Why do parents do this to their children? Competitive activities.

[Ting Tang]

My daughter is involved in a very competitive activity.

There is a child who is older, incredibly talented and gifted at this said activity.  She often wins.

She has been ill for a week and was only able to practice for one day before the next competition.

So the mother says they will need LUCK and to consider this a "warm up" competition.  I personally think this is a crummy thing to write.  There are likely children who work just as hard who do not win as often, and there are people who take every competition seriously---diminishing it is a slap in the face, just because it is not a national level competition.  I'm sure this child will still do very well.  You don't throw away a lifetime of investment to an illness, right?

It's what I hate about competitive activities for children.  

 

[maize]

I'm not sure actually what your complaint is.

It sounds to me like the mother is talking about her own daughter and trying to lift any pressure regarding the upcoming competition, acknowledging the recent illness. That honestly sounds healthy to me. It doesn't have anything to do with other competitors and how significant the competition is to them or how they should view it.

Acknowledging that sometimes illness affects training and performance seems like a positive thing.

Edited March 25, 2022 by maize

[Ting Tang]

10 minutes ago, maize said:

I'm not sure actually what your complaint is.

It sounds to me like the mother is talking about her own daughter and trying to lift any pressure regarding the upcoming competition, acknowledging the recent illness. That honestly sounds healthy to me. It doesn't have anything to do with other competitors and how significant the competition is to them or how they should view it.

Acknowledging that sometimes illness affects training and performance seems like a positive thing.

I think she is totally undermining her child's abilities saying she needs "luck" to do well.  Also, it makes winning 1st place the most important thing.  I think that is extremely unhealthy for an 8/9 year old child.  I think it'd be healthier to set your child up for success by saying, I know you will do your best under the circumstances, and I love you no matter what.  I don't know. I truly hate how everything has to be super competitive these days. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Ting Tang

[HomeAgain]

I've learned to take it with a grain of salt.  DS12 is in competitive activities.  There are parents like that.  There are ones who are worried about scouting at the age of 7 or 8.  Or they consider it an investment, and pooh-pooh less prestigious opportunities that other kids struggle with or unconsciously expect a return.  It can put pressure on the kid, and the parent.  Then the parent has to talk themselves back down off the stress ledge.

We decided a long time ago that we had to define the purpose of these things our kid does.  He's never going to be a professional competitor.  So, we're raising a CHILD who has opportunities to give him well=roundedness and good memories, not a COMPETITOR who will do these things at the expense of childhood.  It helps frame our perspective when looking at others.  And it makes me not fly off the deep end about investment of time and money when ds makes personal decisions like refusing opportunities for orchestra (which I think he would like, but, oh well).  He sat and talked to us about it and really wants to continue private lessons and have it as a hobby, but devote school time to other interests. If he makes the same choices about other things, okay there, too.  The kid has put in hours and hours of work to get to an acceptable level in a sport so that he didn't stand out.  Every time he gets sick his skills suffer from weak muscles and coordination that has to be built again.  Even dh remarked that he has no natural talent here.  None.  Every gain has been hard earned to make him look competent.  His team went last place in the league this year and I'm proud to bits of him. 

[Ting Tang]

9 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

I've learned to take it with a grain of salt.  DS12 is in competitive activities.  There are parents like that.  There are ones who are worried about scouting at the age of 7 or 8.  Or they consider it an investment, and pooh-pooh less prestigious opportunities that other kids struggle with or unconsciously expect a return.  It can put pressure on the kid, and the parent.  Then the parent has to talk themselves back down off the stress ledge.

We decided a long time ago that we had to define the purpose of these things our kid does.  He's never going to be a professional competitor.  So, we're raising a CHILD who has opportunities to give him well=roundedness and good memories, not a COMPETITOR who will do these things at the expense of childhood.  It helps frame our perspective when looking at others.  And it makes me not fly off the deep end about investment of time and money when ds makes personal decisions like refusing opportunities for orchestra (which I think he would like, but, oh well).  He sat and talked to us about it and really wants to continue private lessons and have it as a hobby, but devote school time to other interests. If he makes the same choices about other things, okay there, too.  The kid has put in hours and hours of work to get to an acceptable level in a sport so that he didn't stand out.  Every time he gets sick his skills suffer from weak muscles and coordination that has to be built again.  Even dh remarked that he has no natural talent here.  None.  Every gain has been hard earned to make him look competent.  His team went last place in the league this year and I'm proud to bits of him. 

