Inheritance deception…please help me decide the best way to handle this

[Indigo Blue]

Please don’t quote 

deleted

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Indigo Blue

[cjzimmer1]

Are you sure there is a will?  Or could this be another lie told to you?

Is someone appointed to be executor of the estate?  As long as that person knows there is a will, I'd leave everything else alone.  Yes it would be great to have more open communication but at the same time it's probably not worth dealing with the wrath of the parent if they chose to lash out about knowledge being shared.  Personally I would just pretend I know nothing and do nothing.

[prairiewindmomma]

Do you have access to the original will? Really, until she is dead and gone and the will is accessible, all of this is kind of a moot point.

There is no un-drama-ing the will issue. She could burn it, make twenty new and different ones, or do any other kind of nonsense between now and the grave. (I'm living this dynamic right now.)  It doesn't matter that she lies to you, because you know she does.

There is no point in trying to prove to a NPD that something is true because truth doesn't matter to them. It's all about the facade they create for themselves.

Don't spend mental energy on worrying about the will. It is not worth it.

[SKL]

I'm confused.  Are you saying there are living children but the parent says everything is being left to grandchildren without a will?  I don't think that's legal.  It may vary by state, but I think generally, in absence of a will, an unmarried or widowed parent's assets pass first to their children.

And who are you considering telling about the will?  I don't think you need to tell anyone until the person dies.  IMO the will of a living person is an extremely private matter.  If you happen to know what a parent's will says, I don't know how you know it, but I don't think you should share that knowledge.

The thing to do is get with the attorneys upon parent's death to make sure you have the most current will, and get it probated.

[Sneezyone]

What kind of relationship do you want with your sib when this is over? Strained, comfy, or non-existent. That dictates my answer.

[SKL]

Also, the ownership of a house doesn't have to pass at death.  It can be transferred while living and you certainly don't need a will to do it.  Same goes for retirement accounts, bank accounts, and just about everything else.  These could all be going to Person X and it could still be true that there's no will.

[SKL]

Oh wait, maybe GC means golden child ....

Well if so, most of what I wrote still holds.

[Ethel Mertz]

I’m confused. Has NPD parent already died?

And, does GC refer to golden child or grand child?

[Katy]

Forget about it until she dies. Seriously. My sometimes loving & sometimes seems like BPD mother has pulled this when I refuse to let her be in charge of things in our lives that are none of her business. Sometimes there’s an estate, other times she’s poor despite having multiple retirement checks. It’s truly not worth the stress, and you have no idea what will happen. GC might die first. She might get dementia and need to bleed assets to a nursing home for 6 years before she’s really broke. 

[Arcadia]

Is the GC your only sibling? Then I would not bother about the existence of the will as long as you are okay with GC taking everything.  My dad’s brother did “fought” with their mom’s GC because their mom did leave equal shares to every living child in her will. I am the executor of my parents will and my only sibling is aware of that. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Arcadia
typo

[Indigo Blue]

Parent is living. 
Parent wants me to believe there is no will because house is in sibling’s name. Sibling lives with her. She wants me to believe there is no need for a will because she “owns nothing”, so no need for a will. I have strong reasons to believe there is one. She probably (but I don’t know this to be true) has already gotten  some of her accounts situated in siblings name. Her 401 k couldn’t be, though. I really don’t know much about her finances. Only that there is some deception going on with her end goal of leaving everything to her gc.

[HomeAgain]

I wouldn't say anything.  There's nothing I could hope to get by revealing I know that information.  There's no relationship that will be improved by telling that information.

It's a wash.  Let the parent say whatever and nod along.

[alisoncooks]

I’d stay the heck out of it. It’s all drama to get you invested and hurt and etc. I’d never mention it, bring it up, nothing. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by alisoncooks

[Arcadia]

4 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

She probably (but I don’t know this to be true) has already gotten  some of her accounts situated in siblings name. Her 401 k couldn’t be, though. I really don’t know much about her finances. Only that there is some deception going on with her end goal of leaving everything to her gc.

My friend’s mom left everything (houses, bank accounts, cars) to him way before she passed because she wanted to avoid probate (and maybe lessen inheritance tax). 401k has beneficiaries and doesn’t need a will.

[bolt.]

