Updates 2023 (job hunt etc)

[Hilltopmom]

Keep texting him, even if he doesn’t respond.

my grown aspie kid rarely responds to my texts but I still send them a few times a week to say hi, or wow- it’s hot today, or hey saw such and such today and though of you , or whatever..

[Eos]

21 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

BTDT with a really angry 14 yr old after a messy divorce, and I will reiterate what a couple of other BTDT moms said above about starting with a clean slate every day (or whenever you interact with him), and never giving up the drip drip drip of positive attention and reinforcement, even if it seems to be having no effect.

I agree with this, but it's so hard to do when you're empty. Filling up might be therapy for you, Heart, because you can only work on you at this point, but I also hope you can figure out a way to refill a little bit every day to have the strength to offer the clean slate and the one-way texts.  Exercise, time in nature, calls with friends - stuff that's free but gives you a little more nourishment in so you can spend a little out each day on this relationship.  

I always felt like each teen year corresponded to the similar toddler age: 12 was like two, 13 was like three.  14 is like the four year olds who live in perpetual fantasy world.  You have to keep your feet on the ground and don't let him sweep you away with his anger, just like you did when he was throwing tantrums at 4. 

I am so sorry you are suffering.

 

[freesia]

10 minutes ago, Eos said:

I agree with this, but it's so hard to do when you're empty. Filling up might be therapy for you, Heart, because you can only work on you at this point, but I also hope you can figure out a way to refill a little bit every day to have the strength to offer the clean slate and the one-way texts.  Exercise, time in nature, calls with friends - stuff that's free but gives you a little more nourishment in so you can spend a little out each day on this relationship.  

I always felt like each teen year corresponded to the similar toddler age: 12 was like two, 13 was like three.  14 is like the four year olds who live in perpetual fantasy world.  You have to keep your feet on the ground and don't let him sweep you away with his anger, just like you did when he was throwing tantrums at 4. 

I am so sorry you are suffering.

 

Wow, I'd never thought of the 14 like 4 connection.  I definitely have seen that (and the others, I just knew about that.)  I can think of ways my first two at 14 were definitely in a fantasy world.  My oldest even talks about it as--when I was 14 and stupid and thought I could get all my schoolwork done while looking at Bionocle pictures all day. He just shakes his head.  My next at 14 was more in a  haze of romantic fantasy and sure that things with only a teeny percent of chance of happening would happen for sure.  This is helpful as I have another 14 year old coming up next year. lol

[Jaybee]

@bolt.I just wanted you to know that I copied and pasted your 1001 post to my desktop so I can read it as a reminder for dealing with my own challenging person. Thanks so much!

[Rosie_0801]

He's dumping on you because it's safer than upsetting his dad. 
My dd has had a meltdown just about every time I've seen her for the past 5 years and I'm the parent she likes!

Have any of these therapists actually taught either of you how trauma works?

 

The rest of you, lay off. If you've never been minced like this, you don't know what you're talking about.

[MercyA]

(((( @heartlikealion ))))

[Ann.without.an.e]

5 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

He's dumping on you because it's safer than upsetting his dad. 
My dd has had a meltdown just about every time I've seen her for the past 5 years and I'm the parent she likes!

Have any of these therapists actually taught either of you how trauma works?

 

The rest of you, lay off. If you've never been minced like this, you don't know what you're talking about.

This, all of this.

Not a perfectly aligned example, but when dd’s anxiety was super high, she dumped on me. I was her safe place. She put on a perfect face to DH. DH is a good dad, but he isn’t as emotionally present and wouldn’t have taken her unleashing as well and she knew it. I endured a lot of lashing out and it doesn’t feel good being the safe space in the moment, that’s for sure. 

[Melissa in Australia]

9 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Yes I can invite him to dinner or lunch so he can complain about my food some more lol it all feels like a trap. Maybe dine out 

You do know that just about all youngish teens complain about their parents cooking. It is part of being a teen. 

They don't realise how good it was until they are living by themselves and do their own cooking. 

[heartlikealion]

5 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

You do know that just about all youngish teens complain about their parents cooking. It is part of being a teen. 

They don't realise how good it was until they are living by themselves and do their own cooking. 

No. It didn’t occur to me because he says he likes dad’s food. But also I’ve made him things he just didn’t bother to eat, too (made sweet potato casserole because he loves it and then didn’t eat it or hardly touched it). 

———
Moving forward I will not frame the comments as gaslighting. That is helpful. 

