Moral and scientific support for continued mask wearing after 2 shots and a booster

[MercyA]

Working at a funeral dinner for a dear fellow church member tomorrow. He died from COVID at 68. Expecting 150+ people at the dinner.

I will be one of the only ones if not the only one wearing a mask. No one will be openly nasty but people don't like to see masks.

It rankles that I still have to try to protect people for whom the vaccine is available and who refuse to vaccinate themselves and their children. (Obviously this does not apply to people who have health conditions which prevent them from getting the vaccine or those for whom the vaccine is less effective.) Our community is very anti-vax. About 49% have had one dose.

I think there is very, very little chance of me catching or spreading the virus. I've had two Pfizer shots and a booster and probably had COVID, too, way back at the start of it all.

It's a large gathering. There will be vulnerable people. I should just suck it up and wear a mask, right?

Sorry, just needing support tonight. I know it's dumb. And don't be gentle if you think I need a written upbraiding! Go for it! 

DON'T QUOTE, PLEASE.

Edited November 12, 2021 by MercyA

[mlktwins]

Yes, I would be wearing one without question.  But I'm past the point of caring what anyone thinks of my Covid protocols!  So over it all!

I have had both Pfizers + the booster.  I will continue masking in public indoor spaces.  My boys will be 6 months out from their 2nd Pfizer in December and they are not eligible for a booster.  We will all continue masking.

ETA:  We are about 50/50 for people wearing masks in stores, etc. around here though.  Not totally out of place with a mask.  But...I still would be wearing one - even if I was the only one.  So sorry this is extra stress for you.  It shouldn't be...

Edited November 12, 2021 by mlktwins

[MercyA]

1 minute ago, mlktwins said:

But I'm past the point of caring what anyone thinks of my Covid protocols!  So over it all!

Yeah, I should be, too.

It's just that I feel like I'll have to continue masking for years the way my community is acting--all because people have been and are being so stupid. When does it end, you know? 

[MercyA]

I know it's not a big thing to wear a mask. People just make it feel like a big thing around here.

The main thing I think I need to concentrate on is loving other people. Jesus didn't say "love other people who are doing the right thing" or "love other people who are being wise." Just love your neighbor as yourself.

[mlktwins]

2 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Yeah, I should be, too.

It's just that I feel like I'll have to continue masking for years the way my community is acting--all because people have been and are being so stupid. When does it end, you know? 

It shouldn't be this way 😞!!!

[KSera]

I’m sorry. I would do the same for a large gathering like that, particularly one where people don’t like any Covid mitigation; the chance of Covid spread in that environment is going to be higher than in a group where people are generally vaccinated and masking. I can never understand people being upset about other people masking. The fact that it’s a Covid funeral indicates it’s likely been recently circulating in this particular group, too. OTOH, in this case, I wouldn’t be thinking of you masking being for the sake of protecting the other people there. The chances of you being any risk to them is minute compared to the chances of the other unvaccinated, unmasked people there being a risk. I’d be protecting myself from breakthrough in that situation, though. 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

In your shoes I would 100% wear a mask.

🌻

[Acadie]

26 minutes ago, KSera said:

I’m sorry. I would do the same for a large gathering like that, particularly one where people don’t like any Covid mitigation; the chance of Covid spread in that environment is going to be higher than in a group where people are generally vaccinated and masking. I can never understand people being upset about other people masking. The fact that it’s a Covid funeral indicates it’s likely been recently circulating in this particular group, too. OTOH, in this case, I wouldn’t be thinking of you masking being for the sake of protecting the other people there. The chances of you being any risk to them is minute compared to the chances of the other unvaccinated, unmasked people there being a risk. I’d be protecting myself from breakthrough in that situation, though. 

I'd mask at a large gathering like that, too. Since my booster I have gone out to dinner twice. Both times we went early and were seated at a table far from anyone else (separate room, in one case). I had only done indoor dining once after my second shot, then the rise of Delta put the kibosh on that. With a booster I do feel more protected, though I am keeping an eye on cases in my area.

But with exposure to that many people in a small space my comfort level would be to mask for everyone's protection. It sucks when no one else is weighing the relative risks and trying to take care of themselves and others.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Acadie

[Syllieann]

I think your chances of transmitting covid to them with your shot background is probably lower than the chances of transmitting some other communicable disease.  Personally, I wouldn't bother.

Now that I've been recently boosted I only wear a mask for other people's psychological comfort.  If I thought it was irritating the group I'd just skip it.

[Acadie]

29 minutes ago, MercyA said:

It's just that I feel like I'll have to continue masking for years the way my community is acting--all because people have been and are being so stupid. When does it end, you know? 

I hear you on this.

I also think as we get more data on the efficacy of boosters that will help me clarify relative risk and my personal decision making, and hopefully more clear public health guidance. 

