Drop, switch, or persevere? Traditional Logic 2 ETA: video series to supplement? Or good text?

[cintinative]

For many reasons I am not able to study this alongside my son, and it's just not working out. He really needs help.

If we stay with it, we will need a tutor I think.

Otherwise, we could drop it in favor of something more friendly to self-learning (maybe?) or just call it for the year and forget about completing this part at all.

He has already completed Traditional Logic I.  

Is it worth it to hire a tutor for this? What says the Hive? TIA!

ETA:  Memoria Press does not have tutors available.

I am thinking of supplementing what he has already done with a video series or text and giving him a 0.25 credit and calling it done. He's been working since August so I don't want to just throw away the work he's done.  

Edited November 16, 2021 by cintinative

[chiguirre]

Are you using MP's videos?

Oh my! I just went to watch the sample of Martin Cothran's taped class. That is just painfully boring. That's a real shame because the Logic/Rhetoric classes were some of dd's favorites at MPOA. Her classes were much more lively and she had some engaging teachers.

Just checked, there are new teachers for TL II who seem to be doing all the TL I and II classes. I don't know if they're good or not, but it would be hard to be worse that Martin Cothran's videos. If you son wants to continue with Material Logic and Rhetoric, dd highly recommends Daniel Maycock.

[cintinative]

56 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

Are you using MP's videos?

Oh my! I just went to watch the sample of Martin Cothran's taped class. That is just painfully boring.

Yes, we are using the videos and my son would agree on the boring part.  😃  For him, the videos just repeat what is in the text. 

Apparently the self-paced is the same videos.  

We don't have the finances for another class, unfortunately. I think I'm just going to cobble together a 0.25 credit from what we have plus some other resources. I ordered another logic book which has some videos online. It's my fault for not keeping up with him on this. I just don't have the margin. 

[Farrar]

I'm personally not a huge fan of 0.25 credits on a transcript. I would try to add in some stuff to just turn it into a half credit. I mean, he's been working since August? Surely he's done a decent amount. It doesn't have to have a ton of output. He could just read something or watch a lecture series. What about broadening it to make it more of a critical thinking credit? 

Whatever you do, I wouldn't hire a tutor for a course that's optional and clearly just not working.

[cintinative]

49 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I'm personally not a huge fan of 0.25 credits on a transcript. I would try to add in some stuff to just turn it into a half credit. I mean, he's been working since August? Surely he's done a decent amount. It doesn't have to have a ton of output. He could just read something or watch a lecture series. What about broadening it to make it more of a critical thinking credit? 

Whatever you do, I wouldn't hire a tutor for a course that's optional and clearly just not working.

I can definitely do that.  Yes, he's been working since August but at a 0.5 credit/1 school year pace, so about 3 days a week for 30 minutes or so.  

Do you have any lecture series to recommend? 

He's already completed Traditional Logic I, Art of Argument, Thinking Toolbox and The Fallacy Detective. 

I have ordered A concise introduction to logic and I found a lecture series on it on youtube. I think we could use that, skipping the parts he has already covered. It gets into Boolean logic in addition to the Aristolean (sp?) logic (which is all MP's product covers).

Edited November 17, 2021 by cintinative

[Farrar]

I know there's a Great Courses on logic, but I think it's more about formal logic, which it sounds like he's done plenty of. I might look at having it be a course that includes topics like metacognition as well. Maybe watch some introduction to statistics stuff. I'd focus on doing more applying critical thinking skills - logic and beyond - to the world. I know the Critical Thinking Company has some stuff, including a course on critical thinking and crime scenes for high school that I haven't used but seemed sort of cool. 

Of course, that's just my personal bias... but I would think if you've had a student who has really done a full introduction to formal logic and is burned out on it and bored by it, that I'd finish by doing a hodgepodge of real world stuff and puzzle sort of stuff and then be done. 

[Lori D.]

^^^ Agreeing with this. Or, just drop it. You don't HAVE to even include the 0.25 credit. Just chalk it up as a bonus to the Traditional I and find an elective topic to finish out the year that will be FUN! 😄 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Lori D.

[chiguirre]

4 hours ago, cintinative said:

He's already completed Traditional Logic I, Art of Argument, Thinking Toolbox and The Fallacy Detective. 

I have ordered A concise introduction to logic and I found a lecture series on it on youtube. I think we could use that, skipping the parts he has already covered. It gets into Boolean logic in addition to the Aristolean (sp?) logic (which is all MP's product covers).

That's quite a lot of logic. I'd have him just read through the rest of TLII and call it good enough for 1 credit of Logic on his transcript.