Just met with a priest about my annulment. They want 3 witnesses ugh gotta ask a third person. 

[Melissa in Australia]

One thing that I did with my ds 18 when he was younger was every time he said how bad my cooking was or how much he hated me I would respond with a big smile and say I love you.  (he didn't have anything like the trauma that you guys are going through, but struggled with us fostering twins brother for a short while) 

Every time he sent me a message about anything, even " mum come pick. Me up from work" I would respond with a love heart that would send hundreds of hearts popping all over his phone.   At first he would roll his eyes. But then he got use to it, and I think it was something he needed to be constantly hearing. Now he has left home he occasionally sends my phone the hearts popping emojo

[Jaybee]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

He's dumping on you because it's safer than upsetting his dad. 
My dd has had a meltdown just about every time I've seen her for the past 5 years and I'm the parent she likes!

Have any of these therapists actually taught either of you how trauma works?

 

The rest of you, lay off. If you've never been minced like this, you don't know what you're talking about.

Consider this liked

[fairfarmhand]

50 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

No. It didn’t occur to me because he says he likes dad’s food. But also I’ve made him things he just didn’t bother to eat, too (made sweet potato casserole because he loves it and then didn’t eat it or hardly touched it). 

———
Moving forward I will not frame the comments as gaslighting. That is helpful. 

Just met with a priest about my annulment. They want 3 witnesses ugh gotta ask a third person. 

There’s so much good stuff on this thread that I don’t have any fresh insights to add, but I did want to say that I’m sorry your ds is being snotty to you and I hope he snaps out of it soon. I’ve been on the receiving end of that and it’s brutal on a mamas heart. And your heart is already so very fragile From what you’ve endured in the last few years. Hang in there!

[heartlikealion]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

He's dumping on you because it's safer than upsetting his dad. 
My dd has had a meltdown just about every time I've seen her for the past 5 years and I'm the parent she likes!

Have any of these therapists actually taught either of you how trauma works?

 

The rest of you, lay off. If you've never been minced like this, you don't know what you're talking about.

Maybe maybe not? My lady group class picks apart trauma and I’ve read part of The Body Keeps the Score. My individual therapist does IFS therapy with me. We go back to past events where I first felt that same emotion. It’s complicated. But helpful. No one in therapy with ds has done work with trauma I think? 

[Spryte]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

He's dumping on you because it's safer than upsetting his dad. 
My dd has had a meltdown just about every time I've seen her for the past 5 years and I'm the parent she likes!

Have any of these therapists actually taught either of you how trauma works?

 

The rest of you, lay off. If you've never been minced like this, you don't know what you're talking about.

This. 
 

 

[Rosie_0801]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

Maybe maybe not? My lady group class picks apart trauma and I’ve read part of The Body Keeps the Score. My individual therapist does IFS therapy with me. We go back to past events where I first felt that same emotion. It’s complicated. But helpful. No one in therapy with ds has done work with trauma I think? 

I read this to dd. It was a little above her head at the time, but she was receptive, so we made it work. https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Guide-Child-Trauma-Guides/dp/1785921363
 

Sometimes dealing with the content generates more pain, rather than resolving anything. Sometimes the knowledge of how it all works can depersonalise things a bit. No one thinks it's helpful to have an amygdala meltdown in the middle of anything, but *that's just what brains do* and there's only so much one can do to negotiate with it.

Chapters 6-10 of 'The Tao of Trauma' have been very helpful here too. I've often had dd retell the story of what *should* have happened when we've hit some kind of trauma weird thing. It's messy, but it gets us to where we need to be; it's a way of tricking our subconscious who can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy, into thinking it got what it needed to calm down. She tends to begin with "I should have this, I should have that, WAH!" but we work it into "I did this, I did that" and then we both feel like it could have happened that way, so it wasn't quite so bad that it didn't. You could do this, write short stories or something. "In an alternative universe, we went to the concert and it was great."

Your boy doesn't have the option of learning to negotiate with his trauma. It's driving his life, and he hasn't even been properly introduced. At the moment, he is a pain factory and probably thinks he is supposed to be a pain factory. No one has told him how the factory works and that he can gradually cut down the auto-appointed manager in there's hours and replace him with his own self, let alone how to do it.

[heartlikealion]

10 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I read this to dd. It was a little above her head at the time, but she was receptive, so we made it work. https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Guide-Child-Trauma-Guides/dp/1785921363
 

Sometimes dealing with the content generates more pain, rather than resolving anything. Sometimes the knowledge of how it all works can depersonalise things a bit. No one thinks it's helpful to have an amygdala meltdown in the middle of anything, but *that's just what brains do* and there's only so much one can do to negotiate with it.

