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[JustEm]

nm

Edited December 15, 2021 by hjffkj

[Katy]

nm

Edited December 16, 2021 by Katy

[freesia]

I didn't mean add to what he's already doing.  I mean go with him for a specific purpose/discussion.

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[bolt.]

Of the therapy he already attends, is there a way for you to contact those resources and say, "I have a difficult subject to discuss with DH, and I think it would be best to do it in a professional context where he can have the support he needs for dealing with what I have to say and communicating the things that matter to him." -- and set yourself up to join him for that session.

[Katy]

nm

Edited December 16, 2021 by Katy

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[prairiewindmomma]

If his primary focus is on self care, and it probably should be at this point, then he's not in a position to truly coparent. He's just not.  I think if he's not willing to acknowledge that, then I think that just points to the fact that he's truly not really able to coparent.  Coparenting suggests both partners having the capacity and the ability to do so, and he's not there yet. 

What support would be helpful for you in having that conversation with him that he's not ready to coparent? It seems that joint therapy isn't an option. Your latest post suggests you've already announced the decision with regards to this schooling decision.

I'm reminded of the conflict that arose in my relatives' marriage after one partner became incapacitated due to illness. The primary problem wasn't what decisions needed to be made. It was how to handle the relationship now that the previous decision making partner no longer had the ability to make good decisions. And, really, that wasn't a problem that the spouse with capacity could resolve. It was up to the non-capacity spouse to acknowledge and accept.

[SKL]

Can you remind us what grade your son will be going into next year?  How many years before he enters Catholic high school and the question becomes moot?

[Carol in Cal.]

"But DH is pushing hard for us to return him to a Catholic school, and I am struggling to respond.  On one hand, I feel like DH is as much of a parent as I am.  I also feel like I did pretty much promise him his kids would go to Catholic school.  That's a conversation we had before marriage.  On the other hand, he's not the one overseeing the HW, and problem solving with the school, and having the late night conversations with a stressed out kid.  I wonder if he'd feel differently if he was doing those things.  On the third hand, I feel like some of the problem is that I am struggling with forgiveness, intellectually I believe that his illness is no more his fault than if he had cancer or was deployed, but emotionally, I struggle with trust, and I'm sure that's playing a role."

I think it's valid to 'struggle with trust' when someone is not fully mentally capable.  There is no shame in that.  It's not a question of blaming, but rather a question of whether there is fully reliable judgement available, which in this case is QUITE questionable. 

You may SEPARATELY be struggling with forgiveness, but that is truly a separate issue.  Do you yourself think that you are wanting to send your son to his current school to get back at your husband?  Because honestly it sounds like it's objectively and emotionally the best thing for your son, not something that is preferred to hurt your DH in some way.

I think it is natural that he is bouncing back to verities that he had in the past, and that sometimes that is a healthy first start to moving forward.  However, in this particular case it is far less individualized than it rightly needs to be for your son to thrive.  My inclination would be to position this as, yes, we are going to get back to everyone having a Catholic education, but starting in high school where there is a clean break to make the transition reasonable.  And then make that stick.

[JustEm]

So, he can't do the research or legwork, you have told him that you don't believe it is best for the child.  What is the dilemma here? Has he continued to argue for Catholic school even though he won't do the research?  If that is the case then just tell him you will readdress the topic once he gives you options on what catholic schools he feels would be appropriate and his plan for the enrollment process.  That way, if he doesn't do the legwork then the argument has been decided through his inaction. If he does do the leg work then you approach that battle when it comes, which you believe it won't.

You can respect his desire to have a say in parenting without helping him with decisions you believe are not in your child's best interest. If your dh asks you to do the leg work then you use his inability to do so as a jumping off point as to why he isn't ready to be involved in making big decisions. That you are happy to take his opinion into consideration but that you as the healthy parent will make these decisions until he is able to be fully involved.

[Lecka]

So right now you would just be applying but not making the final decision for next year?  I think that could be done in good faith unless it is just too much of a burden for you right now.

I think it might be too much of a burden to figure out right now, I think that happens in real life.

Sometimes things stay the status quo because too much is on one person’s plate to figure out a brand new thing.  
 

If it’s not too much of a burden, I think it would be a good-faith move to make there be some options available when the other parent can be more involved.  
 

But if reality is that it’s too much to ask, then I think that really needs to be okay.  
 

