Oy Vey! Folks If you have a moment, even though it is really hard to do, think a supportive thought for Anna Duggar

[Faith-manor]

Multiple court room reporters have said she is breaking down. I am glad Derrick is with her. The computer forensic expert has confirmed, and boy it looks like this is going to be impossible for the defense to poke holes in, that Josh was the only person at the car dealership during the downloads of the worst of the content.

Yesterday, due to Anna's cell phone number being part of the evidence because he texted her throughout the downloads, her cell phone number was on display in court, and apparently, she might not have been warned this would happen.

She is weeping for all those eyes to see. And gets because of her cult training as the horror of what he has done sinks in, she will be required by her headship the Jim bob to hold that sociopath's hand as she leaves the courthouse today, and he can withhold food and shelter from her if she doesn't do it. I hope Derrick and Jill are willing to take her and the M's in. I hope CPS gets involved and says she has to leave or risk losing the kids. I hope. I dare to hope knowing that this cult is so adept at beating women into the ground, there is not much of a chance she will.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Faith-manor

[MercyA]

Praying that she will accept the evidence and keep her children away from him entirely until they are adults. 

Poor woman. I know this is not what she hoped for in life. 

[Katy]

I’ve been praying for her to see the truth and break free from the cult.  I’m afraid that’s going to come with a lot of breaking down.  And hopefully help her agree to get her kids in with a proper forensic abuse examiner trained MD.

[Melissa Louise]

I've never found it hard to feel sorry for her. She's a brainwashed woman in some type of sex/fertility cult. We all know that Josh's sin will be laid at her feet. 

[Ottakee]

It is a tough place to be.  I knew the charges were true before we got to court but she has likely be convinced they were not true.  Sitting in court like that is horrible, and I only had local news present and only a few people in a court room and my ex was in custody (I refused to let him in the house after the arrest).

 

She needs so much help and support as do the kids.  Their names are plastered all over the media so even starting over, everyone will know them as his kids.

[Katy]

Do you have links?

[Rosie_0801]

Well, the court has just given JB a good "reason" to protect Anna by confiscating her phone.

[gardenmom5]

On other sites, I have posted in response to all the "she should be in jail/not-have-custody/must do it too/etc." attacks on her  . . . that she is brainwashed to think, basically, it's her fault.   And they gave her (and I'm sure her parents) a very sanitized version of events.  (I've seen a couple people still quoting that sanitized version of events to defend Josh.)
I'm glad to say I'm seeing other respondents also bringing up that Anna was brainwashed.

 

eta: I hope her brother offers again to get her out - and she takes him up on it.  And get's professional (and licensed) help.

Edited December 3, 2021 by gardenmom5

[Faith-manor]

13 minutes ago, Katy said:

Do you have links?

I can't post them. The observation is embedded in disturbing comments that I won't post here. I can't! I just can't have my friends here go read that stuff.

So if you want to disregard the OP, I am not offended.

[Katy]

Can you state where you’re seeing without links?  I just see she got angry when her phone number and email address were shared.

[busymama7]

51 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Well, the court has just given JB a good "reason" to protect Anna by confiscating her phone.

What happened here? I'm confused. 

[Rosie_0801]

4 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

What happened here? I'm confused. 

What Faith said here:

"Yesterday, due to Anna's cell phone number being part of the evidence because he texted her throughout the downloads, her cell phone number was on display in court, and apparently, she might not have been warned this would happen."

[BusyMom5]

This poor woman.  Part of me feels so sorry for her.  Since birth she was brainwashed into this cult.  The other part of me feels like she has so many resources,  how has she stood there all this time!  It has been years.  

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, BusyMom5 said:

This poor woman.  Part of me feels so sorry for her.  Since birth she was brainwashed into this cult.  The other part of me feels like she has so many resources,  how has she stood there all this time!  It has been years.  

Oh, definitely feel sorry for her.  She never had a chance.  

[busymama7]

2 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

What Faith said here:

"Yesterday, due to Anna's cell phone number being part of the evidence because he texted her throughout the downloads, her cell phone number was on display in court, and apparently, she might not have been warned this would happen."

Ok sorry I read what you said as the *court* confiscating her phone. I get it now thanks 

[Hen]

I am praying for her.  I was judging her for not leaving, but then I read on the reddit thread a poster who was at a marriage retreat with J & A after the Ashley madison stuff came out, and said he witnessed her walking around a pond in the early a.m. sobbing.  I really feel for her and how trapped she must of felt having many children.  I don't understand why she went on to have more children with him, but I do believe she is brainwashed.  

