I don’t know what to do about my folks (super long)

[SKL]

My folks are in a similar situation.  I think it is likely that a pretty good percentage of elderly couples are.

I have made all sorts of suggestions that I'd be willing to bankroll, but like you said, there is reluctance to change that isn't necessarily rational.  And this is not a time of life when it is kind to take away the little bit of control they have over their lives.

Presently, I just figure we'll have to deal with most of this after my folks pass.  Which I truly hope is many years from now.

I do have siblings who live near my folks and have the ability to help them with health type stuff - to the extent they are willing to accept such help.  And one sibling has a big enough house that a parent could probably move in with him if that seemed helpful.  But the stuff ... either it would stay in the house it's in currently, or maybe it would be placed in a storage facility.

Honestly, the physical stuff is the least of the concerns IMO.  Unless it is incredibly expensive to store it, I'd let them keep it as long as they want to.

[Ausmumof3]

Would there be any point getting a professional organiser in to help them declutter? Not because you and family members etc aren’t capable but takes the emotional side of it away from being family members.  It kind of sounds like any move in with any of you is fairly temporary due to their health issues so it wouldn’t make tonnes of sense to majorly modify your house, but it’s probably a better option?

[gardenmom5]

One thought - Hoarding is related to depression.  Is one more prone to hoarding than the other?  have either been assessed for depression?

Not uncommon in elderly, especially those with health problems and their caregivers.

Also know - stress, can have a similar effect upon the brain.

 

Can you talk with their dr to have them eval'd?  or make suggestions of supplements that could be helpful.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

One thought - Hoarding is related to depression.  Is one more prone to hoarding than the other?  have either been assessed for depression?

Not uncommon in elderly, especially those with health problems and their caregivers.

Also know - stress, can have a similar effect upon the brain.

 

Can you talk with their dr to have them eval'd?  or make suggestions of supplements that could be helpful.

I don’t think so, I think it is related to poverty/scarcity and anxiety about having stuff. My parents always lived very frugally, but my mom especially would always buy thrift store and yard sale things. Also my mom especially has always imbued objects with stories and meaning. So for example she once bought a piece of furniture at a yard sale because the owner told her a story about making it particularly to store potatoes and onions from their garden. She didn’t need this thing but she liked the story attached to it, even though it wasn’t, say, her *father* who built the furniture for *his own* produce, kwim? 
 

Also, I don’t think my mom is prone to depression because she kind of just deludes herself with religious beliefs. Like, she doesn’t dwell on whatever could be better, she just explains it to herself by saying whatever the situation is is what God has planned for her life. That’s not anything new; she has always been like that since I was a kid. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Would there be any point getting a professional organiser in to help them declutter? Not because you and family members etc aren’t capable but takes the emotional side of it away from being family members.  It kind of sounds like any move in with any of you is fairly temporary due to their health issues so it wouldn’t make tonnes of sense to majorly modify your house, but it’s probably a better option?

I don’t think they would ever agree to that. The state of their house definitely has deep psychological roots. It has different meaning for my dad vs for my mom but they both collect and keep stuff for psychological reasons. Additionally, the excess stuff isn’t really the most significant problem; the disrepair of the house is. The stuff just compounds the problems because, for example, if water gets into the basement, the walls mold and it’s not fixable because there’s immovable stuff in the way. 
Really what they could use is those junk removal people because some of the things they *would* get rid of but they don’t have a way to. (Like, for ex., an old broken freezer.) Apparently my sister has floated this idea, though, and that is yet another thing they think it’s crazy to pay someone to do. 

[Ausmumof3]

18 minutes ago, Quill said:

I don’t think they would ever agree to that. The state of their house definitely has deep psychological roots. It has different meaning for my dad vs for my mom but they both collect and keep stuff for psychological reasons. Additionally, the excess stuff isn’t really the most significant problem; the disrepair of the house is. The stuff just compounds the problems because, for example, if water gets into the basement, the walls mold and it’s not fixable because there’s immovable stuff in the way. 
Really what they could use is those junk removal people because some of the things they *would* get rid of but they don’t have a way to. (Like, for ex., an old broken freezer.) Apparently my sister has floated this idea, though, and that is yet another thing they think it’s crazy to pay someone to do. 