It’s a stressful situation and it’s no small thing to add something so big on to someone’s to-do list.  

[Harriet Vane]

Your dh has a long road ahead and is not in a frame of mind to make those major decisions. Your family is not stable yet even though you are on a path to health (and I genuinely applaud the hard work and love).

Do what is best for your children, period. No unnecessary disruptions. They have had a lot of chaos already and there will definitely be more ups and downs. Do what keeps your kids stable. 

[Katy]

nm

Edited December 16, 2021 by Katy

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[DreamerGirl]

The biggest parenting mantra that helped me time and time again was "parent the child in front of you"

As recent as this school year when we made the decision for DS to go back to PS because it was what he needed. We were fully prepared to HS high school. 

The past two years have been tough on everyone even without the kind of changes your family has had. So any place where your kid is finding some sort of stability is something I would keep intact. It helps them tremendously. I say that from experience. 

I also see the point of a religious school. But if I can offer something else from my experience, it is ultimately your child's journey to figure out his faith. You can immerse him in all things religion, but his faith journey is his own and it can change due to life circumstances at any age. Not your fault or failing as a parent. I also say that from experience. 

((Hugs)) as you figure it out. 

[ktgrok]

Yes...I've been in some situations like this, but different. 

I think there are two things to focus on (and forgive me if already stated - had guests today and didn't read all the responses) 

1. acknowledge and affirm the REASON for DH's desire for them to go to Catholic School. I'm assuming the reason is to have them surrounded by people of faith, to have spiritual role models, to have friends and a community that live out the faith alongside them. So affirm that, and state that you want that too - that it is a shared goal between the both of you. That is the main goal, but for this next year, given various life situations, you feel that Catholic school, this particular one, is not a great fit for other reasons so want to find another way to meet that goal. Now, with him still healing mentally, maybe that logical approach won't work, but for the sake of fairness I think approaching it as you making clear you are not changing the goal, just the circumstances, and for a limited time, is a good approach. Brainstorm or discuss how that goal can be met in other ways - youth group, Mass, VBS, family members, etc. And does the parish do a faith formation class for kids in other schools? Does him attending that play into this at all? Is that back in person now?

2. Keep options open, and do the testing or what not if it means you can kick the can down the road a bit. Talk to school again about math acceleration options, etc. Show good faith in exploring all options. 

Hugs. 

[Catwoman]

18 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I didn't ever say I'd send him to Catholic high school.  I said I'd consider the possibility of Catholic high school.  I'm not promising to send my older either, I just had him take the admissions test and go through the application process so that come February when we hear we have options to discuss, in hopes that DH is able to be a partner in that decision.  If we're in a situation where we're making that decision alone, I almost certainly won't choose Catholic for him either.  

Youngest is in 6th, so rising 7th.

Do your children have any say in what schools they attend? They are at an age where I think your dh should be paying a lot of attention to what the kids want, rather than just what he wants *for* them. 

It sounds like you want what is working best for your children. It sounds like your dh wants what he wants. 

[Carol in Cal.]

PS  In many places, according to my Catholic sister, Catholic high schools are not all that Catholic.  They don't necessarily support all teachings of the church, or may only do so in the religion classes but not in the rest of the curricula.  They may focus far more on Catholic social teachings than on their religious teachings, and choose only *some* Catholic social teachings to instruct--not all of them--a very cafeteria approach.  And there tends in some areas to be relatively few actual Catholic students, and many of those are CINO.  

Just, FYI so you are not surprised.  It's worth investigating sometime before high school matriculation whether your goals for a Catholic education will actually be met at that high school or not.

[Tanaqui]

Are YOU in therapy? Personal, individual therapy instead of couples counseling? I think you need to be. You have had a lot of bad stuff happen to you over the past few years. You cannot live the role of The Functioning Adult while everybody else struggles. Sooner or later that's not going to work. And a therapist could help you figure out how to tell your husband that you have "considered" a Catholic school and decided against it.

[Sneezyone]

16 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Are YOU in therapy? Personal, individual therapy instead of couples counseling? I think you need to be. You have had a lot of bad stuff happen to you over the past few years. You cannot live the role of The Functioning Adult while everybody else struggles. Sooner or later that's not going to work. And a therapist could help you figure out how to tell your husband that you have "considered" a Catholic school and decided against it.

