Give me your thoughts ... would you be concerned (student not reaching potential)?

[Insertcreativenamehere]

I have a 17 yo son who was homeschooled for part of elementary/middle school. Of my four children, he was definitely the most capable/academically-inclined. He used to make extra math worksheets for himself, did his own self-assigned copywork and was even a bit of a perfectionist when it came to things like handwriting and grammar.

He went back to school in 8th grade to a public middle school that is highly-regarded. He did the bare minimum, got almost all As, and internalized the culture of apathy. Standards were low and overall student behavior was poor. We sent him to a small private high school beginning in 9th grade. His transition to high school was rocky academically with many missed assignments and lack of motivation. He basically admits to hating "school" - meaning academics - at this point. He is a gifted and hardworking multi-sport athlete, is well-liked and has several good mentors/teachers/coaches who see that he's far more capable than his GPA shows. He does the bare minimum to maintain a B average. At home, he is not particularly tidy or organized. He loses things all the time. He wants to go to college but will get little to no need-based aid and yet he really needs to get some merit aid to make private college feasible. (In the meantime, his younger brother transitioned directly from homeschool to the same private high school and is doing extraordinarily well.) 

My husband and I were both highly motivated students who did well in high school/college/grad school with very little involvement/cajoling/handholding from our parents. My DH, who is quite frankly a perfectionist, is convinced that DS is immature, will never get it together and is doomed to some sort of low-level job and a subpar future. I totally disagree and agree that he is maybe a little immature but he will figure out a path for himself and it doesn't have to look like anyone else's. He can be successful in life without following the exact same path as DH. I do wonder if he might have ADHD as it tends to run in the family. 

Am I the one off-base or is DH? Isn't it pretty common for teens to have messy rooms and not particularly like academics? With his B average, he has not closed doors for himself (other than merit aid, perhaps.) He is not aiming for a selective college. He wants to go to a not particularly-selective private college, or perhaps community college to start out. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Insertcreativenamehere

[maize]

Is your husband expressing these thoughts in front of your son?

I'm with you, your kid sounds like a pretty normal teen and there is no reason at all to ascribe a future of failure to him.

[HomeAgain]

It's pretty hard to know how anyone will turn out.

I remember feeling despair with oldest ds.  He wasn't getting it together, he didn't care about the work...bright kid, but.. He ended up falling into another great group of friends, found a few teachers he really connected with, and......promptly slogged through his first full year of college.

He hasn't taken the path we thought he would.  BUT, he took some time, figured out what he wanted, and is going back to finish college in the fall on a slightly different degree plan.  He needed time to work full time and find out what he thought was valuable.

It was a lesson in loving the kid in front of me, not the kid I wanted him to be.  There was a lot of unwilling patience, firm boundaries, and allowing growth within his own mistakes while sitting back like Willy Wonka saying "no. don't. stop." 

[Insertcreativenamehere]

Just now, maize said:

Is your husband expressing these thoughts in front of your son?

I'm with you, your kid sounds like a pretty normal teen and there is no reason at all to ascribe a future of failure to him.

He has expressed frustration with him but he has not said those specific words to DS directly, but to me. I do think that DH is at risk of damaging their relationship over this. There are bigger personality issues at play than I feel comfortable going into here. 

[freesia]

Sounds really normal to me. You will both be amazed at how much he grows up in the next few years. And your dh is being super judgy here tbh. He will certainly get himself together but a B average is not failing. He’s a successful athlete which is building soft skills for the rest of his life. He is well liked. He sounds like a great kid. It’s way to early to predict his job future. And even if he chooses a less lucrative path, so what?  Your dh needs to back up and put this in perspective. If ds was angry, failing and on drugs he would have cause for concern, but a well liked, smart, athletic B student???

Edited June 17, 2022 by freesia

[freesia]

7 minutes ago, Insertcreativenamehere said:

He has expressed frustration with him but he has not said those specific words to DS directly, but to me. I do think that DH is at risk of damaging their relationship over this. There are bigger personality issues at play than I feel comfortable going into here. 

I wonder if your dh is struggling with anxiety. Most perfectionist are. I ask bc I can go nuclear with doom for my kids, too. That’s why I know he needs to step back and see what is truly in front of him. 

[Insertcreativenamehere]

2 minutes ago, freesia said:

Your dh needs to back up and put this in perspective. If dh was angry, failing and on drugs he would have cause for concern, but a well liked, smart, athletic B student???

Totally agree. DH has definite issues with his own perfectionism that are impacting his outlook on this issue. I said basically the same thing as you said above to him yesterday. 

[Insertcreativenamehere]

3 minutes ago, freesia said:

I wonder if your dh is struggling with anxiety. Most perfectionist are. I ask bc I can go nuclear with doom for my kids, too. That’s why I know he needs to step back and see what is truly in front of him. 

I don't want to get into this too deeply for privacy reasons but yes - that is a definite possibility. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

None of us reach our “full “ potential. What a burden to strive for perfection all the time. Of course your son can come into his own later. 17 is not close to being fully developed especially in the brain. 

