Immediate prayer needed

[Spryte]

Sending you some love and hugs this morning. I don’t know the right words, but you are all in my heart.

[Soror]

7 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

People can take a few gasping, agonal breaths even as their heart is stopping.  I am positive there is nothing she or any medical professionals could have done. There is very seldom anything anyone can do for severe traumatic injuries that cause death in the first few minutes after the trauma. She did absolutely the right things.

unfortunately there always seem to be rumors and misinformation floating around after these things. I’d avoid any news articles about it too; often there’s inaccuracies there as well.
I remain praying for you all. 

Thank you--- tbh dd was very upset that the EMT's weren't quicker when they got there getting to him but I don't think it mattered in the end. We got the call he had passed pretty soon after he got to the hospital I think they just didn't want to call it in the field. 

Re: news articles- none of them even mention he had a passenger-- usually the HP will have number of passengers and any injuries. It is weird to me. It is upsetting to her in a way because it is like writing her out of this very big thing that she was very much a part of--- if that makes sense. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

7 minutes ago, Soror said:

Thank you--- tbh dd was very upset that the EMT's weren't quicker when they got there getting to him but I don't think it mattered in the end. We got the call he had passed pretty soon after he got to the hospital I think they just didn't want to call it in the field. 

Re: news articles- none of them even mention he had a passenger-- usually the HP will have number of passengers and any injuries. It is weird to me. It is upsetting to her in a way because it is like writing her out of this very big thing that she was very much a part of--- if that makes sense. 

You’re probably right. I hate calling it in the field when someone is so young. Even when I know it’s futile as almost every traumatic cardiac arrest is—but I don’t want parents sitting up at night wondering if there was a chance ifykwim.  Everything feels in slow motion, but the truth is that if there’s only one ambulance crew there and I see a patient in traumatic cardiac arrest and a patient still in the car and possibly injured, the awake patient is probably my initial priority.  Depending on the damage they also physically may not have been able to quickly get to him. 
I have had families contact my agency afterward to ask questions of the paramedic on scene, usually just to try to get closure and know that their loved one did not suffer/try to understand what was going on. I personally am always happy to talk to them.  That may be more traumatic for her now, but possibly in the future it might give her some closure.

News tends to be the bane of my existence. They get in the way, report half the facts, take and publish pictures that are unhelpful to the grieving families, and with the advent of FB they’re often reporting stuff before we even get to the hospital and putting up pictures of the vehicle before families have been notified .  It may be better off for her just to avoid all of that for a while.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Katy]

6 minutes ago, Soror said:

Thank you--- tbh dd was very upset that the EMT's weren't quicker when they got there getting to him but I don't think it mattered in the end. We got the call he had passed pretty soon after he got to the hospital I think they just didn't want to call it in the field. 

Re: news articles- none of them even mention he had a passenger-- usually the HP will have number of passengers and any injuries. It is weird to me. It is upsetting to her in a way because it is like writing her out of this very big thing that she was very much a part of--- if that makes sense. 

I think it's likely they didn't want to call it in the field, I was told that several times in the ER that they frequently won't with children.

I'm sorry about the articles.  Chances are because they are minors they didn't release as much information as they typically would. You could request a correction.

[AbcdeDooDah]

Just now, Katy said:

I think it's likely they didn't want to call it in the field, I was told that several times in the ER that they frequently won't with children.

 

Here, emt is not allowed to call it, only paramedic so could be why.

Soror, I am so sorry for all your families are going through. It’s heartbreaking and I wish you the best. 

[Soror]

3 minutes ago, Katy said:

I think it's likely they didn't want to call it in the field, I was told that several times in the ER that they frequently won't with children.

I'm sorry about the articles.  Chances are because they are minors they didn't release as much information as they typically would. You could request a correction.

No, no, no we would never ever request a correction. DD is not trying to get in the spotlight here at all (that is why she has yet to make any public comments/posts etc whatsoever). She would feel that way to request it be added, even leaving her name out. It is what it is, was just making a comment re: inaccurate news articles. 

It is hard to ride the line between acknowledging that she has very real hurt and the guilt over knowing that they are going through so much more and not wanting to in anyway act like those are comparable.

[wintermom]

2 minutes ago, Soror said:

No, no, no we would never ever request a correction. DD is not trying to get in the spotlight here at all (that is why she has yet to make any public comments/posts etc whatsoever). She would feel that way to request it be added, even leaving her name out. It is what it is, was just making a comment re: inaccurate news articles. 

It is hard to ride the line between acknowledging that she has very real hurt and the guilt over knowing that they are going through so much more and not wanting to in anyway act like those are comparable.

