My stepdad let my 13 yo drive with 2 siblings in the back

[Calizzy]

My parents are visiting for the weekend and my stepdad took 13dd, 11dd, and 8ds to Home Depot for an errand. On the way home he pulled over and let 13yo drive the rest of the way. About 1/2 mile through very hilly, curved, populated suburban neighborhood. With 11 yo and 8 yo in the back. She has NEVER driven before. She actually made it almost the whole way, but then crashed into our car that was parked in our driveway while pulling in. I am so beyond furious and completely flabbergasted at how in the world anyone could think this is ok. I can’t stop thinking about what would have happened if a dog ran out and she slammed on the gas instead of the break and went flying through someone’s front door. My mom chewed him out to the point of tears. He apologized. I told him how dangerous it was and that he put my kids at risk. I don’t even know how to move forward in relationship with him. 

[JustEm]

Umm, he should never be unsupervised with them again.

I'm so sorry that happened and I am so glad everyone is ok

[maize]

Maybe this kind of thing was normal in his family. My grandpa let me drive his pickup when I was 14, though it was in a more rural area. There were older but no younger siblings in the vehicle with us.

Your stepdad made a bad call. It was dangerous. I would have been mad too.

As for how to move forward--it's in the past, he has apologized. You move forward and don't let yourself hyperfocus on might-have-beens. I'd be cautious about letting him supervise my children in the future. 

[Sneezyone]

Yikes, that's awful!  He DEFINITELY made a bad call and wouldn't have unsupervised time with my peeps until they were a) old enough b) vocal enough and c) empowered enough to push back. Who's paying for the vehicle damage?!?!

[Melissa in Australia]

How absolutely awful. I wouldn’t know how to move forward with a relationship either. 

here that would result in all sorts of legal trouble for the adult and most probably would involve child protection.

[Ann.without.an.e]

That's scary. I don't know how old he is but it was common at one time. A few years ago, my friend's dad let their 14 year old drive all the way to the beach (about 4 hours from here). Friend was chill about it but I was like whatta what??????? To her dad, this was normal and how kids learned to drive. I wouldn't have been so chill lol

Even if he thought it was ok, he should've asked. I would try to forgive him, especially if he is sorry and realizes his mistake. Maybe he shouldn't be left unsupervised with them but people do make mistakes. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Kassia]

Wow, that's awful.  I'd be so shaken up and upset.  I'm glad he apologized but I agree that I'd be very cautious about your kids being around him in the future due to poor judgement.  I'm sorry about the damage but so glad everyone is okay.  

[Melissa in Australia]

Just reread and see it is a step grandfather. Was he a father figure to you as a child, or a newer stepfather. I would be tempted to cut contact with him completely if he is a newer stepfather. He risked the lives of all your children and the lives of anyone in the vicinity by his recklessness.

 

driving lesson  off road in a farm paddock is one thing, driving on a road with other kids something else completely 

[Idalou]

A week or so ago a dad let his 13 year old son drive their truck on the highway. He hit a vehicle full of university students and a total of 9 died( that included the dad and kid)

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

This boggles my mind and I would freak out on him.  My husband’s grandfather was letting him drive on rural roads at 13 and it was pretty normal for that community at that time(mid-90s).  So I know it happens and maybe he thought it was completely normal,  but I’d be making it very clear that it’s not acceptable in today’s society nor is it safe at all.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Ann.without.an.e]

😞

Edited March 27, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[El...]

This sort of craziness was not uncommon when I was a kid. I'm a tad old. But yeah, that's insanely dangerous and maybe criminal. I'm so sorry he did that. Your poor daughter must be so freaked out. 

[El...]

Just now, Ann.without.an.e said:

Could you even imagine how to process that or live with that at 13?? Poor kid. How awful for all of the students and parents but this kiddo is going to struggle too.

I'm sorry to clarify, but the 13yo driver died in the crash.

[Melissa in Australia]

Just now, Ann.without.an.e said:

Could you even imagine how to process that or live with that at 13?? Poor kid. How awful for all of the students and parents but this kiddo is going to struggle too.

