s/o: Retiring vs Back to Work: What about Dad?

[regentrude]

We have several threads going about changes mothers make when the homeschool time ends: retiring vs returning to work.
I, too, am in the empty nest stage, am working f/t and having retirement fantasies on a regular basis... but that got me thinking: what about the fathers who have been working all that time? It seems in all these scenarios, it's taken for granted that the guys continue working until retirement age.
Mothers who are done raising children and decide to stay home while the husband continues to work is a very societally accepted path. OTOH, men deciding to quit their jobs when the kids are grown and stay home while the wife works raises eyebrows. Not fair, is it?
 

(To clarify: this isn't personal - just interested in discussion.)

[Melissa Louise]

Mothers who stay at home to raise children are working. They just don't get paid for it. 

Maybe both parties could work p/t, once children are launched,  making things 'fair'. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I think a lot of it has to do with a man who has been working for 30+ Years is going to have much higher earning power than a woman re-entering the workforce at the same point.  There is also not a lot of benefit to retiring early and some people can lose a great deal of money either in future savings or social security by retiring before 67.  Most likely it just makes more sense for the man to continue working due to earning power. Not for every couple, but I think it’s a factor.

[regentrude]

3 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I think a lot of it has to do with a man who has been working for 30+ Years is going to have much higher earning power than a woman re-entering the workforce at the same point.  There is also not a lot of benefit to retiring early and some people can lose a great deal of money either in future savings or social security by retiring before 67.  Most likely it just makes more sense for the man to continue working due to earning power. Not for every couple, but I think it’s a factor.

I get the financial aspect. But I could also imagine a person being totally burned out after 30+ years and finding it grating that it's always made to seem as if it's about the woman's option.

(Of course each couple must run the finances. But I am wondering whether we women don't perpetuate the stereotypical role distribution through tacit assumptions)

Edited April 4, 2022 by regentrude

[kbutton]

3 minutes ago, regentrude said:

But I could also imagine a person being totally burned out after 30+ years and finding it grating that it's always made to seem as if it's about the woman's option.

I feel kind of bad about this because I don't know if I'll work in my field again. I kind of hope so. I put my DH through 6 semesters of post college schooling (grad school equivalent). He would not be able to do what he's doing if I had not, but that's not exactly like 18+ years of me staying home.

I do want some kind of job because I think it would make things easier when we have a kid in college, or we want money for extras. It would be easier for me to work full-time if my DH had a different schedule. The kind of job he works in within his field makes it much harder to have two incomes with kids home (crappy schedule), and it makes it harder for the second spouse to be tied to lousy vacation prospects (I can't imagine that's improved since I've been out of the job market). He doesn't seem inclined to choose a different type of schedule, so I feel less bad than I would otherwise.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

10 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I get the financial aspect. But I could also imagine a person being totally burned out after 30+ years and finding it grating that it's always made to seem as if it's about the woman's option.

(Of course each couple must run the finances. But I am wondering whether we women don't perpetuate the stereotypical role distribution through tacit assumptions)

Oh, I can too, but I think probably most couples would choose to keep the highest income flow.  I don’t know the exact age, but if I withdraw early from my 401K, I have pretty stiff tax penalties that would prevent me from considering retiring too early.  Now if a woman can walk into a decent paying career and the couple can easily live off her income, I think there would be more couples who’d choose the man to stay home after 30 some years and being burnt out.

[JustEm]

I think about this a lot when I am thinking about retirement plans.  Ultimately, my aim is for both dh and I to be able to either work part time or that he is able to move back to his passion as a martial arts instructor.  That was his career for the first 13 years of our marriage and also 6 years before that.  So, when that was no longer working for our family he switched careers and while he really likes his job there is something to be said for working in something you are passionate about.  

Right now, dh's 401k is set to make us comfortable at retirement. And all the money I bring into the family is invested in our future so that he doesn't have to stay at that company until retirement. Our mortgage will be paid off by the time the kids are out of the house so that will leave us tons of options for both of us doing what we want to earn money.

Of course, something could happen to change all those plans. But that is the plan and it is going to have to be something really big for us to pull money from our future goals. We are also prioritizing our future over college savings.  We'll help how we can but we aren't jeopardizing our future.

[teachermom2834]

I knew a couple where the wife homeschooled, tended home, cooked, did all the housewife things. She worked herself to the bone while her husband earned. And he constantly made her feel small and pampered.

He always told her when the kids were grown he was going to stay home and it was going to be her turn to work. I thought he was joking. He was serious. 

He was a jerk. The kids grew up. She left his butt. 

She does work now. But she doesn’t have to put up with him anymore. 
 

