Camilla will be Queen?

[Scarlett]

Did I hear that correctly on the news this morning?

[marbel]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60274816

Headline:

Queen backs Camilla to be Queen Consort on Jubilee

When I saw your post, I thought Queen Elizabeth had died.  I don't follow Royal news much but I had always had the impression that Charles was going to be skipped over - either by his choice or by the Queen's, I don't know.  

[gardenmom5]

33 minutes ago, marbel said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60274816

Headline:

Queen backs Camilla to be Queen Consort on Jubilee

When I saw your post, I thought Queen Elizabeth had died.  I don't follow Royal news much but I had always had the impression that Charles was going to be skipped over - either by his choice or by the Queen's, I don't know.  

That was never going to happen.  There are people who are disgusted with Charles and many have suggested he be skipped in favor of William - but as the laws of succession are written - he will become King when his mother dies.  (unless by some fluke he predeceases her.)

[Laura Corin]

3 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

That was never going to happen.  There are people who are disgusted with Charles and many have suggested he be skipped in favor of William - but as the laws of succession are written - he will become King when his mother dies.  (unless by some fluke he predeceases her.)

Or unless he decides to remove himself from the succession. 

[Fritz]

3 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Or unless he decides to remove himself from the succession. 

That will never happen. It's a role he has spent his life preparing for and dreaming about stepping into. No fan of the royals here. 

[Scarlett]

17 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Or unless he decides to remove himself from the succession. 

I think that is unlikely.  May have been wishful thinking for many for many years....but it seems most people have softened in regards to Charles.  And Camilla.  Andrew makes  Charles look good.

[DreamerGirl]

The monarch's consort will always be known as Queen Consort. It is the historical precedent. If they change that Kate will also be called Princess Consort as it will set a precedent and It will take an act of parliament to do that.  These things cannot be changed according to public like.

It was a bait and switch attempted to calm the public ire during the wedding of Prince Charles and Camilla because they were not exactly popular then. People were throwing bread her in a supermarket or something like that around the time Princess Diana died.

This is just something to bolster support for Queen Camilla because it will happen regardless of whether Queen Elizabeth herself did not want. It is a show of support which is good , but nothing else. This did not change historical precedent. Those who hate Camilla will hate her, others will like her. She will be Queen consort. End of.

Edited February 7, 2022 by DreamerGirl

[SKL]

46 minutes ago, DreamerGirl said:

The monarch's consort will always be known as Queen Consort. It is the historical precedent. If they change that Kate will also be called Princess Consort as it will set a precedent and It will take an act of parliament to do that.  These things cannot be changed according to public like.

It was a bait and switch attempted to calm the public ire during the wedding of Prince Charles and Camilla because they were not exactly popular then. People were throwing bread her in a supermarket or something like that around the time Princess Diana died.

This is just something to bolster support for Queen Camilla because it will happen regardless of whether Queen Elizabeth herself did not want. It is a show of support which is good , but nothing else. This did not change historical precedent. Those who hate Camilla will hate her, others will like her. She will be Queen consort. End of.

I'm curious why Elizabeth's husband was Prince consort while Charles' wife will be Queen consort (or Queen)?  Was it because of the sex difference or because of the timing of the marriage (before/after coronation)?  Or something else?

[stephanier.1765]

I was just reading an article that the queen was giving Camilla a crown to be worn for Charles' coronation.

[Danae]

52 minutes ago, SKL said:

I'm curious why Elizabeth's husband was Prince consort while Charles' wife will be Queen consort (or Queen)?  Was it because of the sex difference or because of the timing of the marriage (before/after coronation)?  Or something else?

Sex difference.  “King and Queen” = he’s the monarch and she’s married to him. There’s no historical usage of King for someone who is not the monarch.  

[Laura Corin]

21 minutes ago, Danae said:

Sex difference.  “King and Queen” = he’s the monarch and she’s married to him. There’s no historical usage of King for someone who is not the monarch.  

Because the root of the word 'queen' is simply 'woman'.

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

Or unless he decides to remove himself from the succession. 

Well, that is probably more likely than Meghan willingly giving up her title.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, stephanier.1765 said:

I was just reading an article that the queen was giving Camilla a crown to be worn for Charles' coronation.