I thought he died as well

[Ann.without.an.e]

Just now, elroisees said:

I'm sorry to clarify, but the 13yo driver died in the crash.

Wow, I read over that or you added it for clarification. So sad 😞 

[Calizzy]

He’s been in my life since I was a child. He is nice, but lacks good judgement. This incident just enforces that I cannot let my guard down in regards to him supervising my children. He grew up with a disfunctional family in which he would drive his drunk parents home from the bar when he was young. He was trying to be “cool grandpa”letting her drive. Smh. 

[Danae]

If it were on a farm I’d be annoyed that he didn’t ask a parent first, but not outraged.  On city streets?  That’s illegal and dangerous and I’d want to know what the hell he was thinking.

I also would be having (out of his earshot) a talk with the 13 year old.  She’s old enough to know that what she did was wrong.  I’d want to know if he pressured her into it or if he suggested and she jumped at the chance. 

[El...]

What in the world will happen if you guys report this to an insurance company? Crap. This is bad. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

6 minutes ago, Calizzy said:

He’s been in my life since I was a child. He is nice, but lacks good judgement. This incident just enforces that I cannot let my guard down in regards to him supervising my children. He grew up with a disfunctional family in which he would drive his drunk parents home from the bar when he was young. He was trying to be “cool grandpa”letting her drive. Smh. 

 

It seems like he is sorry and realizes his mistake. I really wouldn't hold it against him long term but I also wouldn't allow him unsupervised with my kids since he lacks judgement. Let them have a relationship but only when you're close by to keep an eye on things. 

What does your dd think about it all?

Edited March 27, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Calizzy]

To clarify, he really only half apologized. When I said it was dangerous for the other kids in the cars he was like, “we’ll, they had seat belts on.” And when I said she could have hit the gas instead of the brakes he was like “I was watching her” like watching her would make her feet press the right pedal. 

[Calizzy]

28 minutes ago, Danae said:

If it were on a farm I’d be annoyed that he didn’t ask a parent first, but not outraged.  On city streets?  That’s illegal and dangerous and I’d want to know what the hell he was thinking.

I also would be having (out of his earshot) a talk with the 13 year old.  She’s old enough to know that what she did was wrong.  I’d want to know if he pressured her into it or if he suggested and she jumped at the chance. 

This is true. I gave my dd a pass because I was so infuriated with grandpa, but dh told her she should have said “no.” It’s hard to say no when a grandparent says it’s ok, but you’re right- she needs to be able to stand against pressure to do the wrong thing.

[Calizzy]

25 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

It seems like he is sorry and realizes his mistake. I really wouldn't hold it against him long term but I also wouldn't allow him unsupervised with my kids since he lacks judgement. Let them have a relationship but only when you're close by to keep an eye on things. 

What does your dd think about it all?

She came running in the house crying because she crashed into dh’s 3 month old car. She was very shaken. The other 2 kids were very shaken too. It’s still raw for dd. I think I will talk to her more tomorrow.

[Soror]

I find that entirely reckless, even being in an area where farm kids drive around on farm/back roads from teen years and up (although not my kids because we don't live on a farm). (My niece had a friend that was driving to school from 14 years old- by herself- granted not major highways but there are still other drivers. I was floored at that).

The first driving lessons my kids get are in parking lots where there is no one else around. That is crazy dangerous to have their first lesson with other kids, not to mention driving on a road that is hard to drive. Your poor kid! Then to top it off them hitting a new vehicle I'd be livid and find it hard to speak to him for a long time. 

[teachermom2834]

This would be so upsetting. It should be so obvious it is so wrong. So dangerous. So illegal. So expensive if something goes wrong. I would be absolutely furious. Beside myself furious. I would be shaking. So upsetting.

And yet. Somehow this is one of those things people do? And it seems reasonable and normal? And within the acceptable range of “things people do”. So I would think you would have to find some way forward. But if it was dh I think I would divorce him. Because it’s crazy! Yet somehow it’s something grandparents would think is in a normal range?

