Shooting at a Texas elementary school

[Murphy101]

This is what prolife and Catholic really are:

Article from The Pillar

I adore that the Bishop’s twitter user name is Friend of Frodo.

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, bookbard said:

Australian Federal Police now pushing for a better national firearms database following this tragedy - hopefully this is able to occur. We still do have shootings, and it is almost always either organised crime gangs shooting each other, or men killing women and children in their families. 

Australian police renew calls for national firearms database following mass shootings in the US | Gun control | The Guardian

I do like the idea but they need to do a way better job of data protection than they do at the moment. Otherwise it becomes a handy guide for criminals.

[Dmmetler]

I will also say this. I have had  the honor of working alongside a bunch of retired military folks who came into teaching under the Troops for Teachers program when branches were being closed left and right in the 1990’s, because we came into the career at the same time. I have not seen a single military veteran teacher who is in favor of teachers carrying in the classroom. Not one. Not when Columbine had just happened, not yesterday, not today. And these are the folks who, if anyone COULD handle such a situation, would be best capable of doing so. 
 

 

[Ausmumof3]

54 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I have been in multiple planning meetings for teacher at various things next fall.

Twice the topic of “safety” has come up. And someone mentioned arming teachers.

No. I won’t do it. And I won’t work with a teacher who does either.

Is it not enough that I’d take a bullet for your kid? Must I put a bullet in someone else too?

Because I won’t.

And this shooter had just turned 18.  A legal adult I know.  But just a kid too.  Who here doesn’t see an 18 year old and think they are just kids?  Yes.  Adults too.  But so very much still a kid at the same time.

Do we really want to have teachers that would be okay shooting a teen?

Again. Is it not enough I wouldn’t even have to think about taking a bullet for your kid? You want me to be willing to shoot some other messed up kid for them too?  Justified or not - I don’t want to be the teacher who does that.

And according to that article I posted earlier apparently even when teachers do carry guns, teachers aren’t safe at it even when there isn’t a shooter. So no thanks. 

Yes. I think most people wouldn’t be happy to engage in that situation until the shooter had actually already killed someone. Shooters will simply plan to kill the teachers first I guess.  Fear of being shot isn’t going to stop them - they are already way past that stage when they decide to do something like that.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[Katy]

The thing about arming teachers is, even if there are good teachers who are also capable of killing kids… And I doubt it, so few humans are capable of shooting other humans even if they’re getting shot at, that’s why they instituted basic training in the military to brainwash the ability into soldiers. So even if we were capable of doing so successfully in that context there’s still the huge problem and expense of how much ammunition and constant training it takes to keep the muscle memory to shoot accurately under high stress. Even most cops do not keep that skill honed. It’s a completely unreasonable expectation of teachers. 

[DoraBora]

nm

Edited May 26, 2022 by DoraBora

[bookbard]

Honestly, I think all teachers should stop working until something happens. It would cause a great deal of disruption and you'd think even the most stubborn politician would have to do something about it. 

[Dmmetler]

9 minutes ago, bookbard said:

Honestly, I think all teachers should stop working until something happens. It would cause a great deal of disruption and you'd think even the most stubborn politician would have to do something about it. 

Part of the problem is that it wouldn’t. Most schools are in their last weeks of the year here-few go byond mid June, and many schools are already done for the year by May 30 (Memorial Day)And by August, there will be other things in the news. If it were October, maybe, but in late May, they literally could wait us out. 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Dmmetler

[Faith-manor]

I don't know that a national strike is needed. My guess is this is going to cause another mass wave of retirement and teachers leaving the profession. It is an employee market at present, and many can do better with employment elsewhere. Sub pay here is only $90 a day. Arrive at 7:30, only half hour lunch, leave at 4 pm. I can do better at Taco Bell which is why no one is lining up to sub even though they are desperately needed. I don't see that changing. Maybe if the gunslingers, ammosexuals, and 2E obsessed narcissists have no where to send their kids to school in the fall, they might decide to be reasonable. Maybe. Not likely.

