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Edward or Jacob? Stefan or Damon? Peeta or Gale?


JumpyTheFrog
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So many love triangles!

I read and saw the movies for Twilight and The Hunger Games. I watched The Vampire Diaries (after getting hooked on The Originals) but didn't read the books. I'm curious to see if there are any trends such as people on Team Edward also hoped X would win in one of the other series.

In The Hunger Games I was on Team Gale. I never felt like Katniss actually liked Peeta much. DH's opinion was, "Katniss needed a lover, not a fighter." Obviously Katniss couldn't respect Gale anymore after his bomb killed Prue, but I never was convinced she actually wanted Peeta. It always felt more like she was settling for him. 

In Twilight I couldn't see why Bella would choose Edward over Jacob. Edward had sooooooo many red flags. The relationship came across as abusive, whereas Jacob was safe.

Now here's what I don't understand about myself. In The Vampire Diaries, although Damon was initially the jerky bad boy, over time I found myself rooting for him, and not just because Stefan went back to his ripper ways. Now there was about a 7-8 year gap between when I read the other series and watched The Vampire Diaries, so maybe it has to do with aging and longing for more of the excitement of my younger days.

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Jacob--I agree, Edward is super creepy being 100+ years old and being attracted to a 17 year old mortal. Also, the relationship with Edward is super emotionally abusive. 

Gale --I'm convinced their relationship changed because of Peeta, the "original" Gale would not be so radical

Damon--I think as he gradually turns his humanity back over season 1 he consistently does what is best for Elena AND he let Elena make her own decisions. Stefan was just kind of moody, always. 

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Just now, Terabith said:

Hunger Games is the only one of those I've read/ watched.  

But I'm on team Spike versus Angel and a big fan of Lestat.  

Spike was more interesting than Angel, but I still can't quite get over him trying to rape Buffy.

I haven't read any Anne Rice books in almost twenty years, so I no longer feel qualified to comment on Lestat. But I remember him being quite the character!

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I mean, think about it, would YOU currently be attracted to a 17 year old? Just the idea of it should make your toes curl in disgust. We're all maybe only 20-40 years older than 17. Can you imagine what 100-200 years difference in age means in terms of matching maturity levels? I think there is a max out....but there's a lot of "seasoning" that comes with age.

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Just now, prairiewindmomma said:

I mean, think about it, would YOU currently be attracted to a 17 year old? Just the idea of it should make your toes curl in disgust. We're all maybe only 20-40 years older than 17. Can you imagine what 100-200 years difference in age means in terms of matching maturity levels? I think there is a max out....but there's a lot of "seasoning" that comes with age.

I understand what you mean. I see attractive guys in their 20s at the gym, but then I think that even if I were single, I'm too old for them. They couldn't relate to growing up before the internet was so all consuming. They wouldn't even remember life before smart phones!

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18 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Jacob--I agree, Edward is super creepy being 100+ years old and being attracted to a 17 year old mortal. Also, the relationship with Edward is super emotionally abusive. 

Gale --I'm convinced their relationship changed because of Peeta, the "original" Gale would not be so radical

Damon--I think as he gradually turns his humanity back over season 1 he consistently does what is best for Elena AND he let Elena make her own decisions. Stefan was just kind of moody, always. 

Definitely agree re Gale. I feel sorry for the way the Hunger Games turned everything upside-down. He’s the one who was the steady guy hunting with Katniss and taking care of her—he should get more credit.

Re Edward—It’s not the age (he’s doomed to be older than everyone), but the creepy stalking. Standing every night in Bella’s room secretly watching her sleep?!?! Not healthy. Jacob, on the other hand, is safe and sweet and sacrificial. 

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There's even a huge difference between someone who is 25 versus someone who is 17. Most 17 year olds aren't ready for serious relationships, don't have experience in serious relationships, and haven't had enough life experiences to let alone who they are and what they want let alone be ready to enter into a partnership of equals.

