Giving up on not getting covid

[Drama Llama]

We live in a place where covid rates are growing exponentially.  A local ER reported 25% positivity in those patients with no covid symptoms (broken legs and car accidents and stuff).  A local school tested all their faculty and got 20%.  And this is in communities with very high vaccination rates.

We are currently on vacation, but go back Sunday.  Monday, I go back to work.  Tuesday DH goes back to group therapy.  Thursday kids go back to school. I don’t see any way we are going to avoid it.  

I am thinking that our best plan of action is to send Pop to DH’s sister who can lock down right to protect him, and then assume the rest of us will get it.  We’ll still wear high quality masks and not do indoor stuff besides work/school/medical because we don’t want to contribute to spread, but honestly maybe it’s better to get it now while FIL and I (both moderately high risk) are within 10 weeks of our booster, plus if we get it we can bring Pop home.

Does that make sense?  

If so, my biggest question is my 14 year old.  He’s 6 months past his 2nd shot.  Moderate asthma,  controlled by daily steroid inhaler. Do I have the kids go with Pop and do distance learning (not sure it’s an option) until after the EUA?  Or beg pediatrician to vaccinate him sooner? Or just accept that his risk is low? 

Anyone have a better idea? 

[Acadie]

12-15s will be eligible for boosters this coming week, if I’m not mistaken? I’d prioritize 14 yo booster (our 15 yo currently has Covid, 2 shots Pfizer. All other household members boosted, exposed, no symptoms/neg rapid thus far).

Yes, send Pop to family who can hunker down. And everyone else masking well helps limit viral exposure so cases are more likely minimal or asymptomatic.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Acadie

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, Acadie said:

12-15s are eligible for boosters this coming week, if I’m not mistaken? I’d prioritize 14 yo booster (our 15 yo currently has Covid, 2 shots Pfizer).

 

He will get it as soon as he’s eligible.  My question is, do I pull him out of school and send him to stay with his aunt until then?  Or keep him at home and just hope he either doesn’t get it or gets a mild case?

DH is probably our most likely to bring it home, and I can’t change that.  I also can’t have the kids home if they aren’t in school.  

[Longtime Lurker]

While it sounds like it may be more difficult to avoid getting omicron, I would not just give up. I have been substitute teaching in person since fall of 2020 with triple layer cloth masks (2020-2021 school year) and triple layer surgical masks with loops knotted for tight fit (this school year) and I have not yet had covid, nor have my immediate family members. I am vaxed and boosted, but my school is mask-optional this year. My vaccinations plus consistent and correct masking (not even KN95) have paid off. I do worry that I am more likely to catch it with omicron now. And I am seriously considering upgrading my masks. But just basic precautions do a lot. I would not give up yet.

[Drama Llama]

I am not saying that I would give up on precautions, because those would all also prevent me from transmitting and I am not going to do that.

But we have been doing a fair amount of stuff, not really optional stuff for the most part, I work in person, DH has received a lot of in person medical care in high risk settings, kids go to school, and relying on our masks and other precautions to protect those at home.  I don’t think we can do that with omicron, it’s a whole different situation.  

I guess what I am giving up on is the idea that we can keep Pop safe at home.  Hence sending him to DH’s sister.

[Spryte]

I think that’s probably a good plan, to send him to a household that can minimize exposure. You guys are all doing the best you can, and hopefully you won’t get sick, but I get where you’re coming from. 
 

What does he think about going to DH’s sister’s house? I guess that would be the deciding factor.

[Drama Llama]

2 minutes ago, Spryte said:

I think that’s probably a good plan, to send him to a household that can minimize exposure. You guys are all doing the best you can, and hopefully you won’t get sick, but I get where you’re coming from. 
 

What does he think about going to DH’s sister’s house? I guess that would be the deciding factor.

So the plan is that he is going to go for a few days with my kids and then when their school opens they’ll come back.  He’s fine with going with them.  We will need to encourage him on the staying (this is a decision we came to after he was asleep tonight).  Generally though he doesn’t like people worrying about him and if we tell him we will be worried if he’s here, he goes.  We sent him there when my youngest was quarantined for an exposure, and when DH came home from the hospital.