I hope she leaves, and I hope her family helps her. 

 

[thewellerman]

Without being able to prove he was a danger to their kids, she would have had to share custody.  Maybe she stayed because at least she could be there all the time and protect them.

I pray she is able to recover and they can all be okay.  

[Melissa Louise]

7 minutes ago, Hen said:

I am praying for her.  I was judging her for not leaving, but then I read on the reddit thread a poster who was at a marriage retreat with J & A after the Ashley madison stuff came out, and said he witnessed her walking around a pond in the early a.m. sobbing.  I really feel for her and how trapped she must of felt having many children.  I don't understand why she went on to have more children with him, but I do believe she is brainwashed.  

I hope she leaves, and I hope her family helps her. 

 

There's an obvious reason why a woman with a pos husband has more children. I don't think this cult is huge on enthusiastic consent, put it that way. 

 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

I can't post them. The observation is embedded in disturbing comments that I won't post here. I can't! I just can't have my friends here go read that stuff.

So if you want to disregard the OP, I am not offended.

 

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Can you state where you’re seeing without links?  I just see she got angry when her phone number and email address were shared.

I think it would be fine to post the links, especially if you include a warning for those who might be sensitive to the disturbing stuff. 

Like Katy, I haven't been able to find the info on my own, either, so I would really appreciate the link.

[Rosie_0801]

30 minutes ago, thewellerman said:

Without being able to prove he was a danger to their kids, she would have had to share custody.  Maybe she stayed because at least she could be there all the time and protect them.

I pray she is able to recover and they can all be okay.  

At best.
It'd have been pretty easy for her inlaws to get her judged as the untrustworthy party. 

[Tree Frog]

Is it possible someone is watching her kids and won't release them if the babysitter/cult member knows she wants to leave? It might not be a simple choice to pick up the kids and go stay with her brother or sister.

[Guest]

Maybe it is my relentless optimism, but I do think there is a chance for her. People change the script they were handed all the bloody time. Faith did; I did too. Obviously it’s more difficult if you married that way and embraced it to the point you had seven kids - I mean, I saw that that stuff was crazy earlier in my life than Anna, and I had an older sister who “rebelled” against the IBLP ways - but still. It is not *impossible* for her to reflect on everything and change her mind/beliefs. She may look at Jill and Derrick and re-evaluate, for instance. 

[Frances]

7 minutes ago, Quill said:

Maybe it is my relentless optimism, but I do think there is a chance for her. People change the script they were handed all the bloody time. Faith did; I did too. Obviously it’s more difficult if you married that way and embraced it to the point you had seven kids - I mean, I saw that that stuff was crazy earlier in my life than Anna, and I had an older sister who “rebelled” against the IBLP ways - but still. It is not *impossible* for her to reflect on everything and change her mind/beliefs. She may look at Jill and Derrick and re-evaluate, for instance. 

Plus, haven’t a higher percentage of her siblings left the family’s belief system, compared to the Duggars? So it’s not like she will be the first, which has to help to some degree.

[katilac]

3 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

I hope Derrick and Jill are willing to take her and the M's in. 

I don't that would be a good idea myself. Support her as they can, yes, but the abuser's wife moving in with the victim? That's probably not the most emotionally healthy option. 

And, practically speaking, I don't see them as being able to take in an adult and seven kids, even if other people helped with money. That would almost triple the number of people in their house! 

[BlsdMama]

It’s sinking in for me that this really might be the first time she’s letting in sink in that he really is a monster. I can’t imagine her pain knowing she has children with him and they will always bear that pain. 

[DawnM]

For some reason the house they were living in before isn't available.   I thought it was JB and Michelle's house and they were letting them live there????   Is that not the case?   

[BusyMom5]

59 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

It’s sinking in for me that this really might be the first time she’s letting in sink in that he really is a monster. I can’t imagine her pain knowing she has children with him and they will always bear that pain. 

And its not just him.  Her parents knew, and they basically bartered her to him in an attempt to control his sick urges.    

[Farrar]

Given how high profile all this is, I find it hard to believe that if there was a custody dispute that the court would grant the Duggars custody and take the kids from Anna. I mean, maybe I'm being naive. I can easily believe that in normal cases like this that could happen. But in this particular situation with the media scrutiny, I don't see that.