Chapters 6-10 of 'The Tao of Trauma' have been very helpful here too. I've often had dd retell the story of what *should* have happened when we've hit some kind of trauma weird thing. It's messy, but it gets us to where we need to be; it's a way of tricking our subconscious who can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy, into thinking it got what it needed to calm down. She tends to begin with "I should have this, I should have that, WAH!" but we work it into "I did this, I did that" and then we both feel like it could have happened that way, so it wasn't quite so bad that it didn't. You could do this, write short stories or something. "In an alternative universe, we went to the concert and it was great."

Your boy doesn't have the option of learning to negotiate with his trauma. It's driving his life, and he hasn't even been properly introduced. At the moment, he is a pain factory and probably thinks he is supposed to be a pain factory. No one has told him how the factory works and that he can gradually cut down the auto-appointed manager in there's hours and replace him with his own self, let alone how to do it.

Thank you 

[Ann.without.an.e]

7 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Your boy doesn't have the option of learning to negotiate with his trauma. It's driving his life, and he hasn't even been properly introduced. At the moment, he is a pain factory and probably thinks he is supposed to be a pain factory. No one has told him how the factory works and that he can gradually cut down the auto-appointed manager in there's hours and replace him with his own self, let alone how to do it.

 

So true. I think the most destructive things are those that aren't recognized, named, or understood. If someone denies they have trauma (or any issue), how can they deal with it? They go about their lives with all of these complex struggles and feelings and reactions that they think are their own but really trauma and pain are spoon feeding the narrative. Same with mental health, dd denied that she had anxiety for years and she was a hot mess of emotions and stress and reactions. Once she was willing to see it for what it was, she was able to roll up her sleeves and deal with it. 

[barnwife]

OP, I am sorry you are going through such a tough season. I agree with pp, to continue showing your love in small ways (texts, lunch/dinner out, etc...). 

You mentioned somewhere in this thread that you are seeking an annulment. I don't know if you have seen the new program from Ascension Press titled Surviving Divorce, but I just wanted to let you know it's there. FWIW, I have absolutely no experience with it.  I have, however, used other things from Ascension and I can't think of any I haven't enjoyed. 

I hope you are able to find a positive path forward both for yourself and your relationship with your son (kids). I'll keep you in my thoughts.

 
 

Edited June 10, 2022 by barnwife
to fix typos - I shouldn't post and nurse a baby!

[heartlikealion]

I’ve been taught in a positive parenting group before that kids let it all out where they feel safe, but that has never felt like the type of letting it out I see with ds. It could be that it is, and I’m just slow to recognize it. 

I remember months ago addressing the grieving for his grandma (my MIL) to xh and xh dismissing it saying ds was basically fine. Then ds was crying at my house another visit and didn’t reveal to me it was grandma related. Xh later told me ds conveyed that to him (he often calls and texts his dad while he’s here). Since I had lost my mother earlier during the pandemic, and because I have 2 brain cells, I knew that grief wasn’t wrapped up within a few weeks. It will come in waves.

Another thing that I’ve struggled with during all this is my mother was barely discussed/grieved over, by my family. She was never able to hold dd and only held ds once or twice on her lap with us beside her because of her Parkinson’s. My kids had such a limited relationship with her. So I kinda felt like I grieved alone. I have told myself while it’s nice when a child tries to comfort their parent or grandparent, it’s not a role reversal I think is super appropriate at their ages. I felt a lot of times the kids were worried about dad after MIL died. That’s not their job. And dd sent a letter to FIL comforting him. I think I’m the only one that found this strange… I shared with a girlfriend and she said it’s sweet. I don’t think I ever shared my thoughts with xh. There’s just a part of me that says no it’s not their burden to comfort the adults in their life. So maybe I have some emotional maturity. 

[heartlikealion]

Something I didn’t share that is significant I think. He blames me for the divorce. One time, unprompted, he blurted out that the divorce is my fault and I was just mean to dad. To which I replied, “the divorce is not just one person’s fault.” Man you know it took all I had in me to calmly say that!! Lol this was over spring break at my dad’s. It was an especially hard visit since ds, dd, and I all shared a bedroom (separate futon mattresses). The kids kept disrupting each other at bedtime. Ds pranked dd by pretending a ghost touched her foot (I genuinely didn’t think he did it at first because he was far away and I told her it was probably the fan blowing the sheet). He finally admitted it and when I scolded him he thought I was mean. She was physically very startled and upset. Ds is the type that can dish it out but can’t take it. Which is why sometimes I think could be a spectrum thing (reading tone, social cues. The tone is also related to APD). When we joke with him it can fall flat and he gets very hurt. When he jokes with us we usually laugh. Dd can be the butt of a joke and take it like a champ. 