[KSera]

20 minutes ago, bookbard said:

Honestly, I think all teachers should stop working until something happens. It would cause a great deal of disruption and you'd think even the most stubborn politician would have to do something about it. 

This was my thought yesterday, but it's true it would have to stretch into next Fall to have any effect.I've been trying to think of how to hit financially to make a change. What kind of boycotts might make a difference? All I can think of is for people to refuse to travel to states with terrible regulation, but that doesn't do anything nationally. Any other ideas?

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

. I thought they were waiting for SWAT (wrong decision). But are you saying SWAT was there and STILL didn't go in?!?!?! WTF? Tell me I have that wrong.

My understanding from piecing together articles is that the TOWN SWAT TEAM stayed outside and waited.  The shooter was taken down by a BORDER PATROL Tactical unit.   

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Heartstrings

[Katy]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

 

Ok, wait. I thought they were waiting for SWAT (wrong decision). But are you saying SWAT was there and STILL didn't go in?!?!?! WTF? Tell me I have that wrong. please. 

Unfortunately I don’t think you have that wrong. DH said he saw an FBI interview that suggested this tragedy will be studied for decades as a lesson in what NOT to do. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

For whatever it’s worth, my LEO and SWAT friends are confused about why the police didn’t go in.  I called them to make sure the plan here, at my kid’s schools, involves going in.

Then my kids tell me they’re instructed to hide en masse in a corner.  Each classroom has an easily opened safety window as a fire escape and these are one story buildings. I have no idea why they aren’t instructing kids to get out of the building.  We told our children to open the safety window and run as far away from the school as they can.  My SIL is two blocks from my younger kid’s schools and we told them to go there.  My oldest’s school is within walking distance of one of our ambulance stations so that’s where we told him to go.  

I hate that we even have to have this discussion. 
 

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

For whatever it’s worth, my LEO and SWAT friends are confused about why the police didn’t go in.  I called them to make sure the plan here, at my kid’s schools, involves going in.

Then my kids tell me they’re instructed to hide en masse in a corner.  Each classroom has an easily opened safety window as a fire escape and these are one story buildings. I have no idea why they aren’t instructing kids to get out of the building.  We told our children to open the safety window and run as far away from the school as they can.  My SIL is two blocks from my younger kid’s schools and we told them to go there.  My oldest’s school is within walking distance of one of our ambulance stations so that’s where we told him to go.  

I hate that we even have to have this discussion. 
 

Yeah, that reasoning was upthread. It came from California schools dealing with gang violence & drive by shootings outside. It is terrible advice for children being shot by someone inside. 

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Yeah, that reasoning was upthread. It came from California schools dealing with gang violence & drive by shootings outside. It is terrible advice for children being shot by someone inside. 

Right. Another "one size fits all policy" that got a lot of people killed. 

Tiggy, I cannot imagine having to have that conversation with my kids! Props to you for managing it. ❤❤❤

I just want to go hug my grandboys, but the holiday weekend is going to be insane here, and it isn't a good time to travel.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Faith-manor

[KSera]

37 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Then my kids tell me they’re instructed to hide en masse in a corner.

This is essentially what a teacher friend told me today. The kids are supposed to hide and be quiet. In a one story building with several exits, including windows that open all the way down to almost floor level. Makes no sense. That instruction needs to change.

[Idalou]

https://twitter.com/SteveSchmidtSES/status/1529980467474157569?t=xHVBwHRK0_h0UMNhH41EPQ&s=19

This is a pic from the maker of the AR 15s that the killer bought on his birthday

Edited May 27, 2022 by Idalou

[bookbard]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

This was my thought yesterday, but it's true it would have to stretch into next Fall to have any effect

Right, I forgot you're at the end of the school year fairly soon. 

