Kyle Rittenhouse and Julius Jones

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The ‘training’ my peers received was sus at best, mostly hand me down wisdom and not at all standardized or LEO like. One of my sons kindergarten classmates came to show and tell with his face smeared with dried blood, ready to proudly display pics of his first kill. I only learned about it afterward when the teacher wrote a note to the whole parent group apologizing. My son refused to talk about it.

I never heard anything like that.  My XH was taught very serious gun safety by his dad and two older brothers.  

But again, I hate guns and I hate the hunting culture.  

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I never heard anything like that.  My XH was taught very serious gun safety by his dad and two older brothers.  

But again, I hate guns and I hate the hunting culture.  

Yeah, that happened in LR circa 2011/12? At ECS of all places. Just cray.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Carrie12345]

The whole “kids used to bring hunting rifles to school in their trucks”, yeah. They did.  But this is today.

In the 90s, I wrote a poem AS AN ASSIGNMENT, about blowing up the school and got an A. Just because something was acceptable 30 years ago…

[AbcdeDooDah]

19 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

The whole “kids used to bring hunting rifles to school in their trucks”, yeah. They did.  But this is today.

In the 90s, I wrote a poem AS AN ASSIGNMENT, about blowing up the school and got an A. Just because something was acceptable 30 years ago…

Oh gosh! I wrote a satire article in English class about a school bomber. I chose a middle eastern classmate as the bomber because he was the least likely person who would do it. Oy. 🤦‍♀️

Edited November 22, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[Murphy101]

KR story is just one big mess of dumb and dumber colliding cluster flubs from beginning to end.  I don’t know how that makes me feel about what should happen to KR. 

JJ. I am actually for the death penalty in extreme and no-doubt cases.  I do not believe life in prison removes them from society. It just puts them in prison society. And I don’t know that’s less cruel. But again. There’s no take backs for death. It should be extreme and vicious murder cases where there is no doubt. There’s a lot of doubt in this one. The governor is a horrible governor so no surprise on how he does anything to me. 

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

The whole “kids used to bring hunting rifles to school in their trucks”, yeah. They did.  But this is today.

In the 90s, I wrote a poem AS AN ASSIGNMENT, about blowing up the school and got an A. Just because something was acceptable 30 years ago…

To be clear I wasn't saying it should be acceptable today.  I hate guns.  I was just saying it was done back then and no one was killing each other.  Something changed is my point.  Teens in rural AR WERE responsible with guns back in the 80s.  

The entire world has gone mad---for real.

[Lady Florida.]

On 11/20/2021 at 4:18 PM, Wheres Toto said:

Open carry still isn't a thing in NJ.   Neither is concealed carry.  

He moved to Florida after he retired. In fact that's why my family moved here - my mother followed him here to marry him. Florida isn't really open carry either though concealed carry is allowed. He'd still be hearing about it on the news in other states and I know it would have horrified him.

[Fritz]

The Students for Socialism on the campus of Arizona State University protested his attendence at ASU because he's a "white supremacist". Professors have advised him to withdraw from his nondegree seeking online classes.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/arizona-state-university-students-protest-killer-kyle-rittenhouse

[lauraw4321]

On 11/22/2021 at 10:08 AM, Scarlett said:

I never heard anything like that.  My XH was taught very serious gun safety by his dad and two older brothers.  

But again, I hate guns and I hate the hunting culture.  

Blood smeared on your face is very common after a first kill in Alabama and Georgia.

[historically accurate]

1 hour ago, Fritz said:

The Students for Socialism on the campus of Arizona State University protested his attendence at ASU because he's a "white supremacist". Professors have advised him to withdraw from his nondegree seeking online classes.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/arizona-state-university-students-protest-killer-kyle-rittenhouse

And counter-protestors defended him. He was advised to drop (reasons unknown), but his spokesperson says he is going to continue. 

Students are free to say what they want in this case.

 

[Melissa Louise]

They are free to say what they want, but it would be good to cleave to principle. I'm pretty sure that we're not supposed to treat acquitted persons as if they are criminals. Whether or not you like them and approve/disapprove of their actions. Besides anything else, if you want a person to rehabilitate themselves, you don't block their efforts to get an education.

[Syllieann]

25 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

They are free to say what they want, but it would be good to cleave to principle. I'm pretty sure that we're not supposed to treat acquitted persons as if they are criminals. Whether or not you like them and approve/disapprove of their actions. Besides anything else, if you want a person to rehabilitate themselves, you don't block their efforts to get an education.

Yes, and in this case, he might be able to sue the crap out of them for calling him a murdered since he has been acquitted.  I'm not sure if the organization is publicly funded (probably If it's sponsored by ASU), but if so, it does seem inappropriate to issue a statement from such an organization rather than have it come from a student's personal, individual opinon.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Syllieann

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

Yes, and in this case, he might be able to sue the crap out of them for calling him a murdered since he has been acquitted.  I'm not sure if the organization is publicly funded (probably If it's sponsored by ASU), but if so, it does seem inappropriate to issue a statement from such an organization rather than have it come from a student's personal, individual opinon.

