Mild Covid isolation- update with the back story

[sassenach]

So say you have a family member that is supposed to travel for an important personal event and you found out that they tested positive for Covid recently and had mild symptoms. How many days out from onset and symptoms would you want them to be for YOU to feel comfortable (I know what the official recommendations are). 
 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by sassenach

[busymama7]

If they are vaccinated I might be ok with less than 10 days as long as symptoms are gone or extremely mild.  They clear the virus quicker and aren't contagious as long. 

[sassenach]

Not vaccinated 

[busymama7]

4 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Not vaccinated 

I can tell you I stayed isolated for 13 days. I was terrified of giving it to anyone else.  But this was pre vaccines.  Now that everyone has had a chance to o be vaccinated if they choose (of course excepting super little ones) I admit to not be as worried about any possible spread ever.  But in this situation I wouldn't be ok with less than the 10 days.  

[Ausmumof3]

Unvaxed is fourteen days.  

[KSera]

32 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Unvaxed is fourteen days.  

I agree if vaxed I’d say 14 days and no symptoms. Vaxed, 10 days and no symptoms, though if it was something really important, a negative rapid test with no symptoms a couple days before that might might be okay, but depends on the situation (indoor, outdoor?)

[prairiewindmomma]

This depends on a lot of things for me. 1. Are you going to be able to be fully masked around them or is this something like a wedding where you will feel socially obligated to unmask for things like photos? 
2. Are you medically fragile or do you have medically fragile people that you are typically unmasked around?

So for me, as someone who is medically fragile, I won’t be around people who I can’t mask with unless it’s something really big like my sibling getting married. So, if I am able to wear a N95 around them, I am good at day 14, provided they have been fever free for a few days. If this is a wedding and I have to stand next to them, I would want them (and everybody else) to test negative beforehand and that may take a bit longer. I hear of people who test positive for a few weeks so the “when” is kind of fluid.

I know a ton of people who have had breakthrough infections and with omicron being a wildcard and not everyone being boosted….I am on the cautious side because even pre-covid just basic influenza could put me on round the clock nebulizer treatments and I regularly masked pre-covid during peak influenza. 
 

I understand that others have different risk factors and may choose differently.

[maize]

Our local health department says 10 days from onset of symptoms or positive test, whichever came first. Less than ten days if they get two negative PCR tests before then.

14 days is for people with exposure, to account for incubation time before symptoms.

[maize]

Will they masked? Will you be wearing a high filtration mask? Have you had a booster? 

These would factor in for me. I'd be fine with ten days and would wear a KN95 mask if I were going to spend significant time near them. 

Actually I'd probably be fine with less isolation time if they mask. None of the vaccinated people in my household caught covid when some of my then-unvaccinated kids had it, and we were almost certainly exposed for several days before we knew it was in the household and started taking precautions.

Edited December 11, 2021 by maize

[Katy]

I’m not going near them for at least 3 weeks. Then they need no symptoms and a negative test. 

[Ailaena]

All of you who are saying you would want a negative PCR, did you know you can test positive on them for up to three months?  Even with a case that had no symptoms?

As for OP, as long as I was fully vaccinated and that person was willing to wear masks, be cautious with what they handle, had zero symptoms, I could mostly stay away from them, everybody knows they’re positive, and it was an extremely vital event, I may be fine at day 9 or 10. 

[KungFuPanda]

I’d do 10 days from the onset of symptoms as long as they were fever free for the last few days. Them having a mild case wouldn’t factor at all for me. 

[TechWife]

8 hours ago, sassenach said:

So say you have a family member that is supposed to travel for an important personal event and you found out that they tested positive for Covid recently and had mild symptoms. How many days out from onset and symptoms would you want them to be for YOU to feel comfortable (I know what the official recommendations are). 
 

 

Fourteen days. IIRC that’s the recommendation. I’ve no knowledge that would cause me to question the experts who have spent decades in their field of work and now years treating patients. I’d verify the recommendation & go from there. We’d be better off if everyone followed recommendations and the adjustments as new info is learned. The science of Covid is a dynamic field of practice, no need to ignore it or be passive aggressive with our response. 

