Transcripts for classes w/o grades - John Rosasco

[Amybeth123]

 

 

[cintinative]

I don't have any experience but I do know that people on here have awarded grades based on mastery before.  There is probably a thread in the pinned HS Motherlode. I will see if I can find it.

[Farrar]

Most students don't have to enter their individual grades on the Common App. There are exceptions - a handful of schools require the self-reported transcript. But even that has ways to enter a course without a traditional grade. You calculate the GPA yourself.

There are ways to get around giving a grade and there are success stories without them... but in the end, by far the easiest, best thing you can do for your kid is just assign a grade. Did they master the material? Did they complete the assignments? Then give them an A. And contextualize that in the course descriptions by saying that assessment was based on completion and mastery.

[cintinative]

What Farrar said, and there was a discussion here that might be helpful.

 

[EKS]

Since you are the one granting the credit for the course, the provider can be thought of as just another resource, like a textbook.  You can say in your course description that the course was taken with Mr. Rosasco who provided lessons, homework assignments, and tests (or whatever it was he provided).  Then go on to say that Mr. Rosasco only provides narrative feedback (or whatever sort of feedback he provides), and the grade recorded on the transcript is a reflection of that feedback.

The above will work best if you don't flag the courses on the transcript as being from a particular provider, so you're going to have to decide whether having a grade listed on the transcript is more important than signaling whatever it is that taking Mr. Rosasco's courses signals.

Edited July 7, 2022 by EKS

[cintinative]

15 minutes ago, Amybeth123 said:

Thanks for the replies. For classes that we've done at home, I've assigned grades. My question is specifically for those who have taken classes with Mr. Rosasco. Universities, such as MIT, Carnegie Mellon , etc. I'm sure know him and I don't want it to appear that we're being untruthful. If they are aware that he does not award grades, then it may appear that way if we report them. Thanks.

you could put a mark next to the class, like a footnote, and indicate on the transcript that grade was assigned by the parent.  Then in your course descriptions and/or list of outsourced providers you can explain that this provider does not assign grades, so you assigned grades based on mastery.

[Lilaclady]

16 minutes ago, Amybeth123 said:

Thanks for the replies. For classes that we've done at home, I've assigned grades. My question is specifically for those who have taken classes with Mr. Rosasco. Universities, such as MIT, Carnegie Mellon , etc. I'm sure know him and I don't want it to appear that we're being untruthful. If they are aware that he does not award grades, then it may appear that way if we report them. Thanks.

I honestly will be surprised that MIT and Carnegie Mellon care a bit about him and how he grades. I don’t mean to be condescending but I’m not sure that he teaches that many students that will factor in with admissions at those schools. How Many homeschoolers are admitted to MIt each year? I will be surprised if more than 10 and most of them will probably take AP calculus and have the grade from there. AOPS did not use to give grades and people found ways to give grades for their students work. I think you are placing too much importance on Mr. Rosaco. Do what Farrah suggested and give grades. The colleges don’t care that much. 

[Farrar]

I WAS talking about courses that are outside the home. Many co-op providers, tutors, and even some of the larger online outlets like Athena's and Online G3 don't give grades. I second the above advice - while the instruction at Math and Music Studio is supposed to be excellent, it's not so special that you need individualized advice. And admissions won't know him from Adam. Sorry, but that's just true. Your course description and the materials are what should contextualize the course, not the specific grade.

[Lilaclady]

I will suggest you spend some time reading through the site and gleaning from what has been shared. Cintinative also linked a thread that will be helpful. Lori D has loads of helpful threads that she has linked on the motherlode thread. All the best. 

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, Amybeth123 said:

I'm wondering if the people on here know how they sound? Can you hear yourselves? I've never asked a question on here before, but wow.

Are you offended bc they say that his name doesnt carry that much weight that he deserves a different level of consideration than other providers who dont give grades? I read through the responses and I dont see anything offensive. I see parents stating factually that you can provide a grade and explain in your course descriptions how that grade was derived. For example, if he took the BC exam and made a 5, that alone would be a good enough example.

FWIW, I dont give my kids tests. I give them letter grades and explain I teach to mastery. It is a perfectly accepted methodology.