[maize]

18 hours ago, Insertcreativenamehere said:

Totally agree. DH has definite issues with his own perfectionism that are impacting his outlook on this issue. I said basically the same thing as you said above to him yesterday. 

The term for what he is doing is catastrophizing. It is not rational.

https://www.healthline.com/health/anxiety/catastrophizing#treatment

My husband suffers from chronic depression and anxiety and is prone to it. I tell him outright when he starts projecting horrific futures for our children that his brain is catastrophizing. I also sometimes tell him I will not listen to anyone talking in a harsh, judgmental way about my children, and I walk away. He doesn't need those particular thoughts validated.

The solution has been treatment for my husband. Some of my kids do have serious challenges, but catastrophic, judgmental, and irrational projections are in no way going to help them.

[freesia]

One thing that helps me when I’m catastrophizing about the kids is to stop and name three things that are going well. When we were in a hard time where it was easy to catastrophize, my therapist would listen and affirm that I was worried and then say, what is going well right now with that child?  It helps so much and is still a tool dh and I use when we can’t see the forest for the trees.  Would he respond well to you doing that with him?

[Lawyer&Mom]

I was a highly motivated, academically focused kid with a lot of anxiety who despaired about the lack of future prospects for my high school classmates who weren’t equally academically focused.  Turns out there are *a lot* more ways to be successful than I thought.  Like some of the straight Cs students with amazing social skills are working in medical sales and making way more money than I do.  Or the classmates who opened restaurants!  Or teach kids to mountain bike! (I would be horrible at all of these things!) The world needs and values a huge array of skills, only some of which are reflected in high school GPAs.

As much as I can see a wider perspective as an adult, I can still imagine freaking out if it was my kid who might not follow the highly-academically focused path.  Anxiety is a beast.  I feel for your husband. 

[Insertcreativenamehere]

3 hours ago, maize said:

The term for what he is doing is catastrophizing. It is not rational.

This is a really good point. I've noticed this sort of thinking on DH's part in a variety of contexts and am glad to finally have a word for it. I've tried to address this over the years in different ways, including through counseling, but it has not been successful. 

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Turns out there are *a lot* more ways to be successful than I thought.

For sure! I have seen this in my own family of origin. However, DH is a rather rigid thinker so in his mind, there is only one way to be successful -- not just to be academically-motivated, but to take a similar college/career path as he did. 

2 hours ago, freesia said:

One thing that helps me when I’m catastrophizing about the kids is to stop and name three things that are going well.

This is a great strategy. I'll try this with DH when similar situations come up. Thanks for sharing. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Insertcreativenamehere

[Lawyer&Mom]

39 minutes ago, Insertcreativenamehere said:

For sure! I have seen this in my own family of origin. However, DH is a rather rigid thinker so in his mind, there is only one way to be successful -- not just to be academically-motivated, but to take a similar college/career path as he did. 

Hey, I’m Autistic.  I totally *get* rigid thinking!  The path we took is one that we know is safe.  And so few things feel safe.  In my daydreams my Autistic daughter ends up studying at a university very much like where I studied, then she studies abroad very near to where I studied abroad, then she does almost the same grad school… And this is me trying to be open minded!    It’s so hard.  

[SKL]

Does your son have a vision of his future - specifically, in what way he plans to contribute to the world while supporting himself?  If so, then I wouldn't worry.  If not, then I think that would concern me.

I have two rising 11th graders.  Like your son, they won't receive need-based financial aid, and don't seem likely to receive merit-based aid either.  I'll be honest, I am not 100% relaxed about what I see.  My biggest concern is the kid who is very bright but lacks motivation or vision.  I feel that she needs to get some idea what she wants to do with herself, even if her dream is unlikely to actually happen.  Does that make sense?

I'm totally cool with a community college / state university path, as long as there is some direction.  But when my kid starts talking about applying to private colleges without having ever been serious for more than a month?  I struggle with how to respond to that.  Whether it's immaturity or something else, her dreams need to converge with her actions fairly soon.

My other kid has had a goal for years.  It isn't an easy goal to meet, nor an inexpensive path, but I feel better about her mindset.  I feel that if, a couple years into college, she decides that her dream is unrealistic, or something else fits better, her efforts will transfer to something still fulfilling.

What grade is your son going into?  Does he have time to chill or does he need to make decisions soon?

[Insertcreativenamehere]

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What grade is your son going into?  Does he have time to chill or does he need to make decisions soon?

He's a rising senior. He'll be taking some early college classes on his high school campus this coming year. That may help him think about what next steps are best for him. Many of his friends are a year older so seeing the various paths they take might help him narrow down his options, too.  The college options he's considering are mostly local and flexible in terms of application deadlines so he has time. 

[Ting Tang]

I think my only concern would be if he does want to go to a private college right away and needs some type of academic scholarship, his B-average might hurt him.  And that could lead to a lot of debt.

Community college might be a better plan.  If he gets better grades there, maybe he could qualify for a transfer scholarship.

My main concern is really just reducing the accumulation of debt because despite receiving academic scholarships, I still acquired debt, and I am still living with it.  (Sorry, I must've deleted my last thought!)

Edited June 19, 2022 by Ting Tang