vent - baby formula scarcity

[Faith-manor]

5 hours ago, denarii said:

Just putting this out there.

I ave four kids, two bf, and two formula fed. This feels so darn accurate!! 😂😂😂

[Faith-manor]

55 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The House passed the Access to Baby Formula Act yesterday, which relaxes restrictions on the brands of formula that people can buy with WIC. The impact of the Abbott closure specifically on families that rely on WIC is astounding:

"About half of infant formula sold nationwide is purchased with WIC benefits, which restricts the types of formulas that recipients can buy. Moreover, Abbott Nutrition’s formula products serve 89 percent of all infants participating in WIC, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) Food and Nutrition Service."

https://edlabor.house.gov/imo/media/doc/Fact Sheet - Access to Baby Formula Act.pdf

Staggering! And I am mad as hell that the stupid politicians allowed nearly 90% of low income babies to be at risk because of these restrictions, and also allowing Abbott to have a monopoly on something so fricking life and death! @#$%& 😠😠😠

 

[Ting Tang]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

Well today I heard from the WSJ that at least some people think the shortage will last months.

I foresee some changes in how parents feed their babies.  I do think some people currently having babies will make the decision to breastfeed / breastfeed longer than they originally planned.  (Which I think is good from a macro perspective at least.)  I think most people will change their views on how long babies "need" specially-formulated baby drinks.  Formula companies will probably experience significantly decreased demand in the long run.  Prices may go up as a result, who knows?

The US government has long been a major purchaser of baby formula, and I don't understand how this shortage was not foreseen.  It's surreal to me.

Well, many things are surreal to me right now.  But that's a conversation for another thread...or perhaps one best not to have, LOL. 

[denarii]

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

I was NOT going to cosleep. I fully planned on giving bottles at night, so that dh could help (had twins).  Then, when I finally got established with bf'ing after 3 months (preemies, seizures, 2 hospital stays), I discovered that I could bf while lying in bed. Cosleeping and nursing at night it was after that! Pretty much nursed all night long; I'd change sides to give them each a turn. Rotisserie mom!

But, yeah, whatever works is different for every family based on a wide variety of factors.  Babies fed, and as much sleep as possible = good.  I had to supplement w/ formula while we figured things out, or they would've starved.  And if I had had to work at all, it would have had to be formula for the duration.

Rotisserie mom!

😂😂😂

That's how I handled twins too 🤣

[Kassia]

2 minutes ago, denarii said:

Rotisserie mom!

😂😂😂

That's how I handled twins too 🤣

same  

[TechWife]

29 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Staggering! And I am mad as hell that the stupid politicians allowed nearly 90% of low income babies to be at risk because of these restrictions, and also allowing Abbott to have a monopoly on something so fricking life and death! @#$%& 😠😠😠

 

The shortage is a direct result of a capitalistic economy.

Companies maximize profits by timing the ordering of ingredients, staff scheduling and equipment maintenance so that they don't end up with product sitting on shelves for a long period of time.

Generally speaking, FDA regulations are good things. From what I'm observing, the problem come with some of their operational requirements. I think they could have moved faster in this case, particularly as it comes to acting on the Abbott whistleblower report. Temporarily easing import restrictions is a step forward, but they probably should have done that weeks ago, especially when they realized the Abbott plant was going to be down for several weeks. They could also certainly make some permanent changes that would diversify the supply chain. However, that might or might not have a significant impact in the long run because any new companies coming in will have to compete for market share with well-established companies. There are a lot of people and organizations that must be influenced through that marketing - hospitals, nutritionists, physicians, nurses, social workers and purchasers to name a few. After they buy in, you still have to get the parents to buy in. Changing formulas in an emergency situation has a different decision matrix than making permanent changes. This is a tall order for a product that has a shrinking market.

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

The shortage is a direct result of a capitalistic economy.

Companies maximize profits by timing the ordering of ingredients, staff scheduling and equipment maintenance so that they don't end up with product sitting on shelves for a long period of time.

Generally speaking, FDA regulations are good things. From what I'm observing, the problem come with some of their operational requirements. I think they could have moved faster in this case, particularly as it comes to acting on the Abbott whistleblower report. Temporarily easing import restrictions is a step forward, but they probably should have done that weeks ago, especially when they realized the Abbott plant was going to be down for several weeks. They could also certainly make some permanent changes that would diversify the supply chain. However, that might or might not have a significant impact in the long run because any new companies coming in will have to compete for market share with well-established companies. There are a lot of people and organizations that must be influenced through that marketing - hospitals, nutritionists, physicians, nurses, social workers and purchasers to name a few. After they buy in, you still have to get the parents to buy in. Changing formulas in an emergency situation has a different decision matrix than making permanent changes. This is a tall order for a product that has a shrinking market.

Well, after hearing the stats on WIC brands, I have this strange feeling that tightening up lobbying laws could help competition.