Her mother's crown.

[Ditto]

Camilla has worked hard and been a great support for both Prince Charles and the royal family,  I'm glad she will be crowned Queen Consort.  She has earned it.  I'm also happy that the Queen endorsed this officially.

[DreamerGirl]

2 hours ago, stephanier.1765 said:

I was just reading an article that the queen was giving Camilla a crown to be worn for Charles' coronation.

It is a historic crown last worn by the Queen mother during coronation when she was crowned her husband's consort. But there is a problem with that crown as in it has a diamond called the Kohinoor. It belonged to India (well some King) originally and as recently as 2016 or 2018 India was demanding it back. It always comes up in social media as chatter.

When the Queen Mother was crowned, she was Empress of India as it was pre-independence. So did not create a fuss. The British have a history with colonization and the church of England has had to apologize for it and people have suggested/asked/demanded the Queen apologize too. Now if Camilla is crowned with that, it is going to bring into full view conversations about colonization and reparations. The role of the British monarch in the commonwealth going forward. The Queen for instance wanted Prince Charles to be the head of the Commonwealth as she was the head, the others obliged when they wanted it to rotate among the 54 nations. The Commonwealth which is former British colonies came into existence during her reign. After her, I do not think Prince Charles will be head always.

The Queen is the head of state of  of 13, I think Commonwealth nations. Barbados has already made the transition from that and has their own head of state. Prince Charles was there for it. 

Prince Charles will eventually be the monarch to apologize for colonization or if not him Prince William eventually. The King of Belgium had to.  

Prince Charles is very sensitive to public opinion and is a student of history. I do not think he will have a lavish coronation or use this particular crown. If it is used, I think it will be with the diamond detached. It is hard to miss, it is 105 carats and sort of dazzling in a blazing way.

The Queen may want a lot of things, but after she is gone everything from the Commonwealth to the church of England will change and her descendants are very aware of it.

Edited February 7, 2022 by DreamerGirl

[Grace Hopper]

8 hours ago, DreamerGirl said:

It is a historic crown last worn by the Queen mother during coronation when she was crowned her husband's consort. But there is a problem with that crown as in it has a diamond called the Kohinoor. It belonged to India (well some King) originally and as recently as 2016 or 2018 India was demanding it back. It always comes up in social media as chatter.

When the Queen Mother was crowned, she was Empress of India as it was pre-independence. So did not create a fuss. The British have a history with colonization and the church of England has had to apologize for it and people have suggested/asked/demanded the Queen apologize too. Now if Camilla is crowned with that, it is going to bring into full view conversations about colonization and reparations. The role of the British monarch in the commonwealth going forward. The Queen for instance wanted Prince Charles to be the head of the Commonwealth as she was the head, the others obliged when they wanted it to rotate among the 54 nations. The Commonwealth which is former British colonies came into existence during her reign. After her, I do not think Prince Charles will be head always.

The Queen is the head of state of  of 13, I think Commonwealth nations. Barbados has already made the transition from that and has their own head of state. Prince Charles was there for it. 

Prince Charles will eventually be the monarch to apologize for colonization or if not him Prince William eventually. The King of Belgium had to.  

Prince Charles is very sensitive to public opinion and is a student of history. I do not think he will have a lavish coronation or use this particular crown. If it is used, I think it will be with the diamond detached. It is hard to miss, it is 105 carats and sort of dazzling in a blazing way.

The Queen may want a lot of things, but after she is gone everything from the Commonwealth to the church of England will change and her descendants are very aware of it.

I like to think the Queen has a bit of, you asked for it, now take the reins and see what it’s *really* like in her. From your info here - thanks for it! - it seems like the choice of that particular crown may have been intentional. As in, here’s your first test, to open the door for proper discussion or for criticism, how are you going to handle it?

 

[Rosie_0801]

12 hours ago, SKL said:

I'm curious why Elizabeth's husband was Prince consort while Charles' wife will be Queen consort (or Queen)?  Was it because of the sex difference or because of the timing of the marriage (before/after coronation)?  Or something else?

Kings take precedence, so he had to have a lower ranking title. It would cause problems if the monarch's hubby outranked her.

[Laura Corin]

9 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Kings take precedence, so he had to have a lower ranking title. It would cause problems if the monarch's hubby outranked her.