ETA: I can imagine her having her custody threatened/taken in a general sense though. Poor woman.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Farrar

[prairiewindmomma]

I hope Maria Reber has left for the weekend to go see family. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Just now, Farrar said:

Given how high profile all this is, I find it hard to believe that if there was a custody dispute that the court would grant the Duggars custody and take the kids from Anna. I mean, maybe I'm being naive. I can easily believe that in normal cases like this that could happen. But in this particular situation with the media scrutiny, I don't see that.

I think the high profile nature of this case with the specific details so widely shared is one of the best things that could happen for the safety of the M kids. Any sane or rational person would support Anna leaving with the kids and never seeing a Duggar again.

[lauraw4321]

I’m concerned that she only seemed upset that her phone number and bank information was posted.  I’m not convinced she was upset by the allegations. I hope I’m wrong. 

[Farrar]

I mean, she's known about the allegations for awhile. If she broke down in court over the release of her private info, I don't think that has anything to do with whether or not she was or wasn't upset by the actual crimes her husband committed. 

[lauraw4321]

1 minute ago, Farrar said:

I mean, she's known about the allegations for awhile. If she broke down in court over the release of her private info, I don't think that has anything to do with whether or not she was or wasn't upset by the actual crimes her husband committed. 

I’m not being clear. What I mean is that I don’t think tears means she believes the charges against him. I think people were hoping the tears means she finally believed he was guilty. I hope that’s the case, but I don’t think that’s true. 

[Farrar]

Just now, lauraw4321 said:

I’m not being clear. What I mean is that I don’t think tears means she believes the charges against him. I think people were hoping the tears means she finally believed he was guilty. I hope that’s the case, but I don’t think that’s true. 

Yeah, I agree. It doesn't mean anything either way. Anyone would react to being put in the crosshairs for the sort of harassment that having your phone number made public in a case like that regardless of their feelings about the case. And of course she's under a ton of pressure. But again, that pressure exists whether she's still drinking the Kool-Aid or whether she's trapped and appalled and can't find a way out.

[Katy]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

For some reason the house they were living in before isn't available.   I thought it was JB and Michelle's house and they were letting them live there????   Is that not the case?   

I think there’s been 3 houses.  The first was owned by JB. The second they bought with cash then sold when the raid happened. Around the same time they opened a bunch of LLC’s, mostly in Anna’s name, in a likely attempt  to hide assets from the feds. The third house was sold to them very cheaply by JB and they sold it about the time they needed to pay the attorneys in excess of half a million in advances for trial. 

[DawnM]

4 minutes ago, Katy said:

I think there’s been 3 houses.  The first was owned by JB. The second they bought with cash then sold when the raid happened. Around the same time they opened a bunch of LLC’s, mostly in Anna’s name, in a likely attempt  to hide assets from the feds. The third house was sold to them very cheaply by JB and they sold it about the time they needed to pay the attorneys in excess of half a million in advances for trial. 

Ah, thanks for explaining.   I heard they were living in a warehouse that JB owned?   Is that where Anna is staying now?

[prairiewindmomma]

26 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I’m concerned that she only seemed upset that her phone number and bank information was posted.  I’m not convinced she was upset by the allegations. I hope I’m wrong. 

I think this points to how out of the loop she was in pre-trial prep. Her husband never thought to change the passwords to their shared accounts or tell her to after being busted? She didn’t understand the scope of the digital forensic investigation? 

[prairiewindmomma]

They have been in the warehouse since 2019, which is on JB’s property. Season 9 Episode 5 of Counting On shows the warehouse.

[prairiewindmomma]

Season 5 episode 9…reread that and realized I had swapped the numbers 

[Farrar]

They live in a warehouse?! Is it… a nice warehouse? 

[Katy]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

Ah, thanks for explaining.   I heard they were living in a warehouse that JB owned?   Is that where Anna is staying now?

The warehouse has been converted to guest quarters.  It’s finished like a house but definitely doesn’t have legal fire egress.  Rumor has it the kids are farmed out or staying at the big house, and Anna has handed of the newborn to her oldest, and she’s staying with Josh every night at his insistence. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

Given how high profile all this is, I find it hard to believe that if there was a custody dispute that the court would grant the Duggars custody and take the kids from Anna. I mean, maybe I'm being naive. I can easily believe that in normal cases like this that could happen. But in this particular situation with the media scrutiny, I don't see that.

ETA: I can imagine her having her custody threatened/taken in a general sense though. Poor woman.