She sounds like a wonderful and kind person. Media of any kind are just not helpful during these times. Big hugs to you all through this traumatic time. 

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Soror said:

No, no, no we would never ever request a correction. DD is not trying to get in the spotlight here at all (that is why she has yet to make any public comments/posts etc whatsoever). She would feel that way to request it be added, even leaving her name out. It is what it is, was just making a comment re: inaccurate news articles. 

It is hard to ride the line between acknowledging that she has very real hurt and the guilt over knowing that they are going through so much more and not wanting to in anyway act like those are comparable.

I thought she would feel that way, but you never know.  Not having it documented might also make it feel more surreal.

It sounds like you're doing a good job of walking that line. 

As time passes and the shock turns to grief, keep an eye out for situational depression.  For me that looked like an inability to control my emotions ever, and not wanting to get out of bed, but not being able to sleep. And if that is a problem, she might want to go off hormonal birth control until it is under control. It took me about three days to feel grief instead of depression.

[sheryl]

Oh my!  That is absolutely terrible and I can't imagine the "shock" your dd is experiencing.   What can one say?  Words just don't seem adequate to express the condolence but still, so sorry!  Just now reading this and will pray for your dd and his family this morning. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I don’t think you need to feel guilty at all about your own grief.  I don’t get the impression you’re calling up his parents telling them you know exactly how they feel, which would be inappropriate, but you’re entitled to your own grief.  It’s not a competition, there are no levels of grief.  They suffered a great loss, but that doesn’t diminish your pain either.

You, too, are grieving the loss of the daughter you knew.  This isn’t the end of her story, but it’s going to be a pivotal chapter in her life.  The daughter you had last week is not the same person you have today.  She is not the same daughter. And you grieving that doesn’t take away or diminish the other family’s grief at all. 
When I was in college, a classmate was killed in a car accident.  Her fiancé was in the passenger seat and survived with only minor injuries. I had known both of them(my classmate I actually had known since I was 15).  He was never the same person after she died.  The Mark i knew before her death was not the Mark I’ve know  in the almost 20 years since. Over the years, I watched him grow into a wise, compassionate, caring, confident man.  He was all of those things before, but the pain of her death seemed to carve a well so deep in his soul that he could fill it with even more of the qualities he already had.  And he changed in painful ways too—guilt, the loss of innocence(because we all believe we are invincible at those young ages), grief, nightmares.    
In many ways, I grieved the loss of both of my friends that day. She was dead and he was not the friend I had had.  As I said, it’s not a competition.  You’re entitled to every way you feel, and you grieving for your daughter doesn’t somehow take away from their pain.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[DawnM]

4 hours ago, Soror said:

Yes, I called the school yesterday am to let them know she would be out. I didn't honestly think of them as a resource, we've obviously not been through anything like this. This is a new counselor and tbh so far he's been really unhelpful in other things this year. But his composure on the phone gave me some hope he might be helpful. I think if nothing else it might be a safe place to go when she goes back to school if things get overwhelming.

I appreciate any/all of it. I get it. I don't know what to say either. It is just horrible. There is nothing that makes it better.

I think so too. I totally understand her wanting to be there. It makes me anxious just thinking about it tbh but I will be there for her.

High School  counselors do more academic advising and such than actual counseling.   I have done it, and I prefer middle school because I can actually get more real counseling done.   But if given the chance, maybe he can step up for this concern.

Is the school offering counseling to students?   For our district, any time a death of a student occurs, counselors are available for a few days to help students with grief counseling.   They even usually call in counselors from other schools to help.

[wintermom]

This is my suggestion for spreading rumours:

[kbutton]

11 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

People can take a few gasping, agonal breaths even as their heart is stopping.  I am positive there is nothing she or any medical professionals could have done. There is very seldom anything anyone can do for severe traumatic injuries that cause death in the first few minutes after the trauma. She did absolutely the right things.

unfortunately there always seem to be rumors and misinformation floating around after these things. I’d avoid any news articles about it too; often there’s inaccuracies there as well.
I remain praying for you all. 

Thank you for addressing this. I hadn’t gotten to verify if it applies to trauma, so I didn’t want to say anything, but I have heard of this. I think it’s important for Soror’s DD to know this. 

[Quarter Note]

@Soror, I'm so sorry about this tragic accident.  Special prayers for your daughter. 

[Soror]

@wintermom yes, there is a lot of negative to SM but it is not all bad. It's the way kids communicate these days. I've tried to encourage her to give people some grace and remember just because she sees this as rude doesn't mean his family does-- best to unfollow people that bother her.

