Changing the beneficiary (and question)

[DawnM]

UGH!   Without going in to too much detail.....my dad has IRA accounts.   Yesterday I called one of them to get info on how to withdraw some $$ for his care and the woman was so nice.   She looked at it and said, "The sole beneficiary of this account is the organization your parents worked with overseas."

I said, "WHAT?"   

So, years and years ago, I remember my parents feeling pressured to make this organization their beneficiary for one or more of their accounts, but I remember my mom saying she didn't want that because she wanted to make sure her grandchildren got something.

I came home and told dad what she had said and he said, "Absolutely not!   YOU are the beneficiary!"   

So, now, we need to go through ALL of his accounts and call and see what is going on.

Is it as easy as getting a notary to sign to change?  

DH says on his account, he can go do it online and no notary is necessary.    Dad has nothing online, although if it is that easy, maybe we need to create some online accounts for his IRAs.

We will be calling them again and asking, but I thought maybe you all would know.

Edited March 19, 2022 by DawnM

[Melissa in Australia]

So sorry

 what a mess

[DawnM]

10 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

So sorry

 what a mess

Thanks, although I am glad we are catching it NOW and not after my dad is gone.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It really depends on the company that manages the accounts.  Ours requires paper forms to be filled out.  Some others are all online with computerized signatures. 

[mlktwins]

Sent you a PM

[Pawz4me]

I don't recall ever needing a notary to change our beneficiary designations (we changed all of ours once our sons became "old enough" adults). Some we did on paper, some were able to be done online. But none of it required a notary, just filling out a new form and signing/dating.

I'm so glad you found out about this now!

Edited March 19, 2022 by Pawz4me

[mom@shiloh]

I recently had to move my husband's IRA account into my name and it wasn't hard at all. They will probably send you a form for him to fill out.

[LifeLovePassion]

You might be able to print a form and send it in. It's possible he could call the company and change it on the phone. Once he calls he can authorize them to talk to you as well. 

[wintermom]

So sorry you have to go through this. Yes, it's probably going to be much easier with your dad still alive. 

You may want to start going through his other financial and legal documents now as well. If you can put in place things now to make your life easier once he passes that would be wonderful. I'd start with the will and do what you can to make sure that there is only one will. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by wintermom

[Lanny]

5 hours ago, DawnM said:

<snip

Is it as easy as getting a notary to sign to change?  

DH says on his account, he can go do it online and no notary is necessary.    Dad has nothing online, although if it is that easy, maybe we need to create some online accounts for his IRAs.

We will be calling them again and asking, but I thought maybe you all would know.

I would NEVER expect an insurance company or bank or other financial services company to accept a Notarized Statement.

I suggest that you contact all of the companies he has investments with and request change of Beneficiary forms be sent to him.

Then after they are filled out return them to each company.

Request that they acknowledge that they have updated the Beneficiary by sending you confirmation for your files.

[Lanny]

23 minutes ago, wintermom said:

So sorry you have to go through this. Yes, it's probably going to be much easier with your dad still alive. 

You may want to start going through his other financial and legal documents now as well. If you can put in place things now to make your life easier once he passes that would be wonderful. I'd start with the will and do what you can to make sure that there is only one will. 

This is critical: He moved from one state (AZ?) to another state which is NC.

His old will from AZ is worthless.

He needs a new Will that conforms with NC state laws.

If he does not have a Will that conforms with NC State laws the court will write one for him. The state has already done that. Probably it would not do what the Father of the OP would like to be done. 

[Grace Hopper]

Wow, glad you caught that!

This happened to one account I dealt with. Despite being POA (financial and medical), making a change to the account required forms that had to be notarized. Fortunately it’s not hard to do, but it would add something to your already busy to-do list. 
 

I imagine policies differ so check with each individually. Elderly people are often targets of financial fraud so anything that has to do with retirement accounts, life insurance and even burial fund investments may be more closely watched and require notarized forms. 
 

While you’re at it, it might be a good idea to pull a credit report and see how much open credit is out there. Might be some accounts you could formally close (old credit cards, etc) to lessen the chance of identity theft. 

[DawnM]

7 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Wow, glad you caught that!

This happened to one account I dealt with. Despite being POA (financial and medical), making a change to the account required forms that had to be notarized. Fortunately it’s not hard to do, but it would add something to your already busy to-do list. 
 

I imagine policies differ so check with each individually. Elderly people are often targets of financial fraud so anything that has to do with retirement accounts, life insurance and even burial fund investments may be more closely watched and require notarized forms. 
 

While you’re at it, it might be a good idea to pull a credit report and see how much open credit is out there. Might be some accounts you could formally close (old credit cards, etc) to lessen the chance of identity theft. 

