How would you deal with this?

[Drama Llama]

DS14 and a friend have been going to a rock climbing gym most weekends.  It started with one off invitations where the other mom would reach out.   Each time they go, the other mother hires a private coach for the two of them, rents my son rock climbing shoes, and usually takes them out for an expensive (by my standards for teenagers) meal and sometimes back to her house to hang out.   I sent money the first few times, and each time my kid brought it back and said she'd refused to let him pay.  

We've had the kid over to our house, although not often because things are still kinda complicated here.  When he comes over they play video games, or basketball, or go on bike rides.  I make homemade food.  So, I don't pay anything.

A few weeks ago, the other mother and I spoke.  She told me her son has severe social anxiety and she is so grateful that my son is his friend.  She also told me that her son really looks forward to seeing my son, and she was wondering if I'd be interested in setting up regular lessons for the summer.  I said my son likes your son too!  He'd love that.  Please let me know how to sign up and pay.  And she told me she insisted on paying, that it was "the least they could do".  

At first I said OK, but I am realizing I'm not comfortable with this.  First of all, It feels like my kid's friendship is being bought.  My kid really likes this kid.  He also likes rock climbing, but he's there because he likes the kid.  He'd be fine just going to their house to hang, or hanging here. There is no need for gratitude on their part.  Also, it feels like there's an assumption that we couldn't pay.  We are a very middle class family, in a school with a lot of very rich kids.  But we're quite able to pay this.

I also feel like, because we aren't paying, it gets awkward.  I feel an obligation to reciprocate weekly, which I wouldn't feel otherwise.  I feel guilty if we cancel, as we did this week because DS was in a show (we did invite kid to the show with us).  I also feel that I can't do things like bring his brother along on the weeks I drive.  

initially, I did let her pay, but now I am feeling like I want to change that.  At the same time, I don't want to jeopardize a friendship both kids benefit from.  They'll be at different schools next year and seeing each other regularly would be lovely. 

Any suggestions on how to approach it?  My understanding is that the lessons are paid for in blocks, so I'd like to say that I will pay for the next block, and that we can take turns going forward.

Ideas on how?

[Annie G]

I’d just casually say that you’d feel more comfortable paying for the next block, and then make those arrangements. You can call the place and set it up.  I’d probably just say you’ve paid for the next block rather than negotiating paying for every other one…maybe your son will tire of the activity and you don’t want to feel obligated to continue. 
I don’t think you have to feel that his friendship is being bought. Your son is spending time w the kid willingly. For the other kid’s family, maybe they eat out a ton and the mom prefers that to cooking meals. I mean, for all you know the other mom feels guilt that she’s not cooking home cooked meals when your kid is with them.  It’s hard to not feel like she’s doing more by paying for lessons and taking them out, but the reality is you might be doing more.  You’re supervising while they’re at your place and you’re fixing meals.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

At our climbing gym you can get a membership. It comes with discounts. But I don’t know the set up there. You might look at their website. So in my case I would get a membership and my kid could just show his membership card. 

[Drama Llama]

4 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

At our climbing gym you can get a membership. It comes with discounts. But I don’t know the set up there. You might look at their website. So in my case I would get a membership and my kid could just show his membership card. 

The big expense isn't the entry, it's the coaching.

[Arcadia]

45 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

 

A few weeks ago, the other mother and I spoke.  She told me her son has severe social anxiety and she is so grateful that my son is his friend.  
And she told me she insisted on paying, that it was "the least they could do".  

There is no need for gratitude on their part.  Also, it feels like there's an assumption that we couldn't pay. 

While there is no need for gratitude on their part, I can definitely sympathize with the mom and understand why she feels that paying was the least they could do. DS16 was depressed when he felt isolated by homeschooling when he was elementary school age. I ended up going from spending a few hundreds a year for a weekly class to spending a few thousands a year for classes five days a week. Luckily my parents helped  pay. So I could easily understand why the mom thinks paying is just her way of saying thank you. 
I don’t think the mom assume you could not pay. She probably feels like your son is her guest so she should be paying.  

 

9 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

The big expense isn't the entry, it's the coaching.