The other issue is that DH’s other sister’s baby is supposed to be baptized.  He won’t miss that and they have a lot of exposure too.  I don’t know what the plan will be there.

[Ottakee]

With Pop, I would ask him what he wants.    This year, I read the book Being Mortal, and it really makes you think.

If Pop's goals are to avoid COVID and take extra precautions, by all means support that but if for Pop he would rather move back in with you, go to the baptism to see family, go out and visit friends, etc. Knowing the risks for himself, then I would honor that.

He might decide that the risk of getting covid (and even dying from it) are worth doing these things, then I would support that.   If he decides that that avoiding COVID is a big priority, I would do that.

[Hilltopmom]

If Pop wants to go, I’d send him.

With the kids in school, I do think it’s inevitable they’ll get it. We mask in school here and my youngest got it at school. Teachers have the option to double mask and stay away from people, sort of… but students usually can’t handle double masking themselves (too tricky to finagle) and they remove mask in my room for breakfast, snack, lunch, water breaks, and recess. 

[TexasProud]

32 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

With Pop, I would ask him what he wants.    This year, I read the book Being Mortal, and it really makes you think.

My aunt sent me this book when my mom got her diagnosis.  I would HIGHLY recommend this for anyone in the elder care group. 

[Ottakee]

35 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

My aunt sent me this book when my mom got her diagnosis.  I would HIGHLY recommend this for anyone in the elder care group. 

It is very, very good.  There are times when treatment, precautions, etc just don't meet the end goal of the individual.

[Ditto]

6 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

So the plan is that he is going to go for a few days with my kids and then when their school opens they’ll come back.  He’s fine with going with them.  We will need to encourage him on the staying (this is a decision we came to after he was asleep tonight).  Generally though he doesn’t like people worrying about him and if we tell him we will be worried if he’s here, he goes.  We sent him there when my youngest was quarantined for an exposure, and when DH came home from the hospital.

The other issue is that DH’s other sister’s baby is supposed to be baptized.  He won’t miss that and they have a lot of exposure too.  I don’t know what the plan will be there.

This is a good plan and what I would do as well.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

Honestly I would first see what Pop really wants and I’d ask myself and family what the long term goals are.  If Covid was a once and done like measles or chicken pox, I’d say just get it and be done since it seems inevitable.  But it’s not.  We have a very contagious variant circulating right now that most people are going to get. Most people in the world getting it is probably going to lead to more variants.  So your family is always, always going to be at risk of catching it and bringing it home. Now maybe a higher risk, but in three months it may be another high risk. How often is your SIL’s family willing to hunker down? How often will Pop be able to move?

Everyone’a risk assessment is different.  These are just questions to consider.  

[Longtime Lurker]

8 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I am not saying that I would give up on precautions, because those would all also prevent me from transmitting and I am not going to do that.

But we have been doing a fair amount of stuff, not really optional stuff for the most part, I work in person, DH has received a lot of in person medical care in high risk settings, kids go to school, and relying on our masks and other precautions to protect those at home.  I don’t think we can do that with omicron, it’s a whole different situation.  

I guess what I am giving up on is the idea that we can keep Pop safe at home.  Hence sending him to DH’s sister.

Oh, I understand what you're saying now. That makes sense.

8 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

So the plan is that he is going to go for a few days with my kids and then when their school opens they’ll come back.  He’s fine with going with them.  We will need to encourage him on the staying (this is a decision we came to after he was asleep tonight).  Generally though he doesn’t like people worrying about him and if we tell him we will be worried if he’s here, he goes.  We sent him there when my youngest was quarantined for an exposure, and when DH came home from the hospital.

This is a good plan if he is okay with it.

 

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Honestly I would first see what Pop really wants and I’d ask myself and family what the long term goals are.  If Covid was a once and done like measles or chicken pox, I’d say just get it and be done since it seems inevitable.  But it’s not.  We have a very contagious variant circulating right now that most people are going to get. Most people in the world getting it is probably going to lead to more variants.  So your family is always, always going to be at risk of catching it and bringing it home. Now maybe a higher risk, but in three months it may be another high risk. How often is your SIL’s family willing to hunker down? How often will Pop be able to move?