Those were the only people I knew that for the scenario in the OP. My dh actually likes to work. His work has not exhausted him. He feels challenged and fulfilled and he has advanced in his career and has no desire to give it up to recreate. He is fine with me making his life easier by picking up more slack around the house now that my kids don’t need me so much. I have so little earning power he is just as happy to have the home support as what my small paycheck would be. But I realize my dh liking work is not standard.
 

 

[Arcadia]

My MIL income is lower than my FIL because he has a high school diploma while she has an elementary school education. She did go back to work full time when my FIL was forced to retire at 75 years old. 
When we are empty nesters in the near future, it would take years for me to catch up to my husband’s pay if I land a job. It would make more sense for both of us to work full time to have more retirement savings than for my husband to quit and can’t put money into retirement savings on my lower pay. 
 

ETA: My dad has the pension plan and his health benefits continues when he retire, while my mom has a lower pay, no pension and worse health. It does not make sense for my dad to quit and lose his pension while my mom continue working full time and have her health deteriorate faster.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Arcadia

[Bootsie]

I think a lot can depend on age differences.  DH retired the year after DS finished high school; I am still working.  DH is 13 years older than I am. DH could begin collecting Social Security and other retirement benefits that I would not be able to collect.  

My aunt continued working for several years after her husband retired (although their kids had been out of the house for a number of years).  He worked in a state job where the pay/retirement was structured so that it was in no way cost effective for him to remain working.  She had several years to qualify for her full retirement benefit.  

[LMD]

I presumed the stay at home wife would still 'work' doing all the things that ease the husband's ability to work and come home to a comfortable life. Probably would also take care of his parents.

[lewelma]

Once my youngest went to university in February, my dh moved to part time work. Now both of us are part time. But I think that the tax and health care ramifications are very different in NZ than in the USA. 

[wintermom]

Hey, if the dad has an excellent pension from the military, for example, then he can retire early. I play tennis with a ton of retired men and women. A lot of times the man goes back to work part-time at something different than his original job - not because they need the money, but because they like to stay busy. 

In my case, my going back to work full-time has taken a big burden off of dh's shoulders. We've paid off our debts, and we'll probably both keep working for another 10 years or so, if possible. Dh has a ton of vacation time banked up, so we can do some travelling while we're still working. The health and dental insurance benefits by working full-time is really nice to have, so one of us working full-time will be a bonus. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by wintermom

[Lecka]

My husband has retired a lot earlier than we ever really expected.  It’s a long story.  (Edit — wrt to pp by chance — yes there is a military pension involved.) 
 

However — he would never want me to work while he stayed home.  Never.  That is not how he is, so it’s not something that would ever come up.

 

I agree it is a “traditional arrangement” but in fact it would be his preference.  
 

I think it’s fair to say it might not be fair to husbands, but I don’t think it’s a fair assumption to make to say that it’s not what many husbands would prefer.  

 

I have known couples where the husband retired earlier because he was older than the wife.  I think that is pretty accepted.  But I also know couples where it seems like the husband is keeping a foot in the door only because his wife isn’t retired.  There is a couple I know right now where the wife is still working and the husband retired but in a way that he could immediately contract at his previous job, and his wife just thinks it would be better if he really retired because the contracting had turned out to be unsatisfactory in various ways, but he doesn’t want to quit doing it while she is working.  
 

For couples where this is not the situation of course I think it is a consideration!  

Edited April 4, 2022 by Lecka

[katilac]

55 minutes ago, regentrude said:

We have several threads going about changes mothers make when the homeschool time ends: retiring vs returning to work.
I, too, am in the empty nest stage, am working f/t and having retirement fantasies on a regular basis... but that got me thinking: what about the fathers who have been working all that time? It seems in all these scenarios, it's taken for granted that the guys continue working until retirement age.
Mothers who are done raising children and decide to stay home while the husband continues to work is a very societally accepted path. OTOH, men deciding to quit their jobs when the kids are grown and stay home while the wife works raises eyebrows. Not fair, is it?
 

(To clarify: this isn't personal - just interested in discussion.)

Well, I'm going on the assumption that the wives who talk about it in conversation have also already talked about it with their husbands, lol. They're not necessarily taking it for granted. 

