DawnM Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Last night I went to a dinner with my bible study friends. It was at one of their houses. Anyway, two ladies I have known for years start talking. I am at the table with them as are some other ladies. Keep in mind, Lady A (I will call her Sally) is very reserved and non-assertive, while Lady B (I will call her Agnes) is very vocal, very assertive, etc.....both are retirement age and recently retired. Sally and her husband just retired. She would like to move to a retirement center in a low cost of living area where several friends have already moved to. Her husband, on the other hand, wants to move to a very HCOL area, where he is originally from, even if it means struggling financially. Sally hates the crowds, the cost of the living, the business of the city, etc....and has expressed to her husband that she wants something quiet, with some friends, away from the city, and with a lower cost of living. Agnes chimes in and railroads the conversation, telling Sally, "You tell him you aren't doing it! You put your foot down!~. You tell him if he wants to go to the city thousands of miles away, he can darn well go alone, but you are not going with him and you WILL go live in the retirement place you want to live in." Agnes proceeded to go on and on about her own disagreement with her husband over retirement and how she said things to her husband like, :"Absolutely NOT! We are doing X, not Y, like you want." I could FEEL Sally's mental retreat from across the table. That is not her personality at all. Nor does she want to live thousands of miles away from her husband. She ended up just not saying any more because it wasn't worth the discussion. What I WANTED to say was, "Agnes! You know that isn't Sally's personality and she is looking for a solution, not a way to fight her husband!" But I didn't know what to say other than, "Sally, it is so hard when you don't agree on something as significant as where to live." Should I have said more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyacinth Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 I don’t know what you could’ve said in the moment, but if you’re able, maybe text or call Sally and say something like, “I know Agnes derailed your topic the other day. I’m open to hearing more about your thoughts on retirement if you’d like a non-judgmental ear.” 22 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 I agree with Hyacinth. I don't think I could have thought of anything to say or do either, except maybe change the topic. I think it would be nice to reach out to Sally and ask if she'd like to go out and have lunch or a cup of coffee and just talk. Maybe she just wants someone to listen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 I agree that there wasn’t really anything else you could do on the moment. On the other hand, my parents are going through something similar. My dad wanted to move into assisted living and my mom refused, so he decided to move in on his own. It took nearly a year and moving to a different facility before she would agree to move with him. (My mom was the difficult one in this. The both needed the increased level of care for different reasons) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
math teacher Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 I agree. A lunch date alone with Sally would be a great way to help her process her feelings with someone she trusts. If I had been shut down like that, I'm not sure I would want to open up to these friends again. You could really make a difference for her. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 No. It was more polite to stay quiet, just like you did. The situation didn’t call for comment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Agnes has such a strong personality, she was unlikely to quit just because you stepped in. I agree you can call Sally, being there as a sounding board for her if she wants. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) Meh, no. I don’t think it’s anyones job to police adult’s conversations. And frankly I probably come off more like Sally in a group setting, but am pragmatic and independent, listening to someone bluster like that wouldn’t hurt my feelings or bother me. It would have me doing an Internal eye roll and trying to turn to the cheese dip as a topic. So I think it could also easily come off as condescending if someone swooped in trying to save the day. I do think if you would have interjected along the lines of “interesting Agnes, I’m personally excited to retire with my husband no matter where we land. I expect we will be considering and discussing a bit before a final decision is made. But wow, who made this salad so good.” Something along those lines could have taken the wind out of her sails a bit. I’ve gotten better with this kind of thing over time. I read someone like Agnes as just someone who likes drama and bluster, she is projecting her own feelings and process on everyone and I do wonder if she’d really leave her husband at the end of the day if they had a difference of opinion like this. I suspect Mr Agnes is a patient man. 