I was having an 'if I was the President' moment . . .

a) add 3 more left-leaning women to the Supreme court  (yes, that may have issues down the track, I know).

b) Draft a legally tight thingy that's based on the 'well-regulated militia' thing, that says there must be NO private gun ownership. They all have to be part of a gun club (this is mostly how it works in Australia, bar remote farmers. I get that's an issue). Your gun lives at the club and is signed out at the club.

c) Gun clubs have regular inspections to ensure only members are people in good standing over 21. The inspectors are an independent team who have all been affected by gun violence themselves so hopefully can't be bought. Oh, and slowly reduce the number and type of guns these clubs are allowed to have. And body armour. Eventually bring in guns that have the fingerprinty things.

Yes, bad people will still find and use guns. But it would reduce accidents, suicides, and some impetuous acts.

 

 

[chiguirre]

3 hours ago, Lovinglife123 said:

  Didn’t happen in Buffalo, Everyone hid.  Teachers.. never.

That's not true. The store security guard engaged the shooter and was killed.

Aaron Salter. Say his name!

[Melissa in Australia]

49 minutes ago, bookbard said:

 

b) Draft a legally tight thingy that's based on the 'well-regulated militia' thing, that says there must be NO private gun ownership. They all have to be part of a gun club (this is mostly how it works in Australia, bar remote farmers. I get that's an issue). Your gun lives at the club and is signed out at the club.

 

 

 

This isn't completely correct. It might be for hand guns, but long arms you can be a member of the hunting association and have the hunting permits, licences etc and store your long arms at your house in a gunsafe. 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Melissa in Australia
My phone keeps changing words

[Dmmetler]

5 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

This isn't completely correct. It might be for hand guns, but long arms you can be a member of the hunting association and have the hunting permits, licences etc and store your long arms at your house in a gunsafe. 

 

And I’d be Ok with that. Hunters, farmers, ranchers, etc IME, even in the USA, tend to take guns seriously. 

[Corraleno]

Small Coffins
by Kaitlin Shetler, 5/25/22

suzie gave her teacher apples

and billy gave her gum

and jason, leigh, and rachel

painted flowers with their thumbs

 

penny wore a red bow

michael drew a cat

and luke chased crickets

by the stream

while making paper hats

 

a b c d

listen for the bell

e f then g

it’s time to go to hell

 

miss mary mack

mack mack

all dressed in black

black black

with silver bullets

bullets bullets

all down her back

back back

 

my momma told me

to pick the very best gun

and you

are

it

 

tag another child

dig another grave

bow your head

and tremble

for prayers that never save

 

send your kids to school

send your kids to heaven

turn your eyes away

from shooting ninety-seven

 

bury outrage

buy more votes

mock their parents

cut their throats

 

control your women

not your guns

kill your first graders

indulge your sons

 

buy them rifles

buy them bombs

cry fake tears

for grieving moms

 

suzie’s red like apples

penny’s red like bows

freedom comes at such a cost

small coffins laid in rows

 

 

[mommyoffive]

A lot of info has changed

How the official accounts about the Uvalde shooting have changed (msn.com)

[Katy]

I am so angry and hurt. This is as bad as realizing I couldn’t trust any of the people I know from church because they care more about their right to not be minorly inconvenienced by wearing a mask in order to save a million lives. 

I seriously thought that the Republican legislators I know were decent people who just thought about things differently than me. But to find out that all these other countries have solved this with better background checks but they still have guns? Make the process 3-6 weeks instead of 3 days? That means for the lack of a minor inconvenience these people who claim to be pro-life are trading the lives of children for campaign donations so that Americans will believe the lie that people are coming for their guns and they will buy more of them. I think the first time I heard that I was 4, 5, or 6. I understand normal people believing the propaganda but Senators? These people have full time staffs, some of whom have public policy graduate degrees. They are well aware that propaganda is a full-out lie and they don’t care. It’s revolting. 

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

This is essentially what a teacher friend told me today. The kids are supposed to hide and be quiet. In a one story building with several exits, including windows that open all the way down to almost floor level. Makes no sense. That instruction needs to change.

As a teacher, I've practiced hiding and being quiet, because that's something that actually can safely be practiced, and that needs practice for the kids to figure out how to transition, and because there are definitely cases where it's the safest choice.