I had hoped ds would have his own room that visit but my sister & BIL were there (plus my aunt that lives there) so we played musical rooms. If we visit again I’ll be sure he has his own space. 

I know I’m typing a novel but this thread, even with the criticisms, has been very eye opening. Like I know some of this stuff but needed reminded… and other things were blind spots. Thank you ❤️ 

not gonna lie, it did hurt that people were liking the very “mean” post lol but I’m a big girl and I know I just gotta take the useful stuff and dismiss the noise. 

I can’t remember where it was but someone suggested I focus on some other stuff — I want you to know I do 🙂 I’ve gotten back into exercise (I’m on the well-trained bodies June thread), I’m participating in the Facebook St. Jude baking challenge (after I gave my lawyer a big fat check I mentioned my fundraiser and he gave a substantial donation) where I bake a new thing each week and give away to donors etc, I’ve attended 2 Meetup group events (now I work with one of the guys and together we’ve been improving my company website), I’ve put the old Top Gun movie on hold at the library and plan to take myself to see the new one in the theatre afterwards. I stay busy and not just wallow 🙂 

Xh will drop off ds Monday morning and I hope we can spend some time together while dd is at VBS. He can join me to watch tv while I work or go off by himself but hopefully we have a pleasant interaction. 

 

[ktgrok]

And remember, even if the interaction isn't pleasant (because teens are often UNpleasant to be around), it is still important. Just that you were there. The biggest thing for them to remember when they are grown is that you were always there for them. Even when they were little jerks. (or big jerks...i think sometimes it is harder when they look so adult!)

[Ann.without.an.e]

21 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Something I didn’t share that is significant I think. He blames me for the divorce. 

 

Hang in there ❤️
I’ve known many kids who blamed a parent but came around in time. Love him and stay consistent and one day he will most likely  mature and see the whole picture more clearly and you won’t be the enemy anymore. This may come with more grown up convos that you can’t have yet because of his age. Also it’s all possibly too new and raw for you to even have centered, balanced convos. Time will give you more reflection to have those convos. Until then love him hard.  

[saw]

I don't have anything helpful to add, but wanted to say that this sounds like a difficult situation, and I hope things get better sooner rather than later.

[ktgrok]

My mom shared this from someone yesterday and I thought of this thread. 

Dear Mom and Dad,

Please stick with me.

I can’t think clearly right now because there is a rather substantial section of my prefrontal cortex missing. It’s a fairly important chunk, something having to do with rational thought.

You see, it won’t be fully developed until I’m about 25. And from where I sit, 25 seems a long way off.

But here's what I want my parents to know..

My brain is not yet fully developed.

It doesn’t matter that I’m smart; even a perfect score on my math test doesn’t insulate me from the normal developmental stages that we all go through.

Judgement and intelligence are two completely distinct things. And, the same thing that makes my brain wonderfully flexible, creative and sponge-like also makes me impulsive. Not necessarily reckless or negligent but more impulsive than I will be later in life.

Please stick with me.

So when you look at me like I have ten heads after I’ve done something “stupid” or failed to do something “smart,” you’re not really helping.

You adults respond to situations with your prefrontal cortex (rationally) but I am more inclined to respond with my amygdala (emotionally). And when you ask, “What were you thinking?” the answer is I wasn’t, at least not in the way you are.

You can blame me, or you can blame mother nature, but either way, it is what it is. At this point in my life, I get that you love me, but my friends are my everything.

Please understand that. Right now I choose my friends, but, don’t be fooled, I am watching you. Carefully.

Please stick with me.

Here’s what you can do for me

1. Model adulting.

I see all the behaviours that you are modeling and I hear all of the words you say. I may not listen but I do hear you. I seem impervious to your advice, like I’m wearing a Kevlar vest but your actions and words are penetrating. I promise. If you keep showing me the way, I will follow even if I detour many, many times before we reach our destination.

2. Let me figure things out for myself.

If you allow me to experience the consequences of my own actions I will learn from them. Please give me a little bit of leash and let me know that I can figure things out for myself. The more I do, the more confidence and resilience I will develop.