I don't think I'd care if there was or wasn't a will at this point. If she wants you to believe there isn't one... who cares? "If you say so!" -- no big deal. If you do believe there is one, I suppose it will come out after she passes, and then you will know for sure. Either way: "Oh well."

As to what your sibling does or doesn't know. For now, who cares? It doesn't matter for now.

Once she passes, if you want to you could say, "I think there might be a will of some kind, in some place. I'm not sure, but we could check." -- and then go check. It shouldn't be hard to look into at that point, and then you will  know if you were right or wrong. No big deal. A simple thing to do, at some point in the future.

What I really want to know is *why* does she want you to believe in this particular "there is no will" version of reality? And how does that relate to why you seem to not want to believe it? Is she just trying to twist the "you get nothing" knife? If so, and you are fine with that, why worry about it at all? No reaction is the best reaction in that case.

[Bootsie]

I would not worry how to a handle a situation which has not happened.  What is best to do at the time of parent's death will depend upon the situation at that point in time.  I might be a bit confused, but it sounds to me that the parent is telling you that there isn't a will, but you think there is.  Is it that you think the parent wants to leave everything to the sibling in the will but doesn't want you to know that is the plan until after the parent's death?  I am not seeing what is gained by being deceitful (and I realize people are not always rational), but I also don't see why it really matters if parent says they don't have a will but they really do.  

[kristin0713]

I would be honest about what I know and then leave it at that. Like not continually argue about it. Just state what I know and move on. 

[Indigo Blue]

22 minutes ago, Ethel Mertz said:

I’m confused. Has NPD parent already died?

And, does GC refer to golden child or grand child?

No parent is living, and GC is golden child. I’ve not done very well explaining it. 

[Corraleno]

If the parent has made it clear that she is not leaving anything to the OP, I don't understand what difference it makes if there's a will or not. Either there's a will leaving everything to the GC or there's no will because everything is already set up to go to the GC without a will (property in his name, he is POD on all accounts, etc.). Either way the OP is not getting anything, and doesn't want anything, so it seems there is nothing to be gained by telling the GC that she suspects there is a secret will that leaves her out. Why cause unnecessary conflict, and possibly give the NPD parent more ammunition, by bringing it up?

[lauraw4321]

GC could be named beneficiary on 401k. Often accounts can be designated payable on death. So it may be there nothing that will be left in her estate. Having a will would actually protect her assets more than not. In most states, children inherit under the law if there’s no will, whereas in most states adult children can be disinherited by wills. In my state, for example, you could rush to the courthouse and petition to be administrator of her estate when she dies and GC would have a hard time displacing you if there’s isn’t a will. On the other hand, why go through the hassle if there won’t be anything?  Retirement accounts can have named beneficiaries. Same for life insurance. She’s made it clear she’s disinheriting you, which she can likely do lawfully. 
 

Of course you should alway consult your own attorney before making legally-binding decisions, and I’m not your attorney. 

[Storygirl]

The situation sounds complex. But, in general, people have the right to decide whom to leave their assets to, and whom to leave nothing to. So whether there is a will or not doesn't really matter, until the person passes away, and then their intentions will be clear.

It sounds like this parent may be using the inheritance factor as a means of manipulation, in which case the best course is likely to just avoid entering into conversation or speculation about it. If they know it bothers you to hear things about this topic, it will just encourage them to keep mentioning it.

[Indigo Blue]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

If the parent has made it clear that she is not leaving anything to the OP, I don't understand what difference it makes if there's a will or not. Either there's a will leaving everything to the GC or there's no will because everything is already set up to go to the GC without a will (property in his name, he is POD on all accounts, etc.). Either way the OP is not getting anything, and doesn't want anything, so it seems there is nothing to be gained by telling the GC that she suspects there is a secret will that leaves her out. Why cause unnecessary conflict, and possibly give the NPD parent more ammunition, by bringing it up?

It’s the deception of it all. I guess it’s hard to know what this feels like unless it’s happening to you.  There IS something funny going on, for sure. As to your last sentence, that’s pretty much why I was asking what I should do. So you believe it’s best to say nothing, so thanks for your opinion on that. 

[Indigo Blue]

48 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

The situation sounds complex. But, in general, people have the right to decide whom to leave their assets to, and whom to leave nothing to. So whether there is a will or not doesn't really matter, until the person passes away, and then their intentions will be clear.