This is important to consider as well. Things may be better after omicron, or they may not.

[Faith-manor]

2 hours ago, Ottakee said:

It is very, very good.  There are times when treatment, precautions, etc just don't meet the end goal of the individual.

Right. And normally I would agree with that. But I do want to bring up hospital overrun. I have had three relatives and my mom's best friend die of this, and each one died during hospital overwhelm. It does mean much more suffering because there aren't staff to monitor them enough, it means dying alone because visitors aren't allowed, it means making end of life care decisions over the phone, it means fights in the family about to handle funerals, and this is NOT hospice. No one gets sent home to die because this is a communicable disease. So there is no caring for your dying loved one at home. It can take weeks of being on a paralytic on a ventilator with NO ONE there but a nurse. None of my relatives, nor my mom's friend had encountered human touch beyond the nursing staff for three weeks or longer.

Anyone who decides, "Screw it! I don't care anymore!" needs to make peace with how they will die, and their family needs to make peace with it too.

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Honestly I would first see what Pop really wants and I’d ask myself and family what the long term goals are.  If Covid was a once and done like measles or chicken pox, I’d say just get it and be done since it seems inevitable.  But it’s not.  We have a very contagious variant circulating right now that most people are going to get. Most people in the world getting it is probably going to lead to more variants.  So your family is always, always going to be at risk of catching it and bringing it home. Now maybe a higher risk, but in three months it may be another high risk. How often is your SIL’s family willing to hunker down? How often will Pop be able to move?

Everyone’a risk assessment is different.  These are just questions to consider.  

I feel very differently.

I don't think we get to throw our hands up in the air when hospital and ambulance systems are failing, literally collapsing especially in my state. I refuse to deliberately contribute to spread. It is a 12 hour wait for an ambulance here, and people are dying in the parking lots of hospitals because there is no one to treat them for even otherwise treatable things besides covid. This is no longer an individual decision because getting it and requiring medical care has massive, negative impacts on everyone else in way that is unprecedented in modern times.

This is not always about the individual.

 

[TexasProud]

37 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I feel very differently.

I don't think we get to throw our hands up in the air when hospital and ambulance systems are failing, literally collapsing especially in my state. I refuse to deliberately contribute to spread. It is a 12 hour wait for an ambulance here, and people are dying in the parking lots of hospitals because there is no one to treat them for even otherwise treatable things besides covid. This is no longer an individual decision because getting it and requiring medical care has massive, negative impacts on everyone else in way that is unprecedented in modern times.

This is not always about the individual.

 

But the OP is NOT throwing up her hands. She is being a lot like me. I am still taking precautions. But we are preparing  for the inevitability of getting it.   That is different. 

[Pam in CT]

So much thirding the recommendation for Atul Gawande's Being Mortal.  It's up there in my Top 10 of all time. My rabbi-in-training eldest gives it out as "a book every human should read."

 

I've posted on other threads already that I'm still struggling to re-frame what my/our COVID goals should be in the face of Omicron. It truly does seem different, in innumerable ways, from the prior surges. And I don't know what is feasible in the medium term. For *us,* I'm settling on a very-near-term goal (like, for the next three weeks) of trying pretty hard not to contribute to (what is in my specific geography) looking like a looming hospital crisis worse than we had in April 2020. Like, where appendicitis emergencies will have trouble finding beds. 

I *think* that hospital crisis will be a relatively brief, South Africa-level duration. And once we're on the other side of that, I expect (resumed grocery deliveries and near-complete social isolation notwithstanding) we will get it.

Until then, here's my visualization:

 

[mommyoffive]

Can your ds get the booster at CVS now?  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

59 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I feel very differently.

I don't think we get to throw our hands up in the air when hospital and ambulance systems are failing, literally collapsing especially in my state. I refuse to deliberately contribute to spread. It is a 12 hour wait for an ambulance here, and people are dying in the parking lots of hospitals because there is no one to treat them for even otherwise treatable things besides covid. This is no longer an individual decision because getting it and requiring medical care has massive, negative impacts on everyone else in way that is unprecedented in modern times.