[KungFuPanda]

3 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Fourteen days. IIRC that’s the recommendation. I’ve no knowledge that would cause me to question the experts who have spent decades in their field of work and now years treating patients. I’d verify the recommendation & go from there. We’d be better off if everyone followed recommendations and the adjustments as new info is learned. The science of Covid is a dynamic field of practice, no need to ignore it or be passive aggressive with our response. 

Isn’t the 14 days in exposure cases because it could take that long for symptoms to show? If you have no symptoms, your good after 14 days. If you develop symptoms your countdown starts from there as to when you can break quarantine. 

[Miss Tick]

1 hour ago, Ailaena said:

All of you who are saying you would want a negative PCR, did you know you can test positive on them for up to three months?  Even with a case that had no symptoms?

As for OP, as long as I was fully vaccinated and that person was willing to wear masks, be cautious with what they handle, had zero symptoms, I could mostly stay away from them, everybody knows they’re positive, and it was an extremely vital event, I may be fine at day 9 or 10. 

I read the negative tests as a way to foreshorten quarantine, but if you are positive, continue quarantine to term. I know someone who was still testing positive 6 months after being infected. So in a similar fashion as TB, I think you are correct that a negative test wouldn't be a good universal requirement for being able to leave quarantine.

[ktgrok]

10 days, with no fever for the last few days, and other symptoms improving. 

[freesia]

7 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

10 days, with no fever for the last few days, and other symptoms improving. 

This is what I’d do, too, in your situation and what I’ve done in practice with a break through case in my house. However, with friends who tested positive, I did wait 14 because there was no important reason to get together at 10 days. 

[sassenach]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

Fourteen days. IIRC that’s the recommendation. I’ve no knowledge that would cause me to question the experts who have spent decades in their field of work and now years treating patients. I’d verify the recommendation & go from there. We’d be better off if everyone followed recommendations and the adjustments as new info is learned. The science of Covid is a dynamic field of practice, no need to ignore it or be passive aggressive with our response. 

By your tone it seems like you thought I was talking about adjusting down, but it's actually the opposite. 

[Katy]

2 hours ago, Ailaena said:

All of you who are saying you would want a negative PCR, did you know you can test positive on them for up to three months?  Even with a case that had no symptoms?

As for OP, as long as I was fully vaccinated and that person was willing to wear masks, be cautious with what they handle, had zero symptoms, I could mostly stay away from them, everybody knows they’re positive, and it was an extremely vital event, I may be fine at day 9 or 10. 

I don’t care. If they are still producing virus, they’re still contagious. I don’t care about economic risk/benefit analysis, I care about keeping it out of my family. I might feel differently if the highest risk member of my family was old enough to vaccinate. I need to delay heart failure as long as possible for my youngest child, preferably at least age 5, when the surgery she’ll need for heart defects becomes safer. 

[maize]

3 hours ago, Ailaena said:

All of you who are saying you would want a negative PCR, did you know you can test positive on them for up to three months?  Even with a case that had no symptoms?

As for OP, as long as I was fully vaccinated and that person was willing to wear masks, be cautious with what they handle, had zero symptoms, I could mostly stay away from them, everybody knows they’re positive, and it was an extremely vital event, I may be fine at day 9 or 10. 

Negative tests just allow isolation to end before the 10 day period.

Doesn't mean isolation can't end after ten days if tests are still positive.

[sassenach]

So here's the story. My dad is supposed to come for my graduation on Friday the 17th. I just learned that my university is only allowing vaccinated persons to attend, so I called him last night to break that news. While we're on the phone he sounded weird and he tells me that he tested positive on Dec 1, started having symptoms Dec 2, and started to improve Dec 7. It sounds like an exceedingly mild case. Didn't even run a fever, basically a cold. So from when I would see him it will be 15 days post symptoms and 10 days post improvement. The thing is, I am having a celebration that will have about 50 people, outdoors, but mingling. The vast majority of these people are vaccinated. It's all my church people and afaik there's less than 10 unvaccinated people in our whole church membership. He was also supposed to stay with friends of mine, but the wife is unvaccinated (this is already off the table). Also, my son's nurse is unvaccinated and I feel protective of her. 