Over here scrap metal people will come take freezers and washing machines for free as they get the money for scrapping.  You could try listing stuff they want gone free and see if you can clear a bit out that way? Or is it a case of time being an issue for you as well to handle that stuff?  
 

eta they made not come for a single item though.  They will if there’s a few bits to make it worth it.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[gardenmom5]

31 minutes ago, Quill said:

I don’t think so, I think it is related to poverty/scarcity and anxiety about having stuff. My parents always lived very frugally, but my mom especially would always buy thrift store and yard sale things. Also my mom especially has always imbued objects with stories and meaning. So for example she once bought a piece of furniture at a yard sale because the owner told her a story about making it particularly to store potatoes and onions from their garden. She didn’t need this thing but she liked the story attached to it, even though it wasn’t, say, her *father* who built the furniture for *his own* produce, kwim? 
 

Also, I don’t think my mom is prone to depression because she kind of just deludes herself with religious beliefs. Like, she doesn’t dwell on whatever could be better, she just explains it to herself by saying whatever the situation is is what God has planned for her life. That’s not anything new; she has always been like that since I was a kid. 

Trying to talk herself into happiness saying this is what God planned for her, doesn't mean she's happy.  Being attached to objects because they have a "story" isn't about being happy within herself - but relying upon things to make her happy.  That is a stress/depressive response.

I think she would benefit from being eval'd. 

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Over here scrap metal people will come take freezers and washing machines for free as they get the money for scrapping.  You could try listing stuff they want gone free and see if you can clear a bit out that way? Or is it a case of time being an issue for you as well to handle that stuff?  
 

eta they made not come for a single item though.  They will if there’s a few bits to make it worth it.

There might be something like that. I did look into a program the electric company puts on where they give you a $50 credit to remove a fridge, freezer or maybe washing machine. It would be something I would have to arrange, though, so yeah it would require my time. 

[Guest]

Just now, gardenmom5 said:

Trying to talk herself into happiness saying this is what God planned for her, doesn't mean she's happy.  Being attached to objects because they have a "story" isn't about being happy within herself - but relying upon things to make her happy.  That is a stress/depressive response.

I think she would benefit from being eval'd. 

 

Yeah I didn’t mean to imply that she *is* happy. I’m saying this is how she is, it is her status quo. She doesn’t put energy into making this life better. 
 

I can’t make her get help for her issues. I can’t even get her to care about her teeth or her diet. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Tiberia]

Sorry you're going through this. There are no easy answers, especially if they are unable/unwilling to make useful decisions.

With my dad, it helped to open conversations with the phrase "when the time comes..."

"When the time comes, where would you like to live?" When the time comes, what do you want to do with all your stuff?"

 By saying that phrase, it never boxed him into an immediate decision, but it let me know what he was thinking. If your parents refuse to give any helpful answers, you can still have this conversation with your siblings, so you're all on the same page and have an action plan. It's hard to know exactly what will trigger the plan, but it will probably be a fall or another crises that requires hard decisions. It sounds like the crisis is on its way and may get here before they anticipate. Denial is a coping mechanism to delay acknowledging reality. 

When the time came, dad moved to my city, and I paid a company to clear out his house so we could sell it. It was all his decision. If he had not moved at that time, he would have died alone in his house.

 

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

 Really what they could use is those junk removal people because some of the things they *would* get rid of but they don’t have a way to. (Like, for ex., an old broken freezer.) Apparently my sister has floated this idea, though, and that is yet another thing they think it’s crazy to pay someone to do. 

Tell them you find someone who will remove the freezer for scrap value and the broken furniture for, uh, scrap wood. Tell that someone not to mention you are paying them. 

This does involve the time of setting it up, but could be worth it if they are a few big items to be removed. 

