IEP help

[Dmmetler]

The first IEP meeting for C was today, and mom has asked me to sit in on the next one, because she feels they got it wrong, or at least not quite right, and that she was unable to explain in "education speak". 

Things I absolutely agree with

C has extremely low processing speed

C struggles to put writing on the page and his written vocabulary does not match his level of speech or comprehension

C performs below grade level substantially on timed tests, but performs on grade level except for writing in the classroom and on homework, however it takes him substantially longer to turn out a grade level product

C struggles to maintain attention in a group setting, and they recommend ADHD medication. 

 

C is substantially below grade level in mathematics on timed, written tests. 

 

Things I question

C has an average to below average IQ. I really suspect (they didn't give mom a full score report) that his profile is one that screams "FSIQ cannot be determined, use GAI". 

 

C is not dyslexic because his comprehension, recall and vocabulary of texts at a 5th grade level is above average, and consistent with his IQ (See above. ) Also, the fact that they're saying that his performance on 5th grade level work is what is important for a 7th grader really bugs me. In addition, I think they're ignoring that C had significant intervention with OG based phonics until...uh, 5th grade-when COVID pushed him first into online school and now into BM school. 

 

They did not assess for dysgraphia, or, as far as I can tell, for any sort of writing disability. 

 

C's writing difficulties are due to ADHD. 

 

C is unable to do basic mathematics beyond a 3rd grade level, and qualifies for services for dyscalculia. My experience is that he could definitely do grade level if not above math-what he couldn't do is write things down, and once math got beyond about a 3rd grade level, needed someone to scribe for him because he wasn't able to do it completely mentally without some intermediate steps involved.  

 

I guess the question is-what can we reasonably ask for? In particular, what are our chances of getting an IEP that won't lose C his classes where he truly excels and enjoys them. (WHich is what M has dealt with in high school-their schedule currently is half math due to testing below grade level coming into 10th grade, and the poor kid absolutely hates school as a result).

Edited April 5, 2022 by Dmmetler

[prairiewindmomma]

Ask for a technology screening: you want to measure how quickly and accurately he writes versus types versus dictates.  In our district he would likely qualify for a laptop with speech to text, oral testing versus written in the classroom, scribe for standardized tests, written notes provided, and a number of other things

With the dyscalculia: access to calculator.  We flat out could not get scribing.  We tried math a few different ways---one was to get his math class provided online using FLVS where he could click multiple choice answers or type in answers.  The problem there was that direct instruction from the videos wasn't sufficient. Your best bet is to prove he can do grade level math by doing a test which offers multiple choice answers to prove the delay is in the handwriting and not in math....but you've got to find a SPED teacher who will help you set up the process. (I was so dang blessed to find ds's math teacher was dysgraphic and dyscalcic herself). As far as the IEP advocacy goes on this one---throw out your theory, ask how they could test that, and talk about appropriate setting loudly.  A kid who isn't getting appropriate instruction due to his disability not being accommodated, blah de blah. This is especially relevant because even community college classes require college algebra for entry level, so this has relevant bearing on his future life. 

The writing difficulties due to adhd---dysgraphia is now known by it's name: disorder of written expression. I would dig into this a bit---how did they come to this determination? I would dollars to donuts bet that there's more going on here. You could always do a trial of meds, and leave this particular bit open in the IEP and call a meeting to further discuss.....but I would really want to see how technology---specifically speech to text---bumps his abilities.  I would also want to know if he has a gap between his ability to read and write nonfiction versus his ability to answer personal questions (how do you feel about this poem, tell me a bit about yourself and your plans for post high school graduation, etc.), and see how his *thinking* is.  

It's completely disgusting that their schedule is half math. That's so not ok.  They need to come up with a different plan for credit recovery. 

Hugs!!

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

They did not assess for dysgraphia, or, as far as I can tell, for any sort of writing disability. 

You have to have really bad motor issues to get help for this. Most places just offer typing.

If it’s a language issue that affects writing, it can be hard to get them to dig in. Schools opt to just not own the right tests to elicit language issues. 

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

C has an average to below average IQ. I really suspect (they didn't give mom a full score report) that his profile is one that screams "FSIQ cannot be determined, use GAI". 

Why didn’t they give mom the full report?

It’s hard to give good advice because I don’t know where in the process the IEP stuff is—it could be that she has signed papers agreeing what ought to be tested, and they let her agree to less than what needed to be done.

I pretty much always tell people to get an advocate these days. The school knows how to set up the game to be able to say no. By the time that happens, parents have often given up their legal rights by saying they agreed to cuz testing that isn’t enough, either because they don’t know how to compel the right testing or because the school uses tests that only turn up issues they want to service.