[Kassia]

32 minutes ago, MercyA said:

 

It's just that I feel like I'll have to continue masking for years the way my community is acting--all because people have been and are being so stupid. When does it end, you know? 

 

29 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I know it's not a big thing to wear a mask. People just make it feel like a big thing around here.

 

Same in my area.  In the meantime, our hospital is full (no beds available) and 25% of the regular beds are taken up by Covid patients.  ICU is almost all Covid patients.  It baffles me how stupid people are.

I'd mask but I'd feel self-conscious about it thinking others were judging me since I'd be in the minority for sure.  It's shocking when I run errands here and I'm practically the only person masked.  

[Harriet Vane]

I, too, live in an area where masking is virtually non-existent and vaccination is just above fifty percent. It IS hard. I get it! I totally understand your feelings. I wrestle with the same kinds of questions and I am so tired of not participating in activities I love or being the only masked person in the vicinity.

So let me affirm you wholeheartedly. YES, wear your mask, because viral load is a true force. There is definitely more virus circulating in a large indoor crowd, and breakthrough cases do happen. 

When your resolve falters, know that I and your other imaginary friends are here, cheering you on and applauding you for doing the hard but necessary work. You go, girl. 

[MercyA]

It's like this. As I understand it I have a less than 1% chance of catching or transmitting COVID. The mask will likely make little to no difference, considering my three vaccinations. Some people will likely see it as a political statement at a COVID funeral. Trying to weigh the pros and cons.

My husband has been a rock of righteous wisdom throughout all of this and even he told me either decision is fine. [Correction: he said he would be fine with whatever decision I make. He thinks there are pros and cons either way, but believes it would be best for me to mask up.] 

ETA: Thanks to those who have pointed out that a major concern should not be what happens at the event itself, but what could happen after if I should catch it and spread it to others. My brain is obviously tired. 😞 

Edited November 13, 2021 by MercyA

[MercyA]

Thank you, @Harriet Vane. That helps a lot. ❤️

[saraha]

10 minutes ago, MercyA said:

It's like this. As I understand it I have a less than 1% chance of catching or transmitting COVID. The mask will likely make little to no difference, considering my three vaccinations. Some people will likely see it as a political statement at a COVID funeral. Trying to weigh the pros and cons.

My husband has been a rock of righteous wisdom throughout all of this and even he told me either decision is fine. 

Honestly, if it were me I would skip serving this time. I just couldn’t do it

[PeterPan]

It makes zero sense to wear a mask to that funeral. If you don't have it, you aren't protecting them. If you have it, why are you going? So it's a political statement in a setting where people aren't wanting to talk about your politics.

Maybe the moral thing to do, if the risk of making someone else sick bothers you, is to test yourself?

 

[DreamerGirl]

You know the whole "faith over fear" thing. I am a bit tired of it. 

I occasionally wear a mask with that very thing that I bought from a Christian store.

Wear a mask @MercyA and do your thing. You are a more compassionate person than I am.

ETA: Viral loads and breakthrough COVID is why I would suggest wearing a mask. We are still not out the woods yet.

Edited November 13, 2021 by DreamerGirl

[Selkie]

I would not go. If I were somehow forced to go, I would wear a mask. Who knows how many of those 150+ people are Covid positive. Even being fully vaxxed, I would not want to be breathing the same air as them.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

11 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

It makes zero sense to wear a mask to that funeral. If you don't have it, you aren't protecting them. If you have it, why are you going? So it's a political statement in a setting where people aren't wanting to talk about your politics.

Maybe the moral thing to do, if the risk of making someone else sick bothers you, is to test yourself?

 

I don't understand how it makes zero sense to wear a mask.

Every single time anyone wears a mask, they are adding an extra layer of protection for themself, and for every person present.

 

[Ali in OR]

Well, even with 3 boosters I mask around other people. For one thing, it's required where I work and live and that sure makes it a lot easier. But I would especially wear a mask for my own protection if I were in an area with lots of people who don't believe in masks, vaccines, Covid, or looking out for one another. They put me at risk. I think I would break out one of our KN95's for that crowd. Even if my vaccines ensure I would get a mild case, even a mild case keeps me out of work for 2 weeks. And puts others at risk.

[Catwoman]

44 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

I think your chances of transmitting covid to them with your shot background is probably lower than the chances of transmitting some other communicable disease.  Personally, I wouldn't bother.

Now that I've been recently boosted I only wear a mask for other people's psychological comfort.  If I thought it was irritating the group I'd just skip it.

 

15 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

It makes zero sense to wear a mask to that funeral. If you don't have it, you aren't protecting them. If you have it, why are you going? So it's a political statement in a setting where people aren't wanting to talk about your politics.