When my oldest ds was a preschooler- maybe 3 years old- my dad, who by all accounts would be considered a reasonable person, had him pump gas. They were at a gas station (on a road trip, we were all going to the same destination but ds was riding with the grandparents). Grandpa thought it would be fun to let the little kid pump gas. Well little kid got gas all over himself. Gas station attendants called an ambulance. Police came and took a report. Obviously in hindsight it was a bad move….but Grandpa thought it would be fun. ?!?!!!?

[maize]

I would definitely be gentle with your dd. It's pretty normal for kids that age to go along with what an authority figure tells them to do.

[sassenach]

Yikes. That's scary and really angering.

I can kind of see my step dad doing something like that. He never had kids. He loves mine but he doesn't always have good parenting instincts.

I am not in the camp of cutting off the relationship but I absolutely think he would not have unsupervised (by dh or I) access to my kids again. That means no trips to the grandparents. Huge bummer for your mom, but necessary. 

I would also expect him to cover the cost of your car repairs.

[Annie G]

2 minutes ago, sassenach said:

 

I would also expect him to cover the cost of your car repairs.

This!

[Melissa in Australia]

Seeing as he didn’t really apologise I would report it to the police. It is illegal 

[Jean in Newcastle]

That grandfather would be paying for the car to be repaired. The entire bill without insurance involvement. 

[Arcadia]

45 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

 

And yet. Somehow this is one of those things people do? And it seems reasonable and normal? And within the acceptable range of “things people do”. So I would think you would have to find some way forward. But if it was dh I think I would divorce him. Because it’s crazy! Yet somehow it’s something grandparents would think is in a normal range?

My FIL is against car seats for infants and young kids. Luckily whoever drives can end up in jail in my country of origin and he was not going to gamble being caught. When I was growing up, we had two adults and five kids in a sedan, no seat belt laws and my in-laws prefer that era. 
“If convicted in court, the passenger will have to pay a penalty not exceeding $1,000 or imprisonment for three months. In case of a second or subsequent offence, the court will impose a fine not exceeding $2,000 or imprisonment for six months.”

[Tenaj]

As I read this, I keep thinking of your poor daughter and how traumatic this must be for her and how it could have lasting effects.  She's not that far away from the age when getting a driver's license is an exciting time and to have this memory might be an awful thing for her.  I don't think I would lay any blame for this on her at all - not even that she could have said "no".  Maybe at a time later I would have that discussion in a different context but I'm guessing she's had enough trauma for now.  I really hope this doesn't affect her when she legally begins driving.  I have an 18yods who experienced no trauma at all and is still reluctant to drive because he fears making a bad decision and I can't imagine how something like this would have affected him.

[Elizabeth86]

28 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

That grandfather would be paying for the car to be repaired. The entire bill without insurance involvement. 

Yes!

[Selkie]

Wow, what a complete idiot. I would find it extremely difficult to maintain a relationship with someone who put the lives of my kids and other people at risk to try to be cool.

[Tap]

40 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

That grandfather would be paying for the car to be repaired. The entire bill without insurance involvement. 

Insurnace won't pay.  She was an unlicensed driver. 

[Tap]

If it is reported:

He will likely get a citation for child endangerment and a fine. There could be more, depending on the state.

She (aka YOU) will get a fine for her driving without a permit or license. In our area, it will also prevent her from getting a license until she was 21. It will stay on her record for 5 years and a motor vehicle violation can prevent certain types of employment.  

There could also be citations/fines to her for causing damage over x$.  Since it is your own vehicles, I would suspect this will be unlikely, but possible depending on the police officer taking the report.

I would keep this very, very close to the chest and not tell many people about it. No one got physically hurt, so I wouldn't ruminate on that. But, if the authorities find out, there could be legal ramifications for all of you. 

 

He needs to pay 100% for all repairs!!! And if anything does come of it legally, he needs to handle all the fines/fees and legal costs.