@KatyThank you for the info. We are certainly on high alert re: depression. I'm very, very concerned about it.

@Mrs Tiggywinkle thank you for the words of comfort and information. I will be sharing that when the time is right. Dd's relationship with bf was obviously not anywhere near that of someone engaged but it will change here regardless, you are right.

@DawnMI honestly don't know if they have counselors brought in or just the regular ones. Ds is in VoTech half the day and not attentive. 

---------------------------------------

Dd went last night to a little service they had at the school track meet (he was in track).  His family invited her to sit with them. That was rough on her. AFterwards, she tried to go out to eat with a friend but said she had to leave. She then went back to bf's house and a bunch of his friends were there telling stories and jokes about bf and that really lifted her up. 

Today she's going to school- she thinks she's ready. IDK I'm on standby (15 min away) and she knows she can go to the counselor's office too. Very, very unfortunately her fav teacher she would visit all the time and would be a big source of comfort is also bf's aunt and out all week. She's hoping the sub will let her in the greenhouse as she loves to go there to get some time to herself. 

Please think of her today

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I am praying especially for her today. 

[Laura Corin]

Thinking of your daughter, @Soror

[Innisfree]

I’ll be thinking of her through the day.

[Katy]

Praying her day goes well

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I'll be thinking of both of you today and praying for peace and strength to make it through the day.

[Dmmetler]

I will also say, after the last few months, I’m not sure a quick death in response to major trauma isn’t sometimes a blessing. DD probably isn’t ready to think about that now, but it’s definitely something on my mind right now.

[Soror]

5 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I will also say, after the last few months, I’m not sure a quick death in response to major trauma isn’t sometimes a blessing. DD probably isn’t ready to think about that now, but it’s definitely something on my mind right now.

Yes, I think so too and we've talked a bit about that. If he was going to pass much better it was swift so he didn't have to suffer. But it is hard to think of it that way for now.

---------

And his family has asked her if she wants to put anything in his casket she's not sure about that yet. She got back her wallet, several little things were missing but she doesn't want to ask them to go back (understandably).

Now, she's worried she'll be out of place in her black dress. His friends are all wearing one color- not sure what. His family decided yesterday to wear whatever. I think there will still be plenty in black and will be wearing it myself. I still need shoes. I have 1 pair of dressier shoes. I bought for fil's funeral. Since I was on a time crunch I had to get what I could find and they are small on me and give me blisters. Not so bad for a short service but we will be there 6 hrs.

Yes, 6 hrs-- 10-11 family/close friend visitation; 11-3 reg visitation and 3 funeral and burial.

I'm extremely nervous about making it through it. Very, very thankfully dh will be able to be there. He is absolutely, completely swamped at work and college right now and they keep on piling on more. 

[Katy]

To whatever extent the opinion of a mom she doesn’t know on the internet matters, a black dress at a funeral is always appropriate. Is it possible his friends chose his favorite color because they all already have something that color to wear and can’t all go out and buy black suits quickly? Both cost and supply chain is a factor with emergencies. And with kids that age they grow so quickly chances are even if they had a suit that fit last month it may not fit now. 

[Junie]

Praying for your dd today. 😞

[wintermom]

I'll be thinking of you all today and praying the day goes as well as can be expected. ((hugs))

[Kassia]

Thinking of all of you today and wishing you didn't have to go through this.  

[mommyoffive]

Thinking of everyone today.  Sending lots of peace and hugs.

[Soror]

So far so good.

I found out that dd evidently broke down and got a bit hysterical at the memorial at track. She didn't tell me that, only that it was sad. It's hard with ones old enough to want some independence going through such hard things. I want to be there with her all the time but that is not what she wants. So, I'm trying to give space as she asks for it and not spaz out worrying about her.

 

[Kassia]

15 minutes ago, Soror said:

So far so good.

I found out that dd evidently broke down and got a bit hysterical at the memorial at track. She didn't tell me that, only that it was sad. It's hard with ones old enough to want some independence going through such hard things. I want to be there with her all the time but that is not what she wants. So, I'm trying to give space as she asks for it and not spaz out worrying about her.

 

This is so hard for both her and for you as her mom.

A different situation, but one of my sons was in a school shooting where 3 students were murdered right in front of him.  He grew up with two of them and the shooter.  He chose not to attend the funerals (obviously this would be harder for your dd).  We did go and they were so tough - so many mixed emotions as we grieved for the victims while being so grateful our son was okay.  But knowing what to do as a parent of a traumatized teen was really hard - not knowing how much space to give him, wanting to nurture him but not smother him, etc.  And I was really grieving but didn't want him to know since his suffering was so much greater than mine.  

