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My 10 year old just finished RSM 6.2 advanced pre-algebra class and did great, but the class is moving back to full in class and he preferred the flexibility of online.   I am looking for an extracurricular activity that doesn't have excessive homework, because he attends a b&m school and has homework for his math class in school.  Even with differentiation, school doesn't fully challenge him in math.  So to keep the spark we have done RSM since he was in kindergarten.  He loves the Beast Academy books and still takes them to bed, even though he finished them a couple years ago.  I've read several reviews from parents about AOPS that kids did part of the homework and were still fine.  He currently does about half to 75% of the RSM homework and still consistently scores around 100% on the quizzes.  I'd also appreciate if any of you have suggestions of online classes other the AOPS.  Unfortunately, many of the online classes I have seen are during school hours.

Thank you!

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The AOPS Online classes don't really have quizzes or tests. They do have problem sets each week with challenging problems. Some of the courses  also have writing problems, which are like proofs. AOPS Online classes also don't give traditional grades. Instead of a percentage or letter grade, they use colored bars. If you're not worried about getting an actual grade (it sounds like you aren't, since this is for enrichment and your child is in another school), then I suppose he could just do however much of the homework he has time to complete.  However, I'm not sure that taking the class this way would be worth the cost. The online class is completely text based. There is no video. There is no audio. So you're reading a transcript of a class in real time. The student is expected to come to class having already read the textbook chapter.  There also isn't really any "Real time" help or office hours. They have office hours (also text based), but it often takes awhile for answers to come through after you post your question.  If your son won't have time to do much work or reading outside of classtime, then it might be much more cost effective just to have him read the textbook on his own. Then, if he has time for "homework," he could use ALcumus, which is AOPS's online question bank.

Every kid is different, but in case it helps you to have an idea of what the workload is like: For my DD, she spends about an hour a day on AOPS Online classes (depending on the class).  Intro to Alg B was harder for her - it was her first online class and first experience with AOPS Online, and she sometimes spent 2+ hours a day on it. But none of the classes have been as intense for her since that one.  Python has been the easiest one for her so far.  I barely see her spend any time on it...

 

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The new 12th grader after-schooled Thinkwell from the third grade up.  We started with pre-algebra and finished with college calculus in 10th. Math was year round with the goal of keeping him at least two yeas above grade level.  It was low pressure, roughly 3 hours per week.  Because he did not accelerate at school., all school math was  review.  Thinkwell is all videos, with automatic gading of homework, and test.   We tried Derek Owen, a very popular option here, but it did not work for us.    We never tired AOPS.  There was no way that he was going to do all that reading.

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On 6/22/2022 at 1:52 PM, Sequoia Gifted said:

Have you looked to see if there are any Mathcounts teams or Math Circles in your area? 
 

Here’s another option, too, that one of my families passed along as a referral: live.poshenloh.com. 

^ Po Shen Loh is the national coach for the US International Math Olympiad team.

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How about RSM Online, at the .3 level instead of .2? We've been generally happy with our online RSM teachers, though we did switch once.

Otherwise, another kid (ds) really liked the typing format of AoPS online. Some kids like it. Some don't. 

RSM and AoPS are really different from each other. My RSM kid wouldn't really like AoPS, and my AoPS kid wouldn't have liked the video format. I do have one kid who has done great in both, though. The AoPS are a lot more puzzly than RSM, IMO. 

You could also just have your kiddo do a few Alcumus problems each day. 

We've found the AoPS homework load to vary a lot from class to class. The core classes seem to have a lot more work, whereas the number theory and counting and probability have a lot less. 

Emily

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 6/23/2022 at 6:31 AM, gstharr said:

from the third grade up.  We started with pre-algebra

Prealgebra in 3rd grade? Was this after just the 4 functions and a few applications or after accelerating through a full elementary curriculum?

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On 7/18/2022 at 8:40 AM, C&W'sMum said:

As per usual, this board is full of great suggestions!  I am particularly intrigued by the live.poshenloh.com option.  The website just seems engaging and fun, and the classes seem flexible.

I believe it's meant for highschool students - think AMC level

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12 minutes ago, Malam said:

Prealgebra in 3rd grade? Was this after just the 4 functions and a few applications or after accelerating through a full elementary curriculum?