That doesn't mean that we aren't also having conversations about other strategies, like lifting kids out windows and telling them to run.  But there's really no way that you can justify practicing running off campus as fast as you can, because more kids would get hit by cars or lost or whatever than it would save.  So, we all think about it, and plan for it, and figure out how it might work, but we're not going to actually smash windows and risk getting cut and tell kids to practice running towards traffic.   That doesn't mean that we wouldn't do that, and haven't planned how to do that, if we needed to.

I would also maintain that in most cases, younger students, or kids like the ones I teach are safest having an adult make a judgement of the situation, and following their directions.  Because what's safest in one situation, isn't always safest in another.   I taught in a city that's had snipers firing at kids on the playground, and through windows of the school, and gang related shootings virtually on the doorsteps of schools.  So, sometimes, moving away from windows, getting down low and being silent is what makes sense.  Plus we gather in the same way (away from windows, in a group) before we move for tornado warnings and other things too.

After Stoneman Douglas, our fire drill plans changed so that the kids lined up at a closed door, and an adult peered out, surveyed the scene, and then decided if evacuating through the hallway is what actually makes sense.  

After Sandy Hook many schools changed things so that instead of using codes (we had separate codes for "the intruder is a student" so lock everyone out and "the intruder is a stranger" so open your door long enough to snatch any kid in a school uniform and pull them inside), the policy is that whatever adult can get to a phone and has information accesses the loud speaker and says things like "there is a gun man in the hallway by room 123" so that teachers can make informed decisions. 

[Happy2BaMom]

The problem is not that teachers are not armed.

The problem is that the US has allowed so many hideously ugly problems & attitudes to multiply to the point where now a number of our leaders (& populace) believe that teachers actively shooting guns in their classrooms is the solution.

If that doesn't define a failed (or failing) society, I don't know what does.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Happy2BaMom

[Happy2BaMom]

And if my spouse was a teacher, I'd be so pissed right now that I'd be tempted to want him armed, so I do have empathy for the poster above.

However, the risk that he might kill a child in a shoot-out wouldn't even be worth his self-defense, not to him. He wouldn't want to live after something like that. And it could so easily happen. 

That we are even talking about a f*cking public school teacher having to make such choices is...beyond insane.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Happy2BaMom

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

And if my spouse was a teacher, I'd be so pissed right now that I'd be tempted to want him armed, so I do have empathy for the poster above.

However, the risk that he might kill a child in a shoot-out wouldn't even be worth his self-defense, not to him. He wouldn't want to live after something like that. And it could so easily happen. 

That we are even talking about a f*cking public school teacher having to make such choices is...beyond insane.

Maybe if military skills are required to be a teacher the military need to run the schools 😞 I’m sorry things are the way they are. 

 

[KSera]

45 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

That doesn't mean that we aren't also having conversations about other strategies, like lifting kids out windows and telling them to run.  But there's really no way that you can justify practicing running off campus as fast as you can, because more kids would get hit by cars or lost or whatever than it would save.  So, we all think about it, and plan for it, and figure out how it might work, but we're not going to actually smash windows and risk getting cut and tell kids to practice running towards traffic.   That doesn't mean that we wouldn't do that, and haven't planned how to do that, if we needed to.

I would also maintain that in most cases, younger students, or kids like the ones I teach are safest having an adult make a judgement of the situation, and following their directions.  Because what's safest in one situation, isn't always safest in another.   I taught in a city that's had snipers firing at kids on the playground, and through windows of the school, and gang related shootings virtually on the doorsteps of schools.  So, sometimes, moving away from windows, getting down low and being silent is what makes sense.  Plus we gather in the same way (away from windows, in a group) before we move for tornado warnings and other things too.

 

I totally agree with having adults make the judgement and kids following is the best principle. I'm not in favor of having kids even practice. I think it's too traumatizing and not worth it in the end. They should just know that in an emergency they need to follow teacher's instructions. That said, in the case I was talking about, she wasn't talking about just what they practice but that that is their only plan. I said I would be getting them out the window and running in that situation and she said that wouldn't work for young children. I would do it even with young children. Better a five year old has a chance at running to safety than to leave them sitting quietly hoping they don't get hit by a bullet 😢.