[katilac]

Also, this is a slow-and-steady method, but it can work for grown kids to take things they don't actually want. It used to drive me crazy that all the old people in my life were always trying to give me stuff I didn't want, lol, but I finally decided to roll with it as a pretty easy way to make them happy. I've taken Christmas decorations, weird appliances, blankets, all kinds of things. Sometimes food 😄

Most of it I keep to the side for a while, and then donate or dump as appropriate. I hardly ever have any of them ask about something once they give it to me (I think they're just glad to get rid of it without the stress of trashing or donating it), but I have some replies ready if they do. 

Why don't I see Grandma's ceramic Christmas tree? I don't have room to put everything out each year. 

Have you used the XYZ? Yes, I've put it to good use (this one covers a lot of territory, lol) 

But seriously, they very rarely ask. I have been the way station for an incredible number of donations over the years, lol. 

[Lecka]

About 20 years my step-dad made a small kids clubhouse from a kit.  It was very loved by my kids and my nieces.

However they have all outgrown it, and it got really beat up in a hail storm with tennis-ball sized hail.

My Mom said it could be sold.  Well — it would have to be disassembled, and there has been detioration.

I went behind my mom’s back with my step-dad, and while they were away on a short trip, my husband and I broke up the clubhouse and hauled it to the dump in 2 truck loads.

We found it to be in worse shape than anticipated at this point — there is no way it could have been taken apart and reassembled.  Wood was rotting in most of it that we hadn’t know was rotting.

At the same time my husband sold an old, small non-working generator on Facebook Marketplace, that — someone came and was able to make it run before they took it, and they paid for it.

So then my mom was happy!

My step-dad is a reasonable person, but he will never go against my mom (which is good 99% of the time).  
 

So my mom doesn’t even have any idea how much work went into disassembling and hauling away this clubhouse, because she would be mad we took it to the dump and would insist it was still useful and someone would have paid money for it.

My step-dad did tell us thank you.  

I just did not want it continuing to deteriorate and thought we would be dealing with it at some point anyway, plus my kids did get enjoyment from it so it seems fair for us to help when it’s time to clean it up.  
 

But my goodness!

 

I have 100% sympathy for people whose parents won’t allow junk to be hauled off!

 

My mom’s parents did some food hoarding, thought otherwise everything was in wonderful condition.  I know my mom hated the food hoarding, or at least she was disappointed by it, so I am surprised she is getting stubborn about some things that are not good anymore and thinks they should be useful or worth money.  
 

I do not understand it!

 

My mom is great otherwise.  But this is just — not great.  

Edit:  there really hasn’t been anything too bad…. I did clean out two closets full of junk last year and did some cleaning in a part of her house that she doesn’t usually use that had gotten to be full of cobwebs and things.  
 

I can remember my grandparents’ food storage getting bad, though, so I don’t like to see anything in that direction.  They had a cellar full of food and many cabinets in the kitchen, plus a deep freeze and a regular refrigerator.  It was pretty bad, complete with rotting food they said was still good and buying anything on sale at the grocery store.  

Edit:  and yes they had been food insecure during the Great Depression.  

Edited November 29, 2021 by Lecka

[marbel]

16 minutes ago, katilac said:

Also, this is a slow-and-steady method, but it can work for grown kids to take things they don't actually want.

Yes, this is a very good way to do it as long as the recipient does not want to keep the stuff after all. I know that is not a danger in this situation.

My inlaws had pawned off some stuff on us and then my husband felt obligated to keep it forever. I remember in particular one pair of unbelievably ugly lamps. I said I was never using them. He agreed, but he felt obligated to keep them anyway. Somehow we ended up shipping them back to his parents who probably have them to this day, which means he will inherit them someday. 🤦‍♀️  I swear if they somehow make their way back to my house, there will be some mysterious breakage.

Anyway, that's a diversion and not meant to make light of the situation. It's a tough one. But I am quite confident our OP is not going to hang on to ugly lamps or anything else her parents may send her way. 

[DreamerGirl]

-----

Edited November 29, 2021 by DreamerGirl

[Miss Tick]

20 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I am surprised she is getting stubborn about some things that are not good anymore and thinks they should be useful or worth money.  
 

I do not understand it!