[TechWife]

19 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Well, after hearing the stats on WIC brands, I have this strange feeling that tightening up lobbying laws could help competition.

I don't think that's going to happen, though. They still have to convince everyone and their uncle of their reliability.

[Idalou]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Well, after hearing the stats on WIC brands, I have this strange feeling that tightening up lobbying laws could help competition.

Speaking of lobbyists

https://theintercept.com/2022/05/13/baby-formula-shortage-abbott-bacteria-safety-testing-lobbying/

[Jann in TX]

My DH was put on cows milk at birth!  MIL just could not bring herself to BF-- she even tried her best to keep me from BFing!!

DH was 'healthy' with the exception that he had TONS of allergies and had several series of allergy shots in elementary and high school.

I'm thankful that GS is 2 and we do not have to worry about the formula shortage.  His mom became ill when he was 6 weeks old and she had to stop BFing...  If GS were younger I'd be a goat farmer!

[teachermom2834]

I don’t work and the dd I homeschool is 14 yo. I keep thinking that if my grown kids had babies I would be driving all over the country searching for formula. I am sure if it had been my babies I would have searched out the homemade recipe I felt best about but now that I don’t have babies and I have time and a reliable car I imagine myself spending all my time searching for formula. I think I would feel so helpless it would be all I could do! 

[Katy]

6 hours ago, TechWife said:

I don't think that's going to happen, though. They still have to convince everyone and their uncle of their reliability.

This is literally a non-factor. Formula is so regulated that with the exception of choosing organic as a preference or needing a specialty formula due to intolerance or allergy, it doesn’t matter. All of them are the same from a chemical and nutritional standpoint. 

The point upthread about economic class having a lot to do with this choice is true. Most of the infants we’ve had in foster care were on formula from birth, their moms never considered trying to nurse because they needed to work, one of them didn’t even wait ten days off because she didn’t have the money or financial support. 

Most of the moms I know with a college degree nursed for at least a year IF it was possible for them, several just couldn’t. I too have noticed a correlation between formula and higher intelligence. Fed is best. 

[Bootsie]

32 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

Most of the moms I know with a college degree nursed for at least a year IF it was possible for them, several just couldn’t. I too have noticed a correlation between formula and higher intelligence. Fed is best. 

I know MANY college educated women who have not breast fed and for a wide number of reasons.  Of those I know who did breast feed, I can only think of one who did for a year.  

[MercyA]

12 hours ago, Catwoman said:

More importantly, not everyone WANTS to breastfeed. 

Right. And that is no one else's business. Goodness, it's just one small thing in the grand scheme of child-rearing. I don't get the fixation and the judgment.

I did not enjoy breastfeeding at all. Loved bottle feeding and didn't find it difficult. My baby was happy and healthy on formula and she is way smarter than me now. 😉 

[TechWife]

9 hours ago, Katy said:

This is literally a non-factor. Formula is so regulated that with the exception of choosing organic as a preference or needing a specialty formula due to intolerance or allergy, it doesn’t matter. All of them are the same from a chemical and nutritional standpoint. 

 

Actually, it is a factor. The current companies are entrenched in the medical community. Nestle is one of the largest, if not the largest, formula manufacturer in Europe. They started selling formula here in the US when my son was an infant - 26 years ago. All these years later, they have 10% of the market share in the US. That’s two and a half decades to carve out a small niche in the market. Why? Because perception matters. Marketing matters. The stakeholders in actual formula usage matter. They aren’t convinced enough to change consumer habits. Whether or not this shortage provides a catalyst for change remains to be seen. A great deal hinges on what formulas are recommended by physicians - and their experience is based in their training, which takes place at large hospitals that have contracts with the two largest manufacturers for the bulk of their formula purchases. In hospital, a physician will often pass formula questions to the dietician, who has the list of what’s available in house. That’s the starting point and it meets the needs of the majority of infants. This availability is reinforced through state contracts for WIC programs, continuing the lack of variety available to consumers. 

[Katy]

30 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Actually, it is a factor. The current companies are entrenched in the medical community. Nestle is one of the largest, if not the largest, formula manufacturer in Europe. They started selling formula here in the US when my son was an infant - 26 years ago. All these years later, they have 10% of the market share in the US. That’s two and a half decades to carve out a small niche in the market. Why? Because perception matters. Marketing matters. The stakeholders in actual formula usage matter. They aren’t convinced enough to change consumer habits. Whether or not this shortage provides a catalyst for change remains to be seen. A great deal hinges on what formulas are recommended by physicians - and their experience is based in their training, which takes place at large hospitals that have contracts with the two largest manufacturers for the bulk of their formula purchases. In hospital, a physician will often pass formula questions to the dietician, who has the list of what’s available in house. That’s the starting point and it meets the needs of the majority of infants. This availability is reinforced through state contracts for WIC programs, continuing the lack of variety available to consumers. 