---------

re: Gale   When we're first introduced to Gale, we see this tall rugged young man who is essentially acting as an adult provider for his family. He and Katniss are essentially parentified--having to provide emotional and physical support because their parents are incapable. They've trauma bonded through the loss of their fathers in the mining accidents.  There's a raw attraction there, and he even suggests running away with Katniss into the woods---I think not just as friends, but also as future lovers. During Katniss's initial time away, he continues to act in this role--providing for both families, going to work in the mines, etc. I think the initial turning point is when Katniss and Gale are caught kissing and Snow threatens to kill Gale and his family if Katniss can't make the Peeta facade work.  Katniss and Gale talk of running away together again, but Katniss says that she can't imagine being romantic with anyone at that time.  I think that's the first serious wedge between the two. He had been jealous before, doubting of her love, and this feels like a true rejection. Gale tries to sell a turkey, is caught and whipped, and Katniss takes the rest of the beating and helps care for him....but when he wakes he is told Peeta and Katniss married and Katniss is pregnant. This is the second major wedge, I think, and it's shortly after this district 12 is destroyed, and Gale hides most of the village out in the woods to protect them. I think this is his moment of true radicalization. The ties with Katniss are broken, and while they try to make attempts to heal the relationship, it never really happens and the bitterness within him grows. Between what happens in the Nut and the bomb at the end....this seesaw of wanting a relationship and feeling like it romantically might happen and then watching it fall apart....it's just an acid that eats away at what could have been there without jealousy and anger. 

If the whole Peeta love triangle thing hadn't been there...if she hadn't been called into the Hunger Games...I think they would have married and had their own little dark haired kids together.

I just never felt the romantic tension with Peeta's relationship. It's like having to marry someone you feel no attraction for because it's the only person in your tiny village who isn't your cousin. It's passable, I guess, but nothing to aspire to.

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Edward is self-evidently THE WORST, so, really not much further to discuss on that front.

 

Re Gale v Peeta:

33 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

...When we're first introduced to Gale, we see this tall rugged young man who is essentially acting as an adult provider for his family. He and Katniss are essentially parentified--having to provide emotional and physical support because their parents are incapable. They've trauma bonded through the loss of their fathers in the mining accidents.  There's a raw attraction there, and he even suggests running away with Katniss into the woods---I think not just as friends, but also as future lovers. During Katniss's initial time away, he continues to act in this role--providing for both families, going to work in the mines, etc. I think the initial turning point is when Katniss and Gale are caught kissing and Snow threatens to kill Gale and his family if Katniss can't make the Peeta facade work.  Katniss and Gale talk of running away together again, but Katniss says that she can't imagine being romantic with anyone at that time.  I think that's the first serious wedge between the two. He had been jealous before, doubting of her love, and this feels like a true rejection. Gale tries to sell a turkey, is caught and whipped, and Katniss takes the rest of the beating and helps care for him....but when he wakes he is told Peeta and Katniss married and Katniss is pregnant. This is the second major wedge, I think, and it's shortly after this district 12 is destroyed, and Gale hides most of the village out in the woods to protect them. I think this is his moment of true radicalization. The ties with Katniss are broken, and while they try to make attempts to heal the relationship, it never really happens and the bitterness within him grows. Between what happens in the Nut and the bomb at the end....this seesaw of wanting a relationship and feeling like it romantically might happen and then watching it fall apart....it's just an acid that eats away at what could have been there without jealousy and anger. 

If the whole Peeta love triangle thing hadn't been there...if she hadn't been called into the Hunger Games...I think they would have married and had their own little dark haired kids together.

I just never felt the romantic tension with Peeta's relationship. It's like having to marry someone you feel no attraction for because it's the only person in your tiny village who isn't your cousin. It's passable, I guess, but nothing to aspire to.