To the second part: Men staying home when the kids are grown and gone isn't quite the same as women staying home with babies and kids! It's not taking turns if only one of the turns involves diapers, tantrums, and entirely too much stickiness. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by katilac
spelling iz hard

[Clemsondana]

I can't imagine my husband retiring - he likes his work.  We know a guy who said that he wanted his wife to go back to work once the kids were (in school, out of the house...don't remember the situation) so that it would be fair.  My husband doesn't see it that way.  He's well aware that my willingness to work very-part-time (teaching 1 class at a community college or teaching at a homeschool co-op while my kids attend classes) has made it possible for him to travel whenever needed, often with little warning.  He's alwasy been confident that he doesn't need to worry because I've got it covered, although when he's home he does things that he sees to do and he's there if I tell him that he's needed.  This arrangement has been very good for his career.  He probably wouldn't be thrilled if I quit doing the household stuff that I currently do so that I could sit in the hammock, but as long as I'm doing something useful - managing the house, doing very part-time teaching, volunteering (I'll probably add more hours once the kids are grown), helping people in some way (the kids, aging parents, or some volunteer situation)...any of the above, really, then he's good with the idea that as a couple we're both doing something productive.  He's doing work that he mostly likes and bringing in income, and I"m making it possible for him to work without worrying about other life things and also doing something useful for the community.  Neither of us aspire to retire to the lake or beach and have nothing to do.  While we might enjoy more vacations, we both want to do useful things until we wear out, but what we do that's useful doesn't look the same.  

[kristin0713]

DH’s very good friend is a SAHD. He met his wife when they were both in the military. She ended up going to med school and becoming a high ranking military doctor (lieutenant colonel I think) while he stayed home with the kids. So it’s  flipped - she’s worked her whole life to get to this point and has a successful career. It would make no financial sense for them to switch roles right now. I think that’s just the way it is when one person works their way up the ladder, whether it is the mom or dad. Likewise, I could not support my family financially the way DH can. If he told me he was burned out and wanted to retire, well, we’d have to come up with another plan I suppose because I just couldn’t do it. And my professional background is teaching which I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole right now anyway. 

[1234]

I’ve recently gone back to school in the hopes I can also go back to work soon so it isn’t all on Dh. He’s always been a very involved husband and father even while working outside the home and I don’t think it’s fair for me to expect him to just keep doing it all while my role has changed drastically.  It honestly isn’t that much for me to keep doing the stuff I’ve always done minus taking care of kids. Dh also was a stay home parent in the beginning while I worked so it’s not like he hasn’t done it all. I can do more so I plan to. I didn’t always feel this way but as we get older I don’t want it all to fall on dh. 

[Jaybee]

Yeah, same as others. Though my schooling is essentially the same as dh's, his earning power is a lot more. And he enjoys working. I'm pretty sure that if he is physically and mentally able, even in retirement, he will find something worthwhile and possibly financially beneficial to do. Whereas I enjoy staying home and having some hobbies and a volunteer gig or two. 

[katilac]

16 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Once my youngest went to university in February, my dh moved to part time work. Now both of us are part time. But I think that the tax and health care ramifications are very different in NZ than in the USA. 

Yes, health care is the killer in the states. It very much complicates retiring early. 

[TrulySusan]

My youngest graduates high school this year. I have gone back to school with the plan to go back to work after I graduate this summer. My DH, who is nearly 20 years older, plans to retire about a year after I re enter the work force. 
I think we are both looking forward to it. He is great at house stuff and a super chef  and will be great in that role. He’s also exhausted from his high demand medical job. The money will work out ok because we have saved a lot for retirement- my job is more for insurance than anything else.

[ScoutTN]

My Dh has very good benefits which we need. (Dh has a neuro-vascular condition: brain bleeds, brain surgeries etc.) Even if I could earn as much or more than he does (extremely unlikely), chances of comparable health coverage are slim to none. 

I need to work because we have less than enough saved for retirement. We will both work until we actually, physically and mentally cannot. 
 

 

[1234]

27 minutes ago, LMD said:

I presumed the stay at home wife would still 'work' doing all the things that ease the husband's ability to work and come home to a comfortable life. Probably would also take care of his parents.

Dh has two of his six siblings actually fighting over who gets to take care of his parents at the moment. That will definitely not fall to me. I lost my own dad unexpectedly 22 years ago and my sister has already said she will be the one that takes care of my mom. I started to feel lazy only doing those ‘work’ things that make it a bit easier for Dh. He can actually do those things and I can work so he doesn’t feel solely responsible for us (which I think is healthier for him long term). 

[Loowit]

It was the general agreement when DH and I got married.  I would stay home with the kids and he would work, but we never really talked about when they were grown and out of the house.  But I was a stay at home wife for several years before children came along.  DH was fine with that, especially since it gave me the opportunity to volunteer.

However, I do know of a number of couples that the husband is retiring earlier than the wife.  My BIL will retire early, which is pretty common in his career field, but my sister will continue to work for quite a few more years.  She has worked since she graduated college and was never a stay at home mom.

My brother can't retire early or he will lose a lot of his pension/retirement funds because that is how his job works.  SIL worked up until their second child was born, but while she could likely go back to the same sort of work, she would not be making near as much money as my brother.  I have no idea if she will go back to work after their youngest graduates high school.  But it would not be feasible for her to work and my brother to retire financially.