I agree consumer habits are a factor, but in terms of nutrition it doesn’t matter. Which companies are recommended for WIC varies by state, and pediatricians generally prefer the one that was recommended wherever their residency was, at least according to our last pediatrician. 

[TechWife]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

I agree consumer habits are a factor, but in terms of nutrition it doesn’t matter. Which companies are recommended for WIC varies by state, and pediatricians generally prefer the one that was recommended wherever their residency was, at least according to our last pediatrician. 

Yes, that’s because of how the largest companies market to hospitals, who then inform consumer habits. There is variance in WIC, but not enough to change the make up of the market. Physicians often don’t know the formulas are so similar to each other because they haven’t been exposed to that information. 

[ktgrok]

9 hours ago, MercyA said:

Goodness, it's just one small thing in the grand scheme of child-rearing. I don't get the fixation and the judgment.

 

I do NOT think there should be judgement. And I do not think anyone should question or even think about another individuals feeding method. 

BUT

It is a public health issue, which is why there is a focus on it. Any given individual may not be healthier, but at a population level it seems to make a difference. So we try to promote it. 

But one can feel that at a population level it would be better if more babies were breastfed at least for a while, and ALSO feel that any individual person's method of feeding their baby is none of anyone's business. 

[Bootsie]

2 hours ago, TechWife said:

Actually, it is a factor. The current companies are entrenched in the medical community. Nestle is one of the largest, if not the largest, formula manufacturer in Europe. They started selling formula here in the US when my son was an infant - 26 years ago. All these years later, they have 10% of the market share in the US. That’s two and a half decades to carve out a small niche in the market. Why? Because perception matters. Marketing matters. The stakeholders in actual formula usage matter. They aren’t convinced enough to change consumer habits. Whether or not this shortage provides a catalyst for change remains to be seen. A great deal hinges on what formulas are recommended by physicians - and their experience is based in their training, which takes place at large hospitals that have contracts with the two largest manufacturers for the bulk of their formula purchases. In hospital, a physician will often pass formula questions to the dietician, who has the list of what’s available in house. That’s the starting point and it meets the needs of the majority of infants. This availability is reinforced through state contracts for WIC programs, continuing the lack of variety available to consumers. 

Nestle was selling infant formula in the US in the late 1800s.  In 1977 a boycott of Nestle was launched in the US because of aggressive infant formula marketing, especially in underdeveloped countries.  Calls to boycott Nestle have surfaced time and time again sense then.  There is a history of the perception of Nestle formula in the US--yes perceptions matter and marketing matters.  In this case, Nestle's marketing lead to negative perceptions of the company and its product; it has not been able to overcome that in the US market. 

[shawthorne44]

On 5/19/2022 at 2:06 AM, Clarita said:

So she was exclusively breastfeed because I'm lazy.

 

This is something that people don't talk about.    I get why, since when breastfeeding isn't going well, it is the opposite and very hard.  So, They don't want moms going in thinking it is easy, and then quitting when it isn't.   But, when it was going well, it was so much easier than dealing with formula and the quantity of bottles, and getting the formula the right temp.   Well, maybe it is that the work involved in using formula isn't discussed.  
 

[Clarita]

4 hours ago, shawthorne44 said:

This is something that people don't talk about.    I get why, since when breastfeeding isn't going well, it is the opposite and very hard.  So, They don't want moms going in thinking it is easy, and then quitting when it isn't. 

I also think in general the "it can get easier/better" and support as to how to do or get through it isn't offered much.

The "flipple" method of helping with latching helped me a ton. 

General encouragement and support instead of "don't forget to keep your supply up", foremilk/hindmilk be sure to be giving your baby the right breastmilk, if your baby ever touches a bottle nipple your breastfeeding journey is over, etc. (FYI breastmilk is really yummy and sweet. Formula is pretty bland in comparison. There is incentive for the baby to get the breastmilk.)

[rebcoola]

The Abbott plant has reclosed due to it flooding.

Edited June 19, 2022 by rebcoola

[TravelingChris]

On 5/18/2022 at 11:13 PM, TechWife said:

This really bothers me. I breasted my son for 13 months - I think breastfeeding is great. I was and am wholly aware that people make different decisions for reasons that are none of my business.  Frankly, you don’t know everything there is to know about the mom’s & babies that “didn’t even try.” Do you have any idea of the reasons a mom would not breastfeed a baby? Reasons that are absolutely invisible to those around them, yet absolutely crucial for the health & well-being of one or more family members? It’s real. Also -  “I don’t want to” is a legitimate reason to choose not to breastfeed. 

I couldn't breast feed because I took medications that would transfer to the baby.  I had autoimmune diseases that came roaring back after pregnancy.  As others said, you don't know what is the problem.  My babies were born in 89 to 96 and there were definitely mothers who looked down on me for bottle feeding.