Taylor Swift’s All Too Well

[Katy]

Have we talked about this?  

Taylor is re-recording all of her own music so she can own the rights. While redoing Red she made a short of All Too Well. And sang a 10 minute version on SNL.   

The song is about her relationship with Jake Gyllenhaal.  Or the first version was.  The second, 10 minute version is done with the clarity of an adult looking back on a relationship and realizing you were being exploited.  And apparently she’s tired of him continuing to date kids too young to drink, because she calls him out on it. And suddenly listening to the new version her pain has been transformed from another whiney breakup song to something more powerful. Art. 

Now Dionne Warwick has joined in and is demanding Jake return Taylor’s scarf. She offered to pay for postage. Maggie has denied knowing about the scarf, but there are pictures of him wearing it. 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/16/entertainment/dionne-warwick-jake-taylor-scarf/index.html

[easypeasy]

I am loving Taylor's re-recordings. I love the reason she's doing them and I love the finished products. Love Dionne Warwick, lol!

All Too Well (10 min version) is glorious. The video for I Bet You Think About Me is perfect.

Happy Taylor fans in this household (well, my adult daughters, who don't actually live here anymore, but still talk to me about Taylor Swift songs, lol!)

 

[Terabith]

Wow!  I'm actually not all that familiar with Taylor Swift beyond casual hearing of her songs on the radio, but this is GLORIOUS!

[sassenach]

Ooh, interesting topic. This has been much discussed with my 17yo. We're both huge TS fans, but she tends to go the Taylor can do no wrong route, whereas I sometimes see that millennial habit of blaming everyone else but herself. The All too Well short film was one of those. DD thought it looked like grooming and I think it looks like immaturity all around. I can see how a 20 year old could get wound up over a perceived slight at a dinner party (dropping her hand) while the 29 year old is like "what the heck are you talking about?" And yes, he does seem like one of those stunted guys who always dates much younger women but also, I don't see 9 years as a crazy age gap, especially when both parties are still in their 20's. The scarf thing I would bet money that he doesn't even know what she's talking about. So here she is a decade later saying that he kept her scarf so he could smell her and he probably doesn't even know what scarf she's talking about. The end of the short film was a little eye-rolly for me.

All that said, I love the extended version. It's a true representation of a relationship going wrong and that over the top way that young adults fall in love. 

[sassenach]

Other fun fact, I Bet You Think About Me was co-written by my all time favorite singer-songwriter, Lori McKenna. I've loved her forever. My girls texted me when the bonus tracks came out and were excited to see my favorite connected to their favorite. So was I!

[easypeasy]

5 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Ooh, interesting topic. This has been much discussed with my 17yo. We're both huge TS fans, but she tends to go the Taylor can do no wrong route, whereas I sometimes see that millennial habit of blaming everyone else but herself. The All too Well short film was one of those. DD thought it looked like grooming and I think it looks like immaturity all around. I can see how a 20 year old could get wound up over a perceived slight at a dinner party (dropping her hand) while the 29 year old is like "what the heck are you talking about?" And yes, he does seem like one of those stunted guys who always dates much younger women but also, I don't see 9 years as a crazy age gap, especially when both parties are still in their 20's. The scarf thing I would bet money that he doesn't even know what she's talking about. So here she is a decade later saying that he kept her scarf so he could smell her and he probably doesn't even know what scarf she's talking about. The end of the short film was a little eye-rolly for me.

All that said, I love the extended version. It's a true representation of a relationship going wrong and that over the top way that young adults fall in love. 

I feel the same way about the film. Wasn't really a fan. Sadie's character was kind of all over the place emotionally (common enough for a 20 year old in love for the first real time) and Dylan O'Brien's character seemed a typical self-absorbed, successful hipster. lol She's freaking out and he's like "what the heck is going on?"

The scarf thing feels a bit to me like what she'd like to think is happening when the guy isn't actually thinking all that much about her. tbh. lol Jake probably wore the scarf because he found it on the edge of his bedpost one day and realized it was cold outside. lol (and he has regretted that decision ever since, I am sure!! hahaha!)

But the song? It's a masterpiece. So much can apply to so many life situations so many of us have had - or will have, for the younger generation.

Edited November 16, 2021 by easypeasy

[Terabith]

Today's piece of life advice to my children:  Don't date song writers.  Or if you do, don't expect them to be quiet about your relationship.  