I can imagine JB et. al threatening her if she doesn't toe-the-line, they'll take the kids from her.  (doesn't mean they can, just threaten).  It's already been brought up that the teachings are it's the wife's fault., and she needs to repent.  So she's been living with that too.
And JB & M are very "Josh is being persecuted for being a christian". um, no.  (and I'm a Christian.)

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I think the high profile nature of this case with the specific details so widely shared is one of the best things that could happen for the safety of the M kids. Any sane or rational person would support Anna leaving with the kids and never seeing a Duggar again.

OK-  define M kids.  Do all of Anna's children have "M" names and they are the M kids?    

I'd love her to get away from JB & M.  I hope her brother reaches out to her again.

1 hour ago, lauraw4321 said:

I’m concerned that she only seemed upset that her phone number and bank information was posted.  I’m not convinced she was upset by the allegations. I hope I’m wrong. 

She's been being told all along how Josh is being persecuted.  She's heard a sanitized version of previous events, but who knows if she's heard any of the actual evidence against him before the trial.  

 

And are there only two charges against him that carry a max of 20 years each?   That just doesn't seem right.

[Ottakee]

19 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

 

And are there only two charges against him that carry a max of 20 years each?   That just doesn't seem right.

I might be wrong but these might just be the federal charges.   The state might still bring other charges later if evidence comes up of him molesting children.

In my ex's case, the federal case came first and he was convicted and sentenced to 90 years.   He had state charges pending for molestation but they were dropped since his federal sentence meant he would never get out.

Had he taken the 15 year plea deal, then the state would have pressed the molestation charges and if convicted of those he would have had the state sentence to serve after his federal sentence.

[gardenmom5]

49 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

I might be wrong but these might just be the federal charges.   The state might still bring other charges later if evidence comes up of him molesting children.

In my ex's case, the federal case came first and he was convicted and sentenced to 90 years.   He had state charges pending for molestation but they were dropped since his federal sentence meant he would never get out.

Had he taken the 15 year plea deal, then the state would have pressed the molestation charges and if convicted of those he would have had the state sentence to serve after his federal sentence.

I hope so - he's too dangerous to ever be "out".

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

They live in a warehouse?! Is it… a nice warehouse? 

It is not. 

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

 

OK-  define M kids.  Do all of Anna's children have "M" names and they are the M kids?    

 

Correct. 

[NorthwestMom]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

The warehouse has been converted to guest quarters.  It’s finished like a house but definitely doesn’t have legal fire egress.  Rumor has it the kids are farmed out or staying at the big house, and Anna has handed of the newborn to her oldest, and she’s staying with Josh every night at his insistence. 

😱🤯

[prairiewindmomma]

I have always wondered how the warehouse got certified for habitation without windows. Like, why hasn’t the county or whoever does the code enforcement not shut that down?!!

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

The warehouse has been converted to guest quarters.  It’s finished like a house but definitely doesn’t have legal fire egress.  Rumor has it the kids are farmed out or staying at the big house, and Anna has handed of the newborn to her oldest, and she’s staying with Josh every night at his insistence. 

If she keeps staying with him after hearing the horrific evidence presented against him in court, and if she is not absolutely terrified that he may have molested their own children, I have even less respect for her than I have had all along. 

I have lost track of time -- how much longer will it be before she can get pregnant again? Because with her and Josh, it doesn't seem to be a matter of "if;" it seems to be a matter of "when."  🤮

[Tap]

6 hours ago, Hen said:

I am praying for her.  I was judging her for not leaving, but then I read on the reddit thread a poster who was at a marriage retreat with J & A after the Ashley madison stuff came out, and said he witnessed her walking around a pond in the early a.m. sobbing.  I really feel for her and how trapped she must of felt having many children.  I don't understand why she went on to have more children with him, but I do believe she is brainwashed.  

I hope she leaves, and I hope her family helps her. 

 

Is contraception allowed in thier faith? Even purposeful abstinence is considered contraception in some circles. In her world, having babies is the norm, so she may not have been making a conscious decision to have more children. It is just a normal bodily function and a blessing from God. She was fulfilling her cults wifely (gag) and mom duties

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

The warehouse has been converted to guest quarters.  It’s finished like a house but definitely doesn’t have legal fire egress.  Rumor has it the kids are farmed out or staying at the big house, and Anna has handed of the newborn to her oldest, and she’s staying with Josh every night at his insistence. 

I really hope she doesn't get pregnant again before he's locked up.  I hope he's taken into custody as soon as he's convicted, and not allowed to be out until sentencing.