Maybe the moral thing to do, if the risk of making someone else sick bothers you, is to test yourself?

 

Breakthrough cases are not uncommon, and not all breakthrough cases are mild -- and that seems particularly relevant here, when the viral load may be very high. This is a large event where up to 150 people will not be taking proper precautions at an indoor dinner. In my mind, NOT wearing a mask would be insane. Even if Mercy herself didn't become ill, think of all the people she could potentially expose if she became contagious after that dinner. Ugh! 

If it were me, I would make an excuse and stay home. I wouldn't want to risk that level of potential exposure (150 unmasked and quite probably also unvaccinated people in an enclosed space for an extended length of time is just way too much risk for me to even begin to consider.)

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Selkie said:

I would not go. If I were somehow forced to go, I would wear a mask. Who knows how many of those 150+ people are Covid positive. Even being fully vaxxed, I would not want to be breathing the same air as them.

I agree completely -- and if the people are anti-mask, I wouldn't doubt that many of them are also anti-vaccine. I'm sure Mercy will be there for at least a few hours, and that's a lot of potential exposure!

[MercyA]

21 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

It makes zero sense to wear a mask to that funeral. If you don't have it, you aren't protecting them. If you have it, why are you going? So it's a political statement in a setting where people aren't wanting to talk about your politics.

Maybe the moral thing to do, if the risk of making someone else sick bothers you, is to test yourself?

It's not a political statement, because I'm apolitical and my views on COVID have zero to do with politics and everything to do with science and morality. 

I could have it without knowing it, of course, and in that case I'd rather wear a mask than take a test. Easier and cheaper.

[MercyA]

My friends, you've said exactly what I needed to hear and said it clearly and kindly. I love this place so much. 

We are very short on help for the dinner and I am needed. I will wear a mask. 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, MercyA said:

It's not a political statement, because I'm apolitical and my views on COVID have zero to do with politics and everything to do with science and morality. 

I could have it without knowing it, of course, and in that case I'd rather wear a mask than take a test. Easier and cheaper.

I find it very disheartening that wearing a mask to protect your own and other people's health is judged as a political statement. And testing yourself for Covid won't protect you from contracting it from the people at the dinner and spreading it to others (possibly without even realizing it.) 

 

[MercyA]

13 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

Even if my vaccines ensure I would get a mild case, even a mild case keeps me out of work for 2 weeks. And puts others at risk.

6 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Even if Mercy herself didn't become ill, think of all the people she could potentially expose if she became contagious after that dinner. Ugh! 

Yes. You are both correct. This is the main reason I will be masking. 

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, MercyA said:

My friends, you've said exactly what I needed to hear and said it clearly and kindly. I love this place so much. 

We are very short on help for the dinner and I am needed. I will wear a mask. 

I think you're doing the right thing by wearing the mask! It's so kind and selfless of you to help with the dinner.

[ScoutTN]

12 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I think you're doing the right thing by wearing the mask! It's so kind and selfless of you to help with the dinner.

This. 
Sorry everything is so hard!

[regentrude]

Sending moral support. I continue wearing my mask whenever I am indoors with groups of people. I really don't want to be infected, and wearing a mask is an additional step to protect myself. Even a mild case could have long term consequences, or I could infect someone. 

Having a 150 person funeral *dinner* strikes me as irresponsible at this time. (I wouldn't attend.)

We are limited to 50 distanced and masked people at the chapel and will not have a reception at all after the funeral. My mother wouldn't want it on her conscience if one of her guests were to get sick.

Edited November 13, 2021 by regentrude

[KSera]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

It makes zero sense to wear a mask to that funeral. If you don't have it, you aren't protecting them. If you have it, why are you going? So it's a political statement in a setting where people aren't wanting to talk about your politics.

Maybe the moral thing to do, if the risk of making someone else sick bothers you, is to test yourself?

 

I’m so confused by the idea that protecting yourself from getting sick is a “political statement”. It has zero to do with politics. I don’t want Covid. I don’t want to be sick. It’s no more political than my liberal use of hand sanitizer in public during flu season was long before this pandemic. (And that goes for my anticipated future mask use in public during flu season, since it now appears that’s likely to be even more important than hand sanitizer. I don’t like to be sick.)

[cintinative]

45 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I think you're doing the right thing by wearing the mask! It's so kind and selfless of you to help with the dinner.

+1  

This is all so very hard. Just know you are not alone.  Many of us are making these hard choices.  You are seen by God and He knows your heart in this.

[popmom]

7 minutes ago, KSera said:

I’m so confused by the idea that protecting yourself from getting sick is a “political statement”. It has zero to do with politics. I don’t want Covid. I don’t want to be sick. It’s no more political than my liberal use of hand sanitizer in public during flu season was long before this pandemic. (And that goes for my anticipated future mask use in public during flu season, since it now appears that’s likely to be even more important than hand sanitizer. I don’t like to be sick.)