Yesterday's advice was:  Don't do crime, but if you DO do crime, don't tell people about it.  

[sassenach]

5 minutes ago, easypeasy said:

I feel the same way about the film. Wasn't really a fan. Sadie's character was kind of all over the place emotionally (common enough for a 20 year old in love for the first real time) and Dylan O'Brien's character seemed a typical self-absorbed, successful hipster. lol She's freaking out and he's like "what the heck is going on?"

The scarf thing feels a bit to me like what she'd like to think is happening when the guy isn't actually thinking all that much about her. tbh. lol Jake probably wore the scarf because he found it on the edge of his bedpost one day and realized it was cold outside. lol (and he has regretted that decision ever since, I am sure!! hahaha!)

But the song? It's a masterpiece. So much can apply to so many life situations so many of us have had - or will have, for the younger generation.

Well said! Yes to all of this.

[Scarlett]

14 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Ooh, interesting topic. This has been much discussed with my 17yo. We're both huge TS fans, but she tends to go the Taylor can do no wrong route, whereas I sometimes see that millennial habit of blaming everyone else but herself. The All too Well short film was one of those. DD thought it looked like grooming and I think it looks like immaturity all around. I can see how a 20 year old could get wound up over a perceived slight at a dinner party (dropping her hand) while the 29 year old is like "what the heck are you talking about?" And yes, he does seem like one of those stunted guys who always dates much younger women but also, I don't see 9 years as a crazy age gap, especially when both parties are still in their 20's. The scarf thing I would bet money that he doesn't even know what she's talking about. So here she is a decade later saying that he kept her scarf so he could smell her and he probably doesn't even know what scarf she's talking about. The end of the short film was a little eye-rolly for me.

All that said, I love the extended version. It's a true representation of a relationship going wrong and that over the top way that young adults fall in love. 

Ha.  I have spent an embarrassing amount of time listening to the song and watching the short film and I agree with you 100%.  

I love TS though.  I am really a huge fan even when I do roll my eyes or think she is too dramatic.  I think she can put lyrics together masterfully and she has a beautiful voice with powerful emotion.

[Scarlett]

And because I don't follow her in such a way to know who she is dating I am always completely out of the loop on these songs.  Dear John is another beautiful song written I have learned about John Mayer.  

 

[MEmama]

Nothing about the video worked for me. I couldn’t actually watch it because of the annoying light effects, and the new lyrics and weirdly inserted anger don't fit the song at all. I’m not sure what she was trying to go for, but it’s a miss for me. 

[Melissa Louise]

22 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Today's piece of life advice to my children:  Don't date any writers.  

Just a quick edit 🙂

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Just a quick edit 🙂

I'm saving that piece of advice for another day!

[Catwoman]

I feel like I may be the only person on this forum who is not a fan of Taylor Swift. 🙂

[Annie G]

6 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I feel like I may be the only person on this forum who is not a fan of Taylor Swift. 🙂

I’m not.  For me it’s probably an age thing…I’m 60 so not exactly her target demographic. 
 

Can someone explain the re-recording thing? Did they buy the rights to the actual recordings but NOT the songs themselves? That sounds dumb on their part because clearly if she can just re-record the songs and continue to perform them then they don’t own The Music, just the masters?  How were they sold against her wishes?   The artist doesn’t own the recordings, the record company does? 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Annie G

[sassenach]

8 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I feel like I may be the only person on this forum who is not a fan of Taylor Swift. 🙂

I wasn't until 1989. I love that album. She's not for everyone.

[Scarlett]

18 minutes ago, Annie G said:

I’m not.  For me it’s probably an age thing…I’m 60 so not exactly her target demographic. 
 

Can someone explain the re-recording thing? Did they buy the rights to the actual recordings but NOT the songs themselves? That sounds dumb on their part because clearly if she can just re-record the songs and continue to perform them then they don’t own The Music, just the masters?  How were they sold against her wishes?   The artist doesn’t own the recordings, the record company does? 

Ha, well I am 56 but I love her.  She can be sappy and dramatic, but I do love her songs.  Well, not all.  But many.

[Selkie]

26 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I feel like I may be the only person on this forum who is not a fan of Taylor Swift. 🙂

Nope, you're not alone!😉

[Catwoman]

19 minutes ago, Annie G said:

I’m not.  For me it’s probably an age thing…I’m 60 so not exactly her target demographic. 