I have been somewhere in the middle with covid cautiousness. I have people in my life that aren't vaccinated and I feel ok with that. In general I'm at peace moving through a world of mixed vaccine status and being ok with exposure risks....but being in this position- where it's my call and I need to decide whether he is safe to travel about and potentially expose others- I didn't count on that. 

This has created a whole mess that I resent. He and I talked about this months ago and I wish he had just gotten the damn shot. 

 

ETA: I didn't finish my thought. So my original post- I know the CDC recommends 10 days from onset and 24hr no fever/improving symptoms. The WHO recommends 14 days from onset including 3 with no symptoms- that's quite a bit more conservative. I spent last night looking over some of the studies linked on the CDC and it's the outliers that make me feel uneasy about making this decision. My dad still has some congestion, so he's not symptom-free. Based on the CDC data he should be fine to come. Based on The WHO recommendations, he should be ok to come if his symptoms resolve by Tuesday. I'm just trying to decide what would make me feel ok.

Edited December 11, 2021 by sassenach

[sassenach]

9 minutes ago, Katy said:

I don’t care. If they are still producing virus, they’re still contagious. I don’t care about economic risk/benefit analysis, I care about keeping it out of my family. I might feel differently if the highest risk member of my family was old enough to vaccinate. I need to delay heart failure as long as possible for my youngest child, preferably at least age 5, when the surgery she’ll need for heart defects becomes safer. 

But they're not producing replicable virus. There's a bunch of info on the CDC page about this. It's been studied. It's RNA fragments that will still produce a positive test but not virions that are capable of infecting.

[Katy]

4 minutes ago, sassenach said:

But they're not producing replicable virus. There's a bunch of info on the CDC page about this. It's been studied. It's RNA fragments that will still produce a positive test but not virions that are capable of infecting.

I’d rather be paranoid than make a fatal mistake, so I’m going to follow the advice of my child’s cardiologist.  One of the concerns about Omicron is that it may be contagious for longer than previous variants. I won’t risk my child’s life on that not being true for this or future variants. 

[sassenach]

Just now, Katy said:

I’d rather be paranoid than make a fatal mistake, so I’m going to follow the advice of my child’s cardiologist.  One of the concerns about Omicron is that it may be contagious for longer than previous variants. I won’t risk my child’s life on that not being true for this or future variants. 

Oh for sure you should make any decision that makes you comfortable. Just wanted to make sure that you understood the nature of positive PCR tests post-covid. 

Omicron- yeah, I wish we had more data right now.

[MEmama]

Am I reading that he still has symptoms and your party is next week? If I were at your party and someone who had been positive and sick with covid so recently were there and I hadn’t been told in advance I would be furious. Like, end a close friendship kind of furious.

Just because it was mild for him doesn’t mean it would be mild or welcome for anyone he might infect. 
 

If you are comfortable with the risk, please at least extend the courtesy of being upfront with your guests so they can make their own decisions. 

[sassenach]

5 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Am I reading that he still has symptoms and your party is next week? If I were at your party and someone who had been positive and sick with covid so recently were there and I hadn’t been told in advance I would be furious. Like, end a close friendship kind of furious.

Just because it was mild for him doesn’t mean it would be mild or welcome for anyone he might infect. 
 

If you are comfortable with the risk, please at least extend the courtesy of being upfront with your guests so they can make their own decisions. 

This is exactly my dilemma. According to the CDC and a lot of the responses here, he should be in the clear. But when it's real life and you have to make the decision, it does not feel safe to have him come.

 

And my point about it being mild was just to say his symptoms are resolving, but they are not completely gone. But the whole 24 hour fever free thing doesn't really help because he never got sick enough to run a fever. 

[rebcoola]

I would want 14 days since onset 72hrs symptom free for something like that. 

