High School Literature, need recommendations

[Tracy]

Literature is my weakest subject, so I am hoping for some ideas from the hive.

A couple of years ago, I opted to put my oldest in an online lit class, thinking that was a better option than me trying to teach it. But it was a horrible experience. They met once a week for a discussion and were expected to read books like Dante's Inferno or Beowulf in their entirety by themselves in the intervening week. It was way too much reading for the level of reading they were doing and there was no support at all.

Now I have to find a literature class for my younger. I am considering two possibilities.
1. Find a more suitable online course.

2. Piece together a curriculum. I think it would be great to be able to purchase a separate curriculum for each book we choose. 

I am looking for suggestions for resources in either category, either online classes, or resources that would allow me to piece together the course of our choice. 

Thank you!

[freesia]

For the do it yourself option, what I do for the middle school book club I lead is use questions from Teaching the Classics plus I google the book and pick my favorite questions I find. There are also essay questions online for most popular books if you want them. It’s really easy.  If I did that for high school I would probably focus one month more on characters and talk about types of characterization ( not instead of other questions just make sure I cover it and ask questions), a month on setting and mood, the hero’s journey, types of conflict, etc. 

[cintinative]

We have really liked House of Humane Letters lit classes. They go MUCH slower than what you are describing (that sounds awful, honestly) and take the time to really explain the books.  My caveat is that you need to look at it more like a lecture class than a discussion class. There is discussion, but sometimes people think it should be primarily that, and it is not, it is primarily teaching.   That said, I have watched every lecture for three classes (ancient, medieval and early modern) and they have been so good. 

Also, you could do Freesia's method.  Center for Lit also has individual book discussions you can purchase (on video) https://www.centerforlit.com/mixnmatch  and they have full programs you can purchase  https://www.centerforlit.com/the-centerforlit-academy-library.  I have not used those unfortunately. One question I would ask is if they incorporate discussion as you go along, or if they are just "wrap up" type videos.  The Classics Club videos I used by Center for Lit were the latter, which was fine, because the books we used it for were not really challenging. But if I was going to tackle Beowulf or Sir Gawain and the Green Knight or Paradise Lost, I want something that provides input as I move through the book.  

I can say to avoid Omnibus.  Can you PM me the provider for the class you are describing? I have an idea, but I might be wrong. In any event, I want to make sure to avoid it.

[Tracy]

@cintinativeI think that the House of Humane Letters looks like exactly what I am looking for. Can you tell me a bit more about it? Are they live lectures? How often are they done? Is there any kind of textbook or resource materials? 

[Farrar]

If you want something that's a lot lighter and more modern, Blue Tent is running two book discussion classes. One is speculative fiction and the other is a book club. They're not going to be like Blue Tent's more intensive English sequence. I think they're a good option to pair with writing at home or outsourced elsewhere for a family that wants something that's more modern, more appealing, more about learning to like literature.

[royspeed]

18 hours ago, Tracy said:

A couple of years ago, I opted to put my oldest in an online lit class, thinking that was a better option than me trying to teach it. But it was a horrible experience. They met once a week for a discussion and were expected to read books like Dante's Inferno or Beowulf in their entirety by themselves in the intervening week. It was way too much reading

I consider such approaches criminal — and I fault AP courses for doing this sort of thing, i.e., large quantities of reading, little to no live discussion, little to no substantive analysis.

Part of what makes these approaches criminal is that, for many students, these high-school-level experiences may prove their last bite at the literature apple. Many STEM students, for instance, may find that during their college years the requirements for their engineering degree (or whatever) are so exacting that they're left with very few electives. Besides, the teaching of literature at the university level is now so poor (think deconstruction) that enrollment in such courses has for many years been in steady decline. (See Gary Saul Morson's "Why students are avoiding study of literature.")

I think it's our job as parents to ensure that our students fall in love with literature. — Yes, many of our students will pursue the sciences, and that's fine; they should nonetheless understand what's astounding about Shakespeare and what makes reading Jane Austen imperative. And that will happen only if our students take literature courses in which great works are well taught. Here's the key thing, in my view, to look for:

In a good literature course, the teacher understands several things:

• that he or she has a primary duty toward literature, and that duty has nothing to do with a test score;
• that every great novel or play is, first & foremost, an experience that has been designed & crafted by an artist;
• that with literature, the work of art is not the words on the page but what happens in our hearts and minds as we read — that experience;
• that it is the teacher's duty to enable the student to have that experience.

A great literature course, accordingly, will equip the student with the necessary literary background and whatever historical information is vital to the student's ability to re-create in his or her mind & heart the experience intended by the writer. The teacher must also invest time and energy in close reading with the student, discussing the details, enabling the student to unlock the experience inside each work.

Best of luck to you, Tracy.

[cintinative]

1 hour ago, Tracy said:

@cintinativeI think that the House of Humane Letters looks like exactly what I am looking for. Can you tell me a bit more about it? Are they live lectures? How often are they done? Is there any kind of textbook or resource materials? 

They do have live lectures, assuming the classes are not full.  If the classes are full, you can watch recordings.