I feel like so much has changed since we were kids.  And now parents get to make these public announcements on their social media, where their Facebook friends are mostly other parents with children in the same activity.  

Very few make it "big" in anything, so I do think the focus should be on character development, health, and enjoyment. Sure, winning is fun, but it's not the most important thing. You're allowed to get sick, and you're allowed to have a bad day.  I feel like these people will trash their kids on social media, and it doesn't go away.  And there is always someone that would be so happy and proud with 2nd...3rd place.  

The competition really does sometimes take childhood out of it all.  I notice even little league baseball is year round now, no more seasons....  Just burn out the kids (and the parents!).

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Ting Tang

[JustEm]

I think in competitive sports it is a fine line between being too focused on 1st price and being too into participation trophies (which I'd view as the opposite of too 1st price oriented.) Competition is a good thing and it can be taught in a healthy way alongside character development, health, and enjoyment. My ds thoroughly enjoys competing in his activity.  And if he was actively participating right now he'd likely place 1st often.  That doesn't mean he is not also building character and being healthy.  In a scenario where he was sick for a while before a competition I don't think it would be an issue at all for him to get in the mindset that this is a practice competition.  That type of mindset would mean that he wouldn't push himself to compete how he normally does because he still has healing to do.  

[Clarita]

There are garbage parents who are trying to live vicariously through their children. 

In the area which I live, I do also have to remember for some of the parents being the best at this particular sport is what they believe is going to get their kids the best chance at a decent life. Our little league does have a lot of parents absolutely hoping their tee-ball kid is going to the majors because it's their chance out of being poor. They hope maybe if they don't get into the majors, they can maybe get college scholarships.

I realize it is a privilege for me to be able to just view these things as just great character development, health and enjoyment for my own kids. 

[Ting Tang]

1 minute ago, hjffkj said:

I think in competitive sports it is a fine line between being too focused on 1st price and being too into participation trophies (which I'd view as the opposite of too 1st price oriented.) Competition is a good thing and it can be taught in a healthy way alongside character development, health, and enjoyment. My ds thoroughly enjoys competing in his activity.  And if he was actively participating right now he'd likely place 1st often.  That doesn't mean he is not also building character and being healthy.  In a scenario where he was sick for a while before a competition I don't think it would be an issue at all for him to get in the mindset that this is a practice competition.  That type of mindset would mean that he wouldn't push himself to compete how he normally does because he still has healing to do.  

I agree with this, too.  We believe that hard work should be rewarded, but I do think there are some who are just too focused on if you're not 1st, you are last.  It seems like so much pressure for children to be perfect.  And the whole social media thing.  😞  There are children who will not win 1st, even if they were not sick and tried their very best.  

[Ting Tang]

2 minutes ago, Clarita said:

There are garbage parents who are trying to live vicariously through their children. 

In the area which I live, I do also have to remember for some of the parents being the best at this particular sport is what they believe is going to get their kids the best chance at a decent life. Our little league does have a lot of parents absolutely hoping their tee-ball kid is going to the majors because it's their chance out of being poor. They hope maybe if they don't get into the majors, they can maybe get college scholarships.

I realize it is a privilege for me to be able to just view these things as just great character development, health and enjoyment for my own kids. 

There really are those kinds of parents.  We tell our kids over and over again to do well in school, lol.  My nephew does get to play college ball... at a tiny, small private college.  After years of all the competitive stuff.  We are proud of him, but it just goes to show you it is not a very realistic goal. 

[Clarita]

I had a friend who was scouted for football apparently, he was phenomenal. One injury in high school destroyed it. It's definitely a hard path. 

[EKS]

1 hour ago, Ting Tang said:

I think she is totally undermining her child's abilities saying she needs "luck" to do well.

I think that luck is underrated. 

[Ting Tang]

15 minutes ago, Clarita said:

I had a friend who was scouted for football apparently, he was phenomenal. One injury in high school destroyed it. It's definitely a hard path. 