3. Tell me about you.

I want you to tell me all the stories of the crazy things you did as a teen, and what you learned from them. Then give me the space to do the same.

4. Help me with perspective.

Keep reminding me of the big picture. I will roll my eyes at you and make all kinds of grunt-like sounds. I will let you know in no uncertain terms that you can’t possibly understand any of what I’m going through. But I’m listening. I really am. It’s hard for me to see anything beyond the weeds that I am currently mired in. Help me scan out and focus on the long view. Remind me that this moment will pass.

5. Keep me safe.

Please remind me that drugs and driving don’t mix. Keep telling me that you will bail me out of any dangerous situation, no anger, no lectures, no questions asked. But also let me know over and over and over that you are there to listen, when I need you.

6. Be kind.

I will learn kindness from you and if you are relentless in your kindness to me, someday I will imitate that behaviour. Don’t ever mock me, please and don’t be cruel. Humour me-I think I know everything. You probably did as well at my age. Let it go.

7. Show interest in the things I enjoy.

Some days I will choose to share my interests with you, and it will make me feel good if you validate those interests, by at least acting interested.

One day when the haze of adolescence lifts, you will find a confident, strong, competent, kind adult where a surly teenager once stood. In the meantime, buckle in for the ride.

and..

Please stick with me.

Love,

Your Teenager

.....

By Helene Wingens

[livetoread]

36 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

One time, unprompted, he blurted out that the divorce is my fault and I was just mean to dad. To which I replied, “the divorce is not just one person’s fault.” Man you know it took all I had in me to calmly say that!!

I'm sure it did and good for you for doing it calmly. I just want to suggest again that when he shares something like that, focusing on the feelings behind what he is saying rather than the truth or lack thereof can be so helpful. So saying, "Yes, I can see how that would make you angry," or something like that lets him feel heard. He doesn't feel heard right now and once someone feels heard, they often soften in other ways. You can love bomb him all you want with texts etc, but if he doesn't feel heard, he doesn't feel understood and can't see you as safe. It's not agreeing with the facts of the situation saying stuff like that, it's acknowledging his feelings from his perspective.

[heartlikealion]

7 minutes ago, livetoread said:

I'm sure it did and good for you for doing it calmly. I just want to suggest again that when he shares something like that, focusing on the feelings behind what he is saying rather than the truth or lack thereof can be so helpful. So saying, "Yes, I can see how that would make you angry," or something like that lets him feel heard. He doesn't feel heard right now and once someone feels heard, they often soften in other ways. You can love bomb him all you want with texts etc, but if he doesn't feel heard, he doesn't feel understood and can't see you as safe. It's not agreeing with the facts of the situation saying stuff like that, it's acknowledging his feelings from his perspective.

See I’m not clever enough/comfortable enough? to know how to respond without sounding like I’m giving some sort of admission of guilt. I truly believe both adults played a part in our dynamic, yes, but I often can’t find the right words to respond to him. I’ll remember this. 

[heartlikealion]

13 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

The rest of you, lay off. If you've never been minced like this, you don't know what you're talking about.

Perhaps some people in this thread should watch the tv show MAID and the tv show Kevin Can F**k Himself. The second show deals with a financial dynamic I could relate to and the husband that outwardly never looks confrontational. Xh has that down pat. He usually keeps his composure even while being mean so I looked like a lunatic when I reacted by yelling. I’m sure that’s the type of thing ds saw. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by heartlikealion

[Rosie_0801]

3 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I have told myself while it’s nice when a child tries to comfort their parent or grandparent, it’s not a role reversal I think is super appropriate at their ages. I felt a lot of times the kids were worried about dad after MIL died. That’s not their job. And dd sent a letter to FIL comforting him. I think I’m the only one that found this strange… I shared with a girlfriend and she said it’s sweet. I don’t think I ever shared my thoughts with xh. There’s just a part of me that says no it’s not their burden to comfort the adults in their life. So maybe I have some emotional maturity. 

There's a line between kids comforting adults, which is appropriate because they are supposed to do human things like caring about the people in their lives, and adults emotionally dumping on kids about stuff they aren't equipped to cope with. We don't want to raise kids who react to their parent's parent dying with "Eh. Your problem, not mine," do we? !!

[maize]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

See I’m not clever enough/comfortable enough? to know how to respond without sounding like I’m giving some sort of admission of guilt. I truly believe both adults played a part in our dynamic, yes, but I often can’t find the right words to respond to him. I’ll remember this. 