I agree that its the coaching that cost a lot more. My boys have tried rock climbing and they do learn more as a pair than one to one. They are each other’s belay partner. In your situation, I would just be blunt and say that I would be more comfortable paying my fair share for the coaching.

[gardenmom5]

Have you ever had a child with severe social anxiety?  She's not doing this to "buy" your child. She's looking at the money she spends as an investment in her son.  If she didn't have the money to do this, she would do something that cost less.  Playdates at home, the park, overnights, food at home, etc.  Your son is enabling her son to be somewhat functional in social situations.  That is so so important. I can almost guarantee there are nights she's crying in gratitude for your son's connection to her son.

I was once "the mom" of the kid enabling another.  I didn't realize ours was the ONLY house to which he would go! and one of the very very few places he would go. ever.  My son would take him places (he was driving.), and he would go.   Once he was here and we had to leave for half an hour and he was like "ok, see you".. . . he just hung out while we were gone.  Ok. whatever . . (we've known their family for many years.)  I later learned a lot more about just how socially disabled he is. And how grateful his parents were that he was comfortable here.

My oldest son is the same age as my friend's autistic son.  They played together all the time.  (now, as adults, they still sometimes have "playdates" lol.)  For me, it was a convenient playmate for a kid who craved stimulation (later learned he's also on the spectrum).  For her - it was much more because her son could be very difficult due to his autism.  I learned how much more - when dudeling was young and among his diagnosis/issues - is severe anxiety.   

 

Do playdates at your house/park/etc. as you're able. those are important experiences too.  Don't feel badly you're not reciprocating "in kind". (by spending $$$$)

[JustEm]

I'd honestly allow her to pay. You mentioned you'd pay, she insisted, and you accepted. She isnt buying your ds's friendship. She is investing in a friendship that is important to her ds who struggles with social anxiety.

She's likely cried over the hurt that she feels for her ds and feeling like she can't do anything to fix it. She's found an outlet and friendship he's thriving in and wants to support it to the best of her ability. 

So, I'd accept her paying it and just continue to support the friendship by inviting him over and including him in other activities.

 

Edited because I said is buying and meant isn't buying. Big error, sorry

Edited July 16, 2022 by hjffkj

[Jhwk21]

I would try to not overthink this. It seems that everyone except you is happy with the situation (I am assuming that the boys don't feel awkward since you hadn't mentioned it). I understand your concerns; they are valid. But you might be better served by taking a mental step back and letting things continue as is since the boys seem happy and it seems important that they be able to maintain their friendship.  The most I would do is suggest that you take turns paying for blocks and if she insists on paying for all, I would thank her and let it go at that point.

Also, please try to not think she is trying to "buy your son's friendship," as you said. She's just facilitating a fun activity that they both enjoy. When you do things for your kids' other friends, I'm sure you would never see it as buying their friendship. Thinking this of her casts her in a negative light that she probably doesn't deserve. I wonder if this something you are feeling as a result of overthinking.

And try hard to not feel the obligation you mentioned. It doesn't seem like they expect weekly reciprocation (or any reciprocation, really) or feel that you need to spend more money. I have felt that sort of self-imposed obligation before, but when I really thought about it, I realized it was a "me issue" and that I needed to mentally step back so my overthinking wouldn't get in the way of something good for the kids. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Jhwk21

[sassenach]

I would let it go. She's happy to pay, your son is happy to spend the time, his friend is happy and served by getting to rock climb with his friend...it's really just you who is having an issue with it. I would deprioritize your reaction to having someone pay for something for your kid and instead prioritize the way this is serving everyone else. That mom has probably felt lost about how to help her son and this is something tangible. Let her keep that.

[KungFuPanda]

Don’t undervalue your homemade food, the labor it takes to produce it, and the unstructured hang time the boys get at your house. I’m sure the friend lives a change of scenery.

I would let it go and let her have this block. When the next session comes up, thank her for the introductory block but you insist on paying your son’s tuition next time. You can always slip in and prepay early so you can tell her after the fact. 
 

