climate that is much like the UK. I often can’t tell if lights are on in stores. 

[Melissa in Australia]

9 hours ago, elegantlion said:

I think the customer was rude but he probably thought he wasn't being so. When I worked retail, it was common to be interupted during lunch if you were running the store alone - we just tried to grab a bite when there were no customers. I know I would have been in trouble if I'd told a customer to leave because I was eating lunch. 

Pushing open a closed door and ignoring the lights off, however, was rude. As far as signage, it depends upon how many signs are in the window/door. The closed sign really needs to be hanging directly at average eye level. I have a friend who is dyslexic and really would miss it even it was at eye level - visual clutter on doors is really hard for them. 

Cultural expectation might be another thing. If I really wanted something and the shop was closed for lunch AND I was never returning and couldn't wait until reopening time, I might knock and ask if I could make a purchase. I'd profusely apologize, however. 

I am not being snarky, but trying to understand different cultures. is it ok in your culture to be deliberately rude if you apologise while doing it? Maybe that is something I have not been picking up with dealings with sister in-laws.

[Janeway]

It’s a tourist who needed to catch a bus. I think the behavior was fine, but perhaps not desired. And Hobbes handled it well.

[Melissa in Australia]

1 hour ago, Janeway said:

It’s a tourist who needed to catch a bus. I think the behavior was fine, but perhaps not desired. And Hobbes handled it well.

Could you elaborate? 

I got the impression the tourist forced opened a  semi locked door and demanded service of someone on their break,  and freely admitted that they forced opened a semi locked door and ignored a closed sign. 

[easypeasy]

2 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I am not being snarky, but trying to understand different cultures. is it ok in your culture to be deliberately rude if you apologise while doing it? Maybe that is something I have not been picking up with dealings with sister in-laws.

Not in my own personal/family culture (which is kind of how we have to measure things here in the U.S. - we Americans are SO different from one another), but around me? Yes, SOME people are deliberately rude while apologizing for it and are quite content with that behavior. They will, in fact, apologize before doing or saying something terribly rude and just graciously smile 😁 through the entire process, often leaving you feeling like you were somehow the rude one for expecting better behavior.

"I'm sorry, but we're just going to cut in front of you real quick because my friend is waiting for us outside." 😁 or "Sorry, I meant to tell you that I'd invited your ex-wife, but I just never got around to it!" 😁 or "I know I said I'd give you a ride home, but I just ran into an old friend and we decided to leave early. I'm sure you can find another way home?" 😁 or "Sorry we forgot to stay after the party and help clean up [like we'd promised]! We were just so tired and wanted to get home and sleep!" 😁

or... "So sorry, I have to catch a bus but wanted to buy another hat before we left. I'll be quick about it, though, so you can get back to your lunch!" 😁

It's an art, really! 🙃🤷‍♀️

Edited August 22, 2022 by easypeasy

[Melissa in Australia]

Thank you so much for explaining.  So now I am thinking my SILs aren't  abnoxious jerks,  but just acting within their culture.  

 

Glad they are on the other side of the world and my interactions,  though memorable,  are few. 

[elegantlion]

10 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I am not being snarky, but trying to understand different cultures. is it ok in your culture to be deliberately rude if you apologise while doing it? Maybe that is something I have not been picking up with dealings with sister in-laws.

Easy peasy explained it well. At least in my experience, in the US we have different practice surrounding consumerism. Ideas like the customer is always right (there's a nuance to that), never miss a sale, and stores don't close for lunch. So while yes it might be considered rude elsewhere, I know some business owners who would be happy to have a sale no matter if it was your lunch time or not. IMO, we're more focused on rights of the customer vs. rights of the employee. 

The culture around consumerism has told us that products are always available. Before Covid, it was not uncommon to have stores open 24/7, like Walmart, grocery stores, some pharmacy chains, and even some fast food restaurants. Not sure if they still do that around here. People of my age (50+) also grew up with huge shopping malls available. Businesses in the malls I worked at had to, by contract, be open for entire time the mall was open, generally 9 or 10 a.m. to 9 p.m. and noon to 5 p.m. on Sundays. This is still true for the larger strip malls near me. Most of those are filled with larger national chains, however, like Target, Best Buy, TJMaxx, etc. 

I live in a town where our downtown is being revitatlized. Lots of small business owners coming back in with stores and restaurants. There is no oversight on hours. I've noticed stores closing early for personal reasons, closing for a long weekend, etc. I like this business model as it creates a more personalized community, but it's not the norm, at least in the areas I've lived in the US. 

[saraha]

I can honestly say that multiple times over my life time I have completely missed a sign on the door and only realized a store was closed because the door was locked when I tried to open it. I have never tried to force a door though.