[kristin0713]

He needs to pay for repairs, absolutely. I’m almost fuming just thinking about this. And I would not blame your DD one bit. 

[Frances]

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

This boggles my mind and I would freak out on him.  My husband’s grandfather was letting him drive on rural roads at 13 and it was pretty normal for that community at that time(mid-90s).  So I know it happens and maybe he thought it was completely normal,  but I’d be making it very clear that it’s not acceptable in today’s society nor is it safe at all.

I agree, rural roads in sparsely populated areas are very different. Where I grew up in the rural Midwest, kids could get special permits at 14 to drive themselves and their siblings in from the country to school. But those were kids that had already been driving on farm as soon as they could reach the pedals. I don’t know if it’s still allowed today.

[Melissa in Australia]

23 minutes ago, Tap said:

If it is reported:

He will likely get a citation for child endangerment and a fine. There could be more, depending on the state.

She (aka YOU) will get a fine for her driving without a permit or license. In our area, it will also prevent her from getting a license until she was 21. It will stay on her record for 5 years and a motor vehicle violation can prevent certain types of employment.  

There could also be citations/fines to her for causing damage over x$.  Since it is your own vehicles, I would suspect this will be unlikely, but possible depending on the police officer taking the report.

I would keep this very, very close to the chest and not tell many people about it. No one got physically hurt, so I wouldn't ruminate on that. But, if the authorities find out, there could be legal ramifications for all of you. 

 

He needs to pay 100% for all repairs!!! And if anything does come of it legally, he needs to handle all the fines/fees and legal costs.

This is very problematic and allows illegal activities to continue. People who don’t get caught for what they view as not big crimes continue to do illegal things

 Maybe the 13 year old needs to understand what a grave offence she has done. 13 is plenty old enough to say no that is wrong.

Similar arguments were used for never reporting family members for child sex offences and look what a huge mess that has ended up becoming.

[katilac]

3 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

This is very problematic and allows illegal activities to continue. People who don’t get caught for what they view as not big crimes continue to do illegal things

 Maybe the 13 year old needs to understand what a grave offence she has done. 13 is plenty old enough to say no that is wrong.

Similar arguments were used for never reporting family members for child sex offences and look what a huge mess that has ended up becoming.

Seriously? 

[Tanaqui]

Is this the sort of behavior you would normally expect from this man?

[elegantlion]

I would be livid with grandpa. He would not be driving my kids alone for a long while. As for any damages I would ask him to pay, no insurance involved. It does not need to be reported to insurance, especially if it's minor. If it gets reported to insurance, this could show as an at-fault accident on her record. I don't know the rules (my insurance days were long ago), but it could follow her and you probably don't want to pay insurance rates for a newly licensed driver with an AF accident.

As for dd, I would talk to her gently. I would ask her honestly if she thought this was a good idea or did she feel pressured. If she felt pressured, there would be a long talk about boundaries. 13 is old enough to understand/learn that saying No to any man that is pressuring to do anything is the appropriate response. 

Then, because I'd be concerned about her never wanting to drive ever, I'd talk about how someday you'll teach her to drive and it'll be more fun and in less precarious circumstances. I would remind her the accident is not her fault, that she does not have experience needed and that grandpa is the one at fault. 

[City Mouse]

It sounds like he didn’t really think he did anything wrong. In that case I would never let a child who did it know how to drive and was of legal driving age to be in his car without a parent present. 

My mother made an equally poor and potentially extremely dangerous decision that could have harmed my then 1-yr old son. I won’t derail this thread by giving specific details, She did not understand why what she did was so serious andWhy I was upset. I never left my DS alone with her again until he was of an age that I would leave him home by himself. I did not tell my mother what I was doing, but it was necessary for me to adjust my behavior so that she was never alone with him. 

[Meriwether]

My dad has let the kids drive on the farm. I don't think anything about it. It would not be okay for him to let them drive illegally on a street, city or rural.

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, sassenach said:

Yikes. That's scary and really angering.

I can kind of see my step dad doing something like that. He never had kids. He loves mine but he doesn't always have good parenting instincts.