Yeah, no. He has no grounds to sue people protesting. He is, like it or not, a public person and has made himself even more so with various interviews so the burden is much higher. Whether he's a CONVICTED murderer is not in dispute. Whether he's a murderer in the ordinary sense of the word is a matter of opinion.

[Katy]

8 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

Yes, and in this case, he might be able to sue the crap out of them for calling him a murdered since he has been acquitted.  I'm not sure if the organization is publicly funded (probably If it's sponsored by ASU), but if so, it does seem inappropriate to issue a statement from such an organization rather than have it come from a student's personal, individual opinon.

He admitted murder, he just argued it was justified, and the jury agreed with him. And he’d have no grounds for a lawsuit because he posed for pictures with white supremacists. I think everyone in a socialist group are morons who need history lessons, but it’s not illegal to be dumb or to voice upset at what they consider injustice. 

[Syllieann]

28 minutes ago, Katy said:

He admitted murder, he just argued it was justified, and the jury agreed with him. And he’d have no grounds for a lawsuit because he posed for pictures with white supremacists. I think everyone in a socialist group are morons who need history lessons, but it’s not illegal to be dumb or to voice upset at what they consider injustice. 

I guess that is a question of how you define murder.  To me and my dictionary, it is the unlawful killing of another person.  It's not in dispute that he killed them, but because it has been ruled as justified, it is definitively not murder, which means their public assertions that he is a murderer are  false.

[Katy]

9 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

I guess that is a question of how you define murder.  To me and my dictionary, it is the unlawful killing of another person.  It's not in dispute that he killed them, but because it has been ruled as justified, it is definitively not murder, which means their public assertions that he is a murderer are  false.

You’re right.  He’s not guilty of murder.  He admits he’s guilty of homicide. 

[Faith-manor]

I can only imagine how disconcerting it must be for many at the college to be faced with attending school with him.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Faith-manor

[Sneezyone]

24 minutes ago, Katy said:

You’re right.  He’s not guilty of murder.  He admits he’s guilty of homicide. 

It’s a distinction without a difference in terms of public opinion and libel WRT a public person.

[Faith-manor]

14 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It’s a distinction without a difference in terms of public opinion and libel WRT a public person.

And even with civil cases. Sometimes a person can be found not guilty of murder in criminal court and still go down for wrongful death in a civil court because the rules and precedents are different. So there is that too, and it influences how the public feels about the person. I would not expect a bunch of 17 and 18 year old college freshmen to be particularly well versed in all of these distinctions.

[Pam in CT]

re language

1 hour ago, Syllieann said:

I guess that is a question of how you define murder.  To me and my dictionary, it is the unlawful killing of another person.  It's not in dispute that he killed them, but because it has been ruled as justified, it is definitively not murder, which means their public assertions that he is a murderer are  false.

FWIW I largely agree with your definition. Yet in ordinary discourse the word "murder" is commonly used to describe (just one example) abortion.

 

No one deserves to be associated for life with their worst mistake, particularly a mistake made at age 17.  And he already has some heavy baggage he'll carry for the rest of his life.

Rittenhouse faces a life juncture at this point. He can take the reprieve the jury has given him to figure out the next chapter of his still-very-young life, or he can seize the opportunity that Tucker and MJT and etc are holding out to him, to become a poster boy for vigilante justice and an engine for fundraising for folks who have explicitly and jubilantly associated themselves with white supremacy.

I wish for his sake he'd opt for Door One.  But in the days since the verdict he has, thus far, appeared to be headed toward Door Two.

And people will say so.  First Amendment and all that.

 

[AnotherNewName]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

You’re right.  He’s not guilty of murder.  He admits he’s guilty of homicide. 

He committed a justifiable homicide. He has not been found guilty of criminal homicide. 

[AnotherNewName]

2 hours ago, Syllieann said:

Yes, and in this case, he might be able to sue the crap out of them for calling him a murdered since he has been acquitted.  I'm not sure if the organization is publicly funded (probably If it's sponsored by ASU), but if so, it does seem inappropriate to issue a statement from such an organization rather than have it come from a student's personal, individual opinon.

He is a limited purpose public figure so the standard for any defamation claim is well above someone (even an organization) holding the opinion that he is a murderer.

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

I can only imagine how disconcerting it must be for many at the college to be faced with attending school with him.

Lots of things on campus are disconcerting. Frankly, having seen the video which is puported to be  of him, hitting a young woman, if true, I wouldn't want him near me as a student and definitely not as a nurse.

Still, lots of men on campus who abuse, they just get away with it. Disconcerting, indeed. 

Acquitted people must be allowed to resume life. You cannot impose a sentence of exclusion from education, and you should not try to pressure your institution to do so. 

You can hate it, you can cut him dead in your social life, you can request you don't work with him on group projects...but where is the utility  (forget ethics) in pushing someone like R away from education? 

Principles about the rights of the acquitted apply to all, even people you despise. Even someone who, legally speaking, took two lives in self defence. Otherwise it's not a principle, it's just a bias towards people you feel empathy for.