This adventure started as a lark.  Our local community college offers a weekend kiddie college.  The kiddie college offers 1-6  grade math and english enrichment classes.  He was in pre-school at the time, and the program clearly statted "no pre-schoolers." But, we were going to the college for swimiming lessons anyway, so we sat in the 1st grade math class to what would happen.  Well, he got hooked on the class and finished the curriculum in six month, and then finished the second grade class in another  six months.  So by thime he got to kindergarten he had completed 2nd grade math. In kindergarten, we started 3rd grade math at CTY. CTY used Stanford's Red Bird math programs for elementary levels.  He finished 3rd grade math in  afew months,  but then took a year and took a 1 1/2 years to finsh 4th grade math.  He could handle the 4th grade math, but his reading had to catch up for the  word problems.  Now, he was in the 3rd grade at school, when  he flew through CTY''s 5th grade math so quickly that we decided to skip 6th grade math,  and hwent straight to pre-alg.  Pre-alg took 1 1/2 years of afterschooling as maturiety caught up.  So, by the 5th grade he was afterschooling alg1. 

From my experience and talking with other parents in the kiddie college, young kids can learn the 1-3 grade math curriculum much earlier than it is taught at school. Our accelertion resulted  basically from going to a one hour weekend class, and about three one hour lessons, per week, year round. 

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10 hours ago, gstharr said:

young kids can learn the 1-3 grade math curriculum much earlier than it is taught at school. Our accelertion resulted  basically from going to a one hour weekend class, and about three one hour lessons, per week, year round

Were those at-home classes following the same syllabus as the kiddie college? Also, did you have to lie about his age in order to sit in on the 1st class? Did he get hooked immediately or did it take a few weeks? Did the kiddie college compress a full 1st year curriculum into just a few weekend classes, or did they assign home lessons for parents?

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23 hours ago, Malam said:

Prealgebra in 3rd grade? Was this after just the 4 functions and a few applications or after accelerating through a full elementary curriculum?

Some kids just get there bc they master concepts very quickly or independently without needing to be taught.  My now post-college ds skipped levels of math simply bc of how he learns.  He taught himself the concept of multiplication and all of his multiplication tables simply through playing with Legos.  When I realized what he had done, I jumped him to a 3rd grade math book without his missing a step.  He ended up just doing portions of a 6th grade math book bc so much of it was review.   We only covered new concepts.  He took his first alg course at age 10.  

My current 7th grader will be in geometry this yr.  She isn't as natural at math concepts as her older brother.   She just learns things quickly.  I only had her working on math about 30-45 mins per day (and only 170ish days per yr), but she completed more than 1 grade level per yr.  

FWIW, I don't think there is anything special about being more advanced in math.  Strong mastery is a much better goal than advancing.  WHen they become decently advanced, you need to have a plan for how they are going to continue to have access to higher level math courses.  DE at a CC is most likely going to be a very poor fit for advanced math kids.  Having access to a 4 yr U that will allow them to enroll in math beyond cal 2 makes it easier. 

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On 7/19/2022 at 7:14 AM, Malam said:

Prealgebra in 3rd grade? Was this after just the 4 functions and a few applications or after accelerating through a full elementary curriculum?

My daughter did AOPS Algebra A  in 3rd grade. While it is not common, she is not the only one by far. We're currently at Epsilon Camp. Their main program is for 9-11 year olds, and campers must have completed Algebra 1 before attending. In her case, once she found out about Epsilon Camp, she was determined to go and she had one year to get from Beast Academy 4B through Algebra. She put in some extra time, I allowed her to test out of topics she felt she already knew by doing only the challenging problems, and she stuck to her goal. Every time it got hard, I simply said, "This is your goal, not mine. You can stop any time you want to." She'd usually kick something, grumble under her breath, and go back to doing math.

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10 hours ago, Jackie said:

My daughter did AOPS Algebra A  in 3rd grade. While it is not common, she is not the only one by far. We're currently at Epsilon Camp. Their main program is for 9-11 year olds, and campers must have completed Algebra 1 before attending. In her case, once she found out about Epsilon Camp, she was determined to go and she had one year to get from Beast Academy 4B through Algebra. She put in some extra time, I allowed her to test out of topics she felt she already knew by doing only the challenging problems, and she stuck to her goal. Every time it got hard, I simply said, "This is your goal, not mine. You can stop any time you want to." She'd usually kick something, grumble under her breath, and go back to doing math.

Being in 4B as a 7(?) year old in second grade is almost as impressive.

r.e. skipping stuff she already knew - was this just in the aops prealgebra, or through 4B to 5D as well?

When she found out about epsilon camp, did she hear specific stories or was the simple knowledge that a math camp existed enough to light her fire?

Did you give her the option of a less intensive prealgebra option than AoPS?