These are the most laid back classes we have ever taken. Each week there is a reading assignment which is totally doable for even the pokiest of readers.  Before each book the teacher explains the historical context, a bit about the author, and the ideas and beliefs of that time period that are reflected in the work. As the class moves through the work, the teacher explains various symbols in the work and any difficult passages. She makes sure the class understands what is going on, any deeper meanings present, etc.  Sometimes she will pull in commentaries by Lewis or others.  The class is always able to ask questions about what confuses them or make comments on things she is bringing up.  At the end of the semester, there is a midterm paper, which is a short paper that relates to the works they have read. For Mr. Banks, it was a paper on the historical importance of one of the authors we read.  It's really not a big deal. That is the only graded assignment you get, and there is no grade for "participation" or anything like that.  Mr. Banks is a bit more formal in his teaching style. In the ancients class he spent a good amount of time reading from the works themselves and discussing them.  That class was smaller (maybe 10 students?), whereas Ms. Stanford's classes tend to be large (more than 40 in one class).  I have an email from her that discusses why she uses this approach (lecture versus all discussion).  They both seem to have good rapport with the students.

There is no textbook--just the works themselves.  We have not done the history classes but I would think it would be similar in format and output. Mr. Banks teaches those.

It's kind of hard to not get caught up in the lack of "output" for this class but an engaged student will learn a LOT.  And, many of her students are repeat students who have been with her since middle school, so they clearly love her teaching. 

[Tracy]

@cintinativeThat sounds almost perfect. I would have liked to have a graded course. But I suppose that I can have him write a paper for each book. But I really really love the idea of going through each book very slowly. 

Do they read the entire books, or are they only given excerpts to read?

[cintinative]

9 minutes ago, Tracy said:

@cintinativeThat sounds almost perfect. I would have liked to have a graded course. But I suppose that I can have him write a paper for each book. But I really really love the idea of going through each book very slowly. 

Do they read the entire books, or are they only given excerpts to read?

I would say for most we read the whole thing, but we did skip some sections of the Aeneid and Metamorphoses due to content (we were allowed to read them, but they didn't require it) and we didn't read all of the Canterbury Tales.  I can't remember anything else we skipped section for.

[MJmom]

You both might want to read How to Read Literature Like a Professor. It teaches you the basics of literary analysis.
 

For study guides for specific books, Glencoe has a fair amount of good free guides, but they are set to go offline at the end of June, so download them now if you want any. 

[CAtoVA]

9 hours ago, royspeed said:

I consider such approaches criminal — and I fault AP courses for doing this sort of thing, i.e., large quantities of reading, little to no live discussion, little to no substantive analysis.

Part of what makes these approaches criminal is that, for many students, these high-school-level experiences may prove their last bite at the literature apple. Many STEM students, for instance, may find that during their college years the requirements for their engineering degree (or whatever) are so exacting that they're left with very few electives. Besides, the teaching of literature at the university level is now so poor (think deconstruction) that enrollment in such courses has for many years been in steady decline. (See Gary Saul Morson's "Why students are avoiding study of literature.")

I think it's our job as parents to ensure that our students fall in love with literature. — Yes, many of our students will pursue the sciences, and that's fine; they should nonetheless understand what's astounding about Shakespeare and what makes reading Jane Austen imperative. And that will happen only if our students take literature courses in which great works are well taught. Here's the key thing, in my view, to look for:

In a good literature course, the teacher understands several things:

• that he or she has a primary duty toward literature, and that duty has nothing to do with a test score;
• that every great novel or play is, first & foremost, an experience that has been designed & crafted by an artist;
• that with literature, the work of art is not the words on the page but what happens in our hearts and minds as we read — that experience;
• that it is the teacher's duty to enable the student to have that experience.

A great literature course, accordingly, will equip the student with the necessary literary background and whatever historical information is vital to the student's ability to re-create in his or her mind & heart the experience intended by the writer. The teacher must also invest time and energy in close reading with the student, discussing the details, enabling the student to unlock the experience inside each work.

Best of luck to you, Tracy.

I totally agree; thank you for saying this!!!!!!

[mlktwins]

Lantern English has literature classes.  My boys have only taken one .25 credit high school class there (we did the rest at home), but the workload was manageable and they learned from it and stretched their wings a bit.  My boys love to read, but they don't enjoy literature as a school subject -- LOL.  You could even try one this summer to see how it goes.  Their registration closes soon though as classes start the week of June 12th.  https://www.lanternenglish.com/writingclasses

ETA:  Just wanted to clarify.  My boys have taken 6 of their high school writing courses in the past 1.5 years, with one more this summer.  They have only taken one lit class.  I wish I'd started them there before 10th grade. 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by mlktwins

[Bocky]

If you end up needing to do it yourself, Memoria Press has literature courses with excellent teacher's guides, with answers for all the questions, including discussion questions. We used their The Divine Comedy course for literature this past year in 12th grade. The teachers guide had everything - even lecture notes for introducing and contextualizing Dante. The rubric for writing essays was very clear for both my student and myself.  Hewitt's Lightning Literature guides also cover their chosen literature thoroughly with good teacher helps. Both Memoria Press and Lightning Literature have a range of different works or periods to choose from, and are the closest to actually being open and go I have found.

[Dianthus]

On 5/30/2022 at 2:54 PM, cintinative said:

I can say to avoid Omnibus.  

Why?

[cintinative]

9 hours ago, Dianthus said:

Why?

Responded to your PM

[hina]

On 7/8/2022 at 5:34 AM, cintinative said:

Responded to your PM

I also PMed you with a similar question. Would love any further insight on this! TIA!