Oh, I didn't think of that.   I can do that online can't I?

[DawnM]

26 minutes ago, Lanny said:

This is critical: He moved from one state (AZ?) to another state which is NC.

His old will from AZ is worthless.

He needs a new Will that conforms with NC state laws.

If he does not have a Will that conforms with NC State laws the court will write one for him. The state has already done that. Probably it would not do what the Father of the OP would like to be done. 

I don't believe this to be the case.   There was never a will in AZ, the will was drafted and signed in Indiana, where my parents' mission agency is.   

If your last will and testament was created and signed with the proper formalities as required by the laws of your former state, it should still be considered valid in your new state. 

[Grace Hopper]

31 minutes ago, Lanny said:

This is critical: He moved from one state (AZ?) to another state which is NC.

His old will from AZ is worthless.

He needs a new Will that conforms with NC state laws.

If he does not have a Will that conforms with NC State laws the court will write one for him. The state has already done that. Probably it would not do what the Father of the OP would like to be done. 

We had a relocation to a new state and had the existing will examined by a lawyer in the new state, who said it was close enough in form that it would still be an acceptable document in the new state. As it turned out, there were few assets left at the time of death and there was no need to even open probate, so I’m glad we did not pay the cost to draw up a new will.

But yes, since DawnM’s father appears to have assets, it would be a good thing to ask her/her father’s lawyer about. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[Grace Hopper]

4 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Oh, I didn't think of that.   I can do that online can't I?

Yes, it should be easy to do online. I forget the names of the companies that do this but there are two or three that are well recognized and Google should turn them up for you. 

[DawnM]

13 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Yes, it should be easy to do online. I forget the names of the companies that do this but there are two or three that are well recognized and Google should turn them up for you. 

I want a reputable one recommended if anyone knows one.   Google isn't always really reliable to weed out scams.

[Pawz4me]

Everyone can get one free credit report from each of the three main credit reporting agencies (Experian, TransUnion and Equifax) once a year. Many people do one every four months in order to keep close watch in their credit. So (for example) Experian in January, TransUnion in May, Equifax in September. Then start over the next year. 

[DawnM]

14 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Everyone can get one free credit report from each of the three main credit reporting agencies (Experian, TransUnion and Equifax) once a year. Many people do one every four months in order to keep close watch in their credit. So (for example) Experian in January, TransUnion in May, Equifax in September. Then start over the next year. 

Is this an official site?   I am so worried I am going to go to a site that was created to "look like" an official site and put personal info in there.
 

https://www.equifax.com/personal/education/credit/score/how-to-check-credit-score/

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

Is this an official site?   I am so worried I am going to go to a site that was created to "look like" an official site and put personal info in there.
 

https://www.equifax.com/personal/education/credit/score/how-to-check-credit-score/

My bank gives me access to my credit report. His bank might as well. 

[kbutton]

Does he have a trust? If so, the trust might be a better beneficiary. 

I would get an estate attorney. We used a general attorney for wills and a trust, but then we found out they didn't do a great job. The estate attorney experience was totally different. 

[elegantlion]

Credit Karma also is a good place to track credit. It only has two of the three credit reporting agencies though. 

[Scarlett]

https://www.annualcreditreport.com/index.action
 

I am pretty sure this is the official one. Can someone confirm?

[TechWife]

I don't think this will be hard. He needs to contact the bank and ask for the correct form, sign it and return it. Only get it notarized if they require it.

I'll disagree with @Lanny here - the will isn't invalid just because it was written in another state. It may need updating for different reasons, but that's not always a cause to update a will by itself.

Has he signed financial power of attorney papers so you can take care of his business? If not, please talk to him about that. It's needed in the most unexpected places. Medical, too, of course.

I'm so glad you found out about this now! Honestly, ministry organizations that push people, especially those also in ministry, to assign stock, insurance and other benefits that transfer at death drive me nuts.

[Pawz4me]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

Is this an official site?   I am so worried I am going to go to a site that was created to "look like" an official site and put personal info in there.
 

https://www.equifax.com/personal/education/credit/score/how-to-check-credit-score/

If you Googled "Equifax credit score report" or something similar and that site came up it should be the correct one. Make sure it has the "https" prefix.

 

17 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

https://www.annualcreditreport.com/index.action
 

I am pretty sure this is the official one. Can someone confirm?

Yes. You can get the report(s) through there or through the individual reporting services.

[TechWife]

Clark Howard's site has these helpful links about getting credit reports:

https://clark.com/credit/free-credit-report/

His site is full of reputable, helpful information.

 

 

[katilac]

I would also put a freeze on his credit; one less thing to worry about. It's easy enough to lift when needed. 