That is so sad.  I hear so many of these stories, unfortunately.  You cannot put all of your eggs into one basket, so to speak.  My nephew, fortunately, is quite bright. But he already gave up the idea of having an engineering major because the school he gets to play at doesn't have a program for that.  

[Farrar]

9 minutes ago, EKS said:

I think that luck is underrated. 

I was going to say the same thing. Luck - aka, random circumstance and how it ends up affecting us - is a huge force in our lives, including in competitions.

[Ting Tang]

8 minutes ago, EKS said:

I think that luck is underrated. 

Yep!  She is going to do well.  I feel like I have more faith in her than her mom, lol.  I don't get the public announcement.

[Ting Tang]

Just now, Farrar said:

I was going to say the same thing. Luck - aka, random circumstance and how it ends up affecting us - is a huge force in our lives, including in competitions.

Well, maybe I misinterpreted it.  I get what you are saying. Sometimes this is very true.  But I felt like it was an expectation for her to do poorly.  

[Farrar]

Just now, Ting Tang said:

Yep!  She is going to do well.  I feel like I have more faith in her than her mom, lol.  I don't get the public announcement.

Oh, you're clearly reading the word "luck" very differently than me. To me, "luck" is just the fact that skill doesn't account for everything. You can be the best but happen to play on a day where you got sick or where your shoe broke, or you can be the worst but happen to play on a day when the best player is away for a birthday party... I mean, chance is just an element of life. I feel like it's acknowledging that the kid might not do well, or if she does, it wasn't all about skill.

[Ting Tang]

1 minute ago, Farrar said:

Oh, you're clearly reading the word "luck" very differently than me. To me, "luck" is just the fact that skill doesn't account for everything. You can be the best but happen to play on a day where you got sick or where your shoe broke, or you can be the worst but happen to play on a day when the best player is away for a birthday party... I mean, chance is just an element of life. I feel like it's acknowledging that the kid might not do well, or if she does, it wasn't all about skill.

I did misinterpret what you wrote.  Yes, these things can be true, too!  I feel like in the grand scheme of life, it is going to be alright for this little girl.  Unfortunately, whatever stomach bug she got this week is probably going to get passed on to others...  eeks! 

[GoodGrief3]

Some parents take their kids' sports success very personally. I suspect I know the sport to which you are referring, as my kids were in it for many years (and one still coaches.) Parents in this sport tend to be a little...much...in my experience. I think some of it is the amount of money involved. Tends to make many lose perspective.

[Jean in Newcastle]

You don’t know enough about this mother and her relationship with her daughter to judge her. I don’t see anything hugely problematic in what you’ve reported that she wrote. Certainly not enough to condemn her as a bad mother who is not allowing her child to have a childhood. 
 

Are there parents who push their kids too much?  Sure. But a FB post like this isn’t the tell-all sign. 

[footballmom]

You certainly have in person interactions with her that may lead to reading her text / email/ sm post a certain way.  I can think of a few ways to interpret it.  It could also be interpreted that she’s feeling anxious her daughter will have a less than stellar performance and since she’s a high performer she’s looking to remind others to expect less from her daughter, too.

I used to be the super competitive, loud cheering mom.  The today me would have a lot of side eye for the past me and would probably avoid interacting with her.  This mom may grow / change as well and being around other moms that model what unconditional support looks like will help her. 

[HomeAgain]

10 hours ago, Clarita said:

I had a friend who was scouted for football apparently, he was phenomenal. One injury in high school destroyed it. It's definitely a hard path. 

Things like this were part of our approach for ds12.  DH and I have both had devastation where we lost who we were because the main factor in our life was no longer relevant.  We watch it with Olympic athletes - the "what happens now?" after the win and there isn't a next goal to shoot for.  It makes us a little more guarded as to how much we're going to let one thing take precedence in ds's life at such a young age.  We don't want him to feel lost when he realizes these things aren't things there are many adult opportunities for.  Like, who is he without this talent defining him?  We want him to always know who he is and paths he has open to him.

[SKL]

Kids are all so different.  I'd give the mom the benefit of the doubt that she knows what will help her kid.  After all, whatever they've done has worked so far.

I don't like the idea of other kids, for whom the competition is serious, hearing that kind of talk ... that's just inconsiderate and self-centered of the mom, if she did it in front of such other kids.