It sounds like this parent may be using the inheritance factor as a means of manipulation, in which case the best course is likely to just avoid entering into conversation or speculation about it. If they know it bothers you to hear things about this topic, it will just encourage them to keep mentioning it.

It is a weird situation, and yes, people have do have a right to decide where to leave their assets, for sure. Thanks for your opinion in the second paragraph. 

[Indigo Blue]

So from these responses, most think it’s best to never say anything to sibling after my parent passes. 

[Stacia]

I am confused as to what the question/situation actually is.

If you truly don't want any of the assets, why does it matter if there's a will or not? If GC gets all assets (through a will or through assets already being put entirely into GC's name now, prior to the parent passing) & you are ok with that, I am not sure why/what you would question or say. What are you wanting to say? And to whom? For what purpose?

Once the parent is gone (& no longer manipulating things from the NPD angle), just work on a relationship w/ your sibling, regardless of whether assets were split or not, whether there was a will or not. Why waste another second focusing on an NPD person now or later? Every second you spend pondering all this is a second that you're giving to the NPD person.

[Harriet Vane]

I agree--never say anything. Why? To not play games with people who think it's fun to twist you into knots. No hinting or stating what is or is not known or suspected. No swimming in those ghastly undercurrents. Every hint just raises their radar--they'll keep up with the stoopid, under-the-table games. Just stay out of it, for your own sanity.

[Garga]

NPDs love to yank everyone’s chains about wills. My father’s NPD mother and father both insisted, multiple times, unasked, that they had a will and that everything was to be equally divided among their 6 children.

Of course, once they both died, that was not the case. GC got most of it and everyone else got insultingly small amounts, meant to hurt.

I think it’s rankling you that you know there’s a will and your NPD is sitting around gleefully picturing the moment when a will appears and you’re completely cut out! Ha! Won’t that just show you! It would be very hard not to say, “I know there’s a will and I already know I’m not in it,” just to deflate their glee. And also, it must rankle to have GC be blind to all this. It makes you want to say, “Oh come ON everybody. Let’s all open our eyes and see what’s going on here. No more games and tricks!”

I would say though, that it’s best to leave it alone until NPD is gone. If you say something now, NPD will change their miserable little plan, just to mess with you. Tell GC later. Do your best to let it go. NPD is gonna NPD and so just put up that boundary and don’t let it mess with your head as much as you can.

[Indigo Blue]

10 minutes ago, Stacia said:

Once the parent is gone (& no longer manipulating things from the NPD angle), just work on a relationship w/ your sibling, regardless of whether assets were split or not, whether there was a will or not

You didn’t understand the question, but you answered it well, anyway. I’m sorry I am just not doing a good job of explaining this.

[Indigo Blue]

Let me try again. It’s simply a matter of whether to let my golden child brother know that I know he received everything from our parent (if it all plays out this way). Just should I let him know that or let it go. That’s pretty much it. 
 

 

[Indigo Blue]

14 minutes ago, Stacia said:

Every second you spend pondering all this is a second that you're giving to the NPD person.

You are right. That’s why I want to get this settled in my head so I can stop thinking about it. 

[almondbutterandjelly]

Let it go.  You will lose that game every time.  (hugs).   Unless you take yourself out of it by saying nothing.

I know you are referencing GC and not parent, but the same advice applies.

[Carol in Cal.]

Do you think you could have a reasonable relationship with him if he didn't know that you know this, that he inherited everything and that it was a substantial inheritance?  I'm not sure that I could, if he lied to me about it.   I don't know whether I would bring it up, but it would color our relationship for sure.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Carol in Cal.

[Corraleno]

10 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

It’s the deception of it all. I guess it’s hard to know what this feels like unless it’s happening to you.  There IS something funny going on, for sure. As to your last sentence, that’s pretty much why I was asking what I should do. So you believe it’s best to say nothing, so thanks for your opinion on that. 

But you know she lies, why is this lie more egregious than all the other lies? She's NPD, lying is like breathing. What do you expect to happen if you tell the GC "Mom told me there was no will, but I think she lied and there really is one"? If there is a will, he already knows about it, and if there isn't one then you just look like you're trying to stir something up. For your own peace of mind, you need to accept that nothing about your relationship with her will ever be honest or fair or normal. It is what it is, you'll never get justice while she's alive and you're not going to get it when she's dead either.