 

 

[Corraleno]

I think you're missing a key factor in all this: the playdates at your house are almost certainly as important and socially valuable to this boy, if not more so, than the rock climbing playdates, and those are not experiences his mom can simply sign him up for. My son had a friend who was Aspie and had extreme anxiety, and his mom said our house was the only place he would willingly go alone, and she was so so grateful that we totally accepted him and made him feel comfortable and even accommodated some of his quirkiness about food. So I think you should set aside the idea that the relationship is somehow not equitable just because the experiences she provides cost more than the ones you provide — you are providing something that money can't buy. So I would gracefully allow the other mom to organize and pay for the rock climbing; it likely doesn't cost much more for two kids than it would for one, since the coach's time would be the same anyway.

[Kanin]

I would let the other mom pay, but also make it clear that your son would be just as happy to hang at their house and play video games. 

Perhaps her son really loves rock climbing and wants to do the activity with a friend. 

[LifeLovePassion]

As I like to tell myself when buying a new art item " it's cheaper than therapy" and as the mom of an anxious kiddo or 2, supporting them and their friends/activities is good for the overall person so it's a justifiable expense for her. 

[Katy]

Let her pay. Think of it as her gratitude for getting her kid out of the house. That’s valuable to her, and they’re learning an adventurous skill that from a cognitive perspective might be more effective than therapy at combating anxiety. 

Don’t feel the need to reciprocate weekly, but do think of this kid as a friend that you’d like to include. 

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

Have you ever had a child with severe social anxiety? 

Yes, I have. 

[gardenmom5]

54 minutes ago, LifeLovePassion said:

As I like to tell myself when buying a new art item " it's cheaper than therapy" and as the mom of an anxious kiddo or 2, supporting them and their friends/activities is good for the overall person so it's a justifiable expense for her. 

And it doesn't settle on your hips!

[Ausmumof3]

I would also feel awkward about that. I feel like someone inviting and paying for my kids on a casual basis is somehow different than of the payment is for a whole term. I don’t think I’d back out now, but I’d try to work something else out if you continue next term.

[Drama Llama]

2 hours ago, Jhwk21 said:

(I am assuming that the boys don't feel awkward since you hadn't mentioned it).

My kid is resigned to feeling like the "poor kid".  He thinks it's awkward, but that's kind of how his life goes.  

DH wouldn't be happy if he knew, but he doesn't.  He'd take it as an implication that he can't provide for his own children.  

[Drama Llama]

41 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I would also feel awkward about that. I feel like someone inviting and paying for my kids on a casual basis is somehow different than of the payment is for a whole term. I don’t think I’d back out now, but I’d try to work something else out if you continue next term.

I feel awkward about that.  

I just also feel like my life is so complicated, and it's going to get way more complicated in the fall when school is back.  Right now, I feel like since she's paying, I need to do things perfectly.  I feel bad if I say "can we change the time?" or like last week, I needed to pick up my kid right after, because he had to go to church on Saturday (my custody agreement says he needs to go each week) and he had an athletic competition on Sunday, so there was no dinner or hang out time.  It felt like I didn't hold up my end of the bargain.  

[Rosie_0801]

8 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I just also feel like my life is so complicated, and it's going to get way more complicated in the fall when school is back.  Right now, I feel like since she's paying, I need to do things perfectly.  I feel bad if I say "can we change the time?" or like last week, I needed to pick up my kid right after, because he had to go to church on Saturday (my custody agreement says he needs to go each week) and he had an athletic competition on Sunday, so there was no dinner or hang out time.  It felt like I didn't hold up my end of the bargain.  

Feeling bad about those things gets in the way of a good thing. You're giving her family some good karma, let her give you some. It's bad practice to tell Karma you don't like the way she's blessing you. A disability mum *knows* times have to be changed sometimes. Nobody even vaguely a friend holds anyone's custody orders against them. Disability mums don't have the luxury of perfectionism so are not expecting  it of you.  Holding up your end of the bargain is about being there, part of their life, for the long haul (however long that turns out to be, nobody expects forever.) It is not about you performing like a trick pony. They are paying to get something they want, they are not paying you to be their servant. These are the sort of friends you need. They can cope with the messiness of your situation because that kind of fragility has already been beaten out of them by their own realities.