I am not in the camp of cutting off the relationship but I absolutely think he would not have unsupervised (by dh or I) access to my kids again. That means no trips to the grandparents. Huge bummer for your mom, but necessary. 

I would also expect him to cover the cost of your car repairs.

Yep to all of this.  

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, Calizzy said:

My parents are visiting for the weekend and my stepdad took 13dd, 11dd, and 8ds to Home Depot for an errand. On the way home he pulled over and let 13yo drive the rest of the way. About 1/2 mile through very hilly, curved, populated suburban neighborhood. With 11 yo and 8 yo in the back. She has NEVER driven before. She actually made it almost the whole way, but then crashed into our car that was parked in our driveway while pulling in. I am so beyond furious and completely flabbergasted at how in the world anyone could think this is ok. I can’t stop thinking about what would have happened if a dog ran out and she slammed on the gas instead of the break and went flying through someone’s front door. My mom chewed him out to the point of tears. He apologized. I told him how dangerous it was and that he put my kids at risk. I don’t even know how to move forward in relationship with him. 

How is the repairs of your car being handled?  Were the police called?  

I remember my grandfather doing stuff like that - I hated it, but he thought it was funny.

Edited March 28, 2022 by gardenmom5

[Jean in Newcastle]

Step grandpa will not get it unless he has the pain of actually suffering the consequences of his actions. Fortunately those consequences were property damage and not damage to any of the grandchildren. 

[2squared]

4 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

This boggles my mind and I would freak out on him.  My husband’s grandfather was letting him drive on rural roads at 13 and it was pretty normal for that community at that time(mid-90s).  So I know it happens and maybe he thought it was completely normal,  but I’d be making it very clear that it’s not acceptable in today’s society nor is it safe at all.

Kids in South Dakota are able to get their permits and drivers licenses at 14yo, and kids in my area are driving tractors and vehicles on farms as soon as they are tall enough to reach the pedals (same as when I was a kid). 

[Tap]

2 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

This is very problematic and allows illegal activities to continue. People who don’t get caught for what they view as not big crimes continue to do illegal things

 Maybe the 13 year old needs to understand what a grave offence she has done. 13 is plenty old enough to say no that is wrong.

Similar arguments were used for never reporting family members for child sex offences and look what a huge mess that has ended up becoming.

Interesting thought and I completely respect your view. There is a history of sex offenses in my extended family, so I do understand this train of thought. But in the vast majority of sex crimes, there is a clear victim and a clear perpetrator. There is a purposeful action to gain sexual pleasure.  I do not see the connection between that and driving before you can legally. This is way different to me.

What makes this very different to me, is that she caused an ***accident***. She didn't purposefully drive into the other car. She wasn't properly trained or supervised to drive on this day. The person teaching her to drive, failed to teach!!! Most teens, think that driving is easy, until the do it for the first time. Who knows what the grandfather said to her, that led to her making this decision. I am assuming that the parents know this child at heart and are looking into how she was in this position in the first place. 

There can be consequences that her parents place on her, that are not the equivalent of taking her ability to get her license until 21years of age. Most kids get their license between 16-18 when they are in high school here (16 is common age in USA for a license-I am not sure what it is in Australia). My son had already graduated from 4 years of college at 21! Taking away the ability to get a license until 21 is devastating in many communities. Public transportation is not common in most communities in the USA.BTW< I am not sure what the laws are in her state, I am only going off of what the laws are here. 

[Tap]

7 minutes ago, 2squared said:

Kids in South Dakota are able to get their permits and drivers licenses at 14yo, and kids in my area are driving tractors and vehicles on farms as soon as they are tall enough to reach the pedals (same as when I was a kid). 

When I lived in Texas, kids could get a provisional license at 14. I knew several kids who had them and were able to drive themselves back and forth to school. I don't know if they still have this option, but it wouldn't surprise me on bit.

[Katy]

Plenty of states still have school permits at 14. The problem was the location and who else was in the car.  On a farm or other private property without little kids in the car it would legally be fine.