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Taking Dad to the doctor tomorrow

DawnM

By DawnM,
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DawnM

DawnM

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UGH.

So, he is in A-fib.   They ran the EKG twice.   Dad argued with them about it.   UM, Dad, you have pitting edema in your legs and you came here thinking you had a heart problem, they are telling you that you do and you are arguing that you don't!

And they want to do an imaging of his kidney as there is concern the kidney cancer is back.   Dad refused.   There is protein and blood in his urine, and it has been there for a while as his urine showed it 6 months ago.   They have reason to ask you to do a simple scan, but you won't do it.

WHY did you want me to take you to the doctor again?   What was the point? 🙄

We were there for 3 hours!

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DawnM

DawnM

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4 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

So sorry he in uncooperative.  That makes everything so much harder.  Is he afraid of what they will find?

I have no idea.

It just made no sense as to why we were there if he wouldn't do anything they said!

They are sending him to a cardiologist and I told him he IS GOING!

Meanwhile, he almost fell getting out of the car and the car caught him.   

He is NOT WELL.

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Grace Hopper

Grace Hopper

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Given a little time, he may be more cooperative. I hope so, for your sake. Battling cancer is a traumatic life experience and a recurrence takes time to process, especially if the initial treatment involved drastic measures (like chemo with awful side effects).

Glad you caught the Afib. You are a good daughter, Dawn, this is a really hard season to walk through. 

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DawnM

DawnM

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No, he doesn't have a pacemaker.  He swears he has no heart problems and that everyone "gets excited" over his EKGs and blood pressure but that he is fine.

THEN WHY did you say, "I need to see the doctor, I think it is my heart.

Doctor is sending him to the memory doctor too.   He will really be upset about that.   

OH WELL

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itsheresomewhere

itsheresomewhere

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Good luck.  The family member I deal with is just as difficult.  My favorite lines as to why she doesn’t want to do those test and maybe it might be your dad’s too-  They are just looking for problems as they like my insurance as they have always praised my results. Or the these tests are for old people and I am not old ( she is knocking at 90). 

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BusyMom5

BusyMom5

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Hugs, I'm sorry.  Caring for the elderly is hard.  I would probably let him decide if he wants to know about cancer or not.  If he has chosen not to do more treatments, it probably doesn't matter if he does the scan or not.  I do think our medical system tries too hard to cure everyone of everything instead of asking about quality of life.   I have had family who say okay to pills, not with any other treatments,  and I respect that. Others don't want to hear a timeline for their disease.  From all that you have posted, it sounds like he is going through a difficult time adjusting to his failing body.  

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matrips

matrips

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My mom and dad wanted to go to the doctors for a cure.  To feel better.  Quickly and simply.  It took a long time for them to realize it wouldn’t work like that.  Remember, they revert back to childhood in many ways.  And in childhood (simplistically, not serious childhood illnesses)you went to a doctor, got some medicine, and felt better. 
 

your dad wants to feel better.  He wants it to be a simple and fast cure.

at least from my own experience

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Grace Hopper

Grace Hopper

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2 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

Hugs, I'm sorry.  Caring for the elderly is hard.  I would probably let him decide if he wants to know about cancer or not.  If he has chosen not to do more treatments, it probably doesn't matter if he does the scan or not.  I do think our medical system tries too hard to cure everyone of everything instead of asking about quality of life.   I have had family who say okay to pills, not with any other treatments,  and I respect that. Others don't want to hear a timeline for their disease.  From all that you have posted, it sounds like he is going through a difficult time adjusting to his failing body.  

I agree with you - people should have the freedom to decline unwanted treatment and accept a natural death. However, not all elders are of sound mind in a way that they have a full understanding of the consequences. 
 

Dawn, perhaps that would be a “selling” point to get your dad to cooperate with the neurologist. “Dad, this is the doctor who is going to verify that you are competent to make medical decisions for yourself.” You know him best, perhaps that would backfire but maybe some form of that statement would help?

In any case, I hope the cardiologist and neurologist appointments are able to be scheduled quickly. 

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Spryte

Spryte

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4 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

Hugs, I'm sorry.  Caring for the elderly is hard.  I would probably let him decide if he wants to know about cancer or not.  If he has chosen not to do more treatments, it probably doesn't matter if he does the scan or not.  I do think our medical system tries too hard to cure everyone of everything instead of asking about quality of life.   I have had family who say okay to pills, not with any other treatments,  and I respect that. Others don't want to hear a timeline for their disease.  From all that you have posted, it sounds like he is going through a difficult time adjusting to his failing body.  

Yes, everyone needs autonomy. And time to process what’s happening. We went a similar route with some of my MIL’s issues. She has stage 4 kidney disease (or did, when it was last checked) and refused to see a nephrologist. Also refused a neuro. We insisted on and DH almost dragged her to the cardiologist. 

The difference, though, that I see is that my MIL was sitting in a chair in her AL apartment with on call nurses and people checking on her every hour and delivering her meds. Her basic treatment for all conditions was covered by the in house doc. DH and I did not have to be the ones caring for her needs hour by hour, with those needs exponentially increasing (she’s now in a nursing home, still refusing treatment and we honor her wishes).