Finding the right words is difficult, and I think everyone's knee-jerk reaction when someone says something we think is false--and especially something that makes us feel falsely criticized--is to try to correct the person.

This is where studying and practicing validation could help. Validation is about letting the other person feel heard and acknowledging their emotions. It doesn't have to mean agreeing with them. In a situation like the one you described, you might say something like "I can see how you would would feel really upset with me when it looks to you like your dad and I got divorced because I sometimes got angry." Depending on whether or not he seems up to a more in-depth discussion, you might be able to follow that up with "would you like to hear how things looked from my perspective?"--or you might just let it be. What you are trying to achieve above all is to just let him feel heard and understood.

I've been trying to do this for years, and I'm not good at it. I do believe it has the power to vastly improve relationships, so I think it is worth working on no matter how imperfectly. If you are up for another book recommendation this one has helped me understand validation:

https://smile.amazon.com/Power-Validation-Addiction-Out-Control/dp/1608820335/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?crid=3LC1T1V2DQKN9&keywords=validation&qid=1654869871&sprefix=validation%2Caps%2C182&sr=8-5

You always come across to me as having an earnest desire to do right by your kids. I'm glad to know you are also taking some time to do things to fill your own bucket.

Edited June 10, 2022 by maize

[Ann.without.an.e]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

See I’m not clever enough/comfortable enough? to know how to respond without sounding like I’m giving some sort of admission of guilt. I truly believe both adults played a part in our dynamic, yes, but I often can’t find the right words to respond to him. I’ll remember this. 

Don't be hard on yourself, everyone knows what to say when they aren't in the heat of the moment and often we even know how we should have handled something after the moment is gone. Having the right words in the raw of the moment, not so easy. I can tell you exactly how x, y, z should be handled but with emotions high, accusations thrown, in that exact moment, who knows how it will be handled. It takes practice not to react and even then, hard hard hard. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

10 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

There's a line between kids comforting adults, which is appropriate because they are supposed to do human things like caring about the people in their lives, and adults emotionally dumping on kids about stuff they aren't equipped to cope with. We don't want to raise kids who react to their parent's parent dying with "Eh. Your problem, not mine," do we? !!

Thank you for saying this ❤️ 

We hope to raise compassionate kids and if our kids love us, they will feel it when we are hurt. That is normal. There is a difference between that and us, as adults, leaning on our kids, dumping all of our struggles and worries and concerns onto our kids, and putting them in the place of being the emotional support for us. 

[vonfirmath]

Something that really helped for me, as I grew up -- my dad always acknowledged to me that they made mistakes raising us. He never delineated the mistakes (and it is entirely possible that what he is thinking of is different than what I would consider mistakes). But, he would go on, "We did the best we could"  And they did. I might have preferred my mom to homeschool me -- but looking back that would not have been a good role for her and I was probably better served in the public school system with my parents VERY actively involved.

 

I still regret NOT taking the computer programming course in order to be in higher level band (my dad's strong recommendation). But I don't blame him. He was, indeed, doing the best he could. And he was probably right to recommend Spanish instead of Latin. (in fact I did the same for my son. Living where we do High School Spanish really ought to be required for every kid capable of it who does not already converse in Spanish)

 

When I was a new parent, he told me that I ought to realize I'd make mistakes as a parent. The only perfect parent is God. All we can do is the best we can do with the situation we find ourselves in. (And the Bible certainly gives us a lot of historical evidence that even the Godly parents messed up with their kids big time. So parenting is no joke!)

 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by vonfirmath

[heartlikealion]

32 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

There's a line between kids comforting adults, which is appropriate because they are supposed to do human things like caring about the people in their lives, and adults emotionally dumping on kids about stuff they aren't equipped to cope with. We don't want to raise kids who react to their parent's parent dying with "Eh. Your problem, not mine," do we? !!

I’m still navigating this. My thoughts were influenced by the pathogenic parenting materials I read by Dr Childress. I can’t find the part I’m referencing online and I’ve given away my materials. 

[livetoread]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

See I’m not clever enough/comfortable enough? to know how to respond without sounding like I’m giving some sort of admission of guilt. I truly believe both adults played a part in our dynamic, yes, but I often can’t find the right words to respond to him. I’ll remember this. 

Yep. I'm aware of this mostly because I've blown it so many times with my own kids (now young adults) and still do. If you want to feel even better, I'm a trained mental health therapist and while it wasn't hard to do with my clients back when I was working, it all goes out the window when it's my kids. Sigh. We just keep trying.