I do not plan to go into the workforce when youngest graduates in a couple years.  Although I have an AA degree, I have never had a career and my earning potential will never be close to that of DH.  Plus, if he retired now we would lose a lot of retirement savings ability, and all the really good benefits his job offers.  I don't think he sees it as unfair to him.  He loves his job, although retirement is something he looks forward to, I think he would miss the mental challenges that his job provides him.

So I guess I am "retiring" earlier than him, but I plan to keep busy with lots of things, one of the bigger ones it to be available to take care of our aging parents as their health starts to fail.  My working siblings will not have that ability as easily.  I can also volunteer and give back to the community.  I am not just going to be a freeloader off DH.

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

We have several threads going about changes mothers make when the homeschool time ends: retiring vs returning to work.
I, too, am in the empty nest stage, am working f/t and having retirement fantasies on a regular basis... but that got me thinking: what about the fathers who have been working all that time? It seems in all these scenarios, it's taken for granted that the guys continue working until retirement age.
Mothers who are done raising children and decide to stay home while the husband continues to work is a very societally accepted path. OTOH, men deciding to quit their jobs when the kids are grown and stay home while the wife works raises eyebrows. Not fair, is it?
 

(To clarify: this isn't personal - just interested in discussion.)

Probably because most men haven't been working for 30 years at a job that requires them to work evenings, weekends, and holidays and to always be on-call that entire time.  I don't know any women who stay home and just stop working there.  I get your point, and it's a good one, but women seem to be always working no matter where they land. I don't know any woman at any stage of life who doesn't do any work.  Even on our days off, when we say we 'did nothing' most women have worked.  We're just USED to it.  I get why people are tired.  I think my DH is probably more helpful than most, but I still do a whole lot more at home even when he's not at work.  Also, he does 100% of his job from a chair.  I'm not implying that he doesn't work.  He does.  He works hard, but hard is relative.

[teachermom2834]

My dh, even while staying with the same company, has a job that is constantly changing. He is literally changing positions (has been in current position a year and is interviewing for two different positions in the next two weeks and that is typical) regularly and within his position the industry is changing, coworkers change, technology changes, regulations change. He is constantly challenged and learning and he thrives on it. It isn’t easy or relaxing but it is a different kind of strain than cleaning up the same kitchen counter for the umpteenth time or trying to figure out what the heck to make for dinner or…back in the day…tying how many shoes how many times a day. When I had a van full of littles sometimes I would wonder how many car seats I had bucked and unbuckled in my lifetime. 
 

Dh has a challenging job but the level of burnout is different for sure. We have slightly different wear on the treads 25 years in. 

[katilac]

1 minute ago, teachermom2834 said:

It isn’t easy or relaxing but it is a different kind of strain than cleaning up the same kitchen counter for the umpteenth time or trying to figure out what the heck to make for dinner or…back in the day…tying how many shoes how many times a day. When I had a van full of littles sometimes I would wonder how many car seats I had bucked and unbuckled in my lifetime. 
 

dh and I used to play a joking game of Who Had the Worst Day? and, if the days were roughly equal, I would pull my trump card and ask, but did you wipe anyone's butt? and he never had, so I would 'win.' 

[rebcoola]

My dad retired from teaching at 25 yrs same year I graduated high school. Younger teachers have to stay longer to get retirement.  He didn't stop working altogether but he was burnt out on dealing with school burcreacy.  He worked part-time and my mom continued full-time until they bought a business.

[YaelAldrich]

This question is apropros to my family. My husband, a full professor in a R1 university, is going on sabbatical this coming academic year. That means he will do his own research projects and mentor his grad students but none of the usual faculty meetings, support work, etc. I'm sure he will be at home most of the time (as he has been since covid when he's not teaching on campus). I told him I'm a little worried he's going to feel less busy and outwardly focused than before and I'm a drop anxious that that lack of busyness (is that a word?) will translate into him bugging my son (homeschooled) and me to (his) early death. He loves his job and I could never ever get close to his salary and benefits if I rejoined the work force. I can get any advanced degree his university gives for free. Tune in the next year or so and find out what happens to the ALDRICH FAMILY!

[prairiewindmomma]

We've talked about it. Finances aside, dh simply has no interest into stepping into the work that I currently do---navigating doctor appointments & insurance with kids, managing shopping and meals, home educating Youngest, cleaning, and coordinating all of the other aspects of home life. We aren't going to be empty nesters until we are well into our 60s given the age spread of our children, so there isn't a time pre-retirement where active parenting of minor children isn't also going to be on the plate.

He likes the idea in theory, but when we talked about the actual work load, I was very blunt that I would be stepping into 60-70 hour weeks just like he does now---and that meant I would not be doing the primary household load also.  He has a brother who is a house husband (wife is the earner, husband is primary caregiver and household operator) and I have several in my family who are the same.  It's not without precedent in our family culture.  I had surgery around that time and he had to step into my shoes for a couple of weeks and it became very clear to him that what he wanted was retirement without obligations, and that's just a pipe dream.