Dd's bestie's mum invites us for dinner every week, and sometimes sends us home with leftovers. I feel like this is a dreadful imposition, especially when my kid is in one of those eating like a horse phases, while she has four who are short and don't eat much. She thinks me spending the petrol money for a three hour round trip each week is a dreadful imposition. Would it benefit anyone if we were to quit imposing on one another? No. Her daughter doesn't have any other IRL friends, so they don't want to lose dd from her life. I've been an autism mum, so I am not in the least bothered by their son's groove and I understand so know how to celebrate all those milestones one doesn't need to celebrate with a more standard child. They value that too. I am perfectly willing to spend the petrol money I have to see people who value us enough to have stuck by us through all the misery our last five years has held. We've even been invited for our regular dinner on Bestie's dad's birthday, because he felt best friends deserve right of access.

These kinds of "impositions" are not something to feel bad about so much as grateful for.

I had another friend, but his head is so head messed up he is now pretty much confining himself to his house so he doesn't impose on anyone and nobody can impose upon him. He seems to think this will cure his loneliness and depression, and funnily enough, it hasn't.

[Drama Llama]

4 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Feeling bad about those things gets in the way of a good thing. You're giving her family some good karma, let her give you some. It's bad practice to tell Karma you don't like the way she's blessing you. A disability mum *knows* times have to be changed sometimes. Nobody even vaguely a friend holds anyone's custody orders against them. Disability mums don't have the luxury of perfectionism so are not expecting  it of you.  Holding up your end of the bargain is about being there, part of their life, for the long haul (however long that turns out to be, nobody expects forever.) It is not about you performing like a trick pony. They are paying to get something they want, they are not paying you to be their servant. These are the sort of friends you need. They can cope with the messiness of your situation because that kind of fragility has already been beaten out of them by their own realities.

Dd's bestie's mum invites us for dinner every week, and sometimes sends us home with leftovers. I feel like this is a dreadful imposition, especially when my kid is in one of those eating like a horse phases, while she has four who are short and don't eat much. She thinks me spending the petrol money for a three hour round trip each week is a dreadful imposition. Would it benefit anyone if we were to quit imposing on one another? No. Her daughter doesn't have any other IRL friends, so they don't want to lose dd from her life. I've been an autism mum, so I am not in the least bothered by their son's groove and I understand so know how to celebrate all those milestones one doesn't need to celebrate with a more standard child. They value that too. I am perfectly willing to spend the petrol money I have to see people who value us enough to have stuck by us through all the misery our last five years has held. We've even been invited for our regular dinner on Bestie's dad's birthday, because he felt best friends deserve right of access.

These kinds of "impositions" are not something to feel bad about so much as grateful for.

I had another friend, but his head is so head messed up he is now pretty much confining himself to his house so he doesn't impose on anyone and nobody can impose upon him. He seems to think this will cure his loneliness and depression, and funnily enough, it hasn't.

I have taken so much from so many people over the past almost 4 years.  Like I never get to be the one who pulls my own weight.  And here is a situation where I could.  I don't understand how it's bad karma to want to do so.  

[Arctic Bunny]

I understand how you feel. But I do agree that the hanging out that you provide is also valuable. Maybe the other mom was on a message board, feeling bad that her son has finally clicked with someone and made a friend, but the other mom is always having him over, and making homemade dinners and because of (insert reason here), she can’t reciprocate. And maybe her e-maginary friends on the message board said, well maybe you can’t pull *that* off, but is there anything outside the house they can do? And she said, hey, they enjoy climbing, and it’s only $x to add a second kid…. What a great idea, I feel so much better!

[Drama Llama]

6 minutes ago, Arctic Bunny said:

I understand how you feel. But I do agree that the hanging out that you provide is also valuable. Maybe the other mom was on a message board, feeling bad that her son has finally clicked with someone and made a friend, but the other mom is always having him over, and making homemade dinners and because of (insert reason here), she can’t reciprocate. And maybe her e-maginary friends on the message board said, well maybe you can’t pull *that* off, but is there anything outside the house they can do? And she said, hey, they enjoy climbing, and it’s only $x to add a second kid…. What a great idea, I feel so much better!