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On 7/23/2022 at 10:55 AM, Malam said:

Being in 4B as a 7(?) year old in second grade is almost as impressive.

r.e. skipping stuff she already knew - was this just in the aops prealgebra, or through 4B to 5D as well?

When she found out about epsilon camp, did she hear specific stories or was the simple knowledge that a math camp existed enough to light her fire?

Did you give her the option of a less intensive prealgebra option than AoPS?

In the BA books as well. If she could do the starred and challenge problems, there seemed little reason to make her do the rest. She had read Murderous Maths and some other mathy books on her own. She had watched some of the YouTube stuff like Vi Hart and Numberphile. Turns out she actually learned stuff from all that and could apply the information when a problem was put in front of her.

She actually skipped prealgebra altogether and went directly from BA5 to AOPS Algebra. We did look at the Prealgebra book, but the topics are all covered within BA and she detests repetition.

I did give her the option of a less intensive Algebra 1 program, and was able to get my hands on several other options for her to look over - Jacobs, Forester, a couple others. If she had chosen this, we might have gone back and hit at least some selections from AOPS afterwards. However, she looked at the other books, and most are of the "teach the kid how to do X, then have them practice doing X". She loves the discovery-based method that the AOPS books use, and decided she would rather power through AOPS.

As for Epsilon Camp, it was the knowledge that there would be a group of kids her age working at the same level as her in *any* subject. If I had found a similar camp in science or literature, she probably would have thrown herself into that. (Not writing, though. She would have drawn the line at writing.) She had met only a couple kids who were bright and actually liked academics and were into some of the same geeky things as her, so a camp full of them sounded like paradise. If math was the way to get to this paradise camp, then she would learn more math.

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On 7/26/2022 at 1:13 PM, Jackie said:

In the BA books as well. If she could do the starred and challenge problems, there seemed little reason to make her do the rest. She had read Murderous Maths and some other mathy books on her own. She had watched some of the YouTube stuff like Vi Hart and Numberphile. Turns out she actually learned stuff from all that and could apply the information when a problem was put in front of her.

She actually skipped prealgebra altogether and went directly from BA5 to AOPS Algebra. We did look at the Prealgebra book, but the topics are all covered within BA and she detests repetition.

I did give her the option of a less intensive Algebra 1 program, and was able to get my hands on several other options for her to look over - Jacobs, Forester, a couple others. If she had chosen this, we might have gone back and hit at least some selections from AOPS afterwards. However, she looked at the other books, and most are of the "teach the kid how to do X, then have them practice doing X". She loves the discovery-based method that the AOPS books use, and decided she would rather power through AOPS.

As for Epsilon Camp, it was the knowledge that there would be a group of kids her age working at the same level as her in *any* subject. If I had found a similar camp in science or literature, she probably would have thrown herself into that. (Not writing, though. She would have drawn the line at writing.) She had met only a couple kids who were bright and actually liked academics and were into some of the same geeky things as her, so a camp full of them sounded like paradise. If math was the way to get to this paradise camp, then she would learn more math.

You know, now that you mention it, CTY summer camp and Davidson's STARS summer canp might be the only other summer camps for similar kids.

By the way, did you use BA starting with BA 1 as your only curriculum? Did you take time to practice math facts / number bonds / mental math, or did you let her go as she could conceptually manage? When did she start learning math formally?

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On 7/26/2022 at 1:13 PM, Jackie said:

In the BA books as well. If she could do the starred and challenge problems, there seemed little reason to make her do the rest. She had read Murderous Maths and some other mathy books on her own. She had watched some of the YouTube stuff like Vi Hart and Numberphile. Turns out she actually learned stuff from all that and could apply the information when a problem was put in front of her.

She actually skipped prealgebra altogether and went directly from BA5 to AOPS Algebra. We did look at the Prealgebra book, but the topics are all covered within BA and she detests repetition.

I did give her the option of a less intensive Algebra 1 program, and was able to get my hands on several other options for her to look over - Jacobs, Forester, a couple others. If she had chosen this, we might have gone back and hit at least some selections from AOPS afterwards. However, she looked at the other books, and most are of the "teach the kid how to do X, then have them practice doing X". She loves the discovery-based method that the AOPS books use, and decided she would rather power through AOPS.

As for Epsilon Camp, it was the knowledge that there would be a group of kids her age working at the same level as her in *any* subject. If I had found a similar camp in science or literature, she probably would have thrown herself into that. (Not writing, though. She would have drawn the line at writing.) She had met only a couple kids who were bright and actually liked academics and were into some of the same geeky things as her, so a camp full of them sounded like paradise. If math was the way to get to this paradise camp, then she would learn more math.