I don't think it is rationally understandable. My grandmother was this way for a few years before dementia or Alzheimer's totally took her away. I think people with these types of strong feelings are acting rational on the outside, but no longer thinking rationally.

[LifeLovePassion]

I'll share my story. For my parents, things only changed when there was a health crisis, that led to one parent passing in '19. The other had to immediately go into temporary assisted living. Living with any of us kids would not have been feasible due to the amount of care needed/space available. We found a permanent assisted living to transition to within a couple of weeks. Prior to all of this, we had been asking on and off about them moving to assisted living. Parent #2 had a major diagnosis in '08 and could have really used better care starting in '17 following a major medical event. 

We hired an estate sale company (not hoarders, just lots of collections and antiques). In hindsight, we should have taken what we wanted and paid a company to just empty the rest out for donation and gotten the house on the market right away. The extra time it took, the market slowed way down and we only netted around $5k in spite of all the nice stuff they had. 

Assisted living really helped improve mood, just knowing they were being cared for, fed and showered. It was a great place for 15 months until the second parent passed in '20. 

It took another 13 months since parent #2 passed to get the rest of the affairs in order and the estates settled through probate. (2 years, 4 months since the first parent passed). It was a long process with unhelpful siblings. 

Others have offered great things to think about. It is especially important regarding financing and funding things with Medicaid coming into play and you not being on the hook later if you are generous now. 

Hugs to you Quill as it's so hard to be in that spot. 

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

Yeah I didn’t mean to imply that she *is* happy. I’m saying this is how she is, it is her status quo. She doesn’t put energy into making this life better. 
 

I can’t make her get help for her issues. I can’t even get her to care about her teeth or her diet. 🤷🏻‍♀️

will she go to a dr?  the dr can evaluate for her depression.  - at this age, nutritional deficiencies can cause depression type symptoms. There are a number of medical conditions that can cause depressive type symptoms.

2dd is a pharmacist - in school they were taught when dealing with recalcitrant/reluctant to take anti-depressants (because they're "not" depressed) . . they were taught to tell them it will help them sleep.

[LifeLovePassion]

Gardenmom's post reminded me of something I had to do multiple times. Call their Dr and tattle to the nurse. The staff is used to this and would do what they could to see them in person to evaluate. One time they called and got mom scheduled for a med check appointment and then they addressed other concerns during that visit unbenounced to my parents. It helps the Dr too because they get to a different story from outside sources. My parents masked a lot about their living situation. 

[KungFuPanda]

My mother could live with us now and until the end of her days and we'd be fine with that.  She's delightful.  We're set up to deal with accessibility and we have a stair lift and lift equipment.  What I couldn't do is bring a hoarder into my home.  My stepdad can't get rid of anything.  I could never live with him because he wouldn't stop just because he moved.  He'd fill any space he's in.  The reason he lives in a clean, livable home is that my mother is working so hard to keep the living space decent even though the basement, outbuildings, and closets are stuffed.  I guess there are degrees because it's not so bad that they'd get onto that show and there aren't "paths" in their home, but there sure are in that basement.  His personality wouldn't change because he was in a new space and I don't have it in me to clean up after an able-bodied adult.

[Laura Corin]

4 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

My mother could live with us now and until the end of her days and we'd be fine with that.  She's delightful.  We're set up to deal with accessibility and we have a stair lift and lift equipment.  What I couldn't do is bring a hoarder into my home.  My stepdad can't get rid of anything.  I could never live with him because he wouldn't stop just because he moved.  He'd fill any space he's in.  The reason he lives in a clean, livable home is that my mother is working so hard to keep the living space decent even though the basement, outbuildings, and closets are stuffed.  I guess there are degrees because it's not so bad that they'd get onto that show and there aren't "paths" in their home, but there sure are in that basement.  His personality wouldn't change because he was in a new space and I don't have it in me to clean up after an able-bodied adult.

You are right that hoarding often doesn't change with circumstances. My mother still has the instinct to hold onto things. She just can't gather much now she is in a care home. The staff look out for food hoarding and Mum collects all her paper napkins. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

will she go to a dr?  the dr can evaluate for her depression.  - at this age, nutritional deficiencies can cause depression type symptoms. There are a number of medical conditions that can cause depressive type symptoms.