Another FWIW, I personally wouldnt submit a transcript wo letter grades. Admissions wants things clear and easy. They assess applicants quickly. Non-letter grades makes things more complicated for them. If your student mastered the equivalent of that level of math, assigning a grade is not difficult. Explaining taught by outside teacher and parent provided grade is really a simple best option.

Edited July 7, 2022 by 8filltheheart

[Farrar]

Deleting your posts in a huff sort of speaks for itself. Sigh. 

I feel like we could really say the same to the OP. I know it's a stressful process, especially if your kid is going for really selective schools. But many of us have lots of experience. I hate to say it, but taking the approach in the process that your situation and your kid are special snowflakes is likely to yield disappointment in the end. Admissions have heard of a few large scale prestigious providers and programs, like CTY, but beyond that, they really don't know these things. I've talked to admissions folks who don't know AoPS from Math U See because they haven't heard of either of them. We assume that schools know this stuff because we're immersed in it. And while a few will have heard of some of it and you do occasionally get an admissions office that's familiar with more of the homeschool landscape, you have to go in assuming they don't know their elbows from their feet and that they won't be that impressed by anything.

I've seen some families here whose kids are genuinely impressive struggle in the process in part because they assume that the measures of success in the homeschool world will show well to top colleges. And they don't contextualize their kid very well in their paperwork. And then they end up disappointed. Or worse, they made an assumption that reaches were safeties and they end up with few options. Whatever you do, OP, make sure you have a balanced list.

[teachermom2834]

FWIW I thought everyone’s responses were helpful and what she was asking for. I had never heard of the provider but just figured it was because my kids aren’t smart enough. Lol. But I still agreed with all the advice. 🙂

 

[Amybeth123]

This is actually how people respond in places other than on this board? See? This is helpful. And normal. Obviously this was the wrong forum to post this question.

"My son took geometry, algebra/trig, and calculus with John Rosasco for fun. Based on what I know about John’s classes, I would put the classes on a homeschool transcript and assign As for the classes. I have talked to John and he mentioned why he doesn’t assign grades. He believes that all his students would earn As. The other higher level math classes on your son’s transcript should prove that your son earned As in John’s classes."

 

[KSera]

4 minutes ago, Amybeth123 said:

This is actually how people respond in places other than on this board? See? This is helpful. And normal. Obviously this was the wrong forum to post this question.

"My son took geometry, algebra/trig, and calculus with John Rosasco for fun. Based on what I know about John’s classes, I would put the classes on a homeschool transcript and assign As for the classes. I have talked to John and he mentioned why he doesn’t assign grades. He believes that all his students would earn As. The other higher level math classes on your son’s transcript should prove that your son earned As in John’s classes."

 

How is that substantially different from what was offered here except that people here went into a lot more depth? I thought you got a lot of really helpful replies 🤷‍♀️. Personally, this forum was invaluable for me in learning how to homeschool high school, prepare transcripts, and help my dc through the application process. 

[teachermom2834]

4 minutes ago, Amybeth123 said:

This is actually how people respond in places other than on this board? See? This is helpful. And normal. Obviously this was the wrong forum to post this question.

"My son took geometry, algebra/trig, and calculus with John Rosasco for fun. Based on what I know about John’s classes, I would put the classes on a homeschool transcript and assign As for the classes. I have talked to John and he mentioned why he doesn’t assign grades. He believes that all his students would earn As. The other higher level math classes on your son’s transcript should prove that your son earned As in John’s classes."

 

I feel like people told you to assign As if you felt that is what your student earned. I still do not know what offended you. People told you that you were free, as the parent, to assign the grade and encouraged you to do so. 

[Roadrunner]

I have a couple of things that didn’t assign grades and because I didn’t really need credit in them, I am using it as extracurricular. If I needed it on the transcript, I would do as suggested assign a grade myself and explain in course descriptions what and how. 

[Dmmetler]

Ask the instructor to write a recommendation. That will have more weight than his name on a class listing which even competitive schools will barely glance at. And competitive schools tend to want more recommendations. That's what we did for outside providers other than colleges, which had their own transcript. 

[mlktwins]

19 minutes ago, KSera said:

How is that substantially different from what was offered here except that people here went into a lot more depth? I thought you got a lot of really helpful replies 🤷‍♀️. Personally, this forum was invaluable for me in learning how to homeschool high school, prepare transcripts, and help my dc through the application process. 