 

Just now, Scarlett said:

Ha, well I am 56 but I love her.  She can be sappy and dramatic, but I do love her songs.  Well, not all.  But many.

I’m 58, so apparently the cutoff is somewhere between 57 and 58. 😉 

 

[Katy]

18 minutes ago, Annie G said:

I’m not.  For me it’s probably an age thing…I’m 60 so not exactly her target demographic. 
 

Can someone explain the re-recording thing? Did they buy the rights to the actual recordings but NOT the songs themselves? That sounds dumb on their part because clearly if she can just re-record the songs and continue to perform them then they don’t own The Music, just the masters?  How were they sold against her wishes?   The artist doesn’t own the recordings, the record company does? 

She wrote and performed every song she’s ever written, so the record company owned the masters but cannot own the songs. 

Initially the company was owned by a friend.  I’m a bit fuzzy on details but I think he was forced to retire due to health issues, and sold the songs to Taylor’s enemy, Scooter something. I don’t remember why, though my DD would tell me if she wasn’t outside. Anyway that resulted in a bunch of bad press because he lied in an interview so she shared the emails. So he sold the masters again to some conglomerate.  And now Taylor’s on a mission to get artists to understand this and own their own copyrights. 
 

I’ve always like Taylor, since that first country album. I like that her parents moved across the country for her, that she worked for a few years as a songwriter before getting an album. I don’t know any 14 year old capable of that. She doesn’t have the greatest voice, but she’s got a great understanding of music and she’s a great story teller. I like her spirit and grit. I’m rooting for her the way I root for my kids friends. 

[Melissa Louise]

I like Tay Tay. 

She has a good recipe for chai cookies. They were delish. Also cats. Also good at what she does. Also has a sense of humor and is able to poke fun at herself. Also has some catchy tunes which are very singable at the grocery store. 

[lmrich]

I used to know all her songs since my girls were huge fans. My dd actually looked like her for a while and sang some of her songs at local restaurant. My dd's rendition of "Mean" was so good - love that song. 

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

I feel like I may be the only person on this forum who is not a fan of Taylor Swift. 🙂

I think she’s fine, but nothing special. Her lyrics are lacking and she’s overconfident in herself. But she’s a pop star so that’s to be expected, I guess. You’re definitely not alone.

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

I feel like I may be the only person on this forum who is not a fan of Taylor Swift. 🙂

Maybe not?

I can't say I'm not a fan. I mean I recognize her name and know she's some sort of singer. I am that culturally literate. 😉 But that's the extent of my knowledge. I have no idea what she looks like or what her music sounds like. I can't name a single song of hers and have absolutely no clue who this person is who (maybe) has her scarf or why he would have it.

I do not feel that my life is any worse for this lack of knowledge. 😉 

[Annie G]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

She wrote and performed every song she’s ever written, so the record company owned the masters but cannot own the songs. 

Initially the company was owned by a friend.  I’m a bit fuzzy on details but I think he was forced to retire due to health issues, and sold the songs to Taylor’s enemy, Scooter something. I don’t remember why, though my DD would tell me if she wasn’t outside. Anyway that resulted in a bunch of bad press because he lied in an interview so she shared the emails. So he sold the masters again to some conglomerate.  And now Taylor’s on a mission to get artists to understand this and own their own copyrights. 
 

I’ve always like Taylor, since that first country album. I like that her parents moved across the country for her, that she worked for a few years as a songwriter before getting an album. I don’t know any 14 year old capable of that. She doesn’t have the greatest voice, but she’s got a great understanding of music and she’s a great story teller. I like her spirit and grit. I’m rooting for her the way I root for my kids friends. 

Oh now I remember that Scooter Braun had an axe to grind with her and did it to make her mad. Sounds like she got the last laugh on that. 
 

 

[Spryte]

7 hours ago, Terabith said:

Today's piece of life advice to my children:  Don't date song writers.  Or if you do, don't expect them to be quiet about your relationship.  

 

This is truth. 

[easypeasy]

7 hours ago, Terabith said:

Today's piece of life advice to my children:  Don't date song writers.  Or if you do, don't expect them to be quiet about your relationship.  

Yesterday's advice was:  Don't do crime, but if you DO do crime, don't tell people about it.  