Big hugs to all of you.  I'm so sorry.

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, Soror said:

. I have 1 pair of dressier shoes. I bought for fil's funeral. Since I was on a time crunch I had to get what I could find and they are small on me and give me blisters. Not so bad for a short service but we will be there 6 hrs.

Shoe expanders if you have, very useful for leather shoes. Vaseline to line the inside of the shoes and wear ankle stockings if possible. I have had times where I had to wear new leather pumps to conferences before they were broken in.

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

Praying for you and your dd with all of these things.  It will be a hard next few days. I pray you allow yourself to feel the weight of it all but also find strength you didn't even know you had. Many prayers your way ❤️ 

[Catwoman]

Praying here. 

[wintermom]

1 minute ago, Kassia said:

This is so hard for both her and for you as her mom.

A different situation, but one of my sons was in a school shooting where 3 students were murdered right in front of him.  He grew up with two of them and the shooter.  He chose not to attend the funerals (obviously this would be harder for your dd).  We did go and they were so tough - so many mixed emotions as we grieved for the victims while being so grateful our son was okay.  But knowing what to do as a parent of a traumatized teen was really hard - not knowing how much space to give him, wanting to nurture him but not smother him, etc.  And I was really grieving but didn't want him to know since his suffering was so much greater than mine.  

Big hugs to all of you.  I'm so sorry.

Wow, what a tramatic event and situation to deal with for your ds and your family. I hope your ds is doing alright now.

[Soror]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

Shoe expanders if you have, very useful for leather shoes. Vaseline to line the inside of the shoes and wear ankle stockings if possible. I have had times where I had to wear new leather pumps to conferences before they were broken in.

 

Hmmm, thanks for the tips. I might be ok if I bring some moleskin with me.

1 hour ago, Kassia said:

This is so hard for both her and for you as her mom.

A different situation, but one of my sons was in a school shooting where 3 students were murdered right in front of him.  He grew up with two of them and the shooter.  He chose not to attend the funerals (obviously this would be harder for your dd).  We did go and they were so tough - so many mixed emotions as we grieved for the victims while being so grateful our son was okay.  But knowing what to do as a parent of a traumatized teen was really hard - not knowing how much space to give him, wanting to nurture him but not smother him, etc.  And I was really grieving but didn't want him to know since his suffering was so much greater than mine.  

Big hugs to all of you.  I'm so sorry.

Your poor son. I hope he is in a better place now. You summed up the feelings and thoughts well. 

[DreamerGirl]

Thinking of you, your daughter and everyone involved on this difficult day.

((Hugs)), so much ((hugs)).

[MercyA]

I've started to reply to this thread again and again and I just don't know what to say, except I'm so very sorry. And that whatever feelings you have, and your daughter has, are real and valid. Teen love can be just as intense as adult love, if not more so. Sending you both hugs. 

[Catwoman]

I will be praying tomorrow, because I’m sure the funeral will be so hard for everyone. 😞 

[Frances]

Continuing to keep all of you, including the young man’s family, in my thoughts. 

[Lisa]

I'm so sorry. That is so tragic. Praying for your dd and his family.

[fraidycat]

Keeping you all in my thoughts for tomorrow.

[PinkTulip]

Praying for all of you to have the strength you need for tomorrow. Sending all my love to all of you. 

[DoraBora]

Covering you all in prayer today...

[Momto6inIN]

On 4/26/2022 at 11:36 AM, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I don’t think you need to feel guilty at all about your own grief.  I don’t get the impression you’re calling up his parents telling them you know exactly how they feel, which would be inappropriate, but you’re entitled to your own grief.  It’s not a competition, there are no levels of grief.  They suffered a great loss, but that doesn’t diminish your pain either.

You, too, are grieving the loss of the daughter you knew.  This isn’t the end of her story, but it’s going to be a pivotal chapter in her life.  The daughter you had last week is not the same person you have today.  She is not the same daughter. And you grieving that doesn’t take away or diminish the other family’s grief at all. 
When I was in college, a classmate was killed in a car accident.  Her fiancé was in the passenger seat and survived with only minor injuries. I had known both of them(my classmate I actually had known since I was 15).  He was never the same person after she died.  The Mark i knew before her death was not the Mark I’ve know  in the almost 20 years since. Over the years, I watched him grow into a wise, compassionate, caring, confident man.  He was all of those things before, but the pain of her death seemed to carve a well so deep in his soul that he could fill it with even more of the qualities he already had.  And he changed in painful ways too—guilt, the loss of innocence(because we all believe we are invincible at those young ages), grief, nightmares.    
In many ways, I grieved the loss of both of my friends that day. She was dead and he was not the friend I had had.  As I said, it’s not a competition.  You’re entitled to every way you feel, and you grieving for your daughter doesn’t somehow take away from their pain.