I totally tell my kids if an activity is more of a warm-up than a competition / crucial test.  Why stress over something that truly does not matter?  Save it for the real competition / test / interview.

[Ting Tang]

I don't think she is a horrible person, a wee bit slimy from past behavior. I think what I dislike is the influence on the entire sport.  I think that is my complaint, everything feels so competitive and sometimes the fun is missing---and I think it should be fun, too!  Sorry if I seem so harsh.  

[lmrich]

Isn't it so much better when winners are humble? 

[JustEm]

3 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I don't think she is a horrible person, a wee bit slimy from past behavior. I think what I dislike is the influence on the entire sport.  I think that is my complaint, everything feels so competitive and sometimes the fun is missing---and I think it should be fun, too!  Sorry if I seem so harsh.  

Who isn't having fun though? Because from my experience, in a wide variety of sports, there are competitive opportunities and more recreational ones. So, if it is the kids not having fun then they should seek out a more recreational team or league. If it the parents projecting that the fun is missing then they are likely too invested in the sport the same way the competitive parent is, just on the opposite side of the issue.

[Ting Tang]

I support my daughter in preparing for competition, but at the end of the day, it is not worth our relationship.  This same mother, however, has denied her daughter access to her awards if she felt she didn't actually deserve them that day.  I've been to events where mothers did yell at their daughters in front of mine, and it made for a toxic environment.  It happens in a lot of the "girl" stuff, and I do think the moms should try doing what their girls do if they're going to be that way, lol.  

[JustEm]

2 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I support my daughter in preparing for competition, but at the end of the day, it is not worth our relationship.  This same mother, however, has denied her daughter access to her awards if she felt she didn't actually deserve them that day.  I've been to events where mothers did yell at their daughters in front of mine, and it made for a toxic environment.  It happens in a lot of the "girl" stuff, and I do think the moms should try doing what their girls do if they're going to be that way, lol.  

If I ever witnessed things like that at a competition I'd be very vocal, so my own child, that parents child, and the rest of them could hear how incredibly inappropriate that behavior. I might not address the parent directly, unless they were being abusive but I'd loudly tell my dr that her behavior was disgusting.

[Ting Tang]

2 hours ago, hjffkj said:

If I ever witnessed things like that at a competition I'd be very vocal, so my own child, that parents child, and the rest of them could hear how incredibly inappropriate that behavior. I might not address the parent directly, unless they were being abusive but I'd loudly tell my dr that her behavior was disgusting.

Absolutely, and it is unfortunate anyone, especially that child, has to be exposed to that.  A hug and "I'm proud of you" is what these girls should be getting from their moms.  I think that is what I have been trying to get at, the toxicity that can stem from it all. I don't feel most people carry on like this, but it just takes one.  😞  

[Dianthus]

What is this, gymnastics?

[Arcadia]

22 minutes ago, Spirea said:

What is this, gymnastics?

I was thinking that or dance. Both are very competitive activities at a young age. My boys did recreational gymnastics for boys only at a gymnastics center and the only recreational gymnastics that girls could take part in then was a mixed/co-ed class. Most girls are in the competition classes. The center’s walls were decorated with photos and short write ups of girls who won academic scholarships to colleges. 

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

I was thinking that or dance. Both are very competitive activities at a young age. My boys did recreational gymnastics for boys only at a gymnastics center and the only recreational gymnastics that girls could take part in then was a mixed/co-ed class. Most girls are in the competition classes. The center’s walls were decorated with photos and short write ups of girls who won academic scholarships to colleges. 

Yes, it is in that genre.  I feel like a lot of kid activities are very competitive.  My youngest nephew plays travel little league baseball all year round. I had no idea baseball happened in December, lol.  It's for the families who can afford to travel to indoor stadiums.

[Arcadia]

14 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Yes, it is in that genre.  I feel like a lot of kid activities are very competitive.  My youngest nephew plays travel little league baseball all year round. I had no idea baseball happened in December, lol.  It's for the families who can afford to travel to indoor stadiums.

Where I am, it is warm enough to play outdoor sports year round. However, I do understand what you are saying.

When we were in San Diego on a vacation during thanksgiving break one year, a group of children competing in gymnastics were staying in the same motel (Travelodge) as us. A few adults were chaperoning. 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

I think I'd need more information to make a judgement.