🤣 I agree following up with Sally is a nice idea if you have a good one on one relationship with her. That said, I think it is fine if you don’t too. Edited March 20, 2022 by catz 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 6 hours ago, DawnM said: I could FEEL Sally's mental retreat from across the table. That is not her personality at all. Nor does she want to live thousands of miles away from her husband. She ended up just not saying any more because it wasn't worth the discussion. What I WANTED to say was, "Agnes! You know that isn't Sally's personality and she is looking for a solution, not a way to fight her husband!" But I didn't know what to say other than, "Sally, it is so hard when you don't agree on something as significant as where to live." Should I have said more? More, no. What you wanted to say probably would've been fine. What you wanted to say acknowledged the person in the predicament and the person indignant on her behalf while also redirecting the conversation away from a solution that is not suitable. Sometimes indignant advice that's truly meant as supportive (but is not helpful for the person receiving it) can be redirected to help the person it's aimed at. It depends on how cognitively flexible the involved parties are. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Although Sally is reserved and non-assertive, she probably understands Agnes' personality and that what Agnes says doesn't need to impact what Sally does. It's also possible that Agnes doesn't even mean what she's saying. Does she really think Sally should separate from her husband? Or threaten him with that? I kinda doubt it. The only thing I would have said ... if I'd thought of it at the time ... would be something like "hopefully you'll find a middle ground that you could both agree on." 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Oh, interesting that everyone is saying no. I disagree. I've known lots of Agneses. My mom is kind of an Agnes. I absolutely think a polite, kind to everyone interjection to awareness that we all approach things differently and that it's Sally's issue so maybe hearing a little more from her would be good... I mean, I think that would have been welcome by Sally and would have been welcome by a lot of the Agneses of the world as well. And also would not be a big deal. I mean, if Agnes took offense at "I don't know if that's really how Sally does things. Sally, what do you think?" then she's thin skinned indeed. Of course, you didn't say anything in the moment, which is fine. People can dominate conversation and we don't always think on our feet and I like the idea of following up with Sally later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittany1116 Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Wellll I have been an Agnes and a Sally at times. Agnes is usually well-meaning with subpar execution, and usually speaking from personal experience. Agnes reminds me of some of the people on this board and others at times. Sally is surely old enough and wise enough to know to take that advice with a grain of salt. And if they are close friends (you didn't say, or I missed it) she'll know more about why Agnes responded the way she did (which you remarked on) and it won't be a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa Louise Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 I would 100% come across as a Sally irl and it would be beyond condescending for a friend to step in to 'save' me. Just because I'm being quiet and polite about it doesn't mean I'm downtrodden and in need of assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa Louise Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 But also, Agnes is kinda right. The dh is being selfish. I might even take a bit of fortitude from Agnes being so outraged on my behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said: But also, Agnes is kinda right. The dh is being selfish. I might even take a bit of fortitude from Agnes being so outraged on my behalf. But do we even know this is true? Unless I suspect a friend is actually in a bad situation with a repeated situations of spousal bad behavoir I would default to thinking that there are pros and cons to each setting for retirement, I hope Sally and her spouse can come to an agreement. There are quieter retirement communities near urban centers. There can be benefits like health care access being closer to an urban center or the ability to use transit. He may feel they have more support there or whatever. Maybe he doesn't enjoy the "friends" she wants to settle near. Or maybe he is just musing at this point and hasn't even thought it all the way through or it will be a non issue in a few months, who knows. My parents chose a retirement community with local friends. And then clicked better with some others in the community once they were settled in. Which means if that hadn't taken that into account, a lot more options may have worked well for them including some more affordable options. The finance angle may mean she wants a house with room for every visiting relative and he is fine with a small condo. I just wouldn't even assume I knew enough about the situation to judge if someone brought this up but had other indications of a reasonably happy marriage. Sometimes people may just want to vent when something is on their mind without it being a really world altering problem. I definitely don't think people should always need to keep their mouths shut. I really think it's fine either way. It's just certainly no reason to feel guilty or that the OP failed Sally. I think what she said was appropriate and supportive. It can be hard to think on your feet in those situations. But I do agree, some responses could come off as condescending if someone is just shutting up to shut it down. I think a deflection and pass the cheese dip type interjection can work well in situations like this. Edited March 20, 2022 by catz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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