Banks and masks and signs...oh my!

[BakersDozen]

Tonight I followed a discussion on FB that had me blinking and wondering if perhaps I'm missing some key bit of common sense here. Feel free to tell me that yes, I'm missing common sense...this is your chance...have at it. 🙂

Man posts a photo of a bank's sign indicating no hoods, caps/hats, or sunglasses allowed. Now this follows an attempted robbery in the area, for what it's worth.

Man goes on tirade - and not a very pleasant or polite one - about how ridiculous it is to not allow those 3 items yet require face masks (medical). He clearly states that no one is allowed to contribute to any discussion supporting the stupidity of the sign.

Of course I contributed. I had to. Because I'm stubborn that way.

The eye area is the most noticeable/memorable/distinguishable facial feature. Were a person to cover the top half of their head and have only the nose/mouth/chin showing, it might be more challenging to recognize said person as opposed to the lower half covered but not the eyes/forehead/hair. I thought (and have taught students) that this is true. Am I wrong??

That being said, customers not being allowed to obscure their eye/upper head makes sense, right? I've seen these signs before in banks and never thought twice, even with the mask requirement.

Man says that masks have "always" been used by bank robbers. Um, maybe, but what part of the face did they cover? Did robbers go in with just a lower-face ski mask on? Or wear dress-up/Halloween masks with the upper half cut off? I looked on-line (I really did...I have too much time on my hands) to see what the average bank robber's attire might entail. No half masks. I may now be on the government's radar thanks to my searches...

I know I should not let the FB post/rant bother me. I know I should have not responded but something in me rises up when a real jack...um...donkey...posts something in the way he did. Being invited to not contribute reasonably is, to me, an invite to pipe up with reason.

But am I actually being unreasonable? Is the new trend to rob banks with only the lower half of one's face masked, eyes and hair exposed? Is wearing a medical mask equivalent to covering one's hair and majority of the eye area? Am I living an "alternate universe" (man's words in describing the absurdity of the sign) or ???

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by BakersDozen

[kbutton]

37 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

The eye area is the most noticeable/memorable/distinguishable facial feature. Were a person to cover the top half of their head and have only the nose/mouth/chin showing, it might be more challenging to recognize said person as opposed to the lower half covered but not the eyes/forehead/hair. I thought (and have taught students) that this is true. Am I wrong??

That being said, customers not being allowed to obscure their eye/upper head makes sense, right? I've seen these signs before in banks and never thought twice, even with the mask requirement.

You're not crazy.

I find it much harder to recognize people wearing sunglasses than a mouth-covering mask. Even people I know well can seriously startle me if they come up to me out of the blue wearing sunglasses. It's very disconcerting.

[KidsHappen]

I agree with most of what you have said. I too have been taught that it is easier to distinguish someone with the bottom part of their face covered than their top. On the other hand when I think of bank robbers my first thoughts are of ones from the early american times in which they wore a cowboy hat and covered the bottom part of their face with a handkerchief. I think of modern robbers wearing ski masks. I do think that some of the medical masks would make it harder to identify an assailant.

[Guest]

You are correct, the poster is just drawing illogical conclusions based on the stupid resistance against wearing masks, and - though I totally understand the temptation - it’s better to keep scrolling. Or snooze or block the person if they are just too likely to say something you want to dispute. 

[Wheres Toto]

We have those signs in a lot of banks and even stores around here, even before covid masks were a thing.   I think in a lot of cases it's the combination of hat or hood and sunglasses that obscures the most.      That combination can make someone really hard to recognize, can obscure hair color, possibly height, possibly gender.   I don't think a lower face mask does as much.  

I would probably argue a lot more on Facebook if I didn't have a local business where I need to keep things neutral and open to everyone.   I try to avoid commenting on anything that may be contentious or controversial, but sometimes it is super hard.

[wintermom]

I'd like to know if the people in these recent robberies were masked, and if so were they Covid-type masks or the standard TV/movie balaclava coverings? If they were using balaclava they'd not be allowed in, right. So at least there's the "medical mask" sign that will surely keep robbers out.