Everyone should go double-check their beneficiaries right now, especially if you are on a second marriage. I know someone who married a man who had gone through a very bitter divorce. He died unexpectedly, and she found out the hard way that he never changed the beneficiary on his life insurance policy. He would never have wanted anyone but his current wife to get the money, but they didn't do a paperwork and finance check when they got married. The check went to the ex, because her name was on the dotted line. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Annual credit report is the correct. You can verify this through the FTC website.

[DawnM]

Well, I ran the credit report and it turned up nothing, no assets.   It only lists his credit card and one bank account.   So, that was not helpful.

[DawnM]

Please say a prayer.......we have been searching for the Will for 2 hours in the hot attic and we can't find it.   Dad says he has a copy, but we can't find it.

[Pawz4me]

Just now, DawnM said:

Well, I ran the credit report and it turned up nothing, no assets.   It only lists his credit card and one bank account.   So, that was not helpful.

Credit reports don't list assets. It showed you that there's no hinky credit stuff out there, and that's good.

[Carol in Cal.]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

Please say a prayer.......we have been searching for the Will for 2 hours in the hot attic and we can't find it.   Dad says he has a copy, but we can't find it.

Does he remember the name of the lawyer who wrote it?  You can contact them for a copy although it’s not valid that way but at least you would know what was in it.  Then move on from there to get a valid one.

[DawnM]

Just now, Carol in Cal. said:

Does he remember the name of the lawyer who wrote it?  You can contact them for a copy although it’s not valid that way but at least you would know what was in it.  Then move on from there to get a valid one.

Nope

[prairiewindmomma]

Fingers crossed for you.

Can I suggest gathering important documents into a binder or flex file while you are doing this? Will, medical directives, health care proxy, power of attorney, last years’ taxes, mom’s death certificate, etc.? No sense in making multiple searches as various needs arise in the future…

[prairiewindmomma]

Add the credit report to show no hinky loans to the binder. Taxes should show assets that generated income.

[DawnM]

4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Fingers crossed for you.

Can I suggest gathering important documents into a binder or flex file while you are doing this? Will, medical directives, health care proxy, power of attorney, last years’ taxes, mom’s death certificate, etc.? No sense in making multiple searches as various needs arise in the future…

We keep things as we find them in our safe.   The POA is there, etc....

[BusyMom5]

Honestly I'd be calling Monday morning for a new will, get all assets and accounts listed, and do those TOD.  He may not need a trust if all his assets are liquid and can be TOD.

[DawnM]

32 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

Honestly I'd be calling Monday morning for a new will, get all assets and accounts listed, and do those TOD.  He may not need a trust if all his assets are liquid and can be TOD.

Call the notary or call an attorney?  

An attorney would probably be a while and we can't get dad out anywhere, so not sure what to do about that.

 

 

[LifeLovePassion]

22 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Call the notary or call an attorney?  

An attorney would probably be a while and we can't get dad out anywhere, so not sure what to do about that.

 

 

Attorney. We had one that specialized in seniors and visited mom at her assisted living facility where she moved after my dad passed.

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

Well, I ran the credit report and it turned up nothing, no assets.   It only lists his credit card and one bank account.   So, that was not helpful.

It was very helpful! It helped you to ensure there were no open accounts. No surprises later.  Peace of mind for free, kwim? 

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

 

[Grace Hopper]

You probably need an estate attorney to review the old will or draw up a new one if the old cannot be found. A good elder law attorney can also help you to organize finances in the proper way, especially if you may be applying to any kind of managed care living situation. 
 

Personally, however, I would not wait to find out about changing that beneficiary. Ask if there’s a limit to how often it can be changed (on the off but not impossible chance that the investment company limits changes to once a year or something like that), and if you can both change it on Monday and then, after consulting with an attorney, change something else at her/his recommendation…. well I would not wait if you don’t have to. 
 

And yes I think it’s somewhat unscrupulous for ministry organizations to push their missionaries into signing over their retirement accounts. 

[Beth S]

Yes, checking/updating beneficiaries is time-consuming but essential.
Some updates are online, some are a form you print out & mail in.
Yes, it's helpful to create online accounts for those you can.
(This may require emailing them your POA document)

Mainly you don't know when cognitive decline will set in . . . and then it gets very complicated.

This is such a blessing that you stumbled upon this.
It was a very similar situation for us (as POA for our parents).

Consider getting advice from an estate planning attorney and a CPA (after tax season concludes).
You will need these professionals when it's time to settle the estate (eventually), so building a relationship now is helpful.
(Yes, a Rabbit Trail!)

Thank you for caring for your Dad.