2dd is a pharmacist - in school they were taught when dealing with recalcitrant/reluctant to take anti-depressants (because they're "not" depressed) . . they were taught to tell them it will help them sleep.

She sees many doctors regularly due to her illnesses. I would say it’s unlikely any of them would look for depression in her though because of her demeanor. She is extremely bubbly and cheerful. She does this thing where she wants to be the gold star patient…it’s hard to explain if you haven’t seen it before. But she appears excessively jovial and wants the doctors and nurses to like her. 
 

I don’t know…it just seems to me that if she suffers from depression, it is the least of her issues. She cannot drive, walk more than a few steps or chew much of anything. Even if she is clinically depressed, it seems moot to me. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

You are right that hoarding often doesn't change with circumstances. My mother still has the instinct to hold onto things. She just can't gather much now she is in a care home. The staff look out for food hoarding and Mum collects all her paper napkins. 

My boss’ parent did the napkin thing. He “thought it was money” and would stuff them into drawers. 

[Laura Corin]

20 minutes ago, Quill said:

My boss’ parent did the napkin thing. He “thought it was money” and would stuff them into drawers. 

My mum knows it's a napkin.  She just won't throw them away.

[teachermom2834]

13 hours ago, katilac said:

Also, this is a slow-and-steady method, but it can work for grown kids to take things they don't actually want. It used to drive me crazy that all the old people in my life were always trying to give me stuff I didn't want, lol, but I finally decided to roll with it as a pretty easy way to make them happy. I've taken Christmas decorations, weird appliances, blankets, all kinds of things. Sometimes food 😄

Most of it I keep to the side for a while, and then donate or dump as appropriate. I hardly ever have any of them ask about something once they give it to me (I think they're just glad to get rid of it without the stress of trashing or donating it), but I have some replies ready if they do. 

Why don't I see Grandma's ceramic Christmas tree? I don't have room to put everything out each year. 

Have you used the XYZ? Yes, I've put it to good use (this one covers a lot of territory, lol) 

But seriously, they very rarely ask. I have been the way station for an incredible number of donations over the years, lol. 

I’ve done this too. I had sweet older neighbors we were close to that downsized to move into a condo in a retirement community. They had been in the house over 30 years. We took so much stuff when they were trying to move. They just had to pass it on to someone. Couldn’t bear to just toss stuff. So they gave us lots of stuff and we’ll get rid of it. I love them and I was happy to help them along. 
 

Also nearly daily encouragement that they were doing the right thing not to burden their children with these things eventually. That helped them trash/donate a lot. But it took regular pep talks about the gift they were giving their children by letting go of stuff now. 

And these were not hoarders/mentally ill folks. These were just regular old people with a lifetime of things. My MIL (epic dangerous gross hoarder) is not at all responsive to this sort of thing. 

[Garga]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

She sees many doctors regularly due to her illnesses. I would say it’s unlikely any of them would look for depression in her though because of her demeanor. She is extremely bubbly and cheerful. She does this thing where she wants to be the gold star patient…it’s hard to explain if you haven’t seen it before. But she appears excessively jovial and wants the doctors and nurses to like her. 
 

I don’t know…it just seems to me that if she suffers from depression, it is the least of her issues. She cannot drive, walk more than a few steps or chew much of anything. Even if she is clinically depressed, it seems moot to me. 

I don’t have advice, but have a mother like yours in regards to wanting to be a model patient. My mother and father will withhold vital information that could help dx their conditions, because they don’t want to be seen as “whining or complaining.” They don’t understand that a doctor must be told all the aches and pains in order to dx the condition. They also don’t want to waste the doctor’s time, so if something doesn’t get discussed in the visit and they think the doctor is done with the visit, they’ll just remain silent instead of saying, “Hang on…before we’re done, I need to tell you about X.” They’ll just go home and suffer in silence and never go back and tell the doc.