[heartlikealion]

 

https://drcraigchildressblog.com/2016/07/15/i-am-not-your-warrior/amp/

I’ve done about half of this. I never thought about complaining to the (mental health) licensing board. But I did tell my lawyer if this book can’t help me, maybe it can help one of your other clients. 

 

Quote

The goal is to provoke a risk-management response throughout ALL of mental health, a system-wide change, in which ALL mental health professionals take responsibility for becoming professionally competent from their personal self-interest to AVOID a licensing board complaint (and possible malpractice lawsuit) if they continue to remain incompetent.

They can be incompetent, and they can remain incompetent, but from now on they do so at their own peril.

The licensing board may collude with allowing them to be incompetent, but we’re going to make the licensing board collude with professional incompetence over-and-over again until the licensing board eventually stands up and fulfills its responsibility by no longer colluding with professional incompetence and the blatant refusal by incompetent mental health professionals to assess for and diagnose child abuse when they are mandated reporters and have a “duty to protect.”

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by heartlikealion

[katilac]

On 6/10/2022 at 8:20 AM, heartlikealion said:

See I’m not clever enough/comfortable enough? to know how to respond without sounding like I’m giving some sort of admission of guilt. I truly believe both adults played a part in our dynamic, yes, but I often can’t find the right words to respond to him. I’ll remember this. 

I think your answer was fine and probably the best one you could give. It's true, and it's something he'll hear a lot in life in general (so he may eventually realize you were likely right).

For many other things, I would do my best to focus on his feelings and validate, but I personally think "The divorce was not one person's fault" is a good answer here. One, I do think that he would take any such statement as an admission of guilt. Two, and more importantly, the divorce is between you and dh and I don't think the hows and whys are an appropriate thing to discuss with your children. And three, because it bears repeating, it's true. 

[heartlikealion]

Ds will be dropped off Mon morning when dd is at VBS. I bought a frozen pizza and a coconut creme pie for him. He likes coconut (I can’t stand it). 

If he doesn’t like it I’ll just have to not show a negative reaction and tell myself well you’re making an effort and you’ll continue to do so and hopefully that is the take away.

[Jaybee]

4 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Ds will be dropped off Mon morning when dd is at VBS. I bought a frozen pizza and a coconut creme pie for him. He likes coconut (I can’t stand it). 

If he doesn’t like it I’ll just have to not show a negative reaction and tell myself well you’re making an effort and you’ll continue to do so and hopefully that is the take away.

That sounds like a good plan. But also, (and I have to tell myself this with my prickly person) try not to put too much hope into his showing a positive response. It's a long long series of showing love in the little ways, and trying not to be too hurt and defensive when they don't respond the way I hoped. One little thing at a time, just because I love them.

[heartlikealion]

6 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

That sounds like a good plan. But also, (and I have to tell myself this with my prickly person) try not to put too much hope into his showing a positive response. It's a long long series of showing love in the little ways, and trying not to be too hurt and defensive when they don't respond the way I hoped. One little thing at a time, just because I love them.

Yes I’ve been realizing that. And I watched part of the Superman & Lois show and when these teen boys got upset with their parents (don’t ask me why this show gave Superman children) I was like ok yeah I see it. This age sucks for everyone lol 

[Starr]

I"m so sorry. I don't know all the particulars but it sounds like he's doing the, "I'll show me." He sounds unhappy and is rejecting things that he likes. 😞

[freesia]

Also remember that because of the waterfall of emotions he is feeling, the food thing may be related to having a tense stomach with regard to the situation. I think of a boy who would never eat at my house bc he was nervous being away from his mother.  I’m not saying he’s nervous away from his dad, but he’s probably nervous about how things are going to go. Rejecting your food could also be more about verbally lashing out at you by rejecting your nurturing. What I would think he’s doing is testing you. Will she still love me no matter what I do? He may also know this is a way to hurt you as he has been hurt. That’s why it’s important to try to separate emotionally from the food issue. I predict there’s a high likelihood hood he will reject the pie. Be ok with that. It’s still the right way to go about things. He will remember you tried even if all his words lead you to think otherwise. 

[ktgrok]

9 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Yes I’ve been realizing that. And I watched part of the Superman & Lois show and when these teen boys got upset with their parents (don’t ask me why this show gave Superman children) I was like ok yeah I see it. This age sucks for everyone lol 

It does! They really are kind of jerks (okay, totally jerks) a lot of the time. 