[maize]

35 minutes ago, sassenach said:

So here's the story. My dad is supposed to come for my graduation on Friday. I just learned that my university is only allowing vaccinated persons to attend, so I called him last night to break that news. While we're on the phone he sounded weird and he tells me that he tested positive on Dec 1, started having symptoms Dec 2, and started to improve Dec 7. It sounds like an exceedingly mild case. Didn't even run a fever, basically a cold. So from when I would see him it will be 15 days post symptoms and 10 days post improvement. The thing is, I am having a celebration that will have about 50 people, outdoors, but mingling. The vast majority of these people are vaccinated. It's all my church people and afaik there's less than 10 unvaccinated people in our whole church membership. He was also supposed to stay with friends of mine, but the wife is unvaccinated. Also, my son's nurse is unvaccinated and I feel protective of her. 

I have been somewhere in the middle with covid cautiousness. I have people in my life that aren't vaccinated and I feel ok with that. In general I'm at peace moving through a world of mixed vaccine status and being ok with exposure risks....but being in this position- where it's my call and I need to decide whether he is safe to travel about and potentially expose others- I didn't count on that. 

This has created a whole mess that I resent. He and I talked about this months ago and I wish he had just gotten the damn shot. 

 

ETA: I didn't finish my thought. So my original post- I know the CDC recommends 10 days from onset and 24hr no fever/improving symptoms. The WHO recommends 14 days from onset including 3 with no symptoms- that's quite a bit more conservative. I spent last night looking over some of the studies linked on the CDC and it's the outliers that make me feel uneasy about making this decision. My dad still has some congestion, so he's not symptom-free. Based on the CDC data he should be fine to come. Based on The WHO recommendations, he should be ok to come if his symptoms resolve by Tuesday. I'm just trying to decide what would make me feel ok.

Would he be willing to do a PCR test? Most likely it will be negative. I know there are outlier cases that continue to test positive, but they are rare. My kids who had covid were all testing negative within a couple of weeks.

I really think the greater transmission threat is people who are pre-symptomatic or mildly symptomatic early in the infection cycle and have not tested. Someone who is more that 14 days out from testing positive with a mild case would statistically be a very, very, very low transmission risk.

 

 

[sassenach]

2 minutes ago, maize said:

Would he be willing to do a PCR test? Most likely it will be negative. I know there are outlier cases that continue to test positive, but they are rare. My kids who had covid were all testing negative within a couple of weeks.

I really think the greater transmission threat is people who are pre-symptomatic or mildly symptomatic early in the infection cycle and have not tested. Someone who is more that 14 days out from testing positive with a mild case would statistically be a very, very, very low transmission risk.

 

 

He is getting retested today. His plan was to keep testing and only come if he got a negative. That's a reassuring plan but there's always the false positive post-covid thing.

I'm leaning toward the WHO guidelines of wanting 3 days no symptoms. Maybe plus a negative test. 

[Storygirl]

I'm sorry you are in this situation. I don't have great advice to offer, except to say that I feel more comfortable being around one of my unvaccinated relatives, knowing that she had Covid, because it's less likely that she might be positive. If you decide that he's okay to come, at least you will know that he has antibodies and is less of a risk to be around.

If his symptoms resolve by Tuesday, and if he can stay in a hotel by himself, rather than in someone's house, and since your event is outdoors, I think the risk will be minimal, given that he will be beyond the recommended time frames.

I would be frustrated with him, too. Sorry.

CONGRATULATIONS on your graduation!!!

[Jean in Newcastle]

So he’s still unvaccinated but is coming to the graduation which requires vaccination?  Or is he just coming to the party?  

[sassenach]

2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

So he’s still unvaccinated but is coming to the graduation which requires vaccination?  Or is he just coming to the party?  

No, he can't come to the graduation ceremony. And he won't be staying with our friends. This is basically about the party, my home, and anyone else he might interact with on his travels.

[prairiewindmomma]

Congrats on graduating!

I have the negative test guideline for unmasked group situations because it is a clear bright line in a world where I hear a lot of “it’s just allergies” etc. If someone is unvaccinated at this point they aren’t necessarily high on my list of people to trust—-there have to be some extraordinary circumstances because in my circle it’s the people with cancer, people with heart conditions, people with immunological issues (the traditional excuses for delaying live vaccines) who are being pushed by doctors to get vaccinated. As I mentioned above I think I’d be willing to waive my test standard if I could mask…we’re talking about what it would take for me to feel comfortable. I totally know people who have had mild reinfections within 90 days. They probably never developed antibodies. 
 