My parents think that if they waste the doctor’s time by “whining” about their medical issues, they’ll be seen as troublemakers and dismissed.  But they end up being dismissed because the doctors genuinely don’t know what the issues are. They brush it off in a jokey way, “Oh, I’m not going to be one of those old people who go on and on about their medical issues! No one wants to listen to that!”

I found out after the fact that when my dad had tonsil cancer and couldn’t eat, that he was practically starving because my parents didn’t understand how to use the feeding port he had into his stomach and weren’t giving him enough food. They refused to research it on their own or ask the doctor about it.  The doctor couldn’t figure out why my dad was losing so much weight and was worried.  But my parents had turned down any help from the nurses about how to use the port and how to get food into him, because they didn’t want to be seen as bothering anyone.  And so…he was literally being starved.  My mom was feeding him, but about 1/4 of the amount she should have been. 

 

Quill, I worry about what will happen when they’re too old to care for themselves, and I live 2500 miles away as the only child. I’m watching this thread and making notes for the future…

[fairfarmhand]

One thing that happens with the "stuff" (not the hoarding level mental illness stuff, just average clutter of living 7 plus decades on the planet) Is that things are not addressed when the elder is younger, say in their late 50s, early 60s. Then, as one ages, the ability to sort and organize and make a decision is slowly compromised through the years. Add to that room after room, closet after closet of stuff. IT can be totally overwhelming to try to sort out and discard. Many elders simply ignore it because the project becomes so huge.

I know my MIL had a house totally packed with stuff, every closet, every room. It wasn't hoarder level, and it looked tidy, but when you started openeing closets and dressers, you found so much stuff in there. It was overwhelming for me, a person in my 40s with my mental faculties intact. She was mentally struggling so there was no way she could manage to sort it all. Just deciding where to go to dinner was too much for her at times.

I've decided that when my kids move out, I'm planning on empty closets. Going ahead and giving things to my kids if they want it, emptying dressers and just having that space sitting there. We have a good sized house and we'll stay here till I die (hopefully, our health allowing) but that doesn't mean that my kids will have to sort and organize and discard 2200 square feet of my crap when I'm gone. Hopefully, by the time I am in my mid 60s, I'll have two extra bedrooms with just furniture and bedding in them. 

I'll have sorted the photos and memorabilia into labeled organized totes so the kids will know where the important stuff is. 

Eventually, when my children have their own forever homes, I hope to pass many of the special keepsakes to them BEFORE I die. That way they will know who gets what, I can see them enjoying them, and much of that kind of stuff will be settled.

This is MY plan.

My dh...we;'ll that's something else entirely.

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

She sees many doctors regularly due to her illnesses. I would say it’s unlikely any of them would look for depression in her though because of her demeanor. She is extremely bubbly and cheerful. She does this thing where she wants to be the gold star patient…it’s hard to explain if you haven’t seen it before. But she appears excessively jovial and wants the doctors and nurses to like her. 
 

I don’t know…it just seems to me that if she suffers from depression, it is the least of her issues. She cannot drive, walk more than a few steps or chew much of anything. Even if she is clinically depressed, it seems moot to me. 

Is she the hoarder?

[fairfarmhand]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

She sees many doctors regularly due to her illnesses. I would say it’s unlikely any of them would look for depression in her though because of her demeanor. She is extremely bubbly and cheerful. She does this thing where she wants to be the gold star patient…it’s hard to explain if you haven’t seen it before. But she appears excessively jovial and wants the doctors and nurses to like her. 
 

I don’t know…it just seems to me that if she suffers from depression, it is the least of her issues. She cannot drive, walk more than a few steps or chew much of anything. Even if she is clinically depressed, it seems moot to me. 

 

well...sort of.

But getting the depression cleared up may make her more inclined to follow through on things that are affecting her health.

Depression robs you of the ability to be proactive. Depression steals the energy that it takes to do basic things like make phone calls and appointments to help yourself feel better. Depression says "I am not worthy of this level of care." so there's no motivation to pursue treatment that can make you comfortable and healthier

[Guest]

7 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I've decided that when my kids move out, I'm planning on empty closets. Going ahead and giving things to my kids if they want it, emptying dressers and just having that space sitting there. We have a good sized house and we'll stay here till I die (hopefully, our health allowing) but that doesn't mean that my kids will have to sort and organize and discard 2200 square feet of my crap when I'm gone. Hopefully, by the time I am in my mid 60s, I'll have two extra bedrooms with just furniture and bedding in them. 