I also have an NPD mother, and I know that any assets she has are going to the GC. I have been low or no contact for years, and she mentioned a long time ago that she was leaving everything to the GC "because she needs it more than me" — which is true and I'm 100% on board with that. I do not want a dime from her, or even some random knick knack. If she somehow had a change of heart on her deathbed and added me to her will, I would disclaim it and make sure it went to my sister anyway. I have zero interest in knowing whether there's a will or how much is in the estate or who gets what. It has nothing to do with me.

[Stacia]

Just now, Indigo Blue said:

Let me try again. It’s simply a matter of whether to let my golden child brother know that I know he received everything from our parent (if it all plays out this way). Just should I let him know that or let it go. That’s pretty much it.

If he gets it all, I would think he would know that means you didn't get anything. (I don't know whether he would feel happy or embarrassed or ??? about that. Regardless, I'm not sure what there is to say about it unless he brings it up to you.)

Maybe once all this comes to pass (assuming your brother will indeed get everything), just work on having a relationship with him. Your parent & all the assets don't need to enter into it.

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Let me try again. It’s simply a matter [edited out personal info not to be quoted]. That’s pretty much it. 
 

 

After the parent dies, everything will be out in the open, and before the parent dies, it's irrelevant.  So even assuming you're 100% correct, there's nothing to talk about.

What would GC do with the information anyway?  Feel guilty or pressured about something that isn't his doing?  It seems to me that can only harm your relationship.  I don't see the point.

You seem to want to get something off your chest.  I suggest you go write about it in an email to yourself and then delete it.

[Corraleno]

5 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Let me try again. It’s simply a matter of whether to let my golden child brother know that I know he received everything from our parent (if it all plays out this way). Just should I let him know that or let it go. That’s pretty much it. 
 

 

But that's a totally different question from whether or not there's a will. She doesn't need a will for him to get everything. Why does it matter to you that he knows you know he got everything?

[Moonhawk]

If you think the lie is straining your relationship with GC, and you think getting it out in the open would help that, then I can see a reason to address it. I don't know if it's the best course of action, but I don't think it'd be wrong either.

If you want to address it, "GC, I know you're probably in an awkward position because you don't want to hurt my feelings, but I want to let you know that I understand everything is going to be left to you one way or another, whether it's in a will or you've been put as a secondary on accounts, whatever. And that's okay. I just don't want you to feel like you have to lie to me or hide this so that I don't feel bad. It doesn't have to become an issue between us."

[Indigo Blue]

2 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Do you think you could have a reasonable relationship with him if he didn't know that you know this, that he inherited everything and that it was a substantial inheritance?  I'm not sure that I could, if he lied to me about it.   I don't know whether I would bring it up, but it would color our relationship for sure.

Yes, I’ve wondered what he would say if I asked. Then if he lied and I knew he was lying….

That’s kind of why I was wondering if I should just put it out there on the table. Especially if he tries to lie. Of course, I can play dumb and never, ever bring it up. 
 

It’s not a substantial amount. I don’t know how much, but pretty sure it’s not substantial. But that doesn’t really matter. 
 

Yes, I could have a reasonable relationship with him if he didn’t know I knew and I kept it that way.

[Jean in Newcastle]

You don’t know if he will actually get everything or not until the parent passes and the executor does their job. Even then you say that you don’t want anything so it’s a moot point. What would you hope to achieve by bringing it up to him?  An offer from him to split things?  For him to somehow make up for the slights you feel from childhood?  

[Janeway]

Here is the thing..if there is no will, it has to be split. There are varying laws by the state, but the GC will not get more than the siblings. 

In my case, I am sure there was a will. But, it went "missing." And now I am getting my portion so far. The executer has made sure of it and none of my other siblings are objecting. 

[Indigo Blue]

6 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

If you think the lie is straining your relationship with GC, and you think getting it out in the open would help that, then I can see a reason to address it. I don't know if it's the best course of action, but I don't think it'd be wrong either.