When I was competing in swimming competitions, I would probably have been told this in a situation like that described. Luck was basically seen as a hidden variable that accounts for the part of performance variability which can't be accounted for by controllable factors like training or fitness. "Warm-up" means that you do it to warm up muscles, get back into the groove of how competitions flow and push yourself while carefully self-monitoring to avoid injury. Such a message would have been code for "You could do well, so give it a good effort, but it's also possible that you can do everything in your power and still get something you are not happy with; don't be too hard on yourself and stay within your body's boundaries". The more straightforward "OK, remember you've been ill, your goal today is simply to go out there and enjoy it, not to bring home a medal" wouldn't have have registered due to competitive instincts; the sentiment would have needed to be couched in competitive terms.

Some other members of the swimming club I was in would definitely not have interpreted the sentence the same way (for various reasons, ranging from attributing "luck" to God or random circumstance, to not seeing the point of doing anything as a metaphorical warm-up). Most of them would have responded better to "OK, remember you've been ill, your goal today is simply to go out there and enjoy it" than what Ting Tang quoted at the start of the thread, if the aim was to encourage a good effort within the body's boundaries. The "not seeing the point of doing anything as a metaphorical warm-up" attitude is, I think, quite close to what Ting Tang was worrying about, and for that sort of child what she quoted would likely cause a more unhealthy attitude to competition, so I can see why Ting Tang is concerned. (Especially since some parents think an degree of competitiveness others find unhealthy is a good thing).

The moral of the story is that one has to encourage and guide the child in front of them. The wise parent's #1 desire at this point would be for their child not to get ill or injured again during the activity, desire #2 for them to have fun, and finding the wording that gets that through to a child is not always an easy task.

[cuckoomamma]

You know this woman personally, so you likely have a more accurate interpretation of where she was coming from. Just on first interpretation from what I’ve seen in my life experiences, I’d agree with the poster who said the mom might be trying to remind others to be supportive of her child and remember that she was ill.

I’ve seen a lot of questionable parent behaviors stem from concern/fear of the perspective of the adults in charge (teachers, coaches). It usually stinks from the top, and the parents react to the less than child friendly judgements being made at the top. Those parents may also just want their child to love the activity, but the adult in charge doesn’t have that perspective. That Facebook message was likely an inelegant way to ask that her child not be judged and wasn’t meant to be a judgement on anyone else. 

[Meriwether]

I really don't understand what the problem is. I mean, I could type any number of responses, but I truly don't know how to address the original post because I don't understand the problem. Most of my kids are fairly successful in a competive sport. My second son has had a crazy year with highs and lows. His most recent low was a sprained ankle that caused him to miss a chance to compete. Missing that made the next (and last) competitions of this season more important. I've made several sm posts over the past couple weeks about the injury, including one on his performance at the tournament yesterday. The injury is a Big Deal in the sense that it may keep him from competing for a world championship. We had to make costly decisions (big tournament in a few weeks) before he could put weight on his ankle. If he does well at the tournament coming up it will be in large part due to luck. That would have been true even before he got hurt. He can do well. He won an equivalent tournament last fall. But any given day, one of the other talented guys competing might carry the day. Things I have said that are similar to what you mentioned, "...if he is lucky" and "this is a learning year" (not even a warm up competition, a learning year). I don't understand what you think that means, but I guarantee you my main concern yesterday wasn't my gimpy 15 year old who may have put himself out of competing for a world title by trying to spin dunk on a friend's basketball hoop. It was my seven year old who has a hard time moving on when she messes up. We had a good talk today that may have finally made an impression on her - we compete to have fun, mistakes help us learn, losing (or winning!) a competition doesn't affect your worth as a person. 

[shawthorne44]

On 3/25/2022 at 8:14 PM, Clarita said:

I had a friend who was scouted for football apparently, he was phenomenal. One injury in high school destroyed it. It's definitely a hard path. 

Same with my husband.   One injury early in college deliberately caused by someone else.  The sad thing is that DH had full-ride offers for both academic and sports, including at the big state school he chose.   But he wanted to play so he took the sport one.   I had an academic scholarship and it was within my control.   I needed 30 hours a year at 3.0+.   

[freesia]

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