Josh Duggar Trial Day 4 updates, I read the descriptions of what the Jury saw, I refuse to detail. Update 11:21 am EST, nor in OP.

[Faith-manor]

So I know on day 3 a lot of people were very conflicted about what the jury would or would not see, what Anna would see or what they wanted her to see. I am going to go over the potential issues noe without giving ANY details. Long statements coming up.

First of all, I did not sleep last night. As an IBLP/Gothard/Cult survivor, I have had a very strong vested interest in seeing this person brought to justice and JB and company exposed for exactly who they are. Some of you will recall many years ago when I tried to explain that this was a sex cult for the express purpose of grooming victims for all kinds of abuse, but very much for men to be able to dominate and get their kinks off under the veneer of christianity, a lot of people were pretty certain I was a judgemental shrew. And here we are. I did not suffer an nth of what the Duggar kids, the Bates, kids, the Keller kids, etc. have and yet that limited cult abuse for only a year and a few months of my life effectively ruined my relationship with my father for the remainder of his life, and took professional therapy in college for me to overcome so I could have a healthy relationship with my then so one-to-one husband. To say that all of these kids in these families are screwed up, not just the Duggar girls who were molested, is to make a profound understatement. My sister 2-3 years old at the time has had life along issues more severe than mine because of it and the fact that unfortunately for a very long time after my parents turned their backs on the cult, it still affected their parenting.

Therefore, in the hopes that people will see it for what it is, in the hopes that this will spark new interest in exposing it, in the hopes that others will have the courage to do what Jill and Jinger have done and break free of it, in the hopes that maybe some of the survivors will ban together and bankrupt the Duggars, the Gothard empire, I follow the trial and report on it for whomever is willing to listen and see the truth.

As to the nature of the materials and who should see them. You are right that it is mind boggling that a law abiding citizen of the general public could be compelled by law to serve on such a jury, and see and hear such heinous things. I have those thoughts too. But, what is the alternative? Do we give up the jury system? Do we serf the jurisdiction for volunteers? What does that say about the people who might volunteer? Are they good people who want to see justice done? Or are they monsters really excited to see the evidence? Would they be supporters of the cult who would show up for jury just to make sure scum bags get off? Do we go with professional juries? Vetted, background checked, character witnesses verified on their behalf, bond them, and pay them well? Would we want these decisions in the hands of people paid to make them? Do we just leave it up to judges to single handedly try cases and then hand down the sentences?

Joshua Duggar brought it to this point because he is such a malignant sociopath and narcissist that he refused to take a very generous plea deal. 10 years, small percentage of the maximum fines. 10 years isn't enough in my mind. But federal prisons are not resorts, psychological help is provided, he would start out in solitary and on suicide watch which is no picnic, and he is off the streets and away from the CSAM. His youngest child would be ten when he got out, and his first three kids, adults or nearly adults lowering the risk to them. Not ideal, but it saved a jury seeing this sh*t and the cost of trying him. Nope! Just would not do it. So here we are.

From my perspective, the best that could possibly be done to balance the needs of justice - present the evidence and verify that it is what it is and - it is very, very, very bad- with that of the potential trauma to jurists was accomplished. The worst of the materials was only provided in legal/medical descriptions. The worst of the video was not shown. The images they were required to look at were limited, and video clips kept brief. I of course not on the jury, did not see images or video clips, and am thankful. I have read the descriptions as they are a part of the court documents and public information if you want to go dig, and trust me, you do not. They made me physically ill, heart sick, and caused insomnia. I am a little better today. I am not full functioning. My darling husband brought ice cream and chocolate home last night, told me it was for supper, and made me a lemon drop martini. We talked, I curled up in a ball in his lap, and cried until I soaked the front of his shirt. And the thing is, I am normally very good at compartmentalizing, at shoving emotion down and being Mr. Spock, the emotionless Vulcan when needed. And it broke me. But, maybe the jury did better. Maybe my experiences with IBLP, my intense hatred of JB, Michelle, Josh, Gothard, Bates, and ilk, TLC for thinking it was a hoot to make celebrities of abusers, made it worse than it had to be. I don't know, and have no emotional space for evaluating that. I do believe we has taxpaying citizens owe this jury and any others like them, professional counseling and a luxury vacation afterward to decompress, even the replacement of their income for that vacation so they can be off work. It is the least we can do. It concerns me that the worst cases for juries to hear have no formal and paid for mental health access foe the jurists, the court reporters, the bailiffs the judges, nor the lawyers!