If you want to address it, "GC, I know you're probably in an awkward position because you don't want to hurt my feelings, but I want to let you know that I understand everything is going to be left to you one way or another, whether it's in a will or you've been put as a secondary on accounts, whatever. And that's okay. I just don't want you to feel like you have to lie to me or hide this so that I don't feel bad. It doesn't have to become an issue between us."

This is exactly what I would say IF I said anything at all. 

[TexasProud]

9 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

But that's a totally different question from whether or not there's a will. She doesn't need a will for him to get everything. Why does it matter to you that he knows you know he got everything?

I think the point is that she thinks there is a will where she gets part of it. Now, parent says the golden child gets it all. She dies. Golden child knows there is a will, but lies about it to get all the money. She wants him to know that she knows that he lied. It isn't about the money.  She wants to him to know  that she knows that he lied. ( If GC is a he.)  She is so tired of the secrecy and the lies that she just wants them to be honest about everything from now on.  No more lying. I think that is what she is trying to decide. 

[SKL]

This may be totally irrelevant, but [deleted lots of personal info].

Why am I even bringing this up?  Well ... it could be possible that GC has been quietly providing support for The Person mentioned in the OP.  I wouldn't know.

Edited March 28, 2022 by SKL

[bolt.]

It sounds like everybody knows who is going to inherit and nobody has a problem with it.

The only unknown is whether the inheritance is going to be by direct transfer or through a will?

Why does knowing (or not knowing) that future method-of-transfer detail matter to anyone?

[Indigo Blue]

2 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I think the point is that she thinks there is a will where she gets part of it. Now, parent says the golden child gets it all. She dies. Golden child knows there is a will, but lies about it to get all the money. She wants him to know that she knows that he lied. It isn't about the money.  She wants to him to know  that she knows that he lied. ( If GC is a he.)  She is so tired of the secrecy and the lies that she just wants them to be honest about everything from now on.  No more lying. I think that is what she is trying to decide. 

Yes, this is getting closer. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Fwiw, I think your best shot at a healthy relationship with GC is after NPD dies. Right now he is caught in the dynamic of living with person with NPD and being the GC. There’s no way for him to be in a mentally healthy place right now—you are either going to hear denial, lies, grudging acquiescence—but the odds are very slim that the convo stays between just the two of you. 
 

If you want to confront after NPD dies, go for it, but I see nothing but liability for you in doing so now. 
 

 

[Indigo Blue]

2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Fwiw, I think your best shot at a healthy relationship with GC is after NPD dies. Right now he is caught in the dynamic of living with person with NPD and being the GC. There’s no way for him to be in a mentally healthy place right now—you are either going to hear denial, lies, grudging acquiescence—but the odds are very slim that the convo stays between just the two of you. 
 

If you want to confront after NPD dies, go for it, but I see nothing but liability for you in doing so now. 
 

 

No! I would never say anything now! And I agree so much with your first paragraph. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

A will is a legal document. If there is a will then the executor has to abide  by the will no matter what they personally want. If they don’t, they are committing a crime. If the person making the will wants to leave all to one person and none to another then it’s their prerogative . I mean, you could go to court to contest it but I would imagine that  would be ugly. And if you truly don’t care about receiving anything then there’s no point. 
 

If there is no will then each state has laws about how things are split after probate. Again- not up to one person to decide willy nilly. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Fwiw, we are where Corraleno is at. Even if by some fluke we do inherit something, we will disclaim or burn/donate the knick knacks. We want nothing from NPD and GC can take it all (they have most of it already).

GC has more than a hint of NPD themselves. It was what they were conditioned to be, so I have some empathy there, but until they do the work to be emotionally healthy, there can be no real relationship there.

[Corraleno]

1 minute ago, Indigo Blue said:

Yes, this is getting closer. 

So you believe there is a will that leaves assets to you and that he will lie and pretend no will exists?

If she has already put property in his name, and added him as the POD on bank accounts and made him beneficiary on the 401K, any revocable trusts, etc., then those things would be outside the will anyway, so if all the major assets are already distributed that way, and it turns out there's a will that says you get half of everything that's leftover, then the "half" you get is going to be like knick knacks and old furniture. And if she hasn't already transferred assets and made him the POD/beneficiary on various accounts, then if he pretends she died intestate, then it will get split according to state law anyway, so that doesn't benefit him.