This is not always about the individual.

 

I think that’s where this is such an individual decision. Our current positivity rate is higher than we’ve ever been, but it is not translating into hospitalizations and overwhelm at this point. Our ICU was full during delta, but right now is sitting at 40% empty.  The ER is full and we’re running more ambulance calls than ever, but mostly it’s not Covid(adult RSV and flu A, yes.).  I haven’t had a Covid patient in two weeks despite everyone seeming to have it. So locally, for me, I know if I got really sick with something I’d still be getting care. 
If/when our area hospitals become full again, we’ll hunker down more. I don’t know what it’s like in OP’s area.  But in her case, I think what her GFIL wants and is comfortable with is what should drive this decision for them. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Drama Llama]

4 hours ago, Ottakee said:

With Pop, I would ask him what he wants.    This year, I read the book Being Mortal, and it really makes you think.

If Pop's goals are to avoid COVID and take extra precautions, by all means support that but if for Pop he would rather move back in with you, go to the baptism to see family, go out and visit friends, etc. Knowing the risks for himself, then I would honor that.

He might decide that the risk of getting covid (and even dying from it) are worth doing these things, then I would support that.   If he decides that that avoiding COVID is a big priority, I would do that.

I haven't read Being Mortal, but having been through hospice with a child (and other relatives before that) we've had lots of conversations about quality of life vs. interventions.

But, on the scale of interventions, spending a few weeks with my SIL who will spoil him with delicious food, and my BIL who will watch every sporting event with him, and his great-granddaughter who he dotes on, isn't the same as being locked away in some nursing home.  Ordinarily he'd love to go visit.  His worry will be leaving my boys at a time when he knows they are stressed, but the argument that they would be very stressed if he were ill will sway him.

We'll get him to the baptism, if it happens.  We might not go, to reduce the size of the group, or just DH who is the godfather.  It might be postponed.  

[Drama Llama]

21 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Can your ds get the booster at CVS now?  

Not without me telling them he is immunocompromised. 

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

I feel very differently.

I don't think we get to throw our hands up in the air when hospital and ambulance systems are failing, literally collapsing especially in my state. I refuse to deliberately contribute to spread. It is a 12 hour wait for an ambulance here, and people are dying in the parking lots of hospitals because there is no one to treat them for even otherwise treatable things besides covid. This is no longer an individual decision because getting it and requiring medical care has massive, negative impacts on everyone else in way that is unprecedented in modern times.

This is not always about the individual.

 

Our situation isn't quite as bad as that here, but our system is definitely stressed.

Hospital covid restrictions devasted our family.  They made the last months of my child's life so much harder, and prevented me from being with him when he died.  Pop, and other relatives, lost so much time with him, because he couldn't visit.  

So, none of us want to contribute to that.  We won't be taking unnecessary risks.  But I have to work.  DH can't, and I haven't had this job long enough to build up leave.   DH needs medical care.  My kids need school. 

[mommyoffive]

12 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Not without me telling them he is immunocompromised. 

Right.   Does his  asthma qualify him anyhow?  I would do that, beg your ped, or keep him home until the EUA goes through.  People are thinking it is going to happen on Wed.  Hopefully a fast change and not a wait because it is the same dose.  Depending on how booked up apts are around you maybe by the end of the week, if everything goes well.  

Edited January 1, 2022 by mommyoffive

[TexasProud]

11 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Our situation isn't quite as bad as that here, but our system is definitely stressed.

Hospital covid restrictions devasted our family.  They made the last months of my child's life so much harder, and prevented me from being with him when he died.  Pop, and other relatives, lost so much time with him, because he couldn't visit.  

So, none of us want to contribute to that.  We won't be taking unnecessary risks.  But I have to work.  DH can't, and I haven't had this job long enough to build up leave.   DH needs medical care.  My kids need school. 

I know. That is why I responded to her.  She may not have meant it to sound like this, but it made it sound like you are being irresponsible. You are not. You are just trying to find the best solution. 