This. It's a hard thing to come to terms with but everybody cant win all of the time and, as was said previously, times change. You/The kids 'lost' when DH needed to absent himself. How you say that, how you present it, is individual but a therapist could help find the strength, and a way, to communicate that effectively. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Sneezyone

[sgo95]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

And honestly? I think you err on the side of over functioning, and over responsibility, and that making a choice that prioritises you as well as ds is not only ok but healthy. 

👆

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, Baseballandhockey said:

My kids' faith, and particularly this kids' faith, is a huge source of support for them. Catholic schools, in our area, are more closely aligned with our family values.  If there had been a decent Catholic option where the kids could be together, that had appropriate covid precautions and space last summer I would have chosen that too.  

So, there are good reasons to switch.  There are just better reasons to stay put, IMO. 

Addressing this in therapy isn't an option right now. 

The boldest would make this a done deal for me. Catholic schools it is then.  This aspect will carry him through so much for the years to come.  This being the case, the faith and the faith community may be a tremendous long term source of stability for the children. And starting the transposition in 7th grade is often excellent timing for further building that support.

From MY pov, the support of faith community provides a stable extended family life that is a huge benefit to teens and young adults. It’s a stable bridge to the larger world and a solace during times of difficulty.

Kindly said, are you personally struggling with the RCC bc of personal issues? Could this possibly be affecting your view of which school to choose? No judgement in the question.  It’s understandable you’d feel swayed in either direction.

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Sneezyone]

what you just said is EXACTLY how you say that. It’s clear and to the point. How he deals with that is his issue with his therapist. How it impacts your marriage is a couples counseling issue. At the end of the day, tho, DS is prioritized.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I say "you've forfeited the right to make decisions for your kids"?

You can say, more kindly, you’re not in a position to make fully informed decisions about the kids, yes. BTDT.  IMO, it’s no different than confronting an alcoholic who needs to make amends. Sugar coating only kicks the can down the road.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Tanaqui]

You just did say it. Now say it to his face. "Nobody blames you for your illness, but because of it, I get the bigger vote when it comes to important parenting decisions. I considered a Catholic option, and did the research. I concluded that it's better for the kids to stay where they are. We can revisit this as they enter high school."

[Clemsondana]

I've never dealt with anything like the situations you've had over the past few years.  But, our family has often had a dynamic were, due to spouse's absence due to work travel, I had a much better understanding of family dynamics involving the kids.  We are usually in agreement, or at least not opposition, and he usually defers to me because of this.  But, there have been times when he has wanted something that I'm not philosophically opposed to, but I can't see how to make it work or don't feel that it would easily fit with the current situation, which is somewhat similar to your current issue.  It's not his fault that he's not here to help, but, ultimately...he's not, and we are limited by my observations and ability to make things happen. 

When that happens, I've usually said something like 'I can see how that would be a good thing, but I don't have the bandwidth to manage any changes right now'.  I word it differently sometimes - we don't have time, or we have a routine that works, or kid needs to not have a change from a situation that's working, or that I'm not sure what the long-term solution will be and I don't want to have to make a change and then change again once I'm able to catch my breath and sort through all of the options.  In other words, it's not about not caring what he thinks, but it's about what I, being a person with only so much time and energy, am able to do.  Each person only has so much coping power, and anything new requires a bit of extra coping...and sometimes we don't have any more coping that we are able to do, whether it's due to stress or time crunches or mostly-single parenting or illness.  We will sometimes say that we'll be willing to contemplate 'new thing' once 'situation' is more stable, but 'new thing' and 'current issue' may be too much.  Of course, sometimes 'new thing' will improve 'issue', and that's always worth considering, but sometimes it's just adding more stuff to deal with.

[Carol in Cal.]

50 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Well, that's the kind of Catholic I am so that isn't a problem. 

OK, but is it the kind of Catholic that your husband has been historically?

Because if not, it's worth considering whether he would even want the Catholic school at this point if he knew that it was different from what he pictured.

A funny for instance--when I wanted to move to college and not commute anymore, they had three systems--the Greek houses, the dorms, and a set of coops that were quite regularized.  The coops were the cheapest, but they required 5 hours per week of work.  I wanted to move into one since I was paying for it myself.  My dad was adamantly opposed to this, and I could not figure out why.  Late in the convo it came out that he thought there were dorm mothers and curfews at the dorms, but not at the coops.  Ha.  So. Not. True.  Once we cleared that up he gave up on the dorms.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Carol in Cal.