 

[Clemsondana]

@YaelAldrichMy husband had a job that gave employees 4-6 weeks of sabbatical every so many years.  The first one was eye-opening.  He happily slept in for a few days, and we enjoyed 2 great trips.  But...he's used to being busy, having details to fuss over, and having people to manage.  He'd be helpful by starting a load of laundry (something he does sometimes anyway, but he had more time to do those sorts of things) and say 'We're low on detergent - I'll go get more'.  I'd reply that we had enough for 5+ loads and I was going to the grocery store tomorrow and the laundry was caught up so we were fine.  He'd fuss and fret and end up going to the store for detergent that would sit unopened for 4-5 days because we didn't need it urgently.  My dad, now retired for a few years, does the same thing.  Mom and I both find ourselves saying 'We've managed this chore for 20-50 years - have we ever run out of laundry detergent or clean clothes?'.  🙂  

[chiguirre]

7 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

I told him I'm a little worried he's going to feel less busy and outwardly focused than before and I'm a drop anxious that that lack of busyness (is that a word?) will translate into him bugging my son (homeschooled) and me to (his) early death. 

Welcome to my world. Dh is a partner in a mid-size management consulting firm. He turned in the keys to their downtown office on March 31 because no one has set foot in it except to check to make sure it's okay since March 2020. His travel is finally picking up a bit but he's home much more than he has ever been before Covid. We've adjusted but he does get on my sons' nerves sometimes. They want to come home from their day programs and chill out and he wants to talk to them which requires some serious mental effort on their part. They've been known to be way too loud while dh is on a work zoom with a client. I've been stretched thin trying to keep the peace. We're all still alive and, for the most part, getting along fine but it was an adjustment. We were lucky that Covid made adjusting to our new household normal part of the broader adjustments.

Now that dh works from home, I doubt he'll retire early so we'll keep on with this arrangement for another 10 years or so.

[madteaparty]

I would be thrilled if DH decided to retire soon, I have fantasies of sailing around the world, etc. alas. ETA that I find it amusing (not in this thread, just generally in my world) that it’s “feminists” that insist women carry exactly their “fair” share or whatever, even if that means running ragged and basically being horrible at all the things. I really like my very traditional arrangement and it has given me freedoms not really available when you insist you split everything 50/50. Which is a bit stupid when you think of it…

edit: yes I know it’s privilege etc. obviously any choice is privilege. I can’t believe to this day we get excoriated for not doing math as to who’s washing how many dishes for how many years…. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by madteaparty

[Faith-manor]

I know of several women who went back to work when their husbands retired early. My uncle retired when he had his thirty years in at the state hospital and could draw his pension. He drove my aunt nuts! LOL, I think she lasted one week with him under foot before she hit the pavement looking for a job, and then she worked 15 years before retiring.

My car insurance agent went back to work as soon as her husband retired from teaching. She is enjoying it, and again, a couple not suited to spending that many hours a day together with the kids grown. They do not have any mutual interests or activities.

My grandfather had a major heart attack and had to retire at 52. My grandmother, 46, went back into the work force and stayed until she was 62. They had an excellent relationship at the time, but really could not afford to be without his income so soon. He gardened and cooked, simply because he wasn't particularly good at it, but still he usually managed to produce something reasonably edible when she got home from work.

My friend C, like me is four years younger than her husband. He is retiring in four years because the pressure is amping up and he has developed a health issue. She is trying to find a job that provides health insurance so she has coverage. She does have a PHD, and is published in her field, and very happy to manage a lab, so I think she will find something.

I have been back at it since youngest graduated four years ago, and also back in college very part time in aerospace engineering. I am not planning on finishing an aerospace degree, just was finishing a minor in science to tack onto my music degrees, and studying aerospace for the fun of it. I am mostly involved in music - where I can because the pandemic gutted my regular fine arts job - but I do have an aerospace education event in the summer that I was hired to coordinate. If I could find something with insurance and our 401K was where we wanted it to be, I would be happy for dh to get out of the rat race. But he has amazing employer matching, and that is a lot of retirement money to give up. My goal is to have something with insurance by the time he is 62 so he can relax, however I don't know if that will be possible. I have considered taking a 4H extension program director job. It would come with benefits. It is also a high stress job because lots of politics, and well, I hate to say it but a lot of high drama parents. We will see.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Faith-manor

[Clarita]

My husband had a "high earning" wife for a while (one year where I actually earned more than he did - he is a little bit older than me so makes sense that he makes more). Having lived that life he prefers having a stay at home mom for a wife. Also he does plan to retire after the kids are done with college, or before if finances work out for that.