But, as I said, I am in a position where I am trusting people with my life when I choose to socialize. I know it’s a different set of dynamics for others. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

11 minutes ago, sassenach said:

No, he can't come to the graduation ceremony. And he won't be staying with our friends. This is basically about the party, my home, and anyone else he might interact with on his travels.

Would he be willing to mask at the party?  

[happi duck]

Iiwm, since he can't attend graduation I'd rather wait to celebrate on our own when other guests aren't involved and he's fully recovered and maybe eventually vaccinated.

[sassenach]

11 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Would he be willing to mask at the party?  

Yes, he's good about masking. 

DH and I just talked about it. We're going to go with the 3 days no symptoms plan (he'll be 15 days post onset). I'm not telling him the plan. I'm just going to call him Tuesday and get an honest assessment of how he feels. 

[cjzimmer1]

36 minutes ago, maize said:

Would he be willing to do a PCR test? Most likely it will be negative. I know there are outlier cases that continue to test positive, but they are rare. My kids who had covid were all testing negative within a couple of weeks.

I find that interesting.  My DS had symptoms for about 3 days (so really mild case) but his work had a policy that no one could return until they tested negative.  6 weeks later he was still testing positive (and thus working from home). We talked to public health extensively about it and they gave him a letter and said yes he was completely safe to return to the public. They said it was very common to test positive long after the quarantine period ended.  DS never did get a negative test, his work finally decided they were desperate to have him back in the office so he didn't continue testing.  I have no idea how much longer he would test positive but from what public health said it could have been quite a while.

[sassenach]

1 minute ago, cjzimmer1 said:

I find that interesting.  My DS had symptoms for about 3 days (so really mild case) but his work had a policy that no one could return until they tested negative.  6 weeks later he was still testing positive (and thus working from home). We talked to public health extensively about it and they gave him a letter and said yes he was completely safe to return to the public. They said it was very common to test positive long after the quarantine period ended.  DS never did get a negative test, his work finally decided they were desperate to have him back in the office so he didn't continue testing.  I have no idea how much longer he would test positive but from what public health said it could have been quite a while.

I've read up to 90 days.

The hospitals ran into this problem when the original guidelines (way back in 2020) were to have a negative test and HCW couldn't return for weeks and weeks. Then they did the studies and discovered that there was no viral reproduction despite the positive PCR.

[Faith-manor]

For us, we follow grand son's cardiologist guidelines, and until he knows more about omicron, he is very careful. His recommendation is 14 days after the person has no more symptoms, and then that person needs to mask when coming around for another week. Thankfully our grandson just had his first shot. Took a while to find the vax because so few people in their area are vaxing their kids, their pediatrician didn't have it, and none of his colleagues in had it on hand either. 

We are all vaxed, and at this point in order to increase protection for our grandsons, dd and hubby are not allowing unvaxed 5 years old -adults around the boys. They don't go into stores, and the two families they socialize with are vaxed for everyone but the under fives, and are super covid conscientious. Our almost two year old grandson wears a little mask like a pro and so do the under fives in these two families. They play a lot outside without masks, but when weather doesn't cooperated they mask and come indoors.

So my threshold, if I were in your shoes, would be there hasn't been enough time elapsed from his symptoms to attend my party. But if literally everyone else is vaxed, and he is willing to mask the whole time, it is safer. Only you can know. However, it might also be good to run this past some of the other folks attending your party and see how they feel about it since they are affected by the decision.

[MEmama]

9 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I've read up to 90 days.

The hospitals ran into this problem when the original guidelines (way back in 2020) were to have a negative test and HCW couldn't return for weeks and weeks. Then they did the studies and discovered that there was no viral reproduction despite the positive PCR.

Yeah this was a big concern if DS had been positive. Even if he was fully recovered he still might have tested positive and wouldn’t have been able to come home for the holidays.

Actually there is a workaround, but it would have been difficult to get a letter declaring him free to travel since he doesn’t have a GP there.