[Faith-manor]

39 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

The problem is not that teachers are not armed.

The problem is that the US has allowed so many hideously ugly problems & attitudes to multiply to the point where now a number of our leaders (& populace) truly believe that teachers actively shooting guns in their classrooms is the solution.

If that doesn't define a failed (or failing) society, I don't know what does.

I think we need to be honest. We are a failed state.

[Elona]

54 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I think we need to be honest. We are a failed state.

This is the conclusion I am coming to. As long as corporate/lobbyist/dark money runs our elections, it is broken.

Maybe if we had mandatory voting we could change things. But I don't know how we get it with so much corruption in our way.

[Grace Hopper]

Just now, Elona said:

This is the conclusion I am coming to. As long as corporate/lobbyist/dark money runs our elections, it is broken.

Maybe if we had mandatory voting we could change things. But I don't know how we get it with so much corruption in our way.

Term limits. We need term limits. 

[felicity]

7 hours ago, Lovinglife123 said:

I just think at this point.. after so many of these, as part of being a teacher they should be trained and armed… just part of their everyday job.  They go through so much school and training already, background checks etc.  I wish my DH could carry a gun to school.  Instead 18 year olds can carry machine guns into the schools, but teachers can’t protect their students?  I’m all for getting rid of military weapons from civilians too, but why not have every teacher a “security officer” too.  In every school shooting the teachers step in and give their lives to try and save the kids already.  

I know I'm not on here a lot and rarely post in anything meaningful, but while I used to homeschool, I am currently a middle school teacher.

If I was expected to carry a gun and potentially shoot someone and that was part of the job description of a teacher, I would quit in a heartbeat. I decided to become a teacher because I like kids, I like science, I like school supplies (to be a bit flippant), and most importantly, I wanted to be the person I needed when I was that age. 

There is no way I would ever have a gun in my classroom. It's a disaster waiting to happen. For one thing, children and guns don't mix. For another I am not a tall, strong person. If a student wanted the gun, they would be able to overpower me for it. Imagine a kindergartner doing centers and finding a gun. No. We are far more likely to be harmed by it than to save anyone. 

Last thing, I promise. Teachers are leaving the profession in droves. It's a really, really difficult job and I know I'm in the wrong place to talk about that. I'm also really good at it (I have actual evidence if you want it.) I love what I do but I am wiped out every single day. Now though, my own kids (that go to schools) are hearing about what heroes the teachers in that room were. And they were. They sacrificed themselves for the children under their care. But, my own kids carry that with them every day. They would so much rather me come home to them than be a hero. I can see leaving. How else would I protect them from that threat to their mother? 

Anyway, thanks for reading this. I'm a little emotional righ now and hope it's okay that I intruded in the conversation. 

[Murphy101]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

A lot of info has changed

How the official accounts about the Uvalde shooting have changed (msn.com)

Welp. Apparently we all know nothing at this point until TPTB figure out what Happened themselves I guess.  

A prime example of why it’d be a lot better if everyone just shut up and did their jobs before talking to press.

I can’t believe there isn’t ANY surveillance cameras at all to set up basic timeline facts.  Not at the school entrance? On the cops or their cars? None of the neighbors with homes across from the school had a single Ring doorbell or cam flood light or anything?  If nothing else - no one in that classroom or at the school in general thought to use their cellphone?  It might take a lot of time to sort through all that but I can’t believe it doesn’t exist.

They announced a couple hours ago that the widower of one of the murdered teachers died of a heart attack today. Leaves behind 4 already devastated kids. 2 in college. One in high school and one in middle school.

[Grace Hopper]

Our kids have had to do active shooter drills for so long now, guess what? The shooters themselves have gone through it. They know where the kids are taught to hide. 
 

[Murphy101]

3 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Our kids have had to do active shooter drills for so long now, guess what? The shooters themselves have gone through it. They know where the kids are taught to hide. 
 

Right? I’m like quit even talking about this dumb crap. It doesn’t work. It’s CYA school insurance do nothing policy.