Although when the kids are gone I'd hope to be able to get a job again, in my field. I wouldn't mind starting entry level again. I really did like my job. 

[Grace Hopper]

2 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Probably because most men haven't been working for 30 years at a job that requires them to work evenings, weekends, and holidays and to always be on-call that entire time.  I don't know any women who stay home and just stop working there.  I get your point, and it's a good one, but women seem to be always working no matter where they land. I don't know any woman at any stage of life who doesn't do any work.  Even on our days off, when we say we 'did nothing' most women have worked.  We're just USED to it.  I get why people are tired.  I think my DH is probably more helpful than most, but I still do a whole lot more at home even when he's not at work.  Also, he does 100% of his job from a chair.  I'm not implying that he doesn't work.  He does.  He works hard, but hard is relative.

Thank you for saying this! I have been on 24/7 duty nearly non-stop for closing in on 30 years now. As a full-time family life manager I do not earn overtime pay but you can darn well be sure I’m taking all the comp time I’ve earned!😂

To be honest, though, I will probably work full-time again for a couple of years, to pay more into retirement funds l and have some fun money to travel. I don’t think I will do that with just one employer, I don’t really want to go to work for somebody who’s going to be a micromanaging boss. I am trying to be creative about multiple streams of income that will give me flexibility to travel and volunteer and pursue some of the creative things that I’ve had to set on the back burner for years. 
 

DH isn’t ready to retire, he can’t do it yet without losing some benefits. And we would drive each other crazy both at home all the time, we need to be a couple of years post pandemic before we’re back to full time togetherness. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[Eos]

1 hour ago, Grace Hopper said:

full time togetherness. 

Dh and I have had a business together for 30 years, 24/7 togetherness! 

We've split it roughly at he does 2/3 at the business while I am a full time homeschooling mom plus do 1/3 at the business.  The social/emotional/logistical labor I've done for our family is vastly more than his.  There are moments, like in my s/o financial planner thread, that I think I just don't want to have to be responsible for a thing like planning for retirement but the way our lives have been organized it's more in my pile of logistical/caregiving than his hands-on work, so I'm going to outsource it. I don't have the bandwidth to learn it and do all the other stuff I do.

I think my pile is harder than his but he probably doesn't see it that way.  I can imagine he would like to retire and putter even more, but it's unlikely either of us ever will. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Eos

[Laura Corin]

Yes. Husband, now he is past the stress of being made redundant and not managing to find another job, is thankful that we have swapped roles. He does most of the household organising, shopping and more than half of the cooking. He also does a lot of the familial emotional heavy lifting. I work full time, plan to drop back to part time at 61, then work until 67.

[Ausmumof3]

I haven’t read the responses. Most current surveys/studies done show that women do a much larger share of unpaid domestic work and care work even when working full time. What I see with retired sahm situations is that both couples work equally hard - one does all of the domestic stuff while the other does income. Both halves have more available free time.

What I have also seen is a couple of guys that did assume their homeschooling spouse had been taking it easy all those years and got sick of it and either split or quit working and the wife picked up the slack. After pretty much doing 100pc of housework and childcare work for all the years. Then retrain and go back and early the income. 
 

I think it could be a problem in couples where care roles and domestic tasks are either really evenly split or where their life is set up in a way to leave the work of the sahm partner really small but I don’t see many doing that. Mostly I see the post homeschooling mums either work part time, do foster care, do elder care in a very personal way, grow fruit and veges or run mini farms. I think homeschooling is so mentally challenging that many post homeschool parents are quite restless looking for something equally challenging and fulfilling not really inclined to sit around.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[Carrie12345]

We discuss our options together, no assumptions. Well, I guess there are technically some assumptions while we’re noodling away on an idea before we bring it up, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.

Dh is a workaholic, though he’s gotten better. We’ve hashed out all his career decisions over the years together, with the pros and cons, and then me respecting and backing up his decisions with moral support and budgeting wizardry. Just a few months ago, we made a plan to have him walk away and do his own entrepreneurial thing, but he changed his mind in the end. I’m kind of bummed, but he’s the one who’s living it each day, so I want him to feel good about what he’s doing.

My goal, as the partner who handles the money,  is to enable him to retire early if he so chooses, but I don’t think he’s likely to choose to.  And I have run the numbers on adding my income potential, but they don’t push the needle a noticeable amount.  If I started working TODAY and invested that money at a conservative rate (because I’m a chicken), he could be out 2 years sooner.  But I’m still homeschooling an 11yo, so today isn’t going to happen. And he’s not going to want me to put ds in public middle school, and then high school, so that he can have the option to retire 2 years extra early.

If it did make a marked difference, and he did want to be home as early as possible, we would come up with a different plan.

I don’t know how it works in other relationships, but I assume people make decisions together. What’s more fair than that?