What a wonderful math story! I hope she enjoys Epsilon Camp!! Let us know how she enjoys it - though it's too late for my very mathy kid...

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On 7/27/2022 at 2:40 PM, Malam said:

You know, now that you mention it, CTY summer camp and Davidson's STARS summer canp might be the only other summer camps for similar kids.

By the way, did you use BA starting with BA 1 as your only curriculum? Did you take time to practice math facts / number bonds / mental math, or did you let her go as she could conceptually manage? When did she start learning math formally?

calbear is correct. We used RightStart Math levels A, B, and a little bit of C. That's when we transitioned to BA3, which was the earliest book out at the time. The online version didn't even exist up until just as she was wrapping up BA5.

We never stopped to practice math facts. With RightStart, the games are the practice, but she hated the games - even while very young she could see right through them as thinly veiled drill and refused to do them. We played lots of actual games, though. Things like Yahtzee, Dragonwood, and Zeus on the Loose, which are actually fun. When we got to multiplication, I hung a multiplication chart above her desk and allowed her to use it all she wants. Memorization came with use, not drill.

As for learning formally, depends what you consider formal. I bought RightStart A when she was tiny because I found it at a good price. When she was 3, I would look through the instructor manual and see what they were teaching and how they were teaching it. I would then incorporate those concepts into play. Once she had those, I'd go back to the book and do the same thing. When she was 4, most her friends went to kindergarten and she said she wanted to start "real school, even if the school is at home" and part of her definition of that was "trickier math, with big numbers". I pulled out level B and we worked on it here and there. She picks up math intuitively, so often times one 15 minute lesson could cover the material in 2-4 lessons. I would say the first "you need to do math today" didn't come until we started BA, and that was only 3 days/week.

Once we started BA/AOPS, it was the only actual curriculum we used. However, curriculum has only been maybe 1/3 of her math. We found so many resources - fun math books, apps like Dragonbox, piles of games, good YouTube channels, and so on. This is probably her greatest strength with math - not that she is advanced or taking X class at Y age, but that she is exposed to a *huge* variety of math at all different levels. She reads books by mathematicians for fun. Last time we attended Epsilon Camp, I came out with an extensive resource list and she loved all of it. I ended up at a lunch table today with two of her instructors here and they casually talked about all sorts of math resources, so I started taking notes.

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14 hours ago, Mom_to3 said:

What a wonderful math story! I hope she enjoys Epsilon Camp!! Let us know how she enjoys it - though it's too late for my very mathy kid...

She LOVES Epsilon Camp. This is her last year here, as she will have completed their highest level and graduate from the program in a couple days. It's been an amazing experience for her and she's said that camp is ending so soon.

How old is your very mathy kid?

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On 6/20/2022 at 8:26 AM, C&W'sMum said:

My 10 year old just finished RSM 6.2 advanced pre-algebra class and did great, but the class is moving back to full in class and he preferred the flexibility of online.   I am looking for an extracurricular activity that doesn't have excessive homework, because he attends a b&m school and has homework for his math class in school.  Even with differentiation, school doesn't fully challenge him in math.  So to keep the spark we have done RSM since he was in kindergarten.  He loves the Beast Academy books and still takes them to bed, even though he finished them a couple years ago.  I've read several reviews from parents about AOPS that kids did part of the homework and were still fine.  He currently does about half to 75% of the RSM homework and still consistently scores around 100% on the quizzes.  I'd also appreciate if any of you have suggestions of online classes other the AOPS.  Unfortunately, many of the online classes I have seen are during school hours.

Thank you!

And now that the thread has been derailed, I'll come back to the original post to say that a lot of mathy kids really enjoy EMF. We haven't used it, so no personal experience, but AOPS, RSM, and EMF have all been strongly recommended by parents at Epsilon. It is online and self-paced.

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DS11, a rising 7th grader entering Math 2 class at his school, has been taking online year round contest math classes at Momentum Learning based in Sugar Land TX. They use zoom for meeting/recording and canvas to give handouts and grade homework/tests. They also offer TA sessions. No other support, and occasionally canvas grading could be messed up.  Canvas contents are disabled within a few weeks after the class is over. Their classes are either weekday evenings or weekends, which fit his schedule nearly perfectly.

He tried Aops online and Aops virtual academy recently for the first time for non math classes and totally enjoyed them.

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On 7/28/2022 at 5:05 PM, Jackie said:

I came out with an extensive resource list and she loved all of it. I ended up at a lunch table today with two of her instructors here and they casually talked about all sorts of math resources, so I started taking notes.

Can you share the resource list or those notes?

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