Nobody has to.like it. 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Melissa Louise
Edited to reflect the video is unproven.

[Catwoman]

11 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Lots of things on campus are disconcerting. Frankly, having seen the video of him hitting a young woman, I wouldn't want him near me as a student and definitely not as a nurse.

Still, lots of men on campus who abuse, they just get away with it. Disconcerting, indeed. 

Acquitted people must be allowed to resume life. You cannot impose a sentence of exclusion from education, and you should not try to pressure your institution to do so. 

You can hate it, you can cut him dead in your social life, you can request you don't work with him on group projects...but where is the utility  (forget ethics) in pushing someone like R away from education? 

Principles about the rights of the acquitted apply to all, even people you despise. Even someone who, legally speaking, took two lives in self defence. Otherwise it's not a principle, it's just a bias towards people you feel empathy for.

Nobody has to.like it. 

 

Wait. There’s a video of Kyle Rittenhouse hitting a woman? 🤯 This is the first I have heard of that!

Does anyone have a link?

[historically accurate]

12 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Wait. There’s a video of Kyle Rittenhouse hitting a woman? 🤯 This is the first I have heard of that!

Does anyone have a link?

Snopes says it's unproven: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kyle-rittenhouse-punch-woman-video/

I know nothing of this source, but it has the video: https://www.the-sun.com/news/1397617/kenosha-suspect-kyle-rittenhouse-allegedly-punching-girl-fight/

Edited December 3, 2021 by historically accurate

[Melissa Louise]

15 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Wait. There’s a video of Kyle Rittenhouse hitting a woman? 🤯 This is the first I have heard of that!

Does anyone have a link?

 

9 minutes ago, historically accurate said:

Snopes says it's unproven: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kyle-rittenhouse-punch-woman-video/

Thanks, I didn't know this was unproven. I'll go back and edit my post to reflect that.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Melissa Louise

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Syllieann said:

I guess that is a question of how you define murder.  To me and my dictionary, it is the unlawful killing of another person.  It's not in dispute that he killed them, but because it has been ruled as justified, it is definitively not murder, which means their public assertions that he is a murderer are  false.

That's as far as the eyes of the law go. Someone being acquitted doesn't mean other people can't still think they are guilty. Guilty people get acquitted for various reasons all the time. People pretty commonly consider OJ Simpson a murderer, for example. It may qualify as libel or slander in certain contexts, but I don't think people saying they think Rittenhouse committed murder is either of those things.

As far as barring him from a university, I think that would depend on the school. If it's open to everyone, with no requirements, it seems he should be allowed. Otherwise, it seems he could be denied entrance just like any one of our kids might be denied entrance from any school that doesn't choose to have them as a student.

[Faith-manor]

27 minutes ago, KSera said:

That's as far as the eyes of the law go. Someone being acquitted doesn't mean other people can't still think they are guilty. Guilty people get acquitted for various reasons all the time. People pretty commonly consider OJ Simpson a murderer, for example. It may qualify as libel or slander in certain contexts, but I don't think people saying they think Rittenhouse committed murder is either of those things.

As far as barring him from a university, I think that would depend on the school. If it's open to everyone, with no requirements, it seems he should be allowed. Otherwise, it seems he could be denied entrance just like any one of our kids might be denied entrance from any school that doesn't choose to have them as a student.

Yes, he would be wise not to use his experience as his award winning essay for the big scholarship!

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Faith-manor

[KSera]

1 minute ago, Faith-manor said:

Yes, he wouod.be wise not to use his experience as his award winning essay for the big scholarship!

 

Oh, I expect there are a few universities out there for whom that essay would land him a big scholarship. There will be a place for him. 

[TravelingChris]

On 12/2/2021 at 3:38 PM, Katy said:

He admitted murder, he just argued it was justified, and the jury agreed with him. And he’d have no grounds for a lawsuit because he posed for pictures with white supremacists. I think everyone in a socialist group are morons who need history lessons, but it’s not illegal to be dumb or to voice upset at what they consider injustice. 

Absolutely incorrect.  He admitted homicide, which is one of three explanations for a death. Murder is a legal term for an illegal, intentional killing.  He admitted committing a homicide, and said it was self-defense and the jury agreed. .

That is different than the cases where people have said I didn't do it, Colombian hit men did it.   Or he was dead already  from natural causes so I decided to hacksaw him into pieces and throw him in the Gulf of Mexico (Robert Durst who was aquited in Texas but convicted in CA for anothet murder and NY is now charging him w the of his first wife way long ago like 70's or 80's).

 

 

[Katy]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

Absolutely incorrect.  He admitted homicide, which is one of three explanations for a death. Murder is a legal term for an illegal, intentional killing.  He admitted committing a homicide, and said it was self-defense and the jury agreed. .

That is different than the cases where people have said I didn't do it, Colombian hit men did it.   Or he was dead already  from natural causes so I decided to hacksaw him into pieces and throw him in the Gulf of Mexico (Robert Durst who was aquited in Texas but convicted in CA for anothet murder and NY is now charging him w the of his first wife way long ago like 70's or 80's).

 

 

Yeah, that was settled up thread