What I do know is that in our system, the evidence has to be presented. We can't have guilty verdicts without it. People would be railroaded by over zealous D.As if we didn't. So somebody has to see it. The prosecution team, with this in mind, did the best they could to present the evidence of his heinous crimes with the least amount of horror for the jury. The gallery could not see the screens, and Anna should NOT have seen those images in that environment. You can hate on her all you want, but hell no. Just hell no. And so do believe the children in these images have the human right to as few people viewing them as is possible while still making the case. Our justice system is pretty damn screwed up at times,.but this one they for right!

The only thing I will say concerning the images TRIGGER WARNING ALERT:

 

These were photo image dumps, the first had 65 and the second around 145 ish (memory failing me at the moment) plus the two videos. The age range of victims was 12 all the way down to 3 months. 

The investigators have Josh on recording admitting to knowing how to do the computer stuff that the defense said he was too dumb and uneducated to do. So that wasn't much of a defense.

Today, more forensic computer evidence is being presented, more testimony for the prosecution. They are nor likely to bring the molestations in yet, but much depends on how long cross examinations will take. I expect Derrick to be there if there is any chance Jill will be called today. Five chairs in the family section only, the courtroom is small, and you are only guaranteed to hear if you sit up front. Or course he is going to sit there. I would not speculate that being in support of Josh or not. Austin seems to get to the courthouse much later the two times he has come. So being the back is normal. The family section is reserved and reporters are NOT supposed to approach. Everyone else is fair game. So if I arrived and couldn't sit in the family section but was indeed family whom someone might true to corner and question, I would for sure be in that back row so I can escape at every break.

Updates will not be in this very long OP. I am going to get another cup of coffee, and be thankful for my absolutely precious husband.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Faith-manor

[Ottakee]

Sorry this is so triggering for you.

My ex refused a 15 year federal plea deal and ended up with 90 years.  In the end, as horrible as the trial was, and even more so for the victims, it is also good that he will never get out.

He was sure that he would beat this....likely the same thing here.

[Faith-manor]

5 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

Sorry this is so triggering for you.

My ex refused a 15 year federal plea deal and ended up with 90 years.  In the end, as horrible as the trial was, and even more so for the victims, it is also good that he will never get out.

He was sure that he would beat this....likely the same thing here.

Ottakee, I am convinced that there is a sociopathy/narcissism thing in these kinds of abusers that makes them so self-assured, so conceited, they honestly cannot imagine that their special snowflake behinds would never be convicted. I am so sorry you have had to endure this! I am just in awe of how amazing you have done for yourself and your children!!!

[prairiewindmomma]

Sending you all well wishes. I have been avoiding the details because I need to and thank you for your recaps.

[Faith-manor]

11:21 EST. It has been confirmed by local news as well as People and the Sun (no fan of either of them for sure because they are tabloid rags but in this case since local actual news stations also confirmed, I will accept it), that Anna was in the room yesterday when the descriptions were read aloud. So she did not see images, however, she heard the graphic detaiks I read yesterday that reduced me to tears and kept me awake all night.

It was also reported by a YouTube blogger person in the room that the prosecution briefly bumped their computer screen (because the lawyers for both sides have to see what the jury is seeing), and it had a VERY bad image that faced Derrick and Anna for several seconds. Obviously no one knows if she saw it. She could have been looking in another direction. The blogger person was sickened by it. But this has not been confirmed by another source. I would guess that regular reporters will not confirm even if they saw it. The news agencies locally have agreed to be super duper sensitive with the general public about the materials, and to never ever say or print the titles of the videos. I am grateful they are being responsible!

[bluemongoose]

Faith-I hear ya. I wont put the personal information on here to explain why I know...I believe you though. I have some window into this and I know that what you are saying is in fact very true. I am sorry that you and your family were hurt by this. I am sorry you are triggered. I am too. I have not been able to cry yet, partially because if I do I will trigger another person...so I am stuffing it. I too want justice for the sake of his sisters/victims and for CSA victims and this cult's victims. It all makes me sick and brings up too much. I want this scum behind bars and I too would like his parents to be included in that. They clearly are to blame as well. I appreciate the updates without all the details. I tried to read online but it was too triggering. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by bluemongoose
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