One thing will work.

Gun regulation. Quit talking about anything else. Anything else is distraction.

Nothing else matters. It doesn’t matters if the kids hid or not. It doesn’t matter if the door was titanium or the entrance buzzer had a metal detector.  It doesn’t matter if some 4th grade teacher mighta coulda shot an aggressive 18 year old before he shot her.  It doesn’t even matter if the LEO screwed it up. It doesn’t matter if some dad first thought about his kid (even if he happened to also be a cop - and I sure hope that isn’t true bc the community will go up in flames of self-implosion if they find out, which might be the goal of spreading such a claim)

ONE thing would have made this a lot less likely from happening. Gun regulation.

Come on, people. Stay focused.  Everything else is smoke and mirror distraction from gun regulation. 

[rebcoola]

Agree Murphy. In all likelihood this kid would have just shot up somewhere else if the school had been protected.  Honestly at this point when these shootings happen it feels like rape cases what could the victim have done better so this wouldn't happen to them. It is ridiculous!!

[bookbard]

4 hours ago, rebcoola said:

Honestly at this point when these shootings happen it feels like rape cases what could the victim have done better so this wouldn't happen to them. It is ridiculous!!

Absolutely. I totally agree with this conclusion. 

[Eos]

nm, it's not enough.  

Edited May 27, 2022 by Eos

[Carrie12345]

20 hours ago, mathnerd said:

These LE were neither trained nor willing to go in after the shooter.

I’m a few pages behind, so this may have already been said but,

How in the world is it that we train our children and school staff to handle school shootings, but not our law enforcement officers?

[Ting Tang]

Has anyone read an article that discusses an interview with this teenager’s father? If you can even try to fathom what kind of evil it takes to murder children in the way he did, the article was pretty revealing.  If there was a recipe to create a human who would commit such a horrific act, this “family” certainly followed it.  I’ll use that term loosely based on what I read. We can reinstate bans and pass laws that would address the means by which many of these school shootings are carried out, if enforced. There is definitely blame to go around. This teen was barely an adult. 

[Innisfree]

5 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Has anyone read an article that discusses an interview with this teenager’s father?

Can you link the article?

[Ting Tang]

 

7 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

Can you link the article?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/father-of-uvalde-shooter-salvador-ramos-says-he-shouldve-just-killed-me?via=twitter_page

[Ting Tang]

6 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

Right? I’m like quit even talking about this dumb crap. It doesn’t work. It’s CYA school insurance do nothing policy.

One thing will work.

Gun regulation. Quit talking about anything else. Anything else is distraction.

Nothing else matters. It doesn’t matters if the kids hid or not. It doesn’t matter if the door was titanium or the entrance buzzer had a metal detector.  It doesn’t matter if some 4th grade teacher mighta coulda shot an aggressive 18 year old before he shot her.  It doesn’t even matter if the LEO screwed it up. It doesn’t matter if some dad first thought about his kid (even if he happened to also be a cop - and I sure hope that isn’t true bc the community will go up in flames of self-implosion if they find out, which might be the goal of spreading such a claim)

ONE thing would have made this a lot less likely from happening. Gun regulation.

Come on, people. Stay focused.  Everything else is smoke and mirror distraction from gun regulation. 

Obviously the drills are not working. They add trauma. My son’s TKD instructor is a public school teacher. She’s a black belt. She said if students knew there was a gun in the classroom, a risk would be kids charging the teacher. She said teachers regularly speak about leaving the profession. I’ll add, arming teachers is not the answer, obviously. Prevention is. Not reaction. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Heartstrings]

6 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

.  It doesn’t even matter if the LEO screwed it up. It doesn’t matter if some dad first thought about his kid (even if he happened to also be a cop - and I sure hope that isn’t true bc the community will go up in flames of self-implosion if they find out, which might be the goal of spreading such a claim)

It wasn’t one, it was several.  There’s  video of one of the officers being asked about it.   It’s at 1:34
 

Vanessa Croix: We’ve heard that some law enforcement officers actually went into [the] school to get their kids out. Can you talk about that?