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

I don’t care. If they are still producing virus, they’re still contagious. I don’t care about economic risk/benefit analysis, I care about keeping it out of my family. I might feel differently if the highest risk member of my family was old enough to vaccinate. I need to delay heart failure as long as possible for my youngest child, preferably at least age 5, when the surgery she’ll need for heart defects becomes safer. 

Many hugs to you as you navigate this awful time we are in. I care. 

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, sassenach said:

By your tone it seems like you thought I was talking about adjusting down, but it's actually the opposite. 

No, when I posted I had  no idea which way you’re leaning. I’m just a straightforward kinda person is all. 

[sassenach]

49 minutes ago, TechWife said:

No, when I posted I had  no idea which way you’re leaning. I’m just a straightforward kinda person is all. 

Got it. I guess I misread the  "no need to ignore it or be passive aggressive with our response" tone?  It's good to know that you'd be ok with him attending. Thanks for your input. 

[KungFuPanda]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

For us, we follow grand son's cardiologist guidelines, and until he knows more about omicron, he is very careful. His recommendation is 14 days after the person has no more symptoms, and then that person needs to mask when coming around for another week. Thankfully our grandson just had his first shot. Took a while to find the vax because so few people in their area are vaxing their kids, their pediatrician didn't have it, and none of his colleagues in had it on hand either. 

We are all vaxed, and at this point in order to increase protection for our grandsons, dd and hubby are not allowing unvaxed 5 years old -adults around the boys. They don't go into stores, and the two families they socialize with are vaxed for everyone but the under fives, and are super covid conscientious. Our almost two year old grandson wears a little mask like a pro and so do the under fives in these two families. They play a lot outside without masks, but when weather doesn't cooperated they mask and come indoors.

So my threshold, if I were in your shoes, would be there hasn't been enough time elapsed from his symptoms to attend my party. But if literally everyone else is vaxed, and he is willing to mask the whole time, it is safer. Only you can know. However, it might also be good to run this past some of the other folks attending your party and see how they feel about it since they are affected by the decision.

This is insane.  In my area people are scrambling to get their elementary students vaccinated. When they do public vax clinics there are cars lined up around the block and this is for pre-booked appointments.  The first time I saw the traffic they were holding the event at an interfaith center.  I got really depressed because I thought all of those people were in line for a Thanksgiving meal.

 

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

This is insane.  In my area people are scrambling to get their elementary students vaccinated. When they do public vax clinics there are cars lined up around the block and this is for pre-booked appointments.  The first time I saw the traffic they were holding the event at an interfaith center.  I got really depressed because I thought all of those people were in line for a Thanksgiving meal.

 

I my area, doctors are predicting single digit vax rates for 5-11 year olds. Only 11% of 12-17 year olds are vaxed. Of adults, 45% though the rest of state is collectively around 62% if memory serves. Not only that, doctors have reported that this anti-covid vax is spilling over onto other vaccinations and we are at record lows for Dtap, MMR, Hib, etc., and that ER's are seeing adults refusing tetanus anti toxin and vaccine for themselves and their children when they come in for stitches. I guess people would rather they and their loved one die of lock jaw than take the "gubmint's" shot. Sigh. And even with treatment there is still something like a 50% chance of death from that disease. I don't get it. I feel like so many people are gunning for a Darwin Award.

[Pam in CT]

re graduation: CONGRATULATIONS!!!  Well done!

re lingering positive PCR tests - my eldest had a completely asymptomatic breakthrough case in early September (which she only discovered because she tested just-in-case before visiting an octogenarian friend), and was still coming up PCR positive at Thanksgiving. Her doctor told her to use the rapid antigens instead for just-in-case visiting, and those have come in negative.

re the plan - I think the plan itself is reasonable. If it were me, my only concern would be *other guests* who might make different choices if they knew a recent positive was milling about. You don't know -- can't know -- which of your guests is just on their COVID line, OTOH really really wanting to celebrate your special day and OTO balancing their exposure because they have an immunocompromised parent living in their home (or etc).  Who's just gone through their own agonistes and decided to come... but might decide differently if they knew a quite recently recovered person would be milling about.

I dunno. This is all so hard.