Also, remember that anger and lashing out are often actually just sadness and fear. If he says something mean, maybe just say, "I'm sorry things are so hard for you" or "I know things this is all hard for you" and "I hate that things are so hard for you, you don't deserve all this", etc. 

Because I bet when he is saying, "you forgot my birthday" or whatever, what he means is "I'm hurting, and I'm scared because everything is different". But he's NOT going to ever actually say those words. or even acknowledge that is how he feels. But it probably is how he feels. 

[heartlikealion]

I’ve been thinking about the advice in this thread as I move forward — clean slates (but also keeping in mind if something upset him and how to not repeat it), anxiety/depression affecting stomach/appetite, and the toddler thing (lashing out from a young child). 

I did try to ask if he’d be interested in doing the smash it place with my friend’s son (similar age) but he said no and didn’t remember who the person was (they spoke in Dec at a museum event and when they were younger met up before). I pray he can make a close friend because it would be nice if he could invite someone over or I could drop him off somewhere with a friend. But I know we just gotta focus on the here and now. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by heartlikealion
friend’s son not son’s friend

[happi duck]

9 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Ds will be dropped off Mon morning when dd is at VBS. I bought a frozen pizza and a coconut creme pie for him. He likes coconut (I can’t stand it). 

If he doesn’t like it I’ll just have to not show a negative reaction and tell myself well you’re making an effort and you’ll continue to do so and hopefully that is the take away.

I think being prepared is a good thing!

This is for lunch correct?  Imo, give him lunch cheerfully but *not* in a "look what I got for you" sort of way.  If he rejects it be prepared to just be easy breezy about it "oh, okay.  It'll be on the counter if you change your mind.  There's also bagels and cream cheese if you want."

[heartlikealion]

Just now, happi duck said:

I think being prepared is a good thing!

This is for lunch correct?  Imo, give him lunch cheerfully but *not* in a "look what I got for you" sort of way.  If he rejects it be prepared to just be easy breezy about it "oh, okay.  It'll be on the counter if you change your mind.  There's also bagels and cream cheese if you want."

It’s for either lunch or dinner. I got him the turkey bologna product he likes which he might eat for lunch then I’ll heat up the pizza for dinner. He knows about the pizza because I asked if there was a certain brand he likes. His response, “I’m not picky.” Lol! But I didn’t get ahold of him til after I left the store. I have to go to the city today so I would be able to buy something else today if I needed. 

I don’t know if he’ll be here for dinner. He might request to return to dad’s Monday night. 

[happi duck]

Just my two cents: like others have said, he wants to know he's safe, even if he's acting like a jerk.  Also, perhaps, subconsciously trying to just make rejection happen because it might feel inevitable.  Divorce can make it seem so very possible that the people who love you will stop one day.

Sometimes, ime, doing something nice but pointing it out and wanting feedback can backfire.  Just do the nice thing without expectation of enthusiasm etc.

Many (hugs)

[maize]

You're doing great, Heart.

I hope the visit tomorrow goes well. I think it is worth doing whatever it takes to keep your own anxiety in check; kids pick up on parental anxiety as if they are highly-sensitive metal detectors and parental anxiety is a rusty nail in the ground. If you are able to just relax and enjoy the day he is far more likely to be able to relax himself.

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, happi duck said:

I think being prepared is a good thing!

This is for lunch correct?  Imo, give him lunch cheerfully but *not* in a "look what I got for you" sort of way.  If he rejects it be prepared to just be easy breezy about it "oh, okay.  It'll be on the counter if you change your mind.  There's also bagels and cream cheese if you want."

Yes! And you can also let him bring the leftover coconut cream pie back with him to his dad’s house. You may not realize it, but he will probably think of you when he’s eating it over there.

[heartlikealion]

I plan to sign up for a trial of Paramount Plus because I think you can watch the newer seasons of Young Sheldon on it and we were both disappointed that HBO Max only has seasons 1-4 of it. 

[fairfarmhand]

One thing to remember is that your ds is likely being fed a constant stream of negativity about you. If he’s always hearing “mom is the reason for x, y and z” and “she’s only faking that she likes you” etc, no wonder he’s tense at your house. Every nice thing you do he may be second guessing. Your job is to be positive and kind and help him figure out what the truth is—-moms not perfect but she does love him deeply and is trying so hard to show that love. 
 

just try to remember what he’s likely hearing and try it have compassion for the impossible situation he has to try to navigate 

Edited June 12, 2022 by fairfarmhand