[Drama Llama]

7 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Right.   Does his  asthma qualify him anyhow?  I would do that, beg your ped, or keep him home until the EUA goes through.  People are thinking it is going to happen on Wed.  Hopefully a fast change and not a wait because it is the same dose.  Depending on how booked up apts are around you maybe by the end of the week, if everything goes well.  

To officially qualify, he'd need to be on oral steroids, which he hasn't needed since he was tiny.  My understanding is that if I went in to CVS and said that he was on steroids, they wouldn't ask for proof, but after spending years telling my kids we're going to listen to the medical providers and trust them to help us be as safe as possible, suddenly telling him to lie to medical providers feels wrong. 

He can't stay home at our house, for complicated reasons.  I could send the kids together to my SIL's to stay with Pop. 

[ktgrok]

Ok, so Pop goes to SIL for sure. 

I'd ask your pediatrician if son is high risk enough that he advises keeping him home until he can be boostered. If so, then send him to SIL as well. If not, then send him to school with the knowledge he may get it before he can be boostered. 

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

I feel very differently.

I don't think we get to throw our hands up in the air when hospital and ambulance systems are failing, literally collapsing especially in my state. I refuse to deliberately contribute to spread. It is a 12 hour wait for an ambulance here, and people are dying in the parking lots of hospitals because there is no one to treat them for even otherwise treatable things besides covid. This is no longer an individual decision because getting it and requiring medical care has massive, negative impacts on everyone else in way that is unprecedented in modern times.

This is not always about the individual.

 

I agree with this, but I also seem to recall that Pop is already very elderly, and in this case, I can understand why he might want to take his chances on contracting Covid rather than to be away from his home. I think my bigger worry would be how Baseballandhockey and her kids would feel if they thought he had caught Covid from them. That's a lot of guilt! Fortunately, it sounds like Pop will enjoy being at the other family member's home, which would obviously be the ideal solution, so hopefully that's what he will choose. 

I definitely don't agree with anyone throwing up their hands and giving up, and assuming they will contract Covid anyway, so they might as well go back to living their "normal" lives. I think it's worth it for as many people as possible to continue to take precautions, because as you said, the medical system is getting overwhelmed and we should all be considering that. People don't seem to realize that Covid isn't the only reason they might have to go to the hospital. They literally say that the hospital crisis won't apply to them because they won't get a bad case of Covid,  but they completely forget that their kid might fall off his bike and break his arm (or worse!) or that they could have a stroke or a heart attack or develop a serious medical problem that requires treatment and surgery -- and if the hospitals are full and the ERs are swamped, they and their family members won't be able to get the care they need.

Ugh! This whole situation is so frustrating and depressing! 

[Ceilingfan]

I think I'd send GFIL to SIL's because it sounds like he will not mind and it reduces all of your worry about exposures you can't avoid. I'd keep the kids in school if they are happy there; probably I'd ask your son's doctor to be sure. 

Everyone I know here has thrown up their hands. People who want to be vaccinated are vaccinated; virtual school was devastating for all of our kids; right now, at least anecdotally, RSV and the flu and norovirus (rotavirus? the puking one) are all so much worse this year than ever before that covid is the least of our worries for the kids. 

The only real concern I'd have about sending your DS to school is what to do if he gets sick or is quarantined (although the quarantines, at least here, are shorter than before). If he's out for 10 days, obviously you can't take off work or keep him home without you, but if GFIL is with SIL, would you still be able to send DS there during the day? I suppose at that point GFIL and DS could switch households, but it might be something to have a plan for in advance.

[Drama Llama]

If DS or anyone else in the house is positive then I have to quarantine anyway.  My employer will deal with that.  That’s different from me saying I am taking the next few weeks off when no one is sick. 

 

[Ausmumof3]

One thing to keep in mind is that there’s some thought that omicron will create a very short sharp peak and decline so you may not have to take measures for too long, if that helps with GFIL. In general, I’m in favour of letting older people make their own choices but I’d be a bit worried about what hospitals will be like over the next few weeks.