They spend more time at his house, not including time at the gym or restaurants than they do at mine. 

I don’t think her son would go by himself.  I think he has only been with my kid.

[Arctic Bunny]

Just now, Baseballandhockey said:

They spend more time at his house, not including time at the gym or restaurants than they do at mine. 

I don’t think her son would go by himself.  I think he has only been with my kid.

Well, it was just a thought 🙂 I hope you find a solution that works for all of you!

[NewnameC]

1 hour ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I have taken so much from so many people over the past almost 4 years.  Like I never get to be the one who pulls my own weight.  And here is a situation where I could.  I don't understand how it's bad karma to want to do so.  

You were in an awful place where it took a lot of people to manage day to day life. That is what people do when others need help. 

You do a ton of things for others even though you are still in a hard place in life.

If your son enjoys this activity with this boy, let the mom pay and bring your son. I am big believer that people don’t offer to drive your kid and pay for your kid if they don’t want your kid to be there. you have given the mom lots of opportunity to ask for money. She would have told you if it was an issue.

Before the next sesion starts, talk to your son about his interest in continuing in fall. Follow his lead and talk to the mom. 
 

[SKL]

I think that for a regular thing, I'd politely insist on paying my kids' share of the coaching / tuition.

The food stuff is fine as long as you each treat some of the time.  It doesn't have to be exactly equal.  If it gets very lopsided, you could send something with your son, such as bagged snacks and/or drinks for the group.  You could send a batch of baked goodies for their family (made by your son or anyone in your house who enjoys baking).

[katilac]

13 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

 It felt like I didn't hold up my end of the bargain.  

You are overcomplicating it, and also not thinking well of the other mom by assuming she thinks you have struck a bargain and agreed to do X, Y, and Z with her kid every week in exchange for money. Has she given you a reason to think that she considers it a business arrangement and that you need to stick to your end of the bargain? 

You've already said yes, so I'd probably let it go. If it comes up in natural conversation, like she asks, should we sign the boys up for another block, then you can offer to pay (or even insist on paying for at least your own kid, if she is indeed giving you weird vibes). 

Regarding the mom taking them out for meals: I think it's fine to reciprocate hospitality in very different ways. However, it it's bothering you, there's always the simple solution of buying the kid a meal. Maybe they'd like to order pizza, buy a pile of candy, and rent a streaming movie. Have a sundae party with multiple types of ice cream, toppings, cones, whipped cream. Get Chinese takeout. 

If you are bothered by her spending money on your son via the lessons, then spend some money on her son, maybe climbing-adjacent. The gym almost certainly has merch, t-shirts at a minimum but probably more. If they don't have it already, offer to buy them each something on a week you drive. If they have the gym-specific merch, there is plenty of other stuff out there: shirts, hats, pins, stickers, mugs, patches. 

There are plenty of great rock-climbing books out there, that could be fun. Not the how-to kind, but memoirs of famous climbers and expeditions, or tales of specific adventures or disasters. What teen climber wouldn't enjoy the harrowing and disgusting story of Aron Ralston being trapped for days with his hand stuck in a crevice, eventually purposefully breaking his bones so he could hack off his hand with a dull knife? That's good stuff, plus a strong reminder to always leave info of your hiking and climbing plans. You could buy them the same books, or different books and they can trade. 

18 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I also feel that I can't do things like bring his brother along on the weeks I drive.  

Do you mean bring his brother along to rock climb? I think it's fine if he brings along his own friend, but I wouldn't routinely bring just him along regardless, because they should each be able to do things with their own friends. 

[Drama Llama]

4 hours ago, katilac said:

Do you mean bring his brother along to rock climb? I think it's fine if he brings along his own friend, but I wouldn't routinely bring just him along regardless, because they should each be able to do things with their own friends. 

I'd probably bring his cousin, and learn how to belay myself.  I do think that kids should be able to do things on their own, but the logistics of two kids and one parent make committing to an activity that takes several hours hard.  Our weekends are pretty tightly booked with sports, church, and visitation with their dad.  

My youngest at the tail end of recovery from a wrist injury, so bringing him hasn't been an option.