I'm so sorry, I simply can't take this ranter seriously at all. 

[TravelingChris]

My state has? had ?  a state law that you can not wear masks out in public except for Halloween (and I would guess Mardi Gras, as Mobile is the first place in the nation that had Mardi Gras, before New Orleans, and yes, people wear masks for that too) which was pre-pandemic.  We have had some bank robberies here with videos and no one was wearing N95s or anything like that.  Hats, sunglasses, bandanas, etc.  SOmeone actually wore a Halloween type mask too.  

There is one person on my Facebook who posts idiotic stuff- not about COVID necessarily, but about other things.  I am done arguing.  He is in my zoom Sunday school class which I decided not to attend anymore because it is so infuriating to me==his bizarre, illogical rants- like he is a super liberal except with regards to gays and a few other things.  But in my last class, he was going on about how I shouldn't shoot somebody breaking into my house (as a disabled woman who would lose the battle with almost any man) and conflating it with shooting somebody in our driveway- which I would never do.  As my husband says, he finds it hard to believe he was/is an engineer because his arguments are so confusing and weird.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

People call out my name all the time to say hi when I am wearing my medical mask. Even at our small bank the tellers greet me by name (before I show them ID). I don’t think that my upper face etc is more recognized than anyone else’s. 

[J-rap]

I've been surprised at how so many people recognize me (including bank teller, etc.) who have only known me with my mask on.  We moved to our new location shortly before the pandemic, so many of the public places I go to regularly have only seen me with a mask on.

I've also been surprised at how many people comment on how much my dd and I look alike, even though we have our masks on.

I think eyes tend to show more of our personality or emotion, so are more easily identified.

[elegantlion]

Ours banks have had those notices for years as well. Masks obscure but don't hide the jaw lines and such like hats, sunglasses, and hoods will other parts of your face. They also wouldn't interfere with security cameras, most of which I've seen are mounted higher on the wall. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

The most important points measured by facial recognition software are:

• Distance between the eyes
• Width of the nose
• Depth of the eye sockets
• The shape of the cheekbones
• The length of the jaw line

Of those, the shape of the cheekbones are probably the most affected by an ordinary medical mask.  Well, width of the nose farther down, would also be obscurred. 

[Xahm]

He's just being silly.

That being said, I've been trying to get to know a group of Kindergartners, many of whom I've only seen wearing a ball cap and a covid-mask. There are 3 groups of 3 each that I have a hard time telling apart from the others in their "group" because they are about the same size and coloration as each other, and I feel pretty bad about it. Add in a set of twins, and I'm lost. I've always had a hard time telling people apart and remembering names and faces, but when I put my mind to it, I can be decent at it. Right now, not so much.

[BakersDozen]

8 hours ago, KidsHappen said:

On the other hand when I think of bank robbers my first thoughts are of ones from the early american times in which they wore a cowboy hat and covered the bottom part of their face with a handkerchief. I think of modern robbers wearing ski masks. I do think that some of the medical masks would make it harder to identify an assailant.

True. Those banks should have made a sign against wearing hats for sure. When I think of ski masks I think of full face masks covering everything save for the eyes. So I didn't equate medical masks with ski masks....hmmmm...

 

[BakersDozen]

1 hour ago, J-rap said:

I've been surprised at how so many people recognize me (including bank teller, etc.) who have only known me with my mask on.  We moved to our new location shortly before the pandemic, so many of the public places I go to regularly have only seen me with a mask on.

I've also been surprised at how many people comment on how much my dd and I look alike, even though we have our masks on.

I think eyes tend to show more of our personality or emotion, so are more easily identified.

I offered the exact example to the man as I, too, was surprised when people recognized me even with a mask on. My example did not stand up to his vehement stance but it made sense to me.

[73349]

He's being absurd because he wants to be.

That said, I don't think the sign/policy is a good thing, other than requiring Covid masks.

I don't think banks should have signs rejecting customers who cover their hair, which is often for religious reasons. "No hats" should not be construed to prohibit yarmulkes, headscarves, turbans, etc. And this being winter in many places, if it's freezing out, people should not be expected to pull a winter hat off. Maybe "No baseball caps" or "No brimmed hats" would be better.