My favorite book is called something like When the School Says No, How to Get the Yes, and it’s all about beating the school at their own game. Then knowing your rights, which they make harder and harder all the time. The IDEA website and Nolo books help with that, but then you need to map that information onto your state’s plan. Our state offers a book explaining the legal safeguards, etc. The current version looks far more user friendly than when we started into this world, but in reality, it was revised to keep parents from being informed enough to do a good job. The new version is missing nearly all the key details we needed to know in order to get the testing to make a good case.

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

The first IEP meeting for C was today

Backing up here. I'm not sure the terminology is the same in every state, but there's an eval process (and consent forms for that signed) that leads to a team report being written. The team (which includes the parents!) then discusses the diagnoses from each team member and comes to a conclusion on disabling condition and whether an IEP or 504 or warranted. The team then writes the IEP or 504, sometimes then, sometimes later, and meets to discuss, tweak/finalize, and sign.

So the challenge here is first understanding the flow chart of the IEP process and determining where the parent and child are in this and what their specific legal rights are. The things provided in the IEP are driven directly by the data from the evals--they literally cut and paste the report in to state why the services are necessary. This means that everything was won/lost the very first day, the day the parent SIGNED a legally binding "consent to eval" form. On that day the parent agreed to testing and presumably signed a checklist saying every area, including assistive technology btw, had been considered.

Unfortunately, this means the parent, who doesn't know what they don't know, essentially gets cornered sometime into agreeing to incomplete evals. Incomplete evals drive incomplete/dissatisfactory IEPs. Without the evals, there is no evidence to drive the specialized instruction and intervention and therapy the mom thinks should happen. And they are not legally required to go back in the middle of the process, further they aren't even ALLOWED to. They have to complete the process.

So what happens is you evaluate honestly where she is in the process, which is a legally binding progression, and you give her suggestions that fit her reasonable options for the point she is in that process. She has the legal right to sign the IEP stating that she DISAGREES with it. She has the legal right to sign the eval team report (which she probably already received), again saying she DISAGREES with it. And she has the legal right to FILE A DISPUTE. This is basically going nuclear, but in the event the team is non-responsive and she feels they completely missed the mark that's her recourse. She also has the ability to do private evals after this IEP is written and come back with new evidence to compel them to go at it again. However, unfortunately she will have lost the initial time protections you get only on your first time through the process. Hopefully they would be speedy.

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

C has an average to below average IQ.

This would be a reason to file a dispute and compel them to pay for independent 3rd party evals. It sounds like this dc has significant language disabilities that are not being diagnosed. It takes detailed, multi-hour SLP testing to tease apart these language issues, and I'm not actually sure if you can compel the school to pay for THAT much, the amount that it would actually take. My ds functions about where this dc does, and I can tell you I'm getting ready to do more language testing. There is never overkill on language testing and that's probably what needs to happen.

Dyslexia is an unhelpful term here. Reading disability, SLD Reading, is a larger umbrella, and I think it's considered inappropriate to use IQ as a reason to deny service. You can research that because it's very controversial. 

What is this person's financial ability to bring on an advocate? Do they have access to private SLP testing? There are pro bono legal services they're not ready for that yet. I'm just mainly asking out loud what resources they have to make this go forward if the school is cantankerous. Needs private evals for better explanations, then advocacy in the school, then legal advocacy if the school isn't stepping up with the new evidence.

These are the kids who get shoved through the system.

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

they recommend ADHD medication. 

Honestly I'm surprised, as I'm not sure that's legal. They are NOT MDs and cannot recommend or compel meds legally. They have to work with him as he is.

If there's ADHD, sure consider meds. But it seldom stops there, mercy, not in situations like this. There's usually ADHD + anxiety + +. 

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

In particular, what are our chances of getting an IEP that won't lose C his classes where he truly excels and enjoys them. (WHich is what M has dealt with in high school-their schedule currently is half math due to testing below grade level coming into 10th grade, and the poor kid absolutely hates school as a result).

That's a separate question, can't help you there. The parent has to pipe up as an equal member of the IEP team. 

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

C's writing difficulties are due to ADHD. 

So they're writing goals for this? I don't see the harm in pursuing the ADHD angle. Usually there's an unfolding of diagnoses as they get to know the dc. It's idealistic to think everything gets figured out at once, but that takes a lot of data and evals. So what you're really asking is how to protect the dc from the ugliness of inappropriate/unsatisfactory/incomplete placements while they get to know him, sigh. Pull him out? Is that what the parent wants to do or has that ship sailed? It can take a while to work through this. Some people here with kids enrolled have worked very hard to get it smoothed out. It's why I didn't enroll my ds, because basically they were going to let him FAIL so the issues could be OBVIOUS so they would be compelled to intervene. Not acceptable, not in our case.

Remember, she has more legal rights. She can AT ANY TIME, step in with new evidence and compel the team to reconvene. She can be a total squeaky wheel and be in there OVER AND OVER, filing, making requests, getting things considered. 