My son is currently dating a young, indie singer/songwriter. We have had a field day with him this week asking him what kind of material he's giving her for her future big hit. 🤣 She's written a couple sweet songs to him so far, which makes it even funnier (how quickly things can change!) lol

(Luckily, she's a couple years older than my kid, so I don't think he's going to ruin her entire life or anything. 😁)

[Carrie12345]

I haven’t watched the short film yet and haven’t listened closely to the lyrics of the extended song, but I’m on the internet, so I’ve seen reactions,lol. I’ve also been playing the album in the background for the streaming count!

I don’t have a history of being a big Taylor Swift fan, but there was Covid and Folklore and Evermore and I wound up pretty taken by her music.  I was already super proud of her as a human, and she deserves all the good she gets!

I’m also sick of all the criticism about writing about relationships and break ups.
How many albums out there DON’T lean heavily on relationships, or at least sex?

[TravelingChris]

13 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I feel like I may be the only person on this forum who is not a fan of Taylor Swift. 🙂

I am not 

[TravelingChris]

13 hours ago, Annie G said:

I’m not.  For me it’s probably an age thing…I’m 60 so not exactly her target demographic. 
 

Nobody in my family likes her music.  No matter what age we are.  They aren't dance songs, they don't have memorable melodies, and are just bleh!  But I know a cockatoo that really loves one of her songs.

[Scarlett]

Speaking of TS....There is a line in Enchanted that says 'Please don't be in love with someone else.'  I had not paid attention to the rest of the lyrics of the song and my life experience had that line  meaning she was being cheated on or feared she was and that was her internal plea.  

[Pam in CT]

re only since COVID a fan...

5 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I haven’t watched the short film yet and haven’t listened closely to the lyrics of the extended song, but I’m on the internet, so I’ve seen reactions,lol. I’ve also been playing the album in the background for the streaming count!

I don’t have a history of being a big Taylor Swift fan, but there was Covid and Folklore and Evermore and I wound up pretty taken by her music.  I was already super proud of her as a human, and she deserves all the good she gets!

I’m also sick of all the criticism about writing about relationships and break ups.
How many albums out there DON’T lean heavily on relationships, or at least sex?

Same. I never once thought of her, and certainly never played her music myself, until Evermore & Folklore.  But oh my, I do believe she used that lockdown time better than anyone else on the planet.

 

 

 

ETA: in the same vein: I came really, really late to the Dolly Parton party.  But now at the ripe age of 58 I appreciate her for both the songwriter and the overall goddess that she actually is.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Pam in CT

[Katy]

33 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Speaking of TS....There is a line in Enchanted that says 'Please don't be in love with someone else.'  I had not paid attention to the rest of the lyrics of the song and my life experience had that line  meaning she was being cheated on or feared she was and that was her internal plea.  

No, she had just met him and was enchanted but he hadn’t asked her out so she worried he was in love with someone else. 

The song was about a real guy, who was too intimidated to ask her out… when her fans deducted it was him he wrote a sappy dong about her too if I remember correctly.  By then she’d moved on.  Or maybe just realized she’d never be that into someone who lacked the guts to ask her out. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, Katy said:

No, she had just met him and was enchanted but he hadn’t asked her out so she worried he was in love with someone else. 

The song was about a real guy, who was too intimidated to ask her out… when her fans deducted it was him he wrote a sappy dong about her too if I remember correctly.  By then she’d moved on.  Or maybe just realized she’d never be that into someone who lacked the guts to ask her out. 

Yes when I read the lyrics it was clear it was about someone she just WANTED to be involved with.   I did not know who it was about though.  You always know the inside scoop on those things!  LOL

[Katy]

25 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes when I read the lyrics it was clear it was about someone she just WANTED to be involved with.   I did not know who it was about though.  You always know the inside scoop on those things!  LOL

It’s safe to say my girls are fans.

[livetoread]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

No, she had just met him and was enchanted but he hadn’t asked her out so she worried he was in love with someone else. 

The song was about a real guy, who was too intimidated to ask her out… when her fans deducted it was him he wrote a sappy dong about her too if I remember correctly.  By then she’d moved on.  Or maybe just realized she’d never be that into someone who lacked the guts to ask her out. 

And this independent, empowered woman couldn't just ask him out, but instead blames him for not doing it? Blah. 

I'm neutral on her. I sing along to some of her songs when I hear them, but don't go out of my way. She's done some good things in a tough industry, so good for her, but it's things like the above that bug me about her, too. Take some responsibility for your love life, woman!