Strictly,  when a queen is ruling in her own right and is not simply the wife of a king, she is known as Queen Regnant. For example, when King William and Queen Mary  - married cousins who each had some right to the throne - were ruling, he was King and she was Queen Regnant.  

Each time I type 'regnant' autocorrect wants me to put in 'Regentrude'.  @regentrude for Queen!

Edited February 8, 2022 by Laura Corin

[Rosie_0801]

Just now, Laura Corin said:

Strictly,  when a queen is ruling in her own right and is nor simply the wife of a king, she is known as Queen Regnant. For example, when King William and Queen Mary  - married cousins who each had some right to the throne - were ruling, he was King and she was Queen Regnant.  

Each time I type 'regnant' autocorrect wants me to put in 'Regentrude'.  @regentrude for Queen!

So what happened when Mary I made that Spanish bloke king? Did she make him her equal or did she sort of demoted herself a bit?

[Laura Corin]

3 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

So what happened when Mary I made that Spanish bloke king? Did she make him her equal or did she sort of demoted herself a bit?

This was part of the controversy.  He wanted, and perhaps she wanted, him to be king. The nobles weren't pleased.

Wikipedia tells me he was jure uxoris King, giving him the right to rule equally with her.

[Pam in CT]

[Super excited to have learned TWO new words, regnant and uxoris, by 9:00 in the morning.  Long live the Queen!!]

 

Back to regular programming...

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

[Super excited to have learned TWO new words, regnant and uxoris, by 9:00 in the morning.  Long live the Queen!!]

 

Back to regular programming...

I remember learning the word 'uxorious' in Latin class at school.

[DreamerGirl]

10 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

I like to think the Queen has a bit of, you asked for it, now take the reins and see what it’s *really* like in her. From your info here - thanks for it! - it seems like the choice of that particular crown may have been intentional. As in, here’s your first test, to open the door for proper discussion or for criticism, how are you going to handle it?

 

This crown was made for the Queen Mother if I remember right. This diamond was presented to Queen Victoria, I know that. I am more familiar with the provenance of this diamond than how it is was used in the BRF after it came into their possession. But what I know for sure is there is a legend about the Kohinoor that it is cursed if a man wore it (the last Indian King who owned it did not exactly have a good fate) and that is partly why I think it was used in the crown of the Queen Mother vs her husband George VI. 

At that time, it was usual to have the coronation of a new British monarch commemorated as a durbar (court) in India as well called Delhi Dubar. Everything from Queen Victoria's onward was commemorated as the East India company formally handed the Empire to the Crown. It was done in absentia with the Viceroy standing in until Queen Mary and George V appeared in person in Delhi. It was a grand affair and it is commemorated in film. This is actual footage of it.

Many Indian Kings who ruled small kingdoms came but some or one turned their back to them which was a protest. When it came to commemorate the coronation of George VI and the Queen Mother who were the last Emperor and Empress of India, especially after the abdication I think they might have wanted something to secure the Empire, there was immense opposition to that by Indians and it was not held.

I assume that is why the Kohinoor might have had pride of place on the Queen Mother's crown. They might have planned to use it again for a Durbar for them in India. For after all India was known as the jewel in the Crown.

I think for Prince Charles it will simply be the crown his beloved grandmother used. But I think it needs to be used without the Kohinoor or many uncomfortable conversations with start happening,

[fairfarmhand]

I must say that that crown looks incredibly heavy and uncomfortable. 

[gardenmom5]

On 2/7/2022 at 12:16 PM, Ditto said:

Camilla has worked hard and been a great support for both Prince Charles and the royal family,  I'm glad she will be crowned Queen Consort.  She has earned it.  I'm also happy that the Queen endorsed this officially.

She has endured a great deal of abuse hurled her way as well.  She just got down to business and worked.  I was heartened to see she had taken on a charity for abused women as one of her patronages.  Her ex was rather a cad.  (he was before she married him.  Yet she married him anyway.  Something I think helps her relate to a lot of women who were married to such men and have more compassion for them in their situations.)

12 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I must say that that crown looks incredibly heavy and uncomfortable. 

It's a rule.  It must be heavy to show what a strong neck a monarch possesses.