I agree with much of this, with the addendum that for me at least, HG ends up mulling over the classic LOTR theme that some people can't go there and back again -- some have been drawn in too deeply, have been too transformed/are too badly broken.  And for some reason....others *can.* 

My reading of Peeta throughout the whole 3 books was, this is the Samwise Gamgee character: if he manages to make it physically to the end of this story, his out-the-gate decency/integrity/soul will make it as well.  Whereas Gale, not so clear even by the end of Book 1, and pretty clear not by mid-Mockingjay, long before the Prue scene.

And with Katniss herself, I wasn't sure, right to the ultimate plot scene. Even AFTER the ultimate plot scene, I still wasn't sure. Frodo himself couldn't go there and back again; I could envisage a similar ending.

 

Never read Vampire Diaries.

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1 hour ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

Spike was more interesting than Angel, but I still can't quite get over him trying to rape Buffy.

I haven't read any Anne Rice books in almost twenty years, so I no longer feel qualified to comment on Lestat. But I remember him being quite the character!

Yeah, that is problematic, but I always come back to the fact that he didn't have a soul when he did it.  I mean, nobody holds the things Angelus did against Angel.  And soulless Spike was so horrified by what he tried to do that he went out and GOT A SOUL.  That seems like a redemption arc to me.  

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1 hour ago, Terabith said:

Yeah, that is problematic, but I always come back to the fact that he didn't have a soul when he did it.  I mean, nobody holds the things Angelus did against Angel.  And soulless Spike was so horrified by what he tried to do that he went out and GOT A SOUL.  That seems like a redemption arc to me.  

I agree.

I just introduced my younger DD (18) to Buffy over Christmas break. She is absolutely obsessed with it now. She loves Angel (we are actually watching that now), but she really loves Spike. Apparently, James Masters did some Instagram thing last weekend and now she might order an autographed picture from him. 😆

 

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Stephanie Meyers said that when she was writing Edward, she was writing him as if he’d sort of petrified at age 17. So, even though he had lived 100 years, he was at the emotional stage of a 17-year-old. That’s why he was attracted to Bella and she to him.

I’m not sure how much Bella loved Edward, so much as she loved immortality. It would be hard to walk away from being indestructible and model-level beautiful and immortal to be with Jacob. I think it would be hard for a 17 yo to walk away from all that the Cullen family represented and could offer her.

If Edward had stayed away, she’d have eventually gotten over the grief of losing the promise of immortality and beauty and indestructibility (oh and fabulous wealth) and settled down with Jacob and been mostly happy. 

Edited by Garga
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I like Gale well enough. Peeta is done a huge disservice in the movies. For some reason people think that in order for the women to be strong in the movie that the male has to be weaker wereas in the book both Katniss and Peeta had their moments of strength and weakness. Even the fact that they chose Jennifer Lawrence was an error because Katniss was supposed to be tiny like tiny enough that she could be mistaken for 13 year-old girl according to the first book. She wasn’t supposed to be Linda Hamilton in T2. She was supposed to be a sixteen year old trying to survive the best that she could. Because Katniss was an unreliable narrator it might’ve been harder to see how much she depended on Peeta; there’s a lot of moments that show; she goes to him when she has a problem, he understands what it’s like to go through the hunger games and deal with everything that’s a part of that, the’s in the only people that is physically affectionate with her that she actually seeks out his comfort - often. All point to the enormous trust she has in him which of course is what leads to third book and how she’s broken. President Snow breaks Peeta to harm her and it’s what completely undoes her for a while. She sets off in the last part of the third book on a suicide run basically. Peeta, the Peeta she relied on is not there in the way she thinks and so she decides it’s her last act of rebellion. But even when she feels she can’t wholly trust high-jacked Peeta, she doesn’t leave him behind. I think Katniss’s words at the end of the series make it clear why she chooses Peeta. She says that she has enough fire, she has Gale’s fire but that’s not what she needs. She needs the dandelion. She needs hope.

Edited by Wishes
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9 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

Book series and a “based on” tv series. 
the books are way better and not nearly as much sex in them. 

Ha! Reading this thread was jogging my memory. My mom got me the first book at Goodwill one time. I was shocked at how much sex there was in the book! Lol. 

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