[Carrie12345]

7 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

has made it possible for him to travel whenever needed, often with little warning.  He's alwasy been confident that he doesn't need to worry because I've got it covered

This has been a huge factor in our arrangement.  When we were first married and I had a toddler (I was 23), and then was pregnant back to back, I was seriously struggling to understand how my job/school/career options “should” be taking a back seat. Women are supposed to be able to have it all!!! When I initially accepted staying home, I meant for it to be temporary. But the travel and emergency hours grew in line with his flexibility and promotions. Not enough for me to work and hire an odd-hours nanny, though!  I eventually encouraged him to take the opportunities he earned, with both of us knowing I could hold down the fort, no matter when he might have to get on a plane or head into the cities.

I didn’t make the decision to restrict my earning potential by myself. I actually resisted it for a time. Several times!
And it still doesn’t mean that I *won’t work. I have some time, and the support, to figure out what I’m going to do.

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t know how it works in other relationships, but I assume people make decisions together. What’s more fair than that?

Yes, of course. Or at least in any reasonably healthy relationship that's the way things work.

Every time we discussed whether I would or wouldn't seek paid employment it involved lots and lots of joint discussions. Nothing was ever one sided. Our decisions were always made based on what both of us felt was most beneficial to our entire family first, then what the two of us preferred as individuals.

I know of several situations where the wife works and the DH stays home, and one is where the DH has decided to leave the work force early, pre-SS age. I don't know of anyone who raises eyebrows at any of those situations. I guess some people probably say or think "that's a little different," but AFAIK people just assume it's what the couple has mutually decided on.

[Clemsondana]

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

This has been a huge factor in our arrangement.  When we were first married and I had a toddler (I was 23), and then was pregnant back to back, I was seriously struggling to understand how my job/school/career options “should” be taking a back seat. Women are supposed to be able to have it all!!! When I initially accepted staying home, I meant for it to be temporary. But the travel and emergency hours grew in line with his flexibility and promotions. Not enough for me to work and hire an odd-hours nanny, though!  I eventually encouraged him to take the opportunities he earned, with both of us knowing I could hold down the fort, no matter when he might have to get on a plane or head into the cities.

I didn’t make the decision to restrict my earning potential by myself. I actually resisted it for a time. Several times!
And it still doesn’t mean that I *won’t work. I have some time, and the support, to figure out what I’m going to do.

Yeah - it's funny - my husband always assumed that I'd work.  We both have PhDs, and he came from a family where his mom worked as a teacher.  But, when I talked with my postdoc boss about possibly working part-time so that I could teach part-time and research part-time, she said that it wasn't really possible with the way that postdoc funding worked.  She wasn't just being difficult - it's an odd system.  Realizing that I didn't like the research environment as a lifestyle choice, I decided that adjucnt teaching would be more family-friendly.  I taught 1-2 weekend classes while husband was home to watch the kids.  He would have been fine with sitters, nannies, whatever I wanted.  But, once I decided that I mostly wanted to be home to take care of the kids myself, we discuscussed how that would mean that he didn't need to limit his schedule nearly as much.  If I worked, even with a sitter, he'd be trying to avoid major international travel around when I had a critical presentation just in case I needed backup, for instance. Both of us would have had careers, but neither would have been as high-powered if we were worrying about splitting childcare needs.  As it is, he does all he can to schedule around activities like ball games or violin concerts that he wants to attend.  But, during the months when those things aren't happening (the majority of the year), he is always available for work.  And he could take early morning or late night calls with people on other continents, knowing that I'd manage bedtime or preschool drop-off or whatever.  It looks different now that the kids are big and one is driving, but for years I'm not sure who had the more tiring schedule when he was flying around.  At this point, I've built a life with useful, mostly unpaid, activities, and I'll probably expand some of them as time allows.  

Edited April 4, 2022 by Clemsondana

[Katy]

I know three families that had the dad stay home with the kids when they were little. In all three the women were much higher earners and were happier at work. All three had trouble finding reliable daycare and nannies.  

DH has a retirement number in mind and plans on retirement when we reach it. 

[Soror]

Dad is in year 4 of 6 of getting his BS degree at age 45 so we can have more money and security (his idea). My previous degree was SW, so no way I could come close to replicating what he makes/will make. According to calculators we are in track to have enough to retire in 10 years but dh is worried about health insurance. He says he's going to work until he's 65. I don't know what I'll be doing after the kids are off. Dh wants to travel so he doesn't want me in a job where I'll not have much time off (I agree I'd prefer something PT or a lot of flexibility). At this point, I'm waiting until the kids either graduate or go to PS (I'd love to school them all the way through but who knows). I've thought about doing some training/schooling for another career to maybe make more money but I'd have to put good thought into whether it was worth it. Ideally to me dh would retire in 10 yrs and maybe do consulting work with plenty of time off for travel. Too many variables at this point to know. He's going on to finish his degree, we're socking away what we can. As different circumstances change we reevaluate and discuss what is the best option.  