I agree!!!

[Farrar]

It sounds like she just only wanted to hear from people who had taken these very specific classes and doesn't believe that other experiences, no matter how in depth, convey in any way. Like, mmkay.

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, Amybeth123 said:

This is actually how people respond in places other than on this board? See? This is helpful. And normal. Obviously this was the wrong forum to post this question.

"My son took geometry, algebra/trig, and calculus with John Rosasco for fun. Based on what I know about John’s classes, I would put the classes on a homeschool transcript and assign As for the classes. I have talked to John and he mentioned why he doesn’t assign grades. He believes that all his students would earn As. The other higher level math classes on your son’s transcript should prove that your son earned As in John’s classes."

 

That is pretty much the exact same advice you were given other than people didn't have kids who had taken his classes.   No one said anything personal at all.  The only possible thing that could have offended you was that the teacher was compared to other outsourced teachers vs. being a unique scenario (which is a valid pt that was made).    

FWIW, these forums are a great resource for information.  Posters are very helpful and knowledgeable. The hs2coll email group is as well.  Sue's response is pretty much an expansion of what was shared here.  Don't make things overly complicated.  Give grades.  Don't create a scenario where they are left guessing what was done.  (And yes, include courses completed before high school that are standard high school courses.  Whether or not you include those grades in their GPA is a different question than including them and giving credit.)  FWIW, don't rely on advanced math sequencing being equivalent to highly competitive.  It might or it might not--it really depends on their full application including ECs, leadership, high level awards (USAMO, for example), summer camps (RSI, PROMYS, SSP, etc)

[KSera]

I was thinking maybe it was offense over the idea that colleges might not know John Rosasco. But I don't know who John Rosasco is, so who am I to talk? 😂

[RoundAbout]

2 hours ago, Amybeth123 said:

This is actually how people respond in places other than on this board? See? This is helpful. And normal. Obviously this was the wrong forum to post this question.
 

 

Numerous posters here have gotten their kids into extremely selective schools (MIT, Stanford, etc.), full-ride scholarships to other schools, and into college as young as 14, it might be wise to have a dose of humility in the face of the many, many successful homeschoolers on this board. I didn't see anything offensive other than no one recognizing the provider. 

I've found the advice here absolutely outstanding and it gave me the confidence to homeschool high school and still shoot for selective colleges. I have a rising 10th grade student, who is extremely academically talented - AP Calc, AIME qualifier, multiple languages, academic camps, CTY, Davidson, blah, blah, blah, but I make no assumptions about colleges automatically recognizing the value of any of it. I'm here to learn from the people who have been there and done that and been successful. 

[JennyD]

Since the OP has apparently taken her ball and gone home, could I hijack this thread to ask how I should transcript a university class that my DS audited?  Essentially, the instructor wanted him in the class (DS had enrolled a class with her the previous semester and done very well) but the classes at this university are preposterously expensive, so she made it possible for him to take this course as an auditor, which made it free (yay!).   As it turned out, the course was an upper-level writing intensive, and DS did all the assignments because (1) he was way into it; and (2) I thought it would be educational, which it was.  

I am assuming that I don't give him any credit for this class nor do i assign a grade, just list it on the transcript as an audit and put the details about what he did/learned in the course descriptions.  Is that right?   The course was a ton of work and he learned loads, but I'm not sure that's relevant, transcript-wise.

Edited July 7, 2022 by JennyD

[Farrar]

24 minutes ago, JennyD said:

Since the OP has apparently taken her ball and gone home, could I hijack this thread to ask how I should transcript a university class that my DS audited?  Essentially, the instructor wanted him in the class (DS had enrolled a class with her the previous semester and done very well) but the classes at this university are preposterously expensive, so she made it possible for him to take this course as an auditor, which made it free (yay!).   As it turned out, the course was an upper-level writing intensive, and DS did all the assignments because (1) he was way into it; and (2) I thought it would be educational, which it was.  

I am assuming that I don't give him any credit for this class nor do i assign a grade, just list it on the transcript as an audit and put the details about what he did/learned in the course descriptions.  Is that right?   The course was a ton of work and he learned loads, but I'm not sure that's relevant, transcript-wise.