Lt. Christopher Olivarez: Right, so what we do know Vanessa right now that there was some police officers and families trying to get their children out of the school because it was an active shooter situation right now.  
 

 

it could still be false.  But it’s not a baseless rumor.   

 

[Ting Tang]

20 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

It wasn’t one, it was several.  There’s  video of one of the officers being asked about it.   It’s at 1:34
 

Vanessa Croix: We’ve heard that some law enforcement officers actually went into [the] school to get their kids out. Can you talk about that?

Lt. Christopher Olivarez: Right, so what we do know Vanessa right now that there was some police officers and families trying to get their children out of the school because it was an active shooter situation right now.  
 

 

it could still be false.  But it’s not a baseless rumor.   

 

Has anyone read about law enforcement having no duty to protect us?   I haven’t deeply researched any of this, but just a quick search says courts have affirmed they don’t, even though they take an oath.  Yikes. 

[hshibley]

24 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Has anyone read about law enforcement having no duty to protect us?   I haven’t deeply researched any of this, but just a quick search says courts have affirmed they don’t, even though they take an oath.  Yikes. 

Yes here’s a link https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2018/12/21/us-judge-says-law-enforcement-officers-had-no-legal-duty-protect-parkland-students-during-mass-shooting/

This is all so overwhelming. Police have no obligation to do anything. It makes you wonder what’s the point in having them involved. Parkland was one resource officer running for his car. This case police formed a perimeter blocking help while doing nothing. 

[TechWife]

15 hours ago, Lovinglife123 said:

Is your DH going into a war zone daily unarmed?  Because it is a war zone since Columbine.  I’m not suggesting machine guns for teachers but a concealed weapon absolutely.  They are the  ones shielding their students from attacks with their own bodies !!!   And yes do the other stuff like New Zealand.  I’m not for more guns in general, I would loooove more gun laws.  Show me any other situation where someone is shielding others with their body.  Didn’t happen in Buffalo, Everyone hid.  Teachers.. never.

Yeah - that’ll work until the four year old pre-k student hugs his teacher &. shoots the teacher all in the same motion. How in the world is a teacher supposed to decide between shooting someone who has a AR-15 with a handgun and helping the children hide? The likely scenario is that the teacher shoots  and possibly injure, but not kills the intruder, the intruder kills the teacher with their high powered weapon then kills all of the four year olds because they weren’t able to hide effectively because they were four - they needed their teachers help! Typical four year olds aren’t able to tie their shoes, button small buttons, write their names and often don’t remember to look before they cross a street. They aren’t going to be able to hide by themselves while frightened because they have just seen their teacher shot to death right in from of them.

No. 

[Farrar]

I'm just now coming back to this thread, but... the more that comes out about the misinformation from the spokespeople for the police and how long the shooter was in the building... I just... the mind boggles. I genuinely do not understand. WaPo has a list of all the things that have changed in the official account of what happened. They preface it by saying you expect in an event like this for the official account and the media to get some things wrong at first, but it seems especially striking. The list includes:

* No one tried to stop him from going inside like they said initially
* No school based police officer was shot or shot at, which is especially striking to me as they initially called that person a hero - that person who didn't even exist, I guess!?
* He was outside for at least 12 minutes so he didn't go right in as they initially said
* They said law enforcement pinned him down in the classroom, but then they changed it to say he barricaded himself in the classroom
* He wasn't wearing body armor
* They said the LEO's went right in, but then they said they didn't because of the gunfire

I just... do not get this at all. They didn't follow best practices. And they clearly knew people were upset and felt they needed to act because they were literally restraining people from going inside. Whether or not actual LEO's went in to rescue individual kids, it's definitely true that they handcuffed a parent who was trying to get past them to rescue a kid.

[maize]

I've been thinking about the arm-the-teachers push. Does anyone else think this could potentially encourage more suicidal people to threaten schools for suicide-by-teacher as many have done to achieve suicide-by-cop?

It seems like a bad idea all around.