When my mother lived with us, we had an agreement that she would follow all doc recommendations because she wanted to live with us. Refusing to follow doc’s orders would lead to her care needs increasing to the point that I couldn’t care for her, so she was compliant and motivated. I don’t know what I’d have done if she refused treatment. 

It’s such a hard situation. 

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Catwoman

Catwoman

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20 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

Hugs, I'm sorry.  Caring for the elderly is hard.  I would probably let him decide if he wants to know about cancer or not.  If he has chosen not to do more treatments, it probably doesn't matter if he does the scan or not.  I do think our medical system tries too hard to cure everyone of everything instead of asking about quality of life.   I have had family who say okay to pills, not with any other treatments,  and I respect that. Others don't want to hear a timeline for their disease.  From all that you have posted, it sounds like he is going through a difficult time adjusting to his failing body.  

The only reason I disagree with you is because the scan might not show a recurrence of his cancer; it could also show that something else is the problem, and that something else might be easily treatable. 

I agree that if his cancer is back and he doesn’t want to treat it, that’s up to him (and Dawn, because he may not be entirely capable of making this decision on his own right now) as to how to deal with it. 

Also, without a diagnosis, if he is eventually in a lot of pain or feels horribly ill from the disease, he may have a hard time getting the medications and treatments he may need to keep him comfortable.

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TechWife

TechWife

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16 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I think that sounds like dementia maybe. We get sometimes similar talk from MIL. Insists she wants to see x, y, z specialist and then argue with them. It is so hard! Many hugs and good thoughts, Dawn. 💓

It is common among all elderly people and isn’t a characteristic of dementia. It isn’t even isolated to elderly people. All doctors have their fair share of “non compliant” patients. 

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HS Mom in NC

HS Mom in NC

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2 hours ago, DawnM said:

It just made no sense as to why we were there if he wouldn't do anything they said!

My guess is dad wanted the doctor to confirm what dad thinks is going on with his heart.  When dad didn't hear what he wanted, he got upset and argued with the doctor.

We live in a weird society where most don't talk about death in general, their own deaths specifically, and what they think would make their own deaths as good as possible, so when they have to starting facing up to the very real possibility that death is around the corner, they're emotionally unprepared for it. It's too bad. If we spend time talking about it all along the way, my guess is it's easier to hear, process, and deal with as death nears.

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Faith-manor

Faith-manor

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19 minutes ago, TechWife said:

It is common among all elderly people and isn’t a characteristic of dementia. It isn’t even isolated to elderly people. All doctors have their fair share of “non compliant” patients. 

Okay then. I was just speaking from our experience, and this was a new personality change for MIL when it began happening, and was dementia. Sorry to offend.

Edited by Faith-manor
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TravelingChris

TravelingChris

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2 hours ago, matrips said:

My mom and dad wanted to go to the doctors for a cure.  To feel better.  Quickly and simply.  It took a long time for them to realize it wouldn’t work like that.  Remember, they revert back to childhood in many ways.  And in childhood (simplistically, not serious childhood illnesses)you went to a doctor, got some medicine, and felt better. 
 

your dad wants to feel better.  He wants it to be a simple and fast cure.

at least from my own experience

I was at my rheumatologists today. I told her that my Enbrel is working well.  Yes, I still have problems but I know there isn't a magic cure  and it is working to make me get out of bed without trouble and also to stop dropping things.  Yes, I still have pain on bad weather days, for example, like today.  It is okay  though.

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Tree Frog

Tree Frog

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One advantage of seeing the doctor is being given choices to treat or for hospice. When MIL learned her cancer had spread, she had several choices ranging from hard hitting chemo to hospice. Because she had the freedom to choose hospice, she was a much more compliant patient. However, MIL was willing to face her death and, in fact, welcomed it. If the patient is afraid of the diagnosis and death, I'm not sure they would choose hospice. I was very thankful for hospice. MIL's nurse was a godsend when we needed it.

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DawnM

DawnM

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1 hour ago, HS Mom in NC said:

My guess is dad wanted the doctor to confirm what dad thinks is going on with his heart.  When dad didn't hear what he wanted, he got upset and argued with the doctor.

We live in a weird society where most don't talk about death in general, their own deaths specifically, and what they think would make their own deaths as good as possible, so when they have to starting facing up to the very real possibility that death is around the corner, they're emotionally unprepared for it. It's too bad. If we spend time talking about it all along the way, my guess is it's easier to hear, process, and deal with as death nears.

But he said, "I have pitting edema, I am pretty sure I am having heart problems".  so he knew he did......and then still argued.

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sassenach

sassenach

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Afib is exceedingly common in his age group. He shouldn't need a pacemaker. They'll want to put him on an anticoagulant because the biggest problem with afib is blood clots that lead to stroke. Other than that, I would not spend any time worrying about it.

As for the scan, I would let that rest for a few days and then see if he's more amenable. He might have just been overwhelmed. 

 

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