[Carol in Cal.]

56 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I just started therapy.  My therapist and I aren't at the point where this is what we're working on. 

I don't really understand how, on one hand, I shouldn't try to be The Functioning Adult, while also communicating to my husband that I should get to make this decision alone because I'm the one functioning.  That feels like a trap.  

I've told him multiple times that I don't think that moving him to any other school, regardless of religious status, is the right choice.  That's not the question.  It's communicating to him that I think I should have the ability to make this decision solo (because I'm the functioning adult).  That I feel like he's forfeited his right to have a voice in this.  

Re the Functioning Adult thing, I think the point was that you being the only one in that role is not going to work in the long run so you might want to get ahead of transitioning to sharing that responsibility over a period of time.  Not right now though.

Regarding what to tell him, I would not suggest saying that he has forfeited his right to have a voice.  I'd probably say, This is my decision for this year, since I'm closer to the situation than anyone else.  Next year that could change.

I'd say it flatly but kindly, not angrily, and I would not really discuss it beyond that.  If he kept saying that he wants things different, I'd say, 'Definitely worth considering in the future, but absolutely not for this coming school year."  Over and over if necessary.  If it came up too too often, I might say, "I'm not willing to discuss this anymore unless there is some new information to consider."  And then change the subject.
 

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I just started therapy.  My therapist and I aren't at the point where this is what we're working on. 

I don't really understand how, on one hand, I shouldn't try to be The Functioning Adult, while also communicating to my husband that I should get to make this decision alone because I'm the one functioning.  That feels like a trap.  

I've told him multiple times that I don't think that moving him to any other school, regardless of religious status, is the right choice.  That's not the question.  It's communicating to him that I think I should have the ability to make this decision solo (because I'm the functioning adult).  That I feel like he's forfeited his right to have a voice in this.  

Oy. Okay. This is indeed another issue entirely. 

And again so much depends on how likely you think he will continue to be in their lives. Married divorced shared custody solo custody…

BUT let’s take out all the other baggage and consider how we would handle this scenario. Let’s say all the decisions were falling to you bc of some other issue. Maybe he travels for work or idk had cancer or something.  How would you handle this?  I would be looking at what gives the best long term stability. In other words if the kid is just going to need to switch schools in a year anyways, might as well do it now. If the onus of all things education related are falling to me to deal with - I’m going to look at which option also makes that easier for me maybe. (Distance to drive or whatever.) Then I’m going to discuss with Dh what decision I have come to and list the reasons this option is best for kids and me.  I’m also going to say that some of those best reasons are related to me (vs only about the kids) bc if we are being honest with each other this is MY work and I want to do my best at it.  Not saying anything about him just if we are being honest he is struggle with X Y Z that means he will not be the one able to help with school work, carpool, parent conferences and extracurricular. The key is being able to say that with sincerely no resentment or judgement of him. 

[Melissa Louise]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Melissa Louise

[SKL]

If he was in a better mental situation, able to parent, and still disagreed with you, how would you handle that?

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Drama Llama]

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[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Melissa Louise]

8 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

No, there are other priorities.

With respect, and gently pushing back, therapy isn't a check list you work through from most to least important items. 

In any case, this is clearly important to you. If it's important enough to bring to the Hive, it's important enough to raise in therapy. 

Just my 2c. 

[Melissa Louise]

6 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

 

 

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Melissa Louise

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[WildflowerMom]

"JoeJoe doesn't need to change schools right now, but I think looking ahead to highschool is a good plan."    
 

if you said that, what would he say?   

[Forget-Me-Not]

1 hour ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I just started therapy.  My therapist and I aren't at the point where this is what we're working on. 

I don't really understand how, on one hand, I shouldn't try to be The Functioning Adult, while also communicating to my husband that I should get to make this decision alone because I'm the one functioning.  That feels like a trap.  

I've told him multiple times that I don't think that moving him to any other school, regardless of religious status, is the right choice.  That's not the question.  It's communicating to him that I think I should have the ability to make this decision solo (because I'm the functioning adult).  That I feel like he's forfeited his right to have a voice in this.  

Can you frame it as “I hear that this is important to you, but what kids and I *need* is to maintain the status quo while our family works to heal itself?” Emphasize that this is a need, not a want. 

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Drama Llama]

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Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Melissa Louise]

6 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Melissa Louise

[Melissa Louise]

6 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Melissa Louise