[Dmmetler]

Realistically, at this point pulling C out isn't an option. Mom needs to work and it's a contentious divorce situation. So we have to make the school work. If we pull anyone at this point, it would be M, where we could outsource to the community college and mom and I could provide support (and honestly I'm not sure that a levelling class at the community college with access to the support center might not be a better fit than what they're getting at the high school)-and dad might not even go for that. 

 

I am thinking this was the meeting to go over the evals they've done at this point. I wish Mom had involved me earlier, but I understand why she didn't (since late December-Late March was survival mode here). 

 

 

[PeterPan]

4 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

So we have to make the school work.

Then you make the best IEP you can using the evals and evidence she has now, and you do the squeaky wheel thing. By enrolling him, you're giving them more time with him to let the issues become apparent. It's not like they just STOP and ignore everything, kwim? They let things unfold and become obvious.

It sounds like she's gotten a lot of information. They're agreeing to math intervention, agreeing he needs EF supports and writing supports. They're telling her to talk with his doctor. Presumably they've screened for anxiety and depression. It seems like she got a lot of good info her to act on. 

As an equal member of the IEP team she's going to need to advocate to keep his schedule looking the way she thinks it ought to look. 

And if he gets in the classes and is having issues, squeaky wheel...

[PeterPan]

If she can get coverage, she can pursue private SLP evals with an SLP who specializes in reading (there is such a thing) or expressive language. That would either set her mind at ease that everything is due to IQ or give her evidence to go back to the school and compel them to do intervention based on the new data. She's just not likely to get those evals through the school, not at this point. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

When you've done what you can, sometimes you just go forward and hope for the best. 

[Dmmetler]

We had the meeting to go over and sign off on the IEP. Mom and I came. Basicslly, the math teacher feels he's enough behind to qualify for resource support (and where SHE places his skills is basically right where he was when COVID stopped him from meeting with me regularly-and since last year's online school was very ineffective for M as well, I can believe that), but that she feels the biggest issues are attention and executive functioning, and that he's essentially getting off track and lost so he's not closing that gap. Where he is performing well is in classes which are more hands on, like STEM lab, band, and PE. The English teacher feels similarly-that his writing difficulties (except for spelling) are as much due to EF, processing speed, and attention as actual writing, and that with typing and standard tools, his vocabulary and ability to construct sentences will carry over. 

 

So, the school is leaning heavily into "talk to your pediatrician about ADHD meds", but is also giving him in class support for EF, processing and attention, as well a period in resource a day (Each grade has a 45 minute period a day specifically for RTI and special Ed services, which becomes an enrichment period for those who don't qualify somewhere. He's been in RTI since failing the first quarter benchmarks), with the plan being to move him into co-taught classes next year (where there are two teachers in the room) and keep resource. 

 

The next two weeks are state testing, and he'll have extended time and breaks, and take the tests spread out over the full two weeks (instead of one week of tests and one week of makeups). They aren't moving him into co-taught classes because it's so close to the end of the year, but he will be starting resource this afternoon. The special Ed teacher for his grade also stated that she is planning to work very strongly next year on self advocacy so that he won't fall through the cracks in high school, because she feels that one reason why it has taken until the last quarter is because he's just plain a nice, well behaved kid and teachers were inclined to give him a lot of flexibility because they liked him (and that they attributed gaps to COVID and homeschooling) but it meant that it was the second half of the year before they really recognized that his gaps were growing, not narrowing. 

 

Overall, I feel that they're trying to help, and I feel fairly good about next year when he's still at the K-8. 

[Terabith]

Honestly, he does sound like a kid for whom ADHD meds might be very effective.  

[Lecka]

That does sound good!  
 

I think Covid has been very disruptive to schools, too, and they can get behind on kids who would have been getting referred all along, and then the more obvious kids have had a backlog and now they are getting to more kids.  If that makes sense.  

[Dmmetler]

10 hours ago, Terabith said:

Honestly, he does sound like a kid for whom ADHD meds might be very effective.  

I think he probably is, and I think mom is coming around to the idea. I also think it helped her to have me able to point out that, yes, I've observed the same things that the teachers have, even when I just had 2-3 kids to deal with, and it's  that he has essentially been in special Ed until March of 2020. 

 

9 hours ago, Lecka said:

That does sound good!  
 

I think Covid has been very disruptive to schools, too, and they can get behind on kids who would have been getting referred all along, and then the more obvious kids have had a backlog and now they are getting to more kids.  If that makes sense.  

I definitely think that COVID contributed in that his struggles and failure in the online school were just plain ignored because so many kids didn't attend regularly, were spaced out, and just generally were unsuccessful. It took getting back into a classroom to be noticed. I do think they expedited evals to get accommodations in place for the state test (this is a district that tests quite well by state standards). To be honest, I was relieved to hear the special Ed teacher state that her feeling was that we were getting things into place for next year, because that was realistic.