Thank you so much for this. My son recently lost a dear friend (we wondered if she might have become more than a friend in time) and I haven't really felt like I have permission to grieve since I haven't lost my own child or my own friend. But in a small not comparable way, I have, and I really appreciate you verbalizing what I've been feeling ❤️

 

20 hours ago, Kassia said:

 But knowing what to do as a parent of a traumatized teen was really hard - not knowing how much space to give him, wanting to nurture him but not smother him, etc.  And I was really grieving but didn't want him to know since his suffering was so much greater than mine.

Your son's trauma was so much more than my son's, but I feel the exact same way.

 

@Soror I don't know what to say except I'm so sorry.

[Soror]

Hugs @Momto6inINit is a hard spot to be in 😞

It really is crazy when I read someone else feeling they don't have permission to grieve but I feel it so deeply. I'm currently trying to psyche myself up so I don't break down today because I don't want to anyway make the families pain worse. I felt when I got to the hospital I did make it worse with my crying. Mom left the room at that point. I know there are probably many emotions for her right now too but I just don't want to screw things up.

-----------

Dd said yesterday was ok'ish. She did go to the counselor for one class and left another for awhile. Assholes were saying she was lying about being there. And the worse thing--- one guy (she went out with a couple of times last fall and broke up with b/c he was a total jerk) made a joke about wrecks to her friend with dd sitting right beside her. Dd told him that was disrespectful and cut it out but he kept at it. She told him to shut up and leave and then he said he was going to hit her (b*tch I'm going to slap you- repeatedly). She told him to go ahead he didn't touch her but he just kept saying it. She was screaming at him at that point. He finally left the room--- it wasn't even his class--- there was a sub there. She told a teacher who said they would tell the principal. 5 minutes after he left he sent an apology that he didn't know it was her in the truck. It shouldn't even had mattered, that is in such poor taste right now (not to mention the threats because she asked him not to say something). Kid was just suspended for trespassing at school after hours. he is a stereotypical spoiled rich kid. Parents think he hung the moon and he is a punk. 

Sigh. I'll be calling the school about that tomorrow. I can't handle the emotion of that today.

Then we went shopping all over town (finally made it home at 9) as dd was feeling very out of place with everyone saying they were wearing different colors. We bought a bunch of stuff not knowing what would work. Ended up with a purple jacket to go over her black dress. I bought a different dress but will be returning it and sticking with the black. Got different shoes which are more comfortable but I seem to keep tripping in them so I guess it is bandaids and moleskin for me.

DD had said she wanted to stay the whole time but is now reconsidering. If nothing else we will need to eat sometime. I'm thinking come early stay a while. Go eat lunch and come back early for the funeral. We'll see. 

And there is old gf stress for dd. I can understand she is hurting too but to keep posting publicly on and on about loving him seems disrespectful. 

[Jaybee]

I'm so sorry she is having to deal with inexcusable behavior from jerks piled on top of everything else. That's so crazy--why why why would people act that way?? Unless it is out of their own fear of their own mortality, which still doesn't excuse it. 

Praying for strength for the day for you all. Praying that the time in corporate grieving will be healing. Praying that as the days go by, you all are able to find the help you need, the space to process, the ability to rest, the patience to grieve at grief's own pace, and moments of joy in the midst of the pain. 

[livetoread]

My then teen son had a best friend die and while I knew the friend pretty well, we weren't super close or anything. It was several years ago, and I still am grieving some. For me, it's mostly identifying with his mother. I have images in my mind of her from the funeral that make me cry just thinking about them. I'm tearing up as I write this. We always know our kids can die, but watching a mother I know and like go through that in real time was horrible. It's been several years now and she still cries almost every time we see each other and talk as do I. I don't miss him so much as I feel her grief, knowing it could be me.

[mommyoffive]

I am so sorry her day at school wasn't a good one at all.  I can't imagine having to deal with all that.  Thinking of you both today and sending hugs and prayers of strength.

[BusyMom5]

Praying for you today.

[Lilaclady]

Prayers for you all today 

[Grace Hopper]

People can be so stupid. I hate that for your dd. 
 

You are all on my heart and in my prayers today. May you have strength to endure the ceremonies and conversations and feel grounded as you move through the day. God be with you.