My glasses have a coating that turns them into sunglasses in UV light, so they will look like sunglasses for a minute or two any time I come in from outdoors. If I take them off, I will not be able to do any banking that involves reading print (like filling out a deposit slip).

Banks can (and some do) install a door lock that requires people to swipe an ATM card to open the entrance door. For new customers, the bank can  post a phone number for to call, with a requirement to have ID in hand to enter, if they are concerned about potential robberies.

[prairiewindmomma]

13 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

Tonight I followed a discussion on FB that had me blinking and wondering if perhaps I'm missing some key bit of common sense here. Feel free to tell me that yes, I'm missing common sense...this is your chance...have at it. 🙂

Man posts a photo of a bank's sign indicating no hoods, caps/hats, or sunglasses allowed. Now this follows an attempted robbery in the area, for what it's worth.

Man goes on tirade - and not a very pleasant or polite one - about how ridiculous it is to not allow those 3 items yet require face masks (medical). He clearly states that no one is allowed to contribute to any discussion supporting the stupidity of the sign.

Of course I contributed. I had to. Because I'm stubborn that way.

The eye area is the most noticeable/memorable/distinguishable facial feature. Were a person to cover the top half of their head and have only the nose/mouth/chin showing, it might be more challenging to recognize said person as opposed to the lower half covered but not the eyes/forehead/hair. I thought (and have taught students) that this is true. Am I wrong??

That being said, customers not being allowed to obscure their eye/upper head makes sense, right? I've seen these signs before in banks and never thought twice, even with the mask requirement.

Man says that masks have "always" been used by bank robbers. Um, maybe, but what part of the face did they cover? Did robbers go in with just a lower-face ski mask on? Or wear dress-up/Halloween masks with the upper half cut off? I looked on-line (I really did...I have too much time on my hands) to see what the average bank robber's attire might entail. No half masks. I may now be on the government's radar thanks to my searches...

I know I should not let the FB post/rant bother me. I know I should have not responded but something in me rises up when a real jack...um...donkey...posts something in the way he did. Being invited to not contribute reasonably is, to me, an invite to pipe up with reason.

But am I actually being unreasonable? Is the new trend to rob banks with only the lower half of one's face masked, eyes and hair exposed? Is wearing a medical mask equivalent to covering one's hair and majority of the eye area? Am I living an "alternate universe" (man's words in describing the absurdity of the sign) or ???

 

Generally the banks v. masks issue is a dog whistle about the validity of masks issue.  I honestly wouldn't have engaged at all, but just mentally chalked him up into the anti-masking camp. YMMV..

[MercyA]

Plenty of people who don't know me well and only see me occasionally recognize me with a mask on.

And a few weeks ago, I was out shopping and was offered a sample of a beauty product. I said, "No, thank you," and the salesperson said, "Thank you for smiling!" I had my daughter and her friend (from an anti-mask family) with me, and I said, "Girls, he knew I was smiling, even with my mask on." DD's friend said, "It's your eyes." I was glad she recognized this, because in our circles "depersonalization" and "inability to fellowship / communicate" are given as reasons to not mask. It's absurd. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by MercyA

[theelfqueen]

4 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Plenty of people who don't know me well and only see me occasionally recognize me with a mask on.

And a few weeks ago, I was out shopping and was offered a sample of a beauty product. I said, "No, thank you," and the salesperson said, "Thank you for smiling!" I had my daughter and her friend (from an anti-mask family) with me, and I said, "Girls, he knew I was smiling, even with my mask on." DD's friend said, "It's your eyes." I was glad she recognized this, because in our circles "depersonalization" and "inability to fellowship / communicate" are given as reasons to not mask. It's absurd. 

Early in the pandemic a woman I havent seen in more than 10 years and barely knew before (mom of a friend of my Oldest son) stopped me in the grocery store and recognized me masked. I was pretty surprised she recognized me at all, let alone masked. I didn't recognize her at all! 

[TravelingChris]

I recognize people masked .