I took it to mean that it would be perceived as a political statement. We know her intent isn't to make a political statement, but I'd be willing to bet if the majority of those attending are anti vaccine, they would see it as political. It's very disheartening.

[ericathemom]

My (vaccinated) husband and (vaccinated) 12yo are often inside with other non-mask and non-vaxers. To them, the main reason for their continued masking in spite of peer pressure not to is the possibility of quarantines if they get any sort of sickness (until negative covid tests). They both are extroverts and *hate* being forced to stay home. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by ericathemom

[WildflowerMom]

150 people?  No way would I attend.   Mask or not.  Sorry.  😞

[MercyA]

32 minutes ago, regentrude said:

We are limited to 50 distanced and masked people at the chapel and will not have a reception at all after the funeral. My mother wouldn't want it on her conscience if one of her guests were to get sick.

regentrude, I am so sorry for your loss. 

[MercyA]

21 minutes ago, popmom said:

I took it to mean that it would be perceived as a political statement. We know her intent isn't to make a political statement, but I'd be willing to bet if the majority of those attending are anti vaccine, they would see it as political. It's very disheartening.

Yes. We've had many sermons addressing the need for unity in spite of "political differences." Pretty sure my pastor is talking about COVID disagreements, which have everything to do with politics for most of our attenders and nothing to do with it for me. If I were brave enough, I would wear a mask that says "Not a political statement." 😉 

Edited November 13, 2021 by MercyA

[Scarlett]

I did not read all the comments, but I just wanted to say I would not even attend such an event. Period. 
 

But if for whatever reason you feel you must then by all means mask up.  

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

It makes zero sense to wear a mask to that funeral. If you don't have it, you aren't protecting them. If you have it, why are you going? So it's a political statement in a setting where people aren't wanting to talk about your politics.

Maybe the moral thing to do, if the risk of making someone else sick bothers you, is to test yourself?

 

If THEY have it, the mask is an extra layer of protection for HER.

Yes, testing *all* guests before attending would be a sensible thing....

[Ottakee]

This is so hard.  I skipped one funeral that was a man in his 50s who died of covid.  I knew that masks would likely be seen as a political statement and I just didn't have the mental energy to go there.

Then early this morning a dear friend of 35 years lost her mother.  We attended the same church, Bible studies, etc and she babysat my kids.  Knowing my friend as well as the church climate, there will be few to no masks and likely a low vaccination rate.  Uggg.  I want to be there for my friend...she was a young widow and only child so extra hard 

I am not sure yet how I want to handle all of this as I also work at a school for young adult with special needs.  I am boostered so my risk is very low.....but....

[PeterPan]

42 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

I am not sure yet how I want to handle all of this as I also work at a school for young adult with special needs.  I am boostered so my risk is very low.....but....

I went to a funeral but they did a lot outside, which skirted the issue entirely. Maybe you could go early and visit with her before the people come? My ds receives tele services through an autism school, but I think the workers there have that same challenge of wanting to be extra careful, knowing they work with a vulnerable population. Interestingly, that school is going to have a vax clinic, so it could be that your students will to some degree become less vulnerable soon. 

I think at some point it's not good to do long term harm/hurt (which skipping a funeral for a very close person could be) because of worry about what might happen. If your state is in a lull between surges, it might be a comparatively safe time. Our numbers are going back up, but some of our adjacent states have not yet. I think there's a sense in which the risk is not static and you can assess risk. I would prioritize your friend because your students DO now have access to preventative options, which they didn't before.

Edited November 13, 2021 by PeterPan

[Ottakee]

13 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I went to a funeral but they did a lot outside, which skirted the issue entirely. Maybe you could go early and visit with her before the people come? My ds receives tele services through an autism school, but I think the workers there have that same challenge of wanting to be extra careful, knowing they work with a vulnerable population. Interestingly, that school is going to have a vax clinic, so it could be that your students will to some degree become less vulnerable soon. 

I think at some point it's not good to do long term harm/hurt (which skipping a funeral for a very close person could be) because of worry about what might happen. If your state is in a lull between surges, it might be a comparatively safe time. Our numbers are going back up, but some of our adjacent states have not yet. I think there's a sense in which the risk is not static and you can assess risk. I would prioritize your friend because your students DO now have access to preventative options, which they didn't before.

My area is at code red status for hospitalization numbers.  We have 18ish% positivity.  I can name lots of people with active COVID, including recent deaths.

I went and I wore my mask today for the funeral of our 24 year old former neighbor. we sat in the loft and I removed it for the service as we had no one near us but I did put it on for the receiving line.

Instead of a traditional meal after the funeral they had a taco truck for take it and go tacos....which totally fit this young man.