Yup to this. I am doing that with my two big kids *right now*. They are 24 and 22 and the 22yo hasn’t technically moved out (last year at uni), but his plans post-college (at least at present) don’t include moving back home. And so all the things - jeans, shoes, cleats, McDonalds uniforms, stuffed animals, monogrammed suitcase, backpacks, etc. - are going out to Goodwill *this week*. I plan to fill all the poster-pin holes in the wall, replace the window blinds and curtains, repaint and have the carpet cleaned and then - boom! - that kid’s room is addressed when we sell this house. As soon as I finish his, I’m doing dd’s. And then I must tackle the homeschool room (bonus room).  I definitely agree with the “Swedish Death Cleaning” philosophy. I am fifty years old and I can manage this stuff now, so I would rather do it now than go into my sixties and seventies with the whole household of stuff from raising three kids still stuffed in here. Nope!

[Guest]

7 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

 

well...sort of.

But getting the depression cleared up may make her more inclined to follow through on things that are affecting her health.

Depression robs you of the ability to be proactive. Depression steals the energy that it takes to do basic things like make phone calls and appointments to help yourself feel better. Depression says "I am not worthy of this level of care." so there's no motivation to pursue treatment that can make you comfortable and healthier

She’s always been like that though. Like, my whole life. She has always seen it as God will fix the problems and if not, then He must have a reason for her to go through the problem. 
 

Like, with her teeth, she *always* would say she has “weak teeth”, that they are hereditarily bad. And while, I agree there is such a thing and some people have better teeth than others, I also never saw her take proper care of her teeth. She would “speed brush” her teeth without toothpaste minutes before we walked out the door somewhere. I always figured she did the “real” brushing at other times and that was just a spot-clean thing before going out, but upon reflection, I don’t think that’s true. She had many dental crowns and fillings even while I was young and she started losing teeth about twenty years ago and would not pursue treatment/implants. 
 

I do agree that poor self care goes with depression and I have been there and know first hand. But there is really nothing new about my mom’s weirdness in taking care of medical issues. One reason I went with her to all her cancer appointments is because I knew she would not ask questions or advocate for herself. I wanted to hear right from the doctor’s mouths what was going to happen. When her doctor was explaining how the surgery would go, my dad almost fainted and had to leave the room. He was never in any other appointments; I was. (And the ironic thing about that is that I am prone to fainting that way too but I never did because *somebody* had to be the strong one.)
 

It’s almost identical to what @Gargasaid about her parents and she and I have talked before about how our parents are so similar like that. They want to be model patients and they are more interested in “brightening the day” of the doctors and nurses than being crystal clear about what help they need. It’s freakin maddening tbh.  

[katilac]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

 the 22yo hasn’t technically moved out (last year at uni), but his plans post-college (at least at present) don’t include moving back home.  

My youngest didn't plan to live at home after graduation until she saw her older sister's savings account, lol.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, katilac said:

My youngest didn't plan to live at home after graduation until she saw her older sister's savings account, lol.

Haha well I know anything can happen, and a lot of his plans have to do with his gf. Of course, he is always welcome back home for any reason; he just wouldnt have his stuffed animals or his McDonalds uniform. 

[SKL]

I also think a lot about what I should do to make my kids' burdens lighter when I'm "old."  That said, they are bigger hoarders than I've ever been, LOL.  I have all my personal stuff, work stuff, and a lot of the kids' important stuff in one room - my bedroom - which is the smallest bedroom in our house.  So my crap should be the least of their worries, LOL.  But I still work on it.

And for that matter, it's likely that a lot of the stuff in my parents' house is actually their kids' old crap that they left there decades ago.

And when will I get time to go address that??  I really need to do more than just talk about it.

[fairfarmhand]

My dad and stepmom cleared an entire shed of thier belongings that had been moved three times and never unpacked. 

I thanked them for that.