[JennyD]

deleted

Edited April 4, 2022 by JennyD

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

I know three families that had the dad stay home with the kids when they were little. In all three the women were much higher earners and were happier at work. All three had trouble finding reliable daycare and nannies.  

DH has a retirement number in mind and plans on retirement when we reach it. 

Yes. I forgot to mention up top that my father in law retired at 55 when his brother came down with brain cancer and was dying. His sister in law was pretty unable to care for herself (brother was very controlling and she had been married off at sixteen so she didn't drive, had never gone grocery shopping alone, had never managed family finances, you name it). His nephew was getting married and expecting a child. So he discussed it with mom in law who was a professor of nursing, and she felt that they could afford for him to retire to care for brother and help sister in law get on her feet while she kept working. Within a couple of years, his parents' health tanked, and they moved next door. So with a widow to assist plus elderly parents and someone needing to coordinate everything, it just wasn't feasible to go back to work unless help could be hired, and help for two homes would have cost enough that he wouldn't have been making much since his former job working at a non-profit was not high pay.

[mommyoffive]

4 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

This has been a huge factor in our arrangement.  When we were first married and I had a toddler (I was 23), and then was pregnant back to back, I was seriously struggling to understand how my job/school/career options “should” be taking a back seat. Women are supposed to be able to have it all!!! When I initially accepted staying home, I meant for it to be temporary. But the travel and emergency hours grew in line with his flexibility and promotions. Not enough for me to work and hire an odd-hours nanny, though!  I eventually encouraged him to take the opportunities he earned, with both of us knowing I could hold down the fort, no matter when he might have to get on a plane or head into the cities.

I didn’t make the decision to restrict my earning potential by myself. I actually resisted it for a time. Several times!
And it still doesn’t mean that I *won’t work. I have some time, and the support, to figure out what I’m going to do.

This has been for us too.  I covered everything so that dh could work whatever hours, stay late, not worry about appointments, sick kids, travel last minute and go international whenever.  I think the weight off of him of me caring for everything for the kids allowed him to go further in his career.  His income has quadruple what it was when our first kid was born.    

I think if I would have stayed in teaching my income wouldn't have matched that.  Although one of my degrees was in that, I was really not wanting to teach in a public school and had started liking the business world so who knows what would have happened.  But I honestly don't know if we would have been financially better off.    I would think we would have both been limited by taking care of the kids and not be able to just do whatever at work because we would have to pick up kids.  Daycare for 5.  In reality we wouldn't have had that many because of money and how sick I got in pg.  But also I doubt we would have had the bandwidth to support 5 kids and 2 full time jobs.

I think right now we would be ok if we would have had the 5 kids because I am sure we would have not paid for care as the oldest 2 could have just watched the other ones after school.  But then they wouldn't be able to do things.  

Edited April 4, 2022 by mommyoffive

[ikslo]

I never stopped working to homeschool. We made it work. My husband worked in commercial printing making decent money, but it takes a toll on one’s body. The plan all along was to use my earning potential (college grad) to get to a point where I could be the primary breadwinner and he could retire and be the stay at home parent. We were able to move to Florida when I got promoted. He worked for a few more years then “retired”. He’s now actually working as a FT manager at a pizza place near the beach.  It was supposed to be PT.

[Faith-manor]

Off topic, but it gripes my cheese a little at how our system is set up. My generation has to work to 67 to draw full SS and everyone has to work to 65 because of health insurance. But, 401K draws can be made at 59.5 without tax penalty. Why not start Medicare at 59.5 with a premium like $300-400 a month? It gets people into the system sooner and while not as sick as elderly folks and older senior citizens tend to be so the money would help shore up the system, and when people retire they free up higher paying jobs, usually, for middle aged folks who have been waiting on promotions, who then free up jobs for the younger ones, who free up jobs for the newbies. For that matter, why not have a buy in to Medicare even sooner. Years of younger, healthier persons paying into the system is a big help. Employers can offer Cadillac policies that have perks like "providing a private duty nurse" or whatever in order to woo or keep high value employees they need. Maybe the people against universal healthcare would get on board because people have to pay to get into the system. (Even though they pay now, every single week, called taxes.)

As for dh, he isn't the kind to let the grass grow under his feet. He definitely needs to end his high stress, long hours job at 62 if we can possibly manage the insurance issue, but he plans on opening a side business with his woodworking. He is an amazing cabinet maker and loves woodworking. So he will earn some money on the side and continue working just on a schedule of his own making, doing something really enjoyable.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Faith-manor