He officially audited or he informally audited? If it's the first, I think I'd still include it in your course descriptions and emphasize the above - that he did all the work and was specifically invited by the prof. If it's the second, I'd do that, but I'd probably also give a grade and say it's reflection completion of the course - the same thing we're all saying. And in your school profile, I'd make a note about auditing courses with special permission because of the cost. I made a note about the limited amount of dual enrollment my kid took being tied to the high cost because he had to go out of state.

[JennyD]

10 minutes ago, Farrar said:

He officially audited or he informally audited? If it's the first, I think I'd still include it in your course descriptions and emphasize the above - that he did all the work and was specifically invited by the prof. If it's the second, I'd do that, but I'd probably also give a grade and say it's reflection completion of the course - the same thing we're all saying. And in your school profile, I'd make a note about auditing courses with special permission because of the cost. I made a note about the limited amount of dual enrollment my kid took being tied to the high cost because he had to go out of state.

He officially audited.  And thanks, that's very helpful.  Putting a note in the school profile is a really good idea, especially if he winds up taking another course or two in the same department (which is possible).  Enrolling for credit is so insanely expensive, it's not really feasible for him to take multiple classes at this university except as an auditor.  

[EKS]

53 minutes ago, JennyD said:

I am assuming that I don't give him any credit for this class nor do i assign a grade, just list it on the transcript as an audit and put the details about what he did/learned in the course descriptions.  Is that right?   The course was a ton of work and he learned loads, but I'm not sure that's relevant, transcript-wise.

I don't see why you couldn't give him a grade.  My advice to the OP above about listing the non-credit granting provider as you would any other resource applies here as well.  Since he officially audited, you have that record to corroborate your story!

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, EKS said:

I don't see why you couldn't give him a grade.  My advice to the OP above about listing the non-credit granting provider as you would any other resource applies here as well.  Since he officially audited, you have that record to corroborate your story!

I think if I were to assign a grade, I would list it as my class to make sure it was clear grade was assigned by me and not by DE teacher. I would explain in a course description that it was an audit class.
I think assigning a grade that gives an impression that it’s a DE course and grade is by DE teacher is a no. 
 

 

[EKS]

40 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I think if I were to assign a grade, I would list it as my class to make sure it was clear grade was assigned by me and not by DE teacher. I would explain in a course description that it was an audit class.
I think assigning a grade that gives an impression that it’s a DE course and grade is by DE teacher is a no. 

I absolutely agree with the bolded.

[daijobu]

I recall wondering whether PA Homeschoolers was known to admissions officers since so many homeschoolers take their AP classes. 

I suspect there's a fair amount of turnover among the application readers who do a first pass on the applications.   I'm guessing they are new to the job, probably fresh out of school.  Not only are they unlikely to be homeschoolers, but unlikely to know very much at all about anything other than the basics.    

[shelleysboys]

Just a note of encouragement to those that respond so often to the questions on this board...  I have loved reading these boards. My first is accepted to UMass Lowell - this board was so helpful!!  Thanks to you all!

[Frances]

5 hours ago, Farrar said:

He officially audited or he informally audited? If it's the first, I think I'd still include it in your course descriptions and emphasize the above - that he did all the work and was specifically invited by the prof. If it's the second, I'd do that, but I'd probably also give a grade and say it's reflection completion of the course - the same thing we're all saying. And in your school profile, I'd make a note about auditing courses with special permission because of the cost. I made a note about the limited amount of dual enrollment my kid took being tied to the high cost because he had to go out of state.

This was what we did for officially audited classes. I included them on the transcript as audited, had full course descriptions, and mentioned in supporting documents the reason for the audits. My son was in a special program for gifted students at our local LAC where he could take two classes for credit each term for an unbelievably discounted cost ($200 each at a time when their tuition was about $40k). But by his senior year, he wanted more than two, so he started auditing additional classes, but did all of the work. One of his scholarship award letters specifically mentioned the fact that he took on additional college coursework through audit.

Edited to add that these were the not the only classes on his transcript without grades. Unlike many others here, he had a significant number of courses on his transcript without grades, so honestly I never considered assigning grades to his audited classes. Plus, I wanted his outside transcripts to match mine. But he did have excellent letters of recommendation from his college professors and co-op teachers and test scores that reinforced the grades he did have. He was accepted to several highly selective LACs and the honors college of the one uni he applied to and received excellent merit aid where it was available.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Frances