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Beth S

[TechWife]

26 minutes ago, LifeLovePassion said:

Attorney. We had one that specialized in seniors and visited mom at her assisted living facility where she moved after my dad passed.

This. We spoke with the attorney on the phone about what was needed and the attorney's paralegal came to our house with the needed documents. She was able to explain everything and the attorney was available by phone if needed.

ETA: Attorneys also sometimes use couriers to carry papers back and forth between the office & clients. The attorney's office will know how to get it done. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by TechWife

[TechWife]

12 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

...

Personally, however, I would not wait to find out about changing that beneficiary. Ask if there’s a limit to how often it can be changed (on the off but not impossible chance that the investment company limits changes to once a year or something like that), and if you can both change it on Monday and then, after consulting with an attorney, change something else at her/his recommendation…. well I would not wait if you don’t have to. 
...

I agree, here. Change the beneficiary as soon as you can. Although different, I ran into issues with paperwork about my father when my mother had a brain hemhorrage and died five weeks after dad died. She was in the hospital, on hospice in a coma and my husband and I were doing paperwork as her POA to get the last of my dad's life insurance claim done and his small pension re-assigned to my mom before she died. Thankfully my husband was able to call out of work and do the physical running around - filing the paperwork with an agent face to face instead of mailing it in and sending the pension info overnight. The crush was, if we didn't do it before she died, we would have had to wait for her will to go into probate before I could do any of that as the executor. There's a small period where nothing can be done because a POA expires at death. In the state where my parents lived, the POA could make funeral arrangments, but nothing else. The rest was up to the executor. The will had to be filed with probate court, they signed off on me being the executor (I was named in the will) and with the letter from the court I was able to do everything else. If we hadn't done that paperwork, then the life insurance beneficiary would have become Mom's estate and the payout would be taxable income for the estate. Because she was alive when dh filed the paperwork, she was the beneficiary and payouts to individual beneficiaries are not taxable income.  The insurance agent was wonderful - he called about the check and they actually issued it within 48 hours. There are a lot of moving parts. It was awful.

Another thing you will want to do is have your name added to all of his bank accounts as a joint holder of the account. This will prevent the account being frozen when he dies. If you do not do this, his SSN will be reported by the funeral home and as it works it's way through the system, it will freeze his bank accounts. You will not be able to get to them until you have finished the paperwork to be the executor of the estate. Then, as the executor, you will be able to get them unfrozen and the funds moved into an estate account. If you are a joint holder, you don't get frozen out at all because the joint account has right to survivor-ship. Of course, this kind of thing may vary by state. If you call the bank, they will know the laws for the state re:freezing accounts on death. Although, those may be federal laws, IDK.

So very many moving parts. I'm glad you are getting a start now.

[fairfarmhand]

49 minutes ago, LifeLovePassion said:

Attorney. We had one that specialized in seniors and visited mom at her assisted living facility where she moved after my dad passed.

Yes, this is not unusual. My FIL had one who came to arrange everything at his home because he couldn't get out either. Elder care or estate attorney. Both should be able to get you the answers you need,

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, katilac said:

I would also put a freeze on his credit; one less thing to worry about. It's easy enough to lift when needed. 

Everyone should go double-check their beneficiaries right now, especially if you are on a second marriage. I know someone who married a man who had gone through a very bitter divorce. He died unexpectedly, and she found out the hard way that he never changed the beneficiary on his life insurance policy. He would never have wanted anyone but his current wife to get the money, but they didn't do a paperwork and finance check when they got married. The check went to the ex, because her name was on the dotted line. 

You need to make sure you take the divorce paperwork with you too. My grandparents divorced and neither remarried, though my grandfather had a partner for decades. He intentionally made my grandmother his life insurance beneficiary, but it turned out that she was not entitled to that in the divorce, and he didn't know. It worked out--because neither had remarried, she gets his social security. 

[DawnM]

What I am reading online is that the Will actually doesn't matter when it comes to beneficiaries on accounts.   So, I guess I will need to make sure and take care of all of that on Monday morning.

He thinks he will die soon.   I am not sure he is wrong, but I need him to make it through this week!

[mlktwins]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

What I am reading online is that the Will actually doesn't matter when it comes to beneficiaries on accounts.   So, I guess I will need to make sure and take care of all of that on Monday morning.

He thinks he will die soon.   I am not sure he is wrong, but I need him to make it through this week!

Yes.  Beneficiaries on specific accounts bypass the will!

[katilac]

47 minutes ago, kbutton said:

He intentionally made my grandmother his life insurance beneficiary, but it turned out that she was not entitled to that in the divorce, and he didn't know. It worked out--because neither had remarried, she gets his social security. 

I don't quite understand this - you can make anyone your beneficiary.