[Scarlett]

14 minutes ago, livetoread said:

And this independent, empowered woman couldn't just ask him out, but instead blames him for not doing it? Blah. 

I'm neutral on her. I sing along to some of her songs when I hear them, but don't go out of my way. She's done some good things in a tough industry, so good for her, but it's things like the above that bug me about her, too. Take some responsibility for your love life, woman!

I mean, it is just a song drawn on her real life feelings....the feelings were probably fleeting and she wrote a song.  I don't think her life is defined by the thoughts and feelings she has about every man she ever encounters.

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I mean, it is just a song drawn on her real life feelings....the feelings were probably fleeting and she wrote a song.  I don't think her life is defined by the thoughts and feelings she has about every man she ever encounters.

Quoting myself to add....like the 'All Too Well' song.....wasn't that a 3 month relationship?

[livetoread]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I mean, it is just a song drawn on her real life feelings....the feelings were probably fleeting and she wrote a song.  I don't think her life is defined by the thoughts and feelings she has about every man she ever encounters.

True, lol.

[Scarlett]

My all time favorite TS song is Better Man.  And she never even recorded it.  She let Little Big Town do it....

Correction!  It is on this new album!  So excited!  Off to listen.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

So I just listened to her version of Better Man.  It is great.  I rarely like the second recording I hear of a song, but I love hers almost as much as LBT.

[Katy]

She’s said before that she writes a song every day. 

This isn’t particularly egalitarian of me, but IME it’s rarely a good idea to ask a man out, especially if you really like them. Either they’re not that into you, they’re intimidated so there would be a weird power imbalance that doesn’t make for a good partnership, or they’re so passive they tend towards being passive-aggressive instead of honest.  Either way it’s better to assume someone not following up on your flirting by asking you out isn’t a good match.  

I do have a friend who asked a boy to a dance in middle school and they stayed together. So I’m sure my experience isn’t universal. 

Anyway, now Taylor’s been with Joe Alwyn for more than 2 years. So she’s making better choices than she did at 20’s.

[Katy]

One of my favorites:

And another: 

 

[Soror]

I'm not a TS fan, although I have liked a few songs. I admire her as a business woman and give kudos to her for giving a voice to artists. Many people are immature in there 20s, she's fared better than manner celebrities growing up in the public eye.

[sassenach]

7 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

re only since COVID a fan...

Same. I never once thought of her, and certainly never played her music myself, until Evermore & Folklore.  But oh my, I do believe she used that lockdown time better than anyone else on the planet.

 

 

 

ETA: in the same vein: I came really, really late to the Dolly Parton party.  But now at the ripe age of 58 I appreciate her for both the songwriter and the overall goddess that she actually is.

Did you listen to the podcast Dolly Parton’s America? Soooo good. 

[sassenach]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Quoting myself to add....like the 'All Too Well' song.....wasn't that a 3 month relationship?

It was. It’s a very 20-year-old song. 

[Pam in CT]

3 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Did you listen to the podcast Dolly Parton’s America? Soooo good. 

YES omg soooooo good. 

 

Worth the Time, folks!

[Clarita]

I LOVE Better Man. Taylor Swift is such a good song writer. She's kind of a drama queen in her song writing, but it's what I'm feeling at those moments if I'm honest with myself. 

[Scarlett]

6 hours ago, Clarita said:

I LOVE Better Man. Taylor Swift is such a good song writer. She's kind of a drama queen in her song writing, but it's what I'm feeling at those moments if I'm honest with myself. 

Exactly.  She has the ability to capture emotions that people will not generally admit to.  
 

When I first heard that song I had never heard of Little Big Town……so later when they came out and said it was TS’s song…..I was like ‘ok, makes sense now.’

The line ‘the bravest thing I ever did was run’ is something that a lot of people can’t get if they have never had to extricate themselves from a toxic relationship.  

[Lady Florida.]

I was never a fan and I'm still not crazy about her music. I understand it and at one time might have felt the anger in some of the lyrics, but I think I'm so far removed from those days that songs like that no longer move me.

Although I don't care for her songs, I've grown to respect her as a person and an artist. I used to think she seemed entitled but after she sued her molester and fought to own her own works I began to see her differently. She's a strong woman who is not afraid to stand up for herself, even when she gets flack for it